Borel should be suspended for 6 months

[AnyGivenSaturday]

Drug test him

[CarsonCity]

Drug test himYou ever almost been dropped going over 40? Looks like Castellano took the first swing. Martin Garcia is a legend.
Hold all tickets...Prince Will I Am DQ'ed...

[Secretariat Forever]

yes he should.

That was beyond childish. His mount was affected a bit by the race incident but not NEAR as much as the other horse. Martin Garcia didn't even confront Javier like that and HE was the one who almost fell off. Javier wasn't even the one to confront Calvin, Calvin went after him.

Not only that, but Calvin wouldn't stop being ridiculous and even when Javier calmed down he kept trying to fight him. ON LIVE TV. He looked like a 16 year old HIGH SCHOOL boy trying to pick a fight after class.

[CarsonCity]

yes he should.

That was beyond childish. His mount was affected a bit by the race incident but not NEAR as much as the other horse. Martin Garcia didn't even confront Javier like that and HE was the one who almost fell off. Javier wasn't even the one to confront Calvin, Calvin went after him.

Not only that, but Calvin wouldn't stop being ridiculous and even when Javier calmed down he kept trying to fight him. He looked like a 16 year old HIGH SCHOOL boy trying to pick a fight after class.Calvins mount was affected, he went to have a word and Castellano gave him a smack...you don't tug on Supermans cape in his house.

[Songofthesword]

yeah calvin ain't the guy you go up to and think you are going to hit and get away with lol.

[Songofthesword]

I have lost every bit of respect i had for Javier. no only did he give a horrible ride, he takes a swing at a guy for trying to confront him about it.

[joeangelo]

He got suckerpunched, even though it looked otherwise

[BARNFOUR]

Drug test him

Don't take this the wromg way AGS.....you're a idiot..

[Slewbopper]

The act of an ignorant man. Calvin should be sent to jail. That is what is called assault.

[second_glance]

yes he should.

That was beyond childish. His mount was affected a bit by the race incident but not NEAR as much as the other horse. Martin Garcia didn't even confront Javier like that and HE was the one who almost fell off. Javier wasn't even the one to confront Calvin, Calvin went after him.



Not defending all that Calvin did, but look at the replays again. ESPN has an angle that shows Calvin's mount was significantly affected too. It wasn't as dramatic as Martin, but he was seriously impeded.

[Citation07]

On TV, looked like Borel threw the first punch. It would explain why he was so pissed off if Castellano was the one that went after him.

[Songofthesword]

the TV had just cut to them when borel throught eh punch, on replay javier got the first jab him.

borel never should have went tot he winners circle, but javier through the first punch. after almost dismounting 2 jocks.

[joeangelo]

He had to go to the winners circle to talk to the stewards and to weigh in after the race.

[Dave in TJMex]

yes he should.

That was beyond childish. His mount was affected a bit by the race incident but not NEAR as much as the other horse. Martin Garcia didn't even confront Javier like that and HE was the one who almost fell off. Javier wasn't even the one to confront Calvin, Calvin went after him.

Not only that, but Calvin wouldn't stop being ridiculous and even when Javier calmed down he kept trying to fight him. ON LIVE TV. He looked like a 16 year old HIGH SCHOOL boy trying to pick a fight after class.

I disagree.

Sometimes frontier justice --- in any sport --- is the way to go.

Racing authorities will suspend Castellano for 15 days, but that is not enough when jockeys could have been seriously hurt or killed. Sometimes getting in a guy's face and letting him know the next time he does something dangerous, you will punch his face in is the only effective deterrent.

Castellano is the one who should be suspended for six months, not Borel.

[Somnambulist]

The whole thing was kind of ridiculous. I've never seen anything like it (in racing). Now my inbox is being flooded with texts about it haha

[Dave in TJMex]

The act of an ignorant man. Calvin should be sent to jail. That is what is called assault.

Yeah, well then arrest Castellano for assault with a deadly weapon (a horse).

[Songofthesword]

13 races to go . now that's how you start the breeders cup off with a punch!

[Horse's Rear]

Turn the page.

There's more racing to do. They can box later.

[Insane Crazy]

Not defending all that Calvin did, but look at the replays again. ESPN has an angle that shows Calvin's mount was significantly affected too. It wasn't as dramatic as Martin, but he was seriously impeded.

Also, did anyone actually see how close Borel and certainly Garcia were to going down? Surely this has something to do with he fact that the idiotic move impaired the horses race-wise, but knowing Borel's rep as a good guy, I am positive part of this was because he was pissed that Javier did something that could have KILLED them. Seriously, I know it was a bad move by Borel, but Javier needed to crap bat out of him for what happened. Nothing to do with a win, more to do with how much danger he put multiple people in.

[Somnambulist]

I've seen a lot of bad near spills. We all have. I find it ridiculous that either took it in their own hands to fix it; what actually happened/caused it to happen remains to be unseen so I'll not comment too much.

They were both stupid. I'd slap fines/suspensions on both of them. I sincerely doubt either is faultless.

[Paladin]

Don't Mess with Calvin:lol:

[Insane Crazy]

I've seen a lot of bad near spills. We all have. I find it ridiculous that either took it in their own hands to fix it; what actually happened/caused it to happen remains to be unseen so I'll not comment too much.

They were both stupid. I'd slap fines/suspensions on both of them. I sincerely doubt either is faultless.

I mean, I totally agree. There's nothing good about doing that, especially in public like that. Vey stupid. But Borel getting ragged on for throwing the punches is unfair IMO because his reasoning I doubt was driven by greed.

However, had this happened in the jock's room like these things are sometimes settled, I'm betting there'd be a little less outcry.

[tracy]

That was disgusting to watch. So how much time and Money are they going to get for this school yard brawl. IF you are going to have an altercation at least wait until you are off camera and back in the jocks room. Both were out of Control and both are at fault. You could see that Calvin was already mad when he was talking to the stewards. If anyone had a right to complain it was the rider that almost went down. I think I just lost respect for both riders. Looks like even Calvins Wife was kind of gettting on him about his actions, she didn't look to happy with him either.

[uoflca50]

6 months? LOL maybe he'll get a week....at least he didn't confront him on horseback. I mean it was the heat of the moment, and sure it looks childish on national TV. But if this were the NFL, it's all good because they lose their tempers all the time. It's the competitive juices flowing, compounded by the fact that Castellano basically almost killed about 3 people. I kinda wish Calvin would have got in a couple of shots....lol.

[Somnambulist]

I mean, I totally agree. There's nothing good about doing that, especially in public like that. Vey stupid. But Borel getting ragged on for throwing the punches is unfair IMO because his reasoning I doubt was driven by greed.

However, had this happened in the jock's room like these things are sometimes settled, I'm betting there'd be a little less outcry.

Oh definitely. And I think we mostly agree because neither of us think this is one sided.

Either way it's probably boosting our ratings... lol. Sad.

[crazyhorse]

I'm certainly not a Borel fan, but while you all are being so hard on him, take into account that when this happened, Garcia almost came off. From the rear angle of the incident it looked as though Borel pulled his horse a little closer and stayed there till Garcia steadied himself. Coming off in that pack would have been pretty bad for Garcia.

[Still on the Farm]

At least the Breeders' Cup now has a chance at getting some coverage on the nightly network news. Geez, take the promotional opportunity and RUN WITH IT!!!!

[luvsgeldings]

oh and borel never takes a chance with horses or other riders when he wedges into those small holes at the rail? i am sure he has jostled more than a few when he pulls that move. some would see those moves he makes at the rail as pretty dangerous - i know they scare the crap out of me lots of times.

[CarsonCity]

Geesh all the whining about how bad it looked...read Arcaros book "I Ride To Win" ... all about whip smacking, grabbing saddle towels, leg locks...this was nothing...

[Miss Woodford]

oh and borel never takes a chance with horses or other riders when he wedges into those small holes at the rail? i am sure he has jostled more than a few when he pulls that move. some would see those moves he makes at the rail as pretty dangerous - i know they scare the crap out of me lots of times.
It looked like Castellano did it on purpose-maybe not intending to hurt someone, but definitely trying to impede. Borel isn't reckless enough to get into incidents like that, at least not where he knows he'll get DQd.

[Songofthesword]

that is true luvsgeldings. i saw a jockey i'm quite sure, literary try to take borel out when he tried to squeeze through the rail at oaklawn earlier this year. even made a post about it. i dont' think he's as loved by jockies as he is by fans.

[Insane Crazy]

Oh definitely. And I think we mostly agree because neither of us think this is one sided.

Either way it's probably boosting our ratings... lol. Sad.

Haha, so true. My non-racing friend looked up from her laptop when it happened. Score? Lol.

[Allspice]

I've seen a lot of bad near spills. We all have. I find it ridiculous that either took it in their own hands to fix it; what actually happened/caused it to happen remains to be unseen so I'll not comment too much.

They were both stupid. I'd slap fines/suspensions on both of them. I sincerely doubt either is faultless.

Agreed.

[GreenasGrass]

What happened? I just got in.

[Spahny]

Two jockies in brawl. Somebody call Howard Stern.

[Songofthesword]

cliffs:

javier gave a crappy dangerous ride, got 2nd place

calvin went to confront him after the race in the winner circle

javier throw a punch

calving tried to knock his block off in the winners circle

[GreenasGrass]

Dang. I miss all the good stuff.

[tracy]

Well that didn't take long, Blood horse arleady reporting the incident and saying now that Calvin also almost came out of the sadddle as well. Sounds like the stewards are going to watch the marthon again and intreview both jockeys tomorrow and pushiments will be handed out later and will not effect rider for the rest of the weekend.

[Harrison Bergeron]

That display by both jockeys was disgraceful. What is this world coming to?


These punks need to have restraint and personal responsibility like they did
20-30-50-75 years ago!






















http://i54.tinypic.com/214t3xu.jpg

[Hermes]

You ever almost been dropped going over 40? Looks like Castellano took the first swing. Martin Garcia is a legend.
Hold all tickets...Prince Will I Am DQ'ed...

Seriously. Can we suspend stupidity at TBC for the day at least? No. Never mind.

[PJMIII]

At least suspend him for the rest of this meet (won't happen). What an embarrassment for the sport.

[Songofthesword]

oh and borel never takes a chance with horses or other riders when he wedges into those small holes at the rail? i am sure he has jostled more than a few when he pulls that move. some would see those moves he makes at the rail as pretty dangerous - i know they scare the crap out of me lots of times.


did you just see that fail on the thing they are doing about calvin borel? that's what i was talking about. that was deliberate imho. terry Thompson pinned him into the rail.

[Maddie Rose]

Dang. I miss all the good stuff.

Don't worry-they've replayed it a dozen times already.

[Songofthesword]

LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLEEEEEEEEEEE!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvaA84KtUsI

[tracy]

sounds like they went at it again when they got back to the jocks room thats why they kicked out the media.

[Maggie]

sounds like they went at it again when they got back to the jocks room thats why they kicked out the media.

He needs to cool off. Later he will realize that he over reacted.

[Kurenai]

Why crying to suspend Calvin? Javier did a reckless thing, Martin and Calvin got lucky they came out of this race without being injured (Martin much more so than Calvin, looked like Calvin stayed beside him til he was steadied again). Calvin went up and confronted him (probably asking him if he was nuts) and Javier punched Calvin.

Of course it's unprofessional, but man, I would have gone nuts too if that guy had the nerve to hit me, after calling him out on his stupidity.

