Super Saver retired... [Archive] - Thoroughbred Champions

Songofthesword

10-28-2010, 11:43 AM

damn i'm smart lol

when i'm right i'm right

we had a 10 page discussion here and i told you, i dont' know horses, but i know pletcher, and i told you verbatium, the horse would be retired, a week from breeders cup when the news cycle was heavy.

they never planned on bringing this horse back. ever. this is pletcher's mo. thing with rags to riches. he did the same thing with dunkirk. everyone is talking about Zenyatta, he slips in a super saver retired on a thursday ( i think i even said a thursday)

i guess that was a little too "off the cuff" however

Starine

10-28-2010, 11:55 AM

What an enigma this horse is.

And I can't believe Walden actually said the horse has nothing left to prove. Way to add fuel to the fire, buddy.

Somnambulist

10-28-2010, 11:59 AM

damn i'm smart lolthey never planned on bringing this horse back. ever. this is pletcher's mo. thing with rags to riches. he did the same thing with dunkirk. everyone is talking about Zenyatta, he slips in a super saver retired on a thursday ( i think i even said a thursday)

How is it Pletcher's MO? You're mentioned like, 3 horses out of the thousands of horses he's trained. If you're gonna say how it's his perogative, you might as well mention the rest of the world... people say they're aiming to bring back horses all the time and it doesn't work.

Harrison Bergeron

10-28-2010, 12:04 PM

How is it Pletcher's MO? You're mentioned like, 3 horses out of the thousands of horses he's trained. If you're gonna say how it's his perogative, you might as well mention the rest of the world... people say they're aiming to bring back horses all the time and it doesn't work.

How can you argue with the racing genius?

Surely, this indicates it's Pletcher's idea:

"The final decision to retire Super Saver was a difficult one that may not be popular with fans but should be very popular with our breeders,” said Elliott Walden, WinStar vice president and racing manager. “The bone bruising that was discovered by Dr. Larry Bramlage which limited his performance during the latter half of this year should subside with time. However, it created a risk that he would not return to the form he showed as a 2-year-old and through the Kentucky Derby.

(verbatim from http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59556/derby-winner-super-saver-retired )

Songofthesword

10-28-2010, 12:15 PM

just admit it, i wad money on this one. don't hate the playa, hate the game.

i told you 2 months before it happened verbatim what was going to happen and it happened, and if the forum would not have crashed, I would quote the post.

I' have money to make so i'm not going to stick around, just wanted to give myself an E pat on the back

Lookin At Lucky

10-28-2010, 12:32 PM

Derby Winner Super Saver Retired

Updated: Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:19 PM
Posted: Thursday, October 28, 2010 3:38 PM
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Super Saver (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/super-saver/2007?source=BHonline), winner of the 2010 Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (gr I), has been retired from racing and will stand at Kenny Troutt’s WinStar Farm near Versailles, Ky.

"The final decision to retire Super Saver was a difficult one that may not be popular with fans but should be very popular with our breeders,” said Elliott Walden, WinStar vice president and racing manager. “The bone bruising that was discovered by Dr. Larry Bramlage which limited his performance during the latter half of this year should subside with time. However, it created a risk that he would not return to the form he showed as a 2-year-old and through the Kentucky Derby. He was a top 2-year-old and became WinStar's and Todd Pletcher's first Kentucky Derby winner. We felt like he had nothing more to prove.”

Diver52

10-28-2010, 12:52 PM

I agree, he has nothing left to prove that he COULD prove. :evil: I'm sure we all agree he's better than MTB in the pantheon of Derby winners. Think they'll ask $25,000 for him?

Songofthesword

10-28-2010, 12:55 PM

I agree, he has nothing left to prove that he COULD prove. :evil: I'm sure we all agree he's better than MTB in the pantheon of Derby winners. Think they'll ask $25,000 for him?
good question but I think that's a tad high. I think 15k. which is why i think he was retired in the first place and never intended to bring him back, they couldn't risk him not returning to form. had he run 1 or 2 more races like that and you are taking after thought.

stop on him, come up with some mysterious injury that you "didn't know about" to explain his bad races (to breeders, not to us) put him up for a few months, retire him when no one is paying much attention, everyone is happy.