Both should be suspended. If Calvin gets 1 week, Javier should get 2 imo.

[Horse's Rear]

LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLEEEEEEEEEEE!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvaA84KtUsI


That's IT!!!!

Midget Pig Wrestling between races!!! What a great idea.

[Dave in TJMex]

That's IT!!!!

Midget Pig Wrestling between races!!! What a great idea.

Actually, midget wrestlers are coming to San Diego for a series of bouts on November 26th.

I already have it on my calendar! :hat:

[Paladin]

LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLEEEEEEEEEEE!


:lol:

[Ty88]

I thought it was a fun start to the day. Love those Cajun jocks, they speak their minds, have no fear, and when they get mad they get MAD.

[Secretariat Forever]

Not defending all that Calvin did, but look at the replays again. ESPN has an angle that shows Calvin's mount was significantly affected too. It wasn't as dramatic as Martin, but he was seriously impeded.

Compared to Martin's mount his mount was not nearly "affected". But like I said, his mount was affected a little. But compared to the other, it was nothing.

[CarsonCity]

Seriously. Can we suspend stupidity at TBC for the day at least? No. Never mind.What was stupid about that? Calvin caught some hell over Castellanos stupidity, and after the kid gave him a smack, something was bound to happen. Grow up.

[Rainyday]

I think it was unprofessional and fisticuffs shouldn't be encouraged...but...I can't see the fight itself as a big deal. Of course, I'm Canadian, and it just looked like your average hockey game to me.

[Prairie Bayou]

They will both probably get something... however Javier was way out of line both in the race and out of it. That could have been really, really bad. You know maybe now more people will tune in. Violence always seems to draw a crowd.

[Hermes]

What was stupid about that? Calvin caught some hell over Castellanos stupidity, and after the kid gave him a smack, something was bound to happen. Grow up.

That was what I was agreeing with, CC;)

[BARNFOUR]

That display by both jockeys was disgraceful. What is this world coming to?


These punks need to have restraint and personal responsibility like they did
20-30-50-75 years ago!






















http://i54.tinypic.com/214t3xu.jpg

You're the best HB!!!!

[second_glance]

Compared to Martin's mount his mount was not nearly "affected". But like I said, his mount was affected a little. But compared to the other, it was nothing.

And I'm saying that Calvin's mount was affected more than a little, which is quite clear from some of the angles. Moreover, CB got a very clear view of what almost happened to Martin.

So we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Hermes]

Compared to Martin's mount his mount was not nearly "affected". But like I said, his mount was affected a little. But compared to the other, it was nothing.

I don't think you saw the overhead replay clearly. Wasn't that Calvin to the outside of Martin who was halfway off his horse? Did you see how close they BOTH came to going down?I am not sure that some here get how close that was to a horrific accident. I don't blame Calvin. How bout you get out there at 40 MPH with horses and riders with in inches and half way to the ground, and then get back to us on how it's working for you?

[CarsonCity]

That was what I was agreeing with, CC;)Oops, sorry...:doh:

[Ty88]

My favorite part was how it took three or so burly security guards, all twice as big as Calvin, to pull him off that other jock. I plan on telling that to several people who still think jockeys aren't rock-hard athletes.

[Songofthesword]

rotfl


I'M TELLING YOU MOTHER$$$$$$$$


PRICELESS

really javier had no choice but to hit him. you can't back down when someone punks you down like that.

[terpsichorist]

They will both probably get something... however Javier was way out of line both in the race and out of it. That could have been really, really bad. You know maybe now more people will tune in. Violence always seems to draw a crowd.

This piece will probably get more sports news air time for BC day one than they could ever
dream of,

[chinookcantlogineither]

rotfl


I'M TELLING YOU MOTHER$$$$$$$$


PRICELESS

really javier had no choice but to hit him. you can't back down when someone punks you down like that.

Calvin should have just walked up to him and jacked him. You put your finger in someone's face like that and you'd better be ready to start chewing on a knuckle sandwich.

I thought some of those "haymakers" Calvin was throwing after that might have even been able to break through a paper bag. Just hysterical.

This is probably the best thing to happen to the BC in at least a decade...

[Harrison Bergeron]

Rafael Bejarano doesn't have a mount in the Dirt Mile now that Crown of Thorns is out.

I wonder if Sadler is considering making a phone call.....................

[Songofthesword]

Rafael Bejarano doesn't have a mount in the Dirt Mile now that Crown of Thorns is out.

I wonder if Sadler is considering making a phone call.....................
they said that sadler was not happy about it on tell a kelly and he couldn't' even if he wanted to which i got the impression he did want to.

[skipaway]

interesting that they're not following Javier around, to ask him, are you mentally ok to ride?

[Starine]

What an embarrassment.

Castellano was riding recklessly and almost caused a horse to go down as well as bothering Borel's horse. His mount very clearly deserved to be disqualified.

That being said, it was still a terrible decision on Borel's part to go after Castellano.

I do play roller derby and know how frustrating it can be when you are fouled by other players, especially when the refs miss it completely. I'd be lying if I said I never got hot about it, but you can't just go around throwing punches (especially right in front of a nationally-televised audience!).

[Raksha]

Borel didn't through the first punch...

[Songofthesword]

put yiour finger 1 centimeter from someone's face and screaming "i'm telling you mother$#$$$$$" = first punch.

[Somnambulist]

put yiour finger 1 centimeter from someone's face and screaming "i'm telling you mother$#$$$$$" = first punch.

Definitely not...

[Songofthesword]

there is not one person here who doesn't swing in that situtation. i don't want to hear it.

you don't do that and expect to not get hit.

[jenn52318]

I honestly believe he went over there to tell Javier how dangerous that was. If Calvin did not throw the first punch then that really explains why he was so angry. I am sure he was already angry because it was such a dangerous move, from what Martin said if Calvin had moved his horse over quickly Martin would have been off, he said he pushed off of the horse next to him to stay on. I don't think he went over there mad because it cost him the race, he was mad because it was so dangerous, Javier didn't even look over his shoulder to make sure no one was there. Yes it should have been taken care of in the jocks room not out in public on tv, but you don't always think clearly when you are mad, especially when you are upset about safety.

[Noble]

Damn! I streamed the Marathon, but didn't exactly see the fight until right now on ESPN site.

Wow! Welcome back to Churchill, Javier. What a way to start the Breeders' Cup 2010. This is the type of fight that can leave bad blood between these two for many years. Mr. Kentucky Derby making headlines to kick off the BC in his homecourt. I really don't know what to think. Cal seems like such a nice guy when I saw him in person and never seen him like this before. Just look at the anger in his face. Scary. Looks like he wants to kill JC. I never would have thought this would happen coming from Cal. Mr. Rachel Alexandra vs Mr. Ghostzapper. The oddest thing I have ever seen on a BC day. Had my jaw dropped like the Malice in The Palace back in 2004.

[mege23]

I honestly believe he went over there to tell Javier how dangerous that was. If Calvin did not throw the first punch then that really explains why he was so angry. I am sure he was already angry because it was such a dangerous move, from what Martin said if Calvin had moved his horse over quickly Martin would have been off, he said he pushed off of the horse next to him to stay on. I don't think he went over there mad because it cost him the race, he was mad because it was so dangerous, Javier didn't even look over his shoulder to make sure no one was there. Yes it should have been taken care of in the jocks room not out in public on tv, but you don't always think clearly when you are mad, especially when you are upset about safety.

Calvin went looking for more than to point out that it was a dangerous move (as if he has any room to make such comments)--that kind of remark doesn't involve screaming and pushing or threatening someone with death. And no it should not have happened in the Jocks room or on live TV. It was inappropriate in any venue.

DRF posted this which clarifies Castellano's side:

http://www.drf.com/news/borel-and-castellano-fight-winners-circle-after-breeders-cup-marathon

[arkle]

Definitely not...

Oh yeah it is. Definitely is.

[TapitsGal]

wow.they are both lucky a horse didnt go down.I don't blame calvin for being mad,but throwing punches is not the way to solve it

[CarsonCity]

wow.they are both lucky a horse didnt go down.I don't blame calvin for being mad,but throwing punches is not the way to solve itAGAIN, from what I saw he didn't throw first, and when someone pulls a boneheaded move with potentially fatal consequences, a good smack is in order.

[Secretariat Forever]

Borel didn't through the first punch...


He instigated the WHOLE situation. I can't tell who threw the first punch it looked like Calvin did, but there are too many people surrounding them. Either way, it is very clear that Calvin is the one who came looking for Javier, and went up to Javier yelling and swearing at him. You instigate...then it's your fault if someone comes back at you.

Either way, Javier rode like an A$$. Yes, no doubt about it. BUT Calvin instigated the whole fight afterward. He went looking for one, and he got what he wanted. ON live tv though...he should be embarrassed. Very unprofessional for a jockey, this is not boxing or MMA, where it's professional to hit someone. This may cost him a mount tomorrow or mounts in the future... no one wants a jockey who's going to focus on punching other riders. Even his own wife looked furious with him.




Javier is so darn cute though. :(

[second_glance]

Borel has apologized -- to his fans. Javier says he still doesn't know what happened, but somebody said he took another horse's lane (um, yeah).

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/breederscup2010/news/story?id=5769389

[Insane Crazy]

For those who were live streaming and want to give into their curiosity, however perverse it may be ;-) :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZHjiPtbivA

Javier definitely threw the first punch - it whacks Calvin's helmet off. Obviously Calvin was sort of asking for it, but at the same time, I would want to beat the $#!& out of a guy too after that totally reckless move he made that put everyone in the back of the pack in danger, horses AND jocks.

The sheer rage on Calvin's face astounds me. I didn't know he had it in him. Like he said in the follow-up with Jerry, he's used to rough and tumble riding and behavior from way back when, but man. That's intense.

[Allspice]

AGAIN, from what I saw he didn't throw first, and when someone pulls a boneheaded move with potentially fatal consequences, a good smack is in order.

I actually can't quite tell who threw the first punch. Looks like Castellano did, but...

Meh...both are at fault and both deserve to be punished for this. Castellano for being reckless during the race and Borel for instigating the fight after the race.


The sheer rage on Calvin's face astounds me. I didn't know he had it in him. Like he said in the follow-up with Jerry, he's used to rough and tumble riding and behavior from way back when, but man. That's intense.

That surprised me too. He looked like he literally wanted to kill him. :shocked:

[Secretariat Forever]

Just shows you what a professional Martin Garcia is.


Haven't heard any reaction from him, knocking someone out or not. SH** happens, Javier rode recklessly and should be punished for it. Calvin started a fight and should be punished for that. But the guy who actually almost went down and was affected the most by Javier's riding just kept to himself. I give him credit. I probably would have been mad like Calvin too, especially if I were Martin. But I would not have started a fight on live tv, or at all. There's more to lose than gain when doing that. Like..suspension, mounts, etc.

[GreenasGrass]

Just heard about the races from a non racing family friend, the first thing out of his mouth was a question about the fight. Sad.

[Ingrid]

I gotta say, the fight itself aside, the moment when Calvin's face was contorted with rage, and he's just SEETHING, the look on his face was just primal and actually creeped me out a bit. But granted, I've never witnessed, say, a bar brawl or anything. That guy legitimately looked like he wanted to rip Javier's head off and eat it.

[Kurenai]

The way I saw it (switched to ESPN), Calvin was pissed that Javier made such a reckless move. Went up to him and yelled at him, then J. threw the first punch at him, knocking Calvins helmet off, or at least pushing him back with both hands.

Honestly... let's say I walk over the road when there is green light for me. A car driver nearly runs me over cause he ignored the red light and I just make it out of it, cause I jumped away. Car driver stops, I walk up to him and yell at him. And that guy throws a punch at me... I would go apeshit too.

It shouldn't have happened, it was a big mistake, but I can totally understand why Calvin was in such a rage. I never saw anything like that from him before either.

[Insane Crazy]

Honestly... let's say I walk over the road when there is green light for me. A car driver nearly runs me over cause he ignored the red light and I just make it out of it, cause I jumped away. Car driver stops, I walk up to him and yell at him. And that guy throws a punch at me... I would go apeshit too.

Good analogy. I think Calvin was looking for a fight here, but because he was already seething - the hit just set him off. Like I said, this stuff should stick to the jock's room or not at all. Sounds like it's over now. They're big boys and will hopefully just drop it, though I agree with someone who said this is the sort of thing that would give you a grudge for years.

Is it an Eddie Arcaro story or a Shoemaker one where they asked why someone rode rough, and they responded to the press something like, "The mother $%@#er tried to knock me off!"

[Kurenai]

I just can remember one story where the jockey said "I was trying to kill that son of a ****" when being asked by the Stewards. I can't remember WHO that was though. Gah. Maybe someone else knows. lol

[Songofthesword]

Corey Notajockey

[second_glance]

Good analogy. I think Calvin was looking for a fight here, but because he was already seething - the hit just set him off. Like I said, this stuff should stick to the jock's room or not at all. Sounds like it's over now. They're big boys and will hopefully just drop it, though I agree with someone who said this is the sort of thing that would give you a grudge for years.

Is it an Eddie Arcaro story or a Shoemaker one where they asked why someone rode rough, and they responded to the press something like, "The mother $%@#er tried to knock me off!"

Shoemaker got a year in NY for trying to put another jockey over the rail. When asked by the head steward what he thought he was doing, he famously replied, "I was trying to kill the SOB."

[Insane Crazy]

Shoemaker got a year in NY for trying to put another jockey over the rail. When asked by the head steward what he thought he was doing, he famously replied, "I was trying to kill the SOB."

Yes! That's what I was thinking of. Well-remembered, everyone, considering how badly I botched that story. =P

[Kurenai]

Aaaah thanks Second Glance!

[Secretariat Forever]

http://www.drf.com/news/borel-and-castellano-fight-winners-circle-after-breeders-cup-marathon

305


Calvin's helmet is still on. Meaning Javier has NOT hit him yet. But it's CLEAR Calvin put his hands on Javier first.


You come looking for me, and then grip me up, I'll be sure to defend myself too.

[Songofthesword]

wow that's a good pic. I smell an eclipse award. Javier looks like he needs to change his diaper.

[Allspice]

^^ Yikes at the picture. Even before punches were thrown Borel looks like he wants to tear him apart.

[CarsonCity]

http://www.drf.com/news/borel-and-castellano-fight-winners-circle-after-breeders-cup-marathon

305


Calvin's helmet is still on. Meaning Javier has NOT hit him yet. But it's CLEAR Calvin put his hands on Javier first.


You come looking for me, and then grip me up, I'll be sure to defend myself too.
Yea, well Castellano deserved it.

[Secretariat Forever]

Yea, well Castellano deserved it.


Yea, if it were High School.



Leave it up to the stewards to decide his punishment. Don't take matters into your own hands when you are only going to get yourself into trouble. Now he's probably going to get suspended too. His fault.

[terpsichorist]

Yea, well Castellano deserved it.

Yes he did ,and I think now Calvin should have some fattening food delivered to Javier.
Maybe for a week.
Harmless payback

[Bandinifan06]

wow that's a good pic. I smell an eclipse award. Javier looks like he needs to change his diaper.

Good picture indeed! But uh...I hope it wouldn't be an eclipse...I'd rather see something positive in the awards this year! Not this kinda stuff...

[moonwalker]

I just can remember one story where the jockey said "I was trying to kill that son of a ****" when being asked by the Stewards. I can't remember WHO that was though. Gah. Maybe someone else knows. lol

That was Eddie Arcaro.

Mary MMM

[FastG45]

They are right next to each other tomorrow in the 2nd. They are both in the 5th and they are right next to each other in the 9th

[CarsonCity]

Yea, if it were High School.



Leave it up to the stewards to decide his punishment. Don't take matters into your own hands when you are only going to get yourself into trouble. Now he's probably going to get suspended too. His fault.High school rarely has a life or death consequences...now go pick up your Legos and
hurry off to bed.

[Allspice]

High school rarely has a life or death consequences...now go pick up your Legos and
hurry off to bed.

Not a good insult. Adults play with Legos just as much a kids do. XD

And maybe Castellano deserved to get yelled at, but that doesn't mean Borel should have. Now he'll probably be suspended along with Castellano. And he'd deserve it.

[EquineAnne]

I disagree.

Sometimes frontier justice --- in any sport --- is the way to go.

Racing authorities will suspend Castellano for 15 days, but that is not enough when jockeys could have been seriously hurt or killed. Sometimes getting in a guy's face and letting him know the next time he does something dangerous, you will punch his face in is the only effective deterrent.

Castellano is the one who should be suspended for six months, not Borel.

I agree. WTH was HC thinking? So many people could have been hurt/killed. I'll tell you what I think is horrible, ESPN. They repeatedly went over it again and again. Buckwheat all over again!

[Native Diver]

I think it was unprofessional and fisticuffs shouldn't be encouraged...but...I can't see the fight itself as a big deal. Of course, I'm Canadian, and it just looked like your average hockey game to me.

Thank You! I'm not condoning it either and it was unprofessional but give me a break! Hockey, NFL, MLB, you see that it does happen from time to time. You get alot of high stakes pressure and testosterone going, and sometimes you WILL see fireworks. Life is real and it's not rehearsed, and mind boggling as it is, fisticuffs happen.

There's this song lyric that keep running through my head about "Have you ever seen a Cajun when he really gets mad? When he's really got trouble like a wife gone bad?" I have Cajun family and there's no better human beings on the face of the earth, but Lord God, don't be a fool and seriously piss them off.

Calvin should have gotten a grip on himself alot sooner, I'll certainly say that. And Javier shouldn't have endangered jockeys and horses with a stupid move. It will be telling to see what type of consequence they each will be dealing with from this episode.

[Starine]

I disagree.

Sometimes frontier justice --- in any sport --- is the way to go.

Racing authorities will suspend Castellano for 15 days, but that is not enough when jockeys could have been seriously hurt or killed. Sometimes getting in a guy's face and letting him know the next time he does something dangerous, you will punch his face in is the only effective deterrent.

Castellano is the one who should be suspended for six months, not Borel.

There is no place in our society for vigilante justice.

[Secretariat Forever]

High school rarely has a life or death consequences...now go pick up your Legos and
hurry off to bed.

Who the H*L* are you?


HAHAHA


Many High Schools have quite a few life or death consequences ;) You don't watch much outside of the racing world do you?


Anyways, Javier rode like an Ahole and Borel acted like an angry child on live tv. Stooping to violent behaviour is immature. No matter what the reason is for you stooping to that level. It's horse racing, it's dangerous, and riders who make bad decisions during a race (as well as those making matters worse after the race.) will get their punishment by probably being suspended.

[CarsonCity]

I think Calvin was in part standing up for Garcia, and was heatedly pointing out to Castellano where he thought he went wrong. Calvins mount was affected too...not nearly as much as Garcias, but still, a bonehad move is enough to chap anyone who may have their life on the line. Castellano struck first...was Calvin wrong? Probably, but eminently understandable.

[Secretariat Forever]

Not a good insult. Adults play with Legos just as much a kids do. XD

And maybe Castellano deserved to get yelled at, but that doesn't mean Borel should have. Now he'll probably be suspended along with Castellano. And he'd deserve it.


This is exactly my point. They were BOTH in the wrong for their actions. Javier during the race and Calvin after. But apparently you have to pick a side in order to not be a lego player. :evil:

[CarsonCity]

Who the H*L* are you?


HAHAHA


Many High Schools have quite a few life or death consequences ;) You don't watch much outside of the racing world do you?


Anyways, Javier rode like an Ahole and Borel acted like an angry child on live tv. Stooping to violent behaviour is immature. No matter what the reason is for you stooping to that level. It's horse racing, it's dangerous, and riders who make bad decisions during a race (as well as those making matters worse after the race.) will get their punishment by probably being suspended.I actually do this for a living...you?

[Allspice]

This is exactly my point. They were BOTH in the wrong for their actions. Javier during the race and Calvin after. But apparently you have to pick a side in order to not be a lego player. :evil:

lol So it seems. :lol:

[Starine]

I think Calvin was in part standing up for Garcia, and was heatedly pointing out to Castellano where he thought he went wrong. Calvins mount was affected too...not nearly as much as Garcias, but still, a bonehad move is enough to chap anyone who may have their life on the line. Castellano struck first...was Calvin wrong? Probably, but eminently understandable.

I'm sure Garcia doesn't need Borel to fight his battles for him (no pun intended). Don't try to make it out to be some sort of charitable gesture.

[Hermes]

Calvin went looking for more than to point out that it was a dangerous move (as if he has any room to make such comments)--that kind of remark doesn't involve screaming and pushing or threatening someone with death. And no it should not have happened in the Jocks room or on live TV. It was inappropriate in any venue.

DRF posted this which clarifies Castellano's side:

http://www.drf.com/news/borel-and-castellano-fight-winners-circle-after-breeders-cup-marathon

Yeah, Grening really spitshined Javier's halo for him there;)

[Secretariat Forever]

I think Calvin was in part standing up for Garcia, and was heatedly pointing out to Castellano where he thought he went wrong. Calvins mount was affected too...not nearly as much as Garcias, but still, a bonehad move is enough to chap anyone who may have their life on the line. Castellano struck first...was Calvin wrong? Probably, but eminently understandable.

This is where people are wrong. Javier might have thrown the first punch but Calvin (photo proof a few posts away) gripped Javier up first. You grip someone up like that, you are asking for them to hit you in their defense. Why? Because it's just that...defending yourself. When someone grips you up, right away your first thought is they are going to hit me.

[Secretariat Forever]

I actually do this for a living...you?

You would have been better off not saying that. Now you should just be ashamed. You do exactly what for a living anyway (I'm assuming something to do with HR?)?

[Hermes]

I'm sure Garcia doesn't need Borel to fight his battles for him (no pun intended). Don't try to make it out to be some sort of charitable gesture.

Um yeah, when a fellow jock almost goes down among hooves, you almost go down, too, and your horse provides leverage for Garcia to push himself back up in his saddle, yeah, you could be a tad pissed off. The comments here making judgements of Borel are more than inane. Yes he was wrong to lose it at the BC. Oh, and yes, he is human. Castellano, one of my favorite jocks, was a punk today.

[Songofthesword]

We are sitting here talking about what we would do, 5 hours after the event happened. Calvin didn't' have that luxury. he was livid. We have all done things we regret when we are that hot. We are humans.

[CarsonCity]

I'm sure Garcia doesn't need Borel to fight his battles for him (no pun intended). Don't try to make it out to be some sort of charitable gesture.Didn't mean to...Borel had reason enough to be chapped.

[Starine]

I actually do this for a living...you?

Right. And so anyone who doesn't couldn't possibly have a valid point or thought worth taking seriously.