WaquoitNBroadBrush

10-28-2010, 12:55 PM

I agree, he has nothing left to prove that he COULD prove. :evil: I'm sure we all agree he's better than MTB in the pantheon of Derby winners. Think they'll ask $25,000 for him?

MTB at least ran a good Preakness.

islandgirl45

10-28-2010, 01:06 PM

The Tin Man

10-28-2010, 01:25 PM

Super Saver ... Winner of a grand total of ONE Grade 1 race ... Why can't we have a top quality horse win a Kentucky Derby again one of these days? Maybe next year?

We may have a new betting angle here ... If a horse wins The Kentucky Derby ... Never bet him to win again ... (Tongue in cheek of course ... But you get my drift) ...

GreenasGrass

10-28-2010, 01:31 PM

It's easy. Put Calvin Borel up on the hype horse of the week for Derby Day.

songbird1

10-28-2010, 01:39 PM

second_glance

10-28-2010, 01:48 PM

It's a shame that horses these days don't last very long; just a shame; of course i wish SS a long and healthy happy life but geez, they all seem to retire so young; Didn't Smarty retire with similar type of problem and boy, were the Chapmans reamed out and it cost Smarty horse of the year.

Smarty had bone bruises, but he was ultimately retired because of deteriorating cartilage in his ankles. That's why he was never ridden at Three Chimneys.

I Run For Fun

10-28-2010, 01:58 PM

Seems to me he still had a lot to prove. Meh.

haley296

10-28-2010, 02:13 PM

I agree, he has nothing left to prove that he COULD prove. :evil: I'm sure we all agree he's better than MTB in the pantheon of Derby winners. Think they'll ask $25,000 for him?

Agreed.....and if they ask for $25,000 it'll be highway robbery.

Additionally, I'm thinking his brother (or 1/2 brother actually) Brethren will do more than him, I was trackside and saw his debut, it was impressive.

weatherbird

10-28-2010, 02:39 PM

Hermes

10-28-2010, 02:57 PM

Agreed.....and if they ask for $25,000 it'll be highway robbery.

Additionally, I'm thinking his brother (or 1/2 brother actually) Brethren will do more than him, I was trackside and saw his debut, it was impressive.

Really? Do more than win the Kentucky Derby?

On retiring him, I thought Walden was pretty damn truthful. He didn't say he couldn't return to training, or it was worse than suspected, he said they didn't want to risk him not returning to form. A lot of young race horses have condylar bone bruising if you scan them.

I'd say 15k, too, maybe 20k. Industry needs a son of Maria's Mon to hit and he has lovely family, too. And most breeders know he was better than the fans make him out to be. It isn't like he wasn't a very nice 2 year old, he was and well regarded as a Derby horse, too. Got a late start back and hit top of cycle 3rd back for Pletcher. Moved up on track and with Borel, but he also won the top 2 yr old stake race at CD the year before and I think it was a fast track.

and PS If Pletcher thought the horse was out of form, he wouldn't have run him in the final three races. Given that he had good form til after the Derby, I think he is a nice prospect. Bluegrass Cat isn't hurting him, either.

Uh-oh Bango

10-28-2010, 03:22 PM

MTB at least ran a good Preakness.

I'm with you - MTB ran great in the Preakness. And he held on in the Belmont. I think he ran better than Super Saver did. I would like to remember that electrifying run on the rail - he was unbeatable that day.

Miss Woodford

10-28-2010, 03:40 PM

I agree, he has nothing left to prove that he COULD prove. :evil: I'm sure we all agree he's better than MTB in the pantheon of Derby winners.
I sure as hell don't. Let's compare records, only up to their 3yo season:

2008 6 4 0 0 $304,381
2009 8 1 2 2 $1,892,200
Cum 14 5 2 2 $2,228,637
2008 Champion 2yo In Canada
2008 1st Grey Breeders' Cup S. [G3] ($232,000, WO)
2008 1st Swynford S. [L] ($84,816, WO) $146,120
2008 1st Silver Deputy S. [L] ($57,222, WO) $95,751
2009 1st Kentucky Derby [G1] ($2,177,200, CD)
2009 2nd Preakness S. [G1] ($1,000,000, PIM)
2009 2nd Borderland Derby [L] ($22,000, SUN) $100,000
2009 3rd Belmont S. [G1] ($1,000,000, BEL)
2009 3rd West Virginia Derby [G2] ($750,000, MNR)