[Hermes]

Shoemaker got a year in NY for trying to put another jockey over the rail. When asked by the head steward what he thought he was doing, he famously replied, "I was trying to kill the SOB."


Not in a million years would Shoe say that. And that was Arcaro.

[terpsichorist]

We are sitting here talking about what we would do, 5 hours after the event happened. Calvin didn't' have that luxury. he was livid. We have all done things we regret when we are that hot. We are humans.

So True , and Song you beat me to it with that Avatar.

[Secretariat Forever]

Guess I'll join in on this side of things.


Calvin went looking for a fight... and he found it...he got slammed right in the face!

[Starine]

Um yeah, when a fellow jock almost goes down among hooves, you almost go down, too, and your horse provides leverage for Garcia to push himself back up in his saddle, yeah, you could be a tad pissed off. The comments here making judgements of Borel are more than inane. Yes he was wrong to lose it at the BC. Oh, and yes, he is human. Castellano, one of my favorite jocks, was a punk today.

What are you pointing the finger at me for? I wrote that Garcia doesn't need Borel to fight his battles for him, which was what CarsonCity was implying.

[susan]

Not in a million years would Shoe say that. And that was Arcaro.

That is correct--and the SOB he was trying to kill was Vincent Nodarse ..

[Hermes]

You would have been better off not saying that. Now you should just be ashamed. You do exactly what for a living anyway (I'm assuming something to do with HR?)?

CC has handled more good horses in a day than you have ragged on here at TBC in a year.

[Songofthesword]

I actually do this for a living...you?
While I"m not SE's biggest fan this is way past uncalled for. She voiced her opinion, it should not be chastised becuase she doesn't earn a paycheck doing "this for a living". Her opinion is just as valid as everyone else's.

Fans, sometimes, are going to have opinions that dont' jive with what you think or the turth sometimes. That's no reason to chastise. In stead educate. Show them why they are wrong. Dont' throw the "i do this for a living" or "do you know who I am " card out.

I don't even agree with her, I just don't like the way she's being treated becuase she is voicing how the feels. If you dont' like her opinion or think it's stupid, explain to her in detail why it's stupid, don't throw the i do this for a living card out. Fans should be able to voice their honest opinion without being burned to the stake.

That's how we get in a position where, you have a 3 legged horse running in the breeders cup, becuase everyone is too afraid to say something. that needs to change.

[Hermes]

What are you pointing the finger at me for? I wrote that Garcia doesn't need Borel to fight his battles for him, which was what CarsonCity was implying.

I am explaining to the dense that he wasn't fighting anyone's "battle" for him. He might have been fighting the battle for any jock that wants to walk back to the jock's room, though.

[Secretariat Forever]

CC has handled more good horses in a day than you have ragged on here at TBC in a year.


Handling horses and judging who's wrong or right in a fight are two VERY different things. ;)

[Starine]

I am explaining to the dense that he wasn't fighting anyone's "battle" for him. He might have been fighting the battle for any jock that wants to walk back to the jock's room, though.

And by dense you mean Carson City? Because he/she was the only one to make that claim.

[Minersmarq]

Handling horses and judging who's wrong or right in a fight are two VERY different things. ;)

Just drop it, tuck your tail, and let it be. It'll be simpler, and you'll look smarter in the long run.:deadhorse:

[Secretariat Forever]

I am explaining to the dense that he wasn't fighting anyone's "battle" for him. He might have been fighting the battle for any jock that wants to walk back to the jock's room, though.

Hermes, I must say. Intelligence wise, you aren't a complete idiot.

But why does everyone always have to be below you or your "friends"? It seems if someone disagrees with you or a fellow friend...they are a bad name of sorts. Like "dense".

[second_glance]

Not in a million years would Shoe say that. And that was Arcaro.

Not the way I heard the story, but I'm sure not going to argue with you!
<g>

[CarsonCity]

Handling horses and judging who's wrong or right in a fight are two VERY different things. ;)
I agree..but honestly, can you not see where CB is majorly PO'ed? Every day is life or death for these guys and ladies, so a bonehead move that nearly puts two down...how Garcia stayed up is a miracle... is worthy of discussion. From what I saw, CB went over to have a very terse word with JC... I still haven't seen the initial "grip up" whatever that means... I just saw a sucker punch and a seething CB. Does Garcia need CB to stand up for him? No. I think CB did have that in mind though. Looked to me like JC threw the first one...regardless, they will both get a long suspension, but I do give CB some latitude personally in this...just me.

[Secretariat Forever]

And by dense you mean Carson City? Because he/she was the only one to make that claim.

CC and Hermes are very close I presume. Both seem to have the same rude name calling attitude. Agree with them 100% or deal with their nasty side.

[Starine]

Not the way I heard the story, but I'm sure not going to argue with you!
<g>

From Notable Biographies.com:


Eddie Arcaro and Ben Jones teamed up several times to make Calumet Farm horses stakes winners, and the jockey was courted by other owners and trainers during these peak years of his career. In 1942 his career almost came to an end after trouble at the Aqueduct track in Queens, New York. He and a rival jockey, Vincent Nodarse, had several deliberate and near-deadly encounters during a race, and Arcaro finally managed to knock Nodarse off his horse. When questioned by race officials, he freely admitted, "I was trying to kill the S.O.B.," according to People .

[second_glance]

From Notable Biographies.com:



Oh, I was serious when I said I wasn't going to argue with Hermes on this one. I got it wrong/heard it wrong somewhere. Sorry.

[Hermes]

And by dense you mean Carson City? Because he/she was the only one to make that claim.

No I meant you. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

[Secretariat Forever]

I agree..but honestly, can you not see where CB is majorly PO'ed? Every day is life ordeath for these guys and ladies, so a bonehead move that nearly puts two dow...how Garcia stayed up is a miracle... is worthy of discussion. From what I saw, CB went over to have a very tese word with JC... I still haven't seen the initial "grip up" whatever that means... I just saw a sucker punch and a seething CB. Does Garcia need CB to stand up for him? No. I think CBdid have that in mind though. Looked to me like JC threw the first one...regardless, they will both get a long suspension, but I do give CB some latitude personally in this...just me.

You started with me over this?


How many times have I said "Javier rode like an AHOLE"? But Calvin acted like one after the race. Good reason or not, he should have been more mature about it. He probably just put himself into a suspension situation.


I'm not choosing sides. They were BOTH in the wrong at certain points. That's all I am saying. The finger should not be pointed only one way.

[Starine]

No I meant you. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

Back to the name-calling and bullying, I see. As usual you're all class Hermes.

Anyway, how am I the dense one when your good friend Carson City was the one who claimed Borel was "standing up" for Garcia?

[Hermes]

Oh, I was serious when I said I wasn't going to argue with Hermes on this one. I got it wrong/heard it wrong somewhere. Sorry.

That's ok. I love you S_G. Just annoyed with the ragging on CB by others for his meltdown. Obviously he had a bad day, he apologized already on live TV, and so he is human, even if he looked scary.

[Hermes]

Back to the name-calling and bullying, I see. As usual you're all class Hermes.

Anyway, how am I the dense one when your good friend Carson City was the one who claimed Borel was "standing up" for Garcia?

I am not sure how you managed it. Impressive:) Follow along though, jocks stick together and want to keep it safe out there. When your adrenaline is running that high after almost being dropped and knowing the rider next to you (Garcia) was damn lucky to not go down, and stayed up because you just happened to have your horse next to him, and the jock that caused the problem can't just say, "I'm sorry, I didn't see you, I didn't mean to come out..." yeah, I'd drop him at the scales, too. The only thing Calvin did wrong was not wait til the jocks' room. But yeah, human temper isn't a scheduled commercial break.

Thee guys will both get 10 days and fines IMO.

[Secretariat Forever]

Back to the name-calling and bullying, I see. As usual you're all class Hermes.

Anyway, how am I the dense one when your good friend Carson City was the one who claimed Borel was "standing up" for Garcia?


Would you expect anything else from her?

I've actually been really shying away from the arguments here. It gets tiring when this is suppose to be an enjoyable place. But having someone who instantly resorts to calling many people on here nasty rude names..makes it less enjoyable.

Guess I got caught up in this one though. I'm out. Not dealing with it. :censored:


Too Hermes, in order to have any knowledge about HR and have any respect from her or at the very least not get name called by her..you have to A. make a living by the sport and B. be old.

[Hermes]

Would you expect anything else from her?

I've actually been really shying away from the arguments here. It gets tiring when this is suppose to be an enjoyable place. But having someone who instantly resorts to calling many people on here nasty rude names..makes it less enjoyable.

Guess I got caught up in this one though. I'm out. Not dealing with it. :censored:


Too Hermes, in order to have any knowledge about HR and have any respect from her or at the very least not get name called by her..you have to A. make a living by the sport and B. be old.

Age 12 and above leave you out of that equation. But still too young to legally earn a living, too;)

[CarsonCity]

Back to the name-calling and bullying, I see. As usual you're all class Hermes.

Anyway, how am I the dense one when your good friend Carson City was the one who claimed Borel was "standing up" for Garcia?Maybe I was wrong if I said standing up,, maybe not, but I would bet CB pointed out that going to spots that cut off horses and potentially drop riders in a foolhardy manner is not a way to ride for long. JC made a mistake that was potentially tragic... he should have been spoken to by an old pro. This is usually something that happens back in the Jock's Room, not out front...but it is amazing when you think these men and women share a locker room.

[second_glance]

That's ok. I love you S_G. Just annoyed with the ragging on CB by others for his meltdown. Obviously he had a bad day, he apologized already on live TV, and so he is human, even if he looked scary.

REALLY scary. The part of me that wasn't afraid OF him was afraid FOR him. He's had issues with high blood pressure in the past, and, man, he'd have blown the cuff off in those fraught moments.

[Starine]

I am not sure how you managed it. Impressive. Follow along though, jocks stick together and want to keep it safe out there. When your adrenaline is running that high after almost being dropped and knowing the rider next to you (Garcia) was damn lucky to not go down, and stayed up because you just happened to have your horse next to him, and the jock that caused the problem can't just say, "I'm sorry, I didn't see you, I didn't mean to come out..." yeah, I'd drop him. The only thing Calvin did wrong was not wait til the jocks' room. But yeah, human temper isn't a scheduled commercial break.

Really? I'm not the one trying to evade the point.

Carson City wrote that Borel went after Castellano because he was "standing up for Garcia." I wrote that that wasn't the case; you even agreed with me in replaying that he 'wasn't fighting anyone's battle for him.' Yet I'm the dense one?

Oh, and I'm sorry that you are so insecure and have such a poor self-image that you take it out on other people by name-calling and spitting barbs and unnecessary vitriol. You really should talk to a professional about your feelings of inadequacy.

[second_glance]

Pretty sure Calvin didn't write this, but it appeared on his FB page:

Would like to apologize to all those who witnessed the altercation that took place between myself and Javier Castellano after this evenings Breeders Cup Marathon-it was a situation that deserved to be resolved, however- said resolution should have taken place within the privacy of the jockeys quarters. Thank you all for your support and understanding.

[Songofthesword]

translation - He had it comin. just not in public. For that I apologize.


I haven't been paying attention, is someone actually trying to make the argument that borel was sticking up for garcia? my god lol come on

[second_glance]

translation - He had it comin. just not in public. For that I apologize.


I haven't been paying attention, is someone actually trying to make the argument that borel was sticking up for garcia? my god lol come on

Not so much for Garcia per se, but for every rider put in danger by a careless move. Yeah, I think that was part of it.

[Bandinifan06]

Not like my opinion matters in all this drama.

But I think Javier was very wreckless. Although a few thoughts have come through my mind. First, I've only seen the replay 2x and the video stunk.
Trying to recall it, but I know in a very brief interview I read that Javier saw a tight spot and took it and passed tired horses. Is it possible he just misjudged how much room he had with the horses that were coming up behind him on the right? And just a really bad judgement call. OR.. I wonder if he did it deliberately just so he could try to get his horse out of there.
Not intentionally wanting to cause all this drama vs. doesn't care.

With that said, for what I did see, I do think I would be very very angry too. Look at what happened to Rene Douglas not long ago...that could easily have happened again.
I could see someone wanting to get their word in, and make it clear that the ride was totally unacceptable. BUT, Calvin was in the wrong for grabbing Javier the way he did. That concerns me, and the way he was steamed up afterwards concerns me. H*ll, I'll be honest, that side of Calvin scared the h*ll out of me! It was as if he was possessed!

I hope those guys are sleeping with heavy minds tonight on the stupid things they did. Kudos to Martin for keeping the peace, even after he nearly went down.

[Songofthesword]

Not so much for Garcia per se, but for every rider put in danger by a careless move. Yeah, I think that was part of it.
I think that is alot of redboarding of the event. I don't think personally he was considering all that when he went off on him. Too bang bang of an instance. I think he was just pissed that he damn near made him fall off his mount and snapped.

When people snap like that, it's usually not all that well thought out. Snapping like that is a very emotional thing, and you/everyone who is suggesting he was defending everyone trying to suggest that he took made an extremely emotional response to something that that would have been thought out/somewhat rational.

He snapped because he was pissed the you know what off. It's that simple.

[Kurenai]

Not so much for Garcia, CC was just pointing out that Calvin went over and probably yelled something like "are you out of your mind you <insert a couple of beeps over swear words here>".

Taken into context: think about the car analogy again. If you see someone driving reckless, nearly causing an accident where someone could have died... I would call that reckless driver every single name under the sun.

When you ride in a group with horses you kinda have to rely on the others to not make such moves. Accidents happen, but that was just reckless. I can still remember a trainer slapping a young rider in the face yelling "what were you thinking" cause he did something alike that was reckless, back when I worked at the track. You have to look out there for each other, if ya don't then it gets very dangerous. You can use every trick you want to, cut horses off that want to make a run and get away with it, etc. Just never endanger someone willingly. For example: What Gogo did was fine in the turf race. That was excellent riding. But what Javier did... he deserved some yelling for that.

Not saying it was good that Calvin did that. And even worse he did it in front of cameras. But I can totally understand why he reacted like that.

[CarsonCity]

translation - He had it comin. just not in public. For that I apologize.


I haven't been paying attention, is someone actually trying to make the argument that borel was sticking up for garcia? my god lol come on
Not making an argument, but yes, I said in part he was sticking up for Garcia in a way that Borel was trying to point out that bonehead moves affect every rider, and have potentially fatal consequences. It wouldnt be the first time where a rider gave some tersely worded advice for the good of the jockey room in general. Usually it would come from the top rider in the room like a Borel, or a Bailey or a Shoemaker etc. A stupid move has a chance to injure all riders in a race...why does the concept seem so impossible?

[Songofthesword]

Not making an argument, but yes, I said in part he was sticking up for Garcia in a way that Borel was trying to point out that bonehead moves affect every rider, and have potentially fatal consequences. It wouldnt be the first time where a rider gave some tersely worded advice for the good of the jockey room in general. Usually it would come from the top rider in the room like a Borel, or a Bailey or a Shoemaker etc. A stupid move has a chance to injure all riders in a race...why does the concept seem so impossible?


the thing is, i think everyone is actually on the exacdt same page, but wording it very differently.

A byproduct of him snapping like that, would be him sticking up for his peers and he damn well will think twice about it again, for instance, this is like, attacking the pitchers mount when you get beamed..

you know what, that is exactly what it's like

you get hit, you don't attack the mound because you are protecting your peers, you do it becuase you freaking got beamed and you are pissed. But a byproduct of that is, the pitcher is going to think twice before he goes for your head trying to get you to back off the plate.

[Starine]

Not making an argument, but yes, I said in part he was sticking up for Garcia in a way that Borel was trying to point out that bonehead moves affect every rider, and have potentially fatal consequences. It wouldnt be the first time where a rider gave some tersely worded advice for the good of the jockey room in general. Usually it would come from the top rider in the room like a Borel, or a Bailey or a Shoemaker etc. A stupid move has a chance to injure all riders in a race...why does the concept seem so impossible?

The concept of a stupid move endangering other riders and horses is not an 'impossible' concept. Everyone is aware of the dangers of this sport, especially after a high-profile incident like the spill that paralyzed Rene Douglas.

But the idea that Borel went after Castellano because he was sticking up for Garcia is absurd.

[Horse's Rear]

If Borel should be suspended for six months, how many days should this thread get?

It was probably not the best moment in the sport, but the race and the wrestling match together didn't last as long as the TBC temper tantrum that followed. In the great scheme of things, this was one instance of very poor judgment during the race that--thankfully--only affected the outcome, followed by another instance of somewhat poor judgment in not waiting until the cameras were gone before having the necessary fight. Fortunately, no one was hurt (except for whatever caused that wrap on Calvin's punching hand), and life goes on to far more important things tomorrow.

We have all seen worse, and we will again. The good news is that nothing bad (or even noteworthy) happened, even though a lot more could have. I will be disappointed if Castellano does not get seriously more time on the sidelines than Calvin--the damage he could have done was far worse and it is a much more serious infraction.

[second_glance]

I think that is alot of redboarding of the event. I don't think personally he was considering all that when he went off on him. Too bang bang of an instance. I think he was just pissed that he damn near made him fall off his mount and snapped.

When people snap like that, it's usually not all that well thought out. Snapping like that is a very emotional thing, and you/everyone who is suggesting he was defending everyone trying to suggest that he took made an extremely emotional response to something that that would have been thought out/somewhat rational.

He snapped because he was pissed the you know what off. It's that simple.

Calvin's been riding how long? Seen how many bad accidents caused by bad riding? At this point in his career it doesn't have to be well-thought-out -- it's nearly instinctive: That SOB nearly killed one of us. Sure he's PO'd on his own behalf -- moreover, his horse had just started a good move. But he was also in the best position to see what almost happened to Martin. In fact, had he not been alongside Romp and Garcia, things could have been a lot worse for Romp and Martin and quite possibly others coming up behind. It wasn't intentional, but Borel and A.U. Miner steadied them a bit. At least that's what I saw.

[Songofthesword]

If Borel should be suspended for six months, how many days should this thread get?

It was probably not the best moment in the sport, but the race and the wrestling match together didn't last as long as the TBC temper tantrum that followed. In the great scheme of things, this was one instance of very poor judgment during the race that--thankfully--only affected the outcome, followed by another instance of somewhat poor judgment in not waiting until the cameras were gone before having the necessary fight. Fortunately, no one was hurt (except for whatever caused that wrap on Calvin's punching hand), and life goes on to far more important things tomorrow.

We have all seen worse, and we will again. The good news is that nothing bad (or even noteworthy) happened, even though a lot more could have. I will be disappointed if Castellano does not get seriously more time on the sidelines than Calvin--the damage he could have done was far worse and it is a much more serious infraction.lol

[CarsonCity]

The concept of a stupid move endangering other riders and horses is not an 'impossible' concept. Everyone is aware of the dangers of this sport, especially after a high-profile incident like the spill that paralyzed Rene Douglas.

But the idea that Borel went after Castellano because he was sticking up for Garcia is absurd.
Perhaps I said it wrong initially, but yes, I think CB was speaking for the safety of the room as he was for his individual safety.. I never said he was sticking up for him, though I do bElieve, as I said, "in part", safety for all riders was an issue.

[Starine]

Perhaps I said it wrong initially, but yes, I think CB was speaking for the safety of the room as he was for his individual safety.. I never said he was sticking up for him, though I do bElieve, as I said, "in part", safety for all riders was an issue.

You did write that Borel was "standing up for Garcia," did you not?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but I find that to be an extremely questionable statement.

[Horsebagger]

No defense for Javi's ride (looked to me like he assumed he was clear when he had to take the 2 path to set his mount down for the drive, instead of confirming first). He deserves days, and a lot of them. But neither do I fault him for teeing off on Borel once he unexpectedly physically confronted him and shoved a finger in his face. Is he supposed to wait until the aggressor hits him first? Defending yourself isn't being a punk.

But that level of rage from Borel isn't coming if it's about being the representative in defense of the entire jockey colony. Looked personal to me. Wouldn't be surprised if there was some incident in a race with JC long since forgotten by anyone who might have noticed at the time, that was still in Calvin's memory bank when he saw it was JC who caused this incident.

Just an opinion. No evidence to back it up.

[CarsonCity]

You did write that Borel was "standing up for Garcia," did you not?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but I find that to be an extremely questionable statement.
Look it up...I said "in part"... don't you ever stick up for some of your roller derby team? Did I just ask that? Yes, those guys compete, but they are friends many times and don't want to see another friend dropped by a dumb a$$ move...even if they aren't friends, they respect each other for what they do, and understand the danger, and don't wanna see a guy dropped by a dumb a$$ move. Yes, I stand by what I said... not so much now, but some time ago I used to run around with some of the lower level guys...I know where they stand.

[Secretariat Forever]

No defense for Javi's ride (looked to me like he assumed he was clear when he had to take the 2 path to set his mount down for the drive, instead of confirming first). He deserves days, and a lot of them. But neither do I fault him for teeing off on Borel once he unexpectedly physically confronted him and shoved a finger in his face. Is he supposed to wait until the aggressor hits him first? Defending yourself isn't being a punk.

But that level of rage from Borel isn't coming if it's about being the representative in defense of the entire jockey colony. Looked personal to me. Wouldn't be surprised if there was some incident in a race with JC long since forgotten by anyone who might have noticed at the time, that was still in Calvin's memory bank when he saw it was JC who caused this incident.

Just an opinion. No evidence to back it up.


It did. The anger in Calvin's face looked like Javier had tortured one of Borel's family members and he just found out about it.

[Vertigo]

I was at the track and what I saw was Calvin running up to Javier, grabbing him while yelling and screaming profanities. Javier threw the first punch, but it was self defense. Calvin was going crazy, I didn't know he could get that mad.

[Hermes]

You did write that Borel was "standing up for Garcia," did you not?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but I find that to be an extremely questionable statement.

Not questionable at all, much less extremely. But continue to parse. We all need to be good at something.

[Starine]

Not questionable at all, much less extremely. But continue to parse. We all need to be good at something.

I know I am good at a number of things. On top of that I am well-adjusted, do not display antisocial tendencies and am respectful to people even when I disagree with them.

Wish I could say the same about everyone here, but you know, we all can't be good at those things.

[Hermes]

I know I am good at a number of things. On top of that I am well-adjusted, do not display antisocial tendencies and am respectful to people even when I disagree with them.

Wish I could say the same about everyone here, but you know, we all can't be good at those things.

Yeah, I am working on the same maniacal glare that Calvin fixed on Javier, but dammit, I can't quite get it. Maybe after you make another inane comment later today, I'll be there.:evil:

[terpsichorist]

Deadly mix in some sports of Adrenaline and Testosterone.
I rember Jockey Emigh at Arlington Park I believe put another Jock in the ER .