2009 4 2 1 0 $171,232
2010 6 1 1 1 $1,718,534
Cum 10 3 2 1 $1,889,766
2009 1st Kentucky Jockey Club S. [G2] ($191,250, CD)
2010 1st Kentucky Derby [G1] ($2,185,200, CD)
2010 2nd Arkansas Derby [G1] ($1,000,000, OP)
2010 3rd Tampa Bay Derby [G3] ($300,000, TAM)

MTB wins this easily. Put him with a decent trainer and a sane owner, and he's a great horse. He already proved he was a great horse in his 2yo season and his Triple Crown run, in spite of his connections. Super Saver might be a great horse, but of course now we'll never know. He never won nor placed in any race after the Derby. His greatness lasted a single race.

reverberate

10-28-2010, 05:00 PM

hermes
what did i tell you just like bluegrass cat lol

dustino140

10-28-2010, 05:28 PM

On their best days, Super Saver was a much more consistent horse than MTB. Let's not forget that he actually won in a race of substance as a juvenile, and participated in the Champagne. Plus his Derby Trail wasn't bad at all, and really I think it's one of the few times that Pletcher built a horse up to the Derby instead of trying to have him at peak for a number of stakes races through the first 4 months of the year.

Mine That Bird, unfortunately, was boring as a 2yo, I don't think he's finished the Juvenile yet, and keep in mind that the award of champion in Canada is roughly equivalent to being the champion of New Jersey most years. MTB's Derby Trail sucked, unable to win in New Mexico, and his post-Triple Crown days sucked. He lost the WV Derby, lol.

Hermes

10-28-2010, 06:45 PM

hermes
what did i tell you just like bluegrass cat lol

Not really like him at all but we have been thru that already. Unless I missed the part of the announcement that said SS had a fracture discovered right after he ran well but did not win in a stakes at Saratoga?

BGC is in SS female family and a hot first year sire, that was my reference to him.

wooley85

10-28-2010, 06:59 PM

Really? Do more than win the Kentucky Derby?

.

Ditto.
:lock1:The Kentucky Derby is the ONLY race a colt has to win...everyone who really understands the "game" understands THAT basic fact.

second_glance

10-28-2010, 07:07 PM

A nice tribute from Barbara Livingston:

http://www.drf.com/blogs/super-saver-2010-kentucky-derby-winner

Hermes

10-28-2010, 07:21 PM

A nice tribute from Barbara Livingston:

http://www.drf.com/blogs/super-saver-2010-kentucky-derby-winner

That is really nice, and says it all. "Fans" can b!tch and moan, and criticize all they want and you know what, the history books will always say he is the 2010 Kentucky Derby winner.

Songofthesword

10-28-2010, 07:38 PM

there is only one way to settle this:

Tale of the Tape

Mind That Bird

2YO record: 6 starts, 4 wins, 3 stakes wins
3YO record: 10 starts, 1 win, 1 stake win

grade 1 wins: 1
grade 1 placings: 3
highest speed figure earned: 107 (Preakness, it was a 107 or 108, I believe 107)

additional notes: 2YO Canadian horse of the year

Super Saver

2YO record: 4 starts, 2 wins, 1 stake win
3YO record: 5 starts, 1 win, 1 stake win

grade 1 wins: 1
Grade 1 placings: 2
Highest speed figure earned: 104

additional notes: set the stakes record as a 2YO at Churchill that was previously held for 46 years

imho, mtb is a better horse.

thedodge

10-28-2010, 08:22 PM

This horse has only run one good race all year the Derby in the mud. I said after the Derby he would get smoked in the Preakness and maybe retired they should have listened.:hat:

WaquoitNBroadBrush

10-28-2010, 08:57 PM

= Grindstone + a couple of more laps.

oh well, he had a great couple of weeks in Kentucky at just the right time. Trained like a winner and got a winning trip. It's too bad it went wrong so quickly...