It's like they just SNAPPED.

[Hermes]

Deadly mix in spme sports of Adrenaline and Testosterone.
I rember Jockey Emigh at Arlington Park I believe put another Jock in the ER .

It's like they just SNAPPED.

Well they starve, they have an ambulance follow them while they do their job, and they partner with pea brained animals while traveling 40 MPH in a pack. Yeah, a real pinhead move in that environment like what JC did today might put me on edge.

[Starine]

Yeah, I am working on the same maniacal glare that Calvin fixed on Javier, but dammit, I can't quite get it.

It's certainly not the only thing you aren't getting.

[wesley30]

Borel should be suspended. You CANNOT under any circumstance react the way he did publically. It is a terrible reflection to this sport. You cannot threaten to kill someone in public regardless of the situation. He should not have been allowed to mount another horse for the rest of the day after that display. There is not one sport that would have tolerated such an outbust and still let the athlete continue, except maybe pro wrestling. and that's not much of a true sport.

[Hermes]

Borel should be suspended. You CANNOT under any circumstance react the way he did publically. It is a terrible reflection to this sport. You cannot threaten to kill someone in public regardless of the situation. He should not have been allowed to mount another horse for the rest of the day after that display. There is not one sport that would have tolerated such an outbust and still let the athlete continue, except maybe pro wrestling. and that's not much of a true sport.

But be sure to let Castellano ride to maim the rest of the day?
Right. Neither one of them meant what they did or said today.
I am sure Borel is going to get a heavy fine and suspension and I bet he takes it. I think I'd give them both 10 days and fine Borel 10k and Castellano 1k.

I do wonder if anyone will be allowed to take CB off on Sat.?

[wesley30]

This isn't about how Castellano rode. He'll get his fine/suspension. This is only about Calvin's reaction. Borel was the instigator and the aggressor no matter who threw the first punch or rode recklessly. It was an embarrasment to horse racing. This isn't a movie or the wild west. He cannot act like a raving lunatic having to be held back by a couple people or else he'll tear him to shreds.

[Songofthesword]

This isn't about how Castellano rode. He'll get his fine/suspension. This is only about Calvin's reaction. Borel was the instigator and the aggressor no matter who threw the first punch or rode recklessly. It was an embarrasment to horse racing. This isn't a movie or the wild west. He cannot act like a raving lunatic having to be held back by a couple people or else he'll tear him to shreds.

And I assure you they will milk "the fight" for all it's worth on espn to get more ratings.

[Hermes]

And I assure you they will milk "the fight" for all it's worth on espn to get more ratings.

Bingo. ESPN ATE this up. It was over the top, gratuitous, and disgusting.
And Wesley, is that plexiglass in your see thru house? It doesn't MATTER who rode recklessly? really? So you'd rather have seen a colossal gory accident with injured or dead jocks and horses on the track instead of seeing CB tee off on the jock that made an egregious error that he couldn't even admit after the DQ, and after the "fight"? Yeah, ok.

[doriemus]

To prove how much media attention this is now getting abroad, it was one of the top stories on the news here tonight in Australia.

It also was shown throughout the coverage of the Cup carnival today on mainstream tv. Several of the reporters making an absolute joke of it, with one retired jockey making some comments I dare not repeat.

All jokes aside, what happened today was an absolute disgrace. Both parties are as guilty as one another. The way Javier rode was terrible, something that an experienced rider should have known better. The consequences of his actions could have been dire if there had of been a fall. Thankfully there was no fall, and everyone returned in one piece.

Then the punch up. Borel honestly had the look of the devil on his face when the camera shot snapped him at the precise moment as the punch up happened. It was like he honestly wanted to kill Javier there and then.

I hope both men are fined, suspended and charged for their actions, and are made to publicly apologise. If this occurred in any other industry, you'd get charged for assault, have a criminal record, lose your job and reputation.

A jockey here in Australia copped 6 months for a similar offence, 2 years ago. He has not been sighted since.

[moonwalker]

Couldn't see the fight from where I was sitting (on the rail, just before the finish line), but when Calvin rode by in the post parade of a later race, a man just behind me yelled, "Hey Calvin, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!"

Mary MMM

[seahawkgal]

Borel should be suspended. You CANNOT under any circumstance react the way he did publically. It is a terrible reflection to this sport. You cannot threaten to kill someone in public regardless of the situation. He should not have been allowed to mount another horse for the rest of the day after that display. There is not one sport that would have tolerated such an outbust and still let the athlete continue, except maybe pro wrestling. and that's not much of a true sport.

I take it you have never watched NFL, NHL, etc. Ok.

[Jumron]

Hmmm... I noticed that Castellano and Calvin are going to be coming out of the starting gate next to each other in Saturday's second race, the Dream Supreme, as they are on the #10 and #11 horses in that race. I sure hope that they've cooled down overnight enough to not continue their bad feelings on the track in that race.

[moonwalker]

Well they starve, they have an ambulance follow them while they do their job, and they partner with pea brained animals while traveling 40 MPH in a pack. Yeah, a real pinhead move in that environment like what JC did today might put me on edge.

ESPN film showing the move on the turn which eventually triggered the fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWxCwZL40ZA

I think Calvin was incensed because what Javier did could have literally cost Martin Garcia his life and caused an even bigger chain reaction. Martin was almost knocked off his horse and would have been trampled by the field.

Calvin's an old veteran rider and practically owns Churchill Downs. I'm guessing that for Calvin, for this young boy to come in from New York and nearly kill another jockey through a bonehead move, this was beyond the pale and that boy needed swift and dire correction that he would remember.

Calvin's normally a very sweet tempered man, but he's got a sense of justice. The riders have to trust each other to be able to ride inches apart at 40 m.p.h. They have to be aware that what they are doing could get someone else killed. Calvin was stepping up as the Churchill Downs riding colony leader and letting Javier know that what he did was not going to be tolerated on his watch. Period.

I think these kinds of confrontations go on all the time in the jockeys' room, "backstage" as it were. Rationally, Calvin should have waited until he and Javier got into the room to make his opinion known, but from the look on his face, I think he was beyond rational decision making. He was in the zone where a mama grizzly defends her young, and I think he was standing up not just for himself, but for the safety of all the riders.

Calvin and Javier may both get days, but Javier gets a lesson that will help keep the other riders safer. I'm sorry that it got blown up as some "Calvin is a thug" sensational news piece. Calvin's far from a thug, and the unusualness of his behavior underscores how severe the consequences of Javier's actions could have been. It was a moment that should have been kept within the brotherhood of the jocks' room, true, but it was a moment that in some fashion, had to happen.

And no, a politically correct letter of complaint from Calvin to Javier was not going to do it.

Mary MMM

[Kurenai]

If you screwed up like Javier did and an old timer comes up to you and grabs you and yells at your face you actually should at least mumble "I'm sorry, it was stupid, will not happen again". Instead he threw a punch. And that was what set Calvin really off in the end.

I agree with Moonwalker. For anyone who never rode a race horse, just think about the car analogy I posted earlier.

I also don't get why ESPN was so damn obnoxious about it, following Calvin around etc. Stuff like that happens all the time in other sports, over much less of an incident, this one could have gone really, really ugly.

[PJMIII]

I agree..but honestly, can you not see where CB is majorly PO'ed? Every day is life or death for these guys and ladies, so a bonehead move that nearly puts two down...how Garcia stayed up is a miracle... is worthy of discussion. From what I saw, CB went over to have a very terse word with JC... I still haven't seen the initial "grip up" whatever that means... I just saw a sucker punch and a seething CB. Does Garcia need CB to stand up for him? No. I think CB did have that in mind though. Looked to me like JC threw the first one...regardless, they will both get a long suspension, but I do give CB some latitude personally in this...just me.
If you're going to fight, or in Calvin's case, verbally assault someone, take it to the jockeys room. This sport gets bashed enough. It certainly didn't need this. Calvin should be ashamed of himself.

[Roc525]

ESPN film showing the move on the turn which eventually triggered the fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWxCwZL40ZA

I think Calvin was incensed because what Javier did could have literally cost Martin Garcia his life and caused an even bigger chain reaction. Martin was almost knocked off his horse and would have been trampled by the field.

Calvin's an old veteran rider and practically owns Churchill Downs. I'm guessing that for Calvin, for this young boy to come in from New York and nearly kill another jockey through a bonehead move, this was beyond the pale and that boy needed swift and dire correction that he would remember.

Calvin's normally a very sweet tempered man, but he's got a sense of justice. The riders have to trust each other to be able to ride inches apart at 40 m.p.h. They have to be aware that what they are doing could get someone else killed. Calvin was stepping up as the Churchill Downs riding colony leader and letting Javier know that what he did was not going to be tolerated on his watch. Period.

I think these kinds of confrontations go on all the time in the jockeys' room, "backstage" as it were. Rationally, Calvin should have waited until he and Javier got into the room to make his opinion known, but from the look on his face, I think he was beyond rational decision making. He was in the zone where a mama grizzly defends her young, and I think he was standing up not just for himself, but for the safety of all the riders.

Calvin and Javier may both get days, but Javier gets a lesson that will help keep the other riders safer. I'm sorry that it got blown up as some "Calvin is a thug" sensational news piece. Calvin's far from a thug, and the unusualness of his behavior underscores how severe the consequences of Javier's actions could have been. It was a moment that should have been kept within the brotherhood of the jocks' room, true, but it was a moment that in some fashion, had to happen.

And no, a politically correct letter of complaint from Calvin to Javier was not going to do it.

Mary MMM

I completely agree with all of your points.

[GinTalking]

I can't read 10 pages ... but I have seen the tapes of the race ... and I'm curious, why should Borel be suspended? He didn't cause the incident. By all accounts, he didn't throw the first punch. So other than getting in Castellano's face, what did he do that was so wrong other than retaliate.

Looked to me like Garcia won the Athlete of the Day award just being able to stay on his horse.

[PJMIII]

I can't read 10 pages ... but I have seen the tapes of the race ... and I'm curious, why should Borel be suspended? He didn't cause the incident. By all accounts, he didn't throw the first punch. So other than getting in Castellano's face, what did he do that was so wrong other than retaliate.

Looked to me like Garcia won the Athlete of the Day award just being able to stay on his horse.
In my mind Gin, he provoked it. My point is that he should have taken it to the jock's room.

[wesley30]

First of all, anyone that questioned whether or not I have any toughness has never competed against me because had Calvin come at me the way he did I guantee he would havd been taken away on a stretcher. period. i don't care what the consequenes would have been to me. Anyone of you women questioning my toughtness should know that I am confident that I could kick his little butt all over town I don't care how big the horses he rides are. I am 100% a gym rat and I know how people act in sports better than all you prettty pony girls. So do not make this out to be about me because that is not an argument that any of you will win.

Second, Calvin Borel is not the one that determines punishment for what other jockeys do during the race. There is what management for that. Calvin is not the judge and jury. If another jockey rides recklessly then management is the one to deal with it. Javier is not some bug boy. He made a terrible move that could have killed another jockey I am not denying that but Calvin cannot do what he did in public. He acted foolish and made the sport look foolish. He should have done what he did in the jockey's room not run up to Javier in the winner's circle and start a public fight.

Third, even in football or hockey or hockey he would have been suspended for his behovior. If anyone of you ladies actually played in any of those sports like i did you would know that. Do you think that if a linebacker took a cheap shot that almost kills the quarterback and the quarterback's running back comes to his teammates defense by getting in a crazy fight that he'd still be in the game? Anyone that thinks that doesn't know what the heck you're talking about.

The only explanation i have is that all you ladies must be a fan of Calvin's and you're probably just star struck. I have not defended what Castellano did in the least. What I have said was that Calvin's behavior is unacceptable. Defend Calvin all you want but he was 100% in the wrong for his behavior in public.

[Rick1323]

This is simple. Javier's infraction was dangerous, but racing has a process to handle it. Granted it will take time, but he will get days.

What Calvin did is also part of the process. He just picked the wrong time and place for it. Had he waited to get back in the jock's room it wouldn't have been the big deal it has become. He will be delt with severely....and he should be. He gave himself and the sport a black eye.

[Native Diver]

Javier reacted no better than Calvin. Calvin should have waited and confronted him in the jock's room, but Javier made a careless move that could have killed someone (and there's no way Javier didn't know that, he knew what he did). Even when Calvin went to him angrily in the winner's circle, even IF Calvin put his hands on him first, it STILL doesn't make Javier throwing a punch back the right thing to do.

[seahawkgal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jan_RxKuQBs&feature=related
No ejections, just penalties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80LUYKt7iV4&feature=related
No ejections and I don't even think there was a penalty here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1JKgOJpohU&feature=related
NO ejections and only one penalty.
There is more. Much more. Shall I go on? :evil:

[Starine]

I can't read 10 pages ... but I have seen the tapes of the race ... and I'm curious, why should Borel be suspended? He didn't cause the incident. By all accounts, he didn't throw the first punch. So other than getting in Castellano's face, what did he do that was so wrong other than retaliate.

For the record, Gin, Borel did more than get in Castellano's face. He grabbed Castellano by the collar, so he was the first one to get physical.

[Spahny]

Both jocks are getting vacations.

I don't think it deserves this much attention but the sport has enough PR issues. They didn't need this.

Borel should have waited to get back to the jocks room. Always respect tradition.

[Intelligent Male]

Oh please (this talk about bad PR).

The 'almost' fight (wasn't really a fight) is the ONLY thing that made yesterday interesting for the general public.

That and maybe seeing Bobby Flay's hot wife (Law and Order actress Stephanie March) in the winners circle.

[Blue Jeans]

They are right next to each other tomorrow in the 2nd. They are both in the 5th and they are right next to each other in the 9th

From DRF: Entrants for Nov. 6th ... copied a day or two ago.

http://www1.drf.com/static/entries/06/eCD06.html?rn=245852


Added: Race 2 ... horse #11 scratched .... rider was JJ Castellano. No changes noted for the other two races ... 5 and 9.

>11 Magnificent Mia Castellano J J<

http://www1.drf.com/static/changes/06/cCD06.html

[jenn52318]

I don't think it actually creates a black eye, I think outside people actually found it interesting, and not in a bad way. I think ESPN did a bad job covering it though, instead of talking about how Calvin must be mad because it interfered with him, I immediately thought he was mad because it was a stupid move and a dangerous one. ESPN didn't once talk about that nor really talk about that Javier was taken down not just because he interfered (ie kept those horses from possibly beating him) but because it was dangerous and dangerous riding gets taken down. As a way to keep people and horses safe. I think that would have made the fight a lot less dramatic in the press, because the way they presented it on tv made Calvin look like an idiot, because his horse was interfered with very little. I think if people on tv had made a point that it was a dangerous move and that could be why Calvin was so upset (as I would be as well) it would have been different.

[eyeforglory]

Definitely not...


Oh, yes it does.

[Paladin]

Well, They are making a movie about Mine That Bird and Calvin is being considered for a part. Maybe he was just showing of his acting talent. :lol:

[Paladin]

Castellano suspended, Borel fined:


http://www.drf.com/news/castellano-suspended-borel-fined-incidents-churchill

[Horse's Rear]

Seems right.

[Kurenai]

Fair decision!

[Forego]

For the record, Gin, Borel did more than get in Castellano's face. He grabbed Castellano by the collar, so he was the first one to get physical.

Yes, he was - after going after Castellano and getting in his face to start the whole thing. Javier did not go into a mindless rage and fight everyone around him to get at Calvin - he backed off, which was the sensible thing to do. Calvin looked crazed - worse than any hockey fight. So while Javier committed the riding infraction, Calvin showed that some anger management might be in order. To do all that - and fight security etc. with the wild expression to get back at Castellano - IMO made him look a bit psychotic - and yes, like a bit of a thug.

[islandgirl45]

Martin Garcia was a better man than both of them.

[auburndee1]

On a reasonable par with the sentenses in the Santa Anita Derby fight: :evil:

But seriously, great job by Martin Garcia to stay up, stay with his horse and stay out of the fight. I'm really liking this kid.

[Hermes]

SIX months?

And taken off their mounts for the rest of the BC races even if an owner or trainer didn't want to change jocks? Really?

And now Calvin is a "wife beater"? Wow. Just. Wow.

[auburndee1]

The shock for me was who was involved in the fight. Both of these guys are clean riders and neither has racked up trouble off the track. I don't have a problem with calling them first-time-offenders and letting the stewards handle it.

[Slewbopper]

I don't care who threw the first punch. Borel's antics should be punished severely. An exchange of fists in the heat of the moment is one thing, but what Calvin did after the melee was broken up was embarrassing to horse racing.

How should this be dealt with? IMO, both jocks should receive substantial fines and major suspensions. Borel should be made an example of, and dealt with much more severely than Castellano.

[PJMIII]

I don't care who threw the first punch. Borel's antics should be punished severely. An exchange of fists in the heat of the moment is one thing, but what Calvin did after the melee was broken up was embarrassing to horse racing.

How should this be dealt with? IMO, both jocks should receive substantial fines and major suspensions. Borel should be made an example of, and dealt with much more severely than Castellano.
I agree with you 100%. IMHO Borel was an embarrassment to the sport.

[Vertigo]

I can't believe Javier got he suspension. What he was doing really just seemed like self defense. Look how loud and crazy Calvin was in his face, words alone weren't going to get him off. It took a lot fo people to just pull Calvin away.

[Slewbopper]

I don't care who threw the first punch. Borel's antics should be punished severely. An exchange of fists in the heat of the moment is one thing, but what Calvin did after the melee was broken up was embarrassing to horse racing.

How should this be dealt with? IMO, both jocks should receive substantial fines and major suspensions. Borel should be made an example of, and dealt with much more severely than Castellano.

PS...the fines should go to the Don MacBeth Memorial Jockey Fund.

[PanZareta]

I can't believe Javier got he suspension. What he was doing really just seemed like self defense. Look how loud and crazy Calvin was in his face, words alone weren't going to get him off. It took a lot fo people to just pull Calvin away.

Javier's suspension was for rough riding, not the fight.

[Native Diver]

What to me will be more interesting than whatever punishment the stewards dealt these two will be how this will affect their careers. Will they get the same mounts? Or will it be business as usual? Or will this be a turning point of some sort for each of them?

Calvin's reaction was so over the top that it made me wonder the history between him and Javier, if there was more to it than just the boneheaded move J made on the track.

[Harrison Bergeron]

I just hope that Calvin's rage was an isolated incident. It wouldn't be pretty if he lost it on the track the way he did on Friday.

The photos and videos resemble a madman totally out of control.

[Rick1323]

I would imagine Calvin has that same look on his face when he threads trafffic and comes up the rail. No wonder they give him room.

[gravano]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/08/sports/08jockey.html?ref=sports

[Slewbopper]

"The Kentucky Board of Stewards fined Borel $5,000 and Castellano $2,500 for their fight after the Breeders’ Cup Marathon."

Calvin has earned 10% of $6.8 million in purses ($680,000) this year through yesterdayas well as whatever he gets for each mount that doesn't earn a check. $5000? Please. There should be another zero on the fine. What he did on racing's biggest stage was the most outrageous explosion I have ever seen in the sport. His punishment? 2 days pay.

[wooley85]

I agree with you 100%. IMHO Borel was an embarrassment to the sport.

The NY papers had that shot of Borel the "maniac" on the FRONT pages of the dailies.

Borel looked like a "serial killer". The rage was so evident on his face.

Not a good way to promote horse racing.

[eyeforglory]

I wonder what would of been the punishment if this happened somewhere else, because CB seems to be idolized at Churchill?

But I also think that CB shold of gotten some time, only because he has been a jockey since when, to damn long to do this.

[affirmed79]

This was bad for racing. For a new fan, they will think the jockeys do this everyday. But it seldom happens and too bad it happened on one of the biggest days in racing. I'm sure both jockeys will be suspended and fined.

[the Bid]

Javier made a dangerous move in the race and could have killed Martin. Calvin actually reached over and steadied Martin as Romp regained his footing. I bet AU Miner so I was interested in the situation. AU Miner then dropped back almost to last before rallying.

Calvin shouldn't have jumped on Javier in the winner's circle but I don't blame him for being very mad. Javier was wrong.

I also thought it ironic that every time they showed the jocks room they showed the famous picture of the famous "fighting finish" of the '33 Derby with the two ridings fighting down to the wire. Those two kept it up as they returned to the jocks room and were both fined.

[Starine]

I just hope that Calvin's rage was an isolated incident. It wouldn't be pretty if he lost it on the track the way he did on Friday.

The photos and videos resemble a madman totally out of control.

It was almost scary, even to me as a viewer. The sheer rage on his face left me speechless.

[Hermes]

Racing marketing dept.'s should pay Calvin for the publicity.As long as no one dies in this sport, there is NO bad publicity.

On the 5k fine, that is the highest fine allowed in KY, but I suppose they could have given him days to boot. I got the impression that Calvin was very contrite with the stewards and feels awful, and they all know him in KY and no that is not his normal temperament, and they get that JC imperiled lives in the race, and I'd guess thought that would have been a much worse scene than Calvin trying to kill him later.

As for JC's suspension for the ride, they immediately appealed so he can ride in Japan. I wish they had made it 30 days, so he could appeal away and when he finally serves it, it costs him business to be out that long. That would have made him think twice.

[Hermes]

Only if Calvin got double the sentence, at least.

Javier made a mistake, being that he's human and all.

Calvin showed a rage that belies the notion that his "normal temperament" is anything that you perceive it to be. His lack of control over that rage, despite being physically restrained and going on for many, many minutes, despite knowing cameras were on him and his actions and words were being broadcast across the country and the world, that is far more reprehensible than Javier making a mistake.

I don't find it reprehensible. I find it sad. But if you would rather have seen a gory horrific accident caused by an avoidable mistake by a top veteran jock who knew much better, than to see a fight between jocks, no problem.

[eyeforglory]

I don't find it reprehensible. I find it sad. But if you would rather have seen a gory horrific accident caused by an avoidable mistake by a top veteran jock who knew much better, than to see a fight between jocks, no problem.

A fight that was started by a top veteran jock, who should of known better.

[Horsebagger]

Racing marketing dept.'s should pay Calvin for the publicity.As long as no one dies in this sport, there is NO bad publicity.

On the 5k fine, that is the highest fine allowed in KY, but I suppose they could have given him days to boot. I got the impression that Calvin was very contrite with the stewards and feels awful, and they all know him in KY and no that is not his normal temperament, and they get that JC imperiled lives in the race, and I'd guess thought that would have been a much worse scene than Calvin trying to kill him later.

As for JC's suspension for the ride, they immediately appealed so he can ride in Japan. I wish they had made it 30 days, so he could appeal away and when he finally serves it, it costs him business to be out that long. That would have made him think twice.