Grindstone won two graded races at 3, so for that reason I'll always consider him better than Super Saver. That, and the fact that I picked and bet Grindstone while leaving Super Saver off my tickets entirely.

I see in his profile at PedigreeQuery.com that Grindstone is standing in Oregon these days. Ouch.

islandgirl45

10-28-2010, 09:04 PM

A nice tribute from Barbara Livingston:

http://www.drf.com/blogs/super-saver-2010-kentucky-derby-winner

I love how she captures his spirit in the article. And what a precious picture of him dozing with his head on the hay at the front of his stall!

e-man

10-28-2010, 10:08 PM

"may not be popular with fans but should be very popular with our breeders"

This. This is the money quote. The tail wags the dog again.

E-man

Secretariat Forever

10-28-2010, 10:46 PM

MTB at least ran a good Preakness.

and Belmont.

moonwalker

10-29-2010, 05:33 AM

If Mine That Bird and Super Saver had a match race, which one would have Calvin ridden?
We'll never know now.

Mary MMM

Harrison Bergeron

10-29-2010, 06:14 AM

If Mine That Bird and Super Saver had a match race, which one would have Calvin ridden?
We'll never know now.

Mary MMM

Both, at once. As much as CB likes grandstanding, it would "fit him to a T".

http://i53.tinypic.com/10wu0y8.jpg

ElPrado1

10-29-2010, 07:27 AM

naah...
Calvin's legs aren't long enough. MTB wants to trail the field.
SS wants mid pack.

wooley85

10-29-2010, 07:52 AM

"may not be popular with fans but should be very popular with our breeders"

This. This is the money quote. The tail wags the dog again.

E-man

Hardly.
Winstar is 100% correct in retiring SS...his future is as a breeder.

"Fans" contribute nothing to racing. Just read all the useless "fan" opinions on SS's racing career or lack thereof. SS won the one race that counts.

Gamblers are another story....most gamblers don't care a whit about popularity, breeding, pedigree, etc.

OldDog

10-29-2010, 10:11 AM

A nice tribute from Barbara Livingston:

http://www.drf.com/blogs/super-saver-2010-kentucky-derby-winner

That brought quite a large smile to my face.

haley296

10-29-2010, 11:40 AM

Really? Do more than win the Kentucky Derby?

On retiring him, I thought Walden was pretty damn truthful. He didn't say he couldn't return to training, or it was worse than suspected, he said they didn't want to risk him not returning to form. A lot of young race horses have condylar bone bruising if you scan them.

I'd say 15k, too, maybe 20k. Industry needs a son of Maria's Mon to hit and he has lovely family, too. And most breeders know he was better than the fans make him out to be. It isn't like he wasn't a very nice 2 year old, he was and well regarded as a Derby horse, too. Got a late start back and hit top of cycle 3rd back for Pletcher. Moved up on track and with Borel, but he also won the top 2 yr old stake race at CD the year before and I think it was a fast track.

and PS If Pletcher thought the horse was out of form, he wouldn't have run him in the final three races. Given that he had good form til after the Derby, I think he is a nice prospect. Bluegrass Cat isn't hurting him, either.

I said that sarcastically of course......I just hate the "one hit wonders" sort of speak.....you know, the Giacomo's, the MTB's and now the SS's.

I know its a part of the game.....but I dont have to like it.....you know ?

Miss Woodford

10-29-2010, 12:23 PM

I said that sarcastically of course......I just hate the "one hit wonders" sort of speak.....you know, the Giacomo's, the MTB's and now the SS's.

I know its a part of the game.....but I dont have to like it.....you know ?
Giacomo has one-upped both MTB and SS-he actually won a race, a graded stakes race, no less, after the Derby. He also beat what IMO was a far better field than the 2009 and 2010 editions of the Derby.

second_glance

10-29-2010, 12:31 PM

WinStar is having a "Welcome Home" party for Super Saver on Saturday; Todd Pletcher will be in attendance as will the KD trophy.

You can see the very striking ad here:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=449814378921&set=a.391534678921.174259.261791448921