The length of the suspension wouldn't have made a whole lot of difference at this time of year, IMO. He appealed, he'll ride in Japan and then at Delta Downs and probably through the stakes at Aqu at the end of the month. Then he can take the whole month of December off and not risk losing a single relationship. If it was a month from now, I'd say different. But appealing the suspension at this point was a no brainer and whatever he has to serve in December is not so damaging.

jmo.

[raven]

the rage shown in Borels face is the one thing that will stay with me.

[wooley85]

I don't find it reprehensible. I find it sad. But if you would rather have seen a gory horrific accident caused by an avoidable mistake by a top veteran jock who knew much better, than to see a fight between jocks, no problem.

Clearly, you don't watch much horse racing....or you wouldn't be appalled at Castallano's move. Close calls like that happen LOT. No way to defend Castallano here.

He saw an opening moved to it and cut-off Garcia. Castallano had seconds to make a decision and he almost made a deadly one. But you'll preach " should have known better:"..in the heat of battle a nanosecond move isn't usually a carefully considered decision"

Castallano doesn't not have a rep for bring an overly aggressive rider....he made a very bad move in a big race...and fortunately noone was hurt.
Clearly, the STEWARDS looked at the race and gave Castallano 7 days...THAT is the PENALTY they believe the infraction deserved. If Castallano's ride was as "reckless" and deliberate as you all believe, then Castellano would have been suspended for 30 days.

Maybe Bo-rail and every other jock should "stay off the rail" THAT would eliminate alot of dangerous moves.

[Forego]

Calvin showed a rage that belies the notion that his "normal temperament" is anything that you perceive it to be. His lack of control over that rage, despite being physically restrained and going on for many, many minutes, despite knowing cameras were on him and his actions and words were being broadcast across the country and the world, that is far more reprehensible than Javier making a mistake.

I am not sure that reprehensible is the word for the situation - maybe the word is "alarming". Calvin looked psychotic and deranged - trying to fight off all the guys who were restraining him. He knew he was on camera on the biggest racing day of the year - and even that did not stop him from carrying on like a WWE wrestler - only in his case, it was not an act. I do not care what his apparent "normal temperament " is either - that showed all of us a disturbing side of him. That did not just come out of nowhere. I'm not buying the good ol' humble Cajun boy routine anymore...

[Hermes]

Clearly, you don't watch much horse racing....or you wouldn't be appalled at Castallano's move. Close calls like that happen LOT. No way to defend Castallano here.

He saw an opening moved to it and cut-off Garcia. Castallano had seconds to make a decision and he almost made a deadly one. But you'll preach " should have known better:"..in the heat of battle a nanosecond move isn't usually a carefully considered decision"

Castallano doesn't not have a rep for bring an overly aggressive rider....he made a very bad move in a big race...and fortunately noone was hurt.
Clearly, the STEWARDS looked at the race and gave Castallano 7 days...THAT is the PENALTY they believe the infraction deserved. If Castallano's ride was as "reckless" and deliberate as you all believe, then Castellano would have been suspended for 30 days.

Maybe Bo-rail and every other jock should "stay off the rail" THAT would eliminate alot of dangerous moves.

Yeah, I watch plenty of racing, too much actually. No, most top jocks don't make such lame brain mistakes that endanger other riders and horses. Not sure where "appalled" entered the deal, though.

JC deserved days and got them. SIX. Also was denied appeal, and secured court injunction so he could ride in Japan. He made a right hand turn with no regard to the other horses and riders, and almost caused one or two to go down.

[1/8-pole]

I dont think Calvin should get anything. Javier hit him first. He is lucky Calvin was held back or he would of beat his butt. Javier only got 6 days and that is horrible. His rideing could of got someone killed.

[Whos the Cowboy]

I dont think Calvin should get anything. Javier hit him first. He is lucky Calvin was held back or he would of beat his butt. Javier only got 6 days and that is horrible. His rideing could of got someone killed.

He got 6 days for the DQ, which was short, and nothing for the confrontation. He should have received 6 days for every spot that he was dropped in the results, and another 30 days for the confrontation. Borel should have been given 6 days for the confrontation.

[1/8-pole]

He got 6 days for the DQ, which was short, and nothing for the confrontation. He should have received 6 days for every spot that he was dropped in the results, and another 30 days for the confrontation. Borel should have been given 6 days for the confrontation.


Would have no problem with that.

[Starine]

From the DRF:


Three-time Kentucky Derby-winning jockey Calvin Borel will be honored Saturday after the races with the Warner L. Jones Jr. Horsemen of the Year Award by the Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners, Inc. Tickets to the 22nd annual KTO Awards Dinner at the Kentucky Derby Museum are $125. More information is available at (502) 458-5820. Borel is only the second jockey to be honored by the organization, following Pat Day in 1992.

Ironic timing.

[Kennedy]

The KY Owners must be just cringing. Obviously they had announced Borel as the winner of this award before the BC but it would not be inappropriate if he lost this. If you're a member of that organization how can you really attend that banquet and give him a round of applause for being horseman of the year?

[Hermes]

The KY Owners must be just cringing. Obviously they had announced Borel as the winner of this award before the BC but it would not be inappropriate if he lost this. If you're a member of that organization how can you really attend that banquet and give him a round of applause for being horseman of the year?

He is a good horseman and helped two horses stay up and a rider stay tied on. Then he lost his temper with the jock that caused the mayhem once they were all off the track in once piece. Even if that was wrong, it was human based on what the jock did that almost caused a gruesome tragedy.

I doubt many owners are as myopic or judgemental, or quite simply as clueless as many at this and other message boards, so have no worries.

[djnorth]

While I'm not a fan of violence I do get a little confused by people who think the "dust-up" was nearly as bad a PR black eye to racing as the Life at Ten mess and subsequent non-decision.

I think Calvin is a good horseman, concerned about the welfare of his charges and the safety of the game. I'd give him the award as well.

I didn't see it but heard that he said, "It's over." after he calmed down. He (and Castellano and the rest of the jockeys) appear to recognize that the guy you slugged one minute may save your butt in the very next race.

[Kennedy]

Even if that was wrong, it was human based on what the jock did that almost caused a gruesome tragedy.

I doubt many owners are as myopic or judgemental, or quite simply as clueless as many at this and other message boards, so have no worries.

Sorry, even IF it was wrong? Borel's incident was way past the line and yes it was a black eye for the sport. Despite the fact that it's an award for horseman of the year I'm not sure you can really separate his actions towards horses and his actions on national television broadcasting the sport he is supposed to represent so well.

It's kind of like John Terry (former England captain) getting that father of the year award only just prior to revelations about him cheating on his wife with a teammates gal. I have no doubt that's he's a kind man to his kids but it's a big black eye that's hard to look past in the near term. It makes the award seem cheap and a bit out of place.

I don't begrudge Calvin the award but based on his recent behavior I bet a few people are wishing they could pull out. How many people want to pay $125 to give him a round of applause right now?

[Kennedy]

While I'm not a fan of violence I do get a little confused by people who think the "dust-up" was nearly as bad a PR black eye to racing as the Life at Ten mess and subsequent non-decision.


Why does one incident have to be better or worse. They were both black eyes but as far as I'm aware none of Pletcher, Johnny V or the track vet are having a dinner this weekend to celebrate how great they are for the sport.

[Starine]

This is interesting colloquy; let's keep it going.

[Hermes]

Sorry, even IF it was wrong? Borel's incident was way past the line and yes it was a black eye for the sport. Despite the fact that it's an award for horseman of the year I'm not sure you can really separate his actions towards horses and his actions on national television broadcasting the sport he is supposed to represent so well.

It's kind of like John Terry (former England captain) getting that father of the year award only just prior to revelations about him cheating on his wife with a teammates gal. I have no doubt that's he's a kind man to his kids but it's a big black eye that's hard to look past in the near term. It makes the award seem cheap and a bit out of place.

I don't begrudge Calvin the award but based on his recent behavior I bet a few people are wishing they could pull out. How many people want to pay $125 to give him a round of applause right now?

Your reaction is almost as over the top as Borel's was. You two should have a drink. Maybe he'll even buy:evil:

[Kennedy]

Your reaction is almost as over the top as Borel's was. You two should have a drink. Maybe he'll even buy:evil:

??? That is such a ridiculous comment I'm actually at a loss for words.

You are equating a guy flying off the handle on national television, refusing to calm down, having to be restrained for well over 5 minutes on camera, pushing and fighting against restraint (even against his wife) with the comment that it might be poor timing for such a man to receive an award of honor for being a good guy for the sport?

What?

That's a baseless and insulting thing to say. It makes me wonder if you actually watched the Borel incident.

[Kennedy]

I don't find it reprehensible.

Ahh, I should have gone back and read your ridiculous opinion before trying to respond to your latest shocker.

I get it now. You're completely out to lunch and seemingly lack a moral base.

[Hermes]

Ahh, I should have gone back and read your ridiculous opinion before trying to respond to your latest shocker.

I get it now. You're completely out to lunch and seemingly lack a moral base.

You know at some point, Calvin moved on. Calmed down. Try it. Before we award you the TBC Sanctimonious Lifetime Achievement crown. Do you huff when you puff?

The sushi was fresh and very tasty at lunch. Thanks for asking:evil:

[Rick1323]

The sushi was fresh and very tasty at lunch. Thanks for asking:evil:

Baiting Kennedy wasn't enough? You had it for lunch too?

[Slewbopper]

The length of the suspension wouldn't have made a whole lot of difference at this time of year, IMO. He appealed, he'll ride in Japan and then at Delta Downs and probably through the stakes at Aqu at the end of the month. Then he can take the whole month of December off and not risk losing a single relationship. If it was a month from now, I'd say different. But appealing the suspension at this point was a no brainer and whatever he has to serve in December is not so damaging.

jmo.

And herein lies the rub regarding suspensions. Pletcher appealed his 45 day suspension for a positive at Saratoga a couple years ago. He ended up serving his days during the dead of winter a year and 4 months later. His suspension should have been for an entire Saratoga meet.

[Slewbopper]

Ahh, I should have gone back and read your ridiculous opinion before trying to respond to your latest shocker.

I get it now. You're completely out to lunch and seemingly lack a moral base.

Hey Ken....Herpes is forever. You can't get rid of her.

[Hermes]

Hey Ken....Herpes is forever. You can't get rid of her.

But I only erupt on occasion. And admit it Blowbop, you miss me when I don't bait the TBC hook.

[Kennedy]

You know at some point, Calvin moved on. Calmed down. Try it. Before we award you the TBC Sanctimonious Lifetime Achievement crown. Do you huff when you puff?


So you simply ignore everything he did while in a fit of rage because at some point he calmed down? Borel disgraced himself and the sport and it's a hard sell to have a banquet just a week later when the main topic is lauding his contribution to horse racing in Kentucky. Sometimes we have consequences for our actions. A simple acknowledgment that he no longer wants to kill Castellano doesn't cut it.

You can dream up any type of award you want to give me. You don't speak for the board, you have a hard enough time just avoiding bans. For someone with zero credibility to stand back and take pot shots at another, that is simply making a valid observation on events, is classless.

How about you go on from this thread and spend a day, just one day, making a positive contribution to TBC. There are some of us that try to do that regularly.

[Hermes]

So you simply ignore everything he did while in a fit of rage because at some point he calmed down? Borel disgraced himself and the sport and it's a hard sell to have a banquet just a week later when the main topic is lauding his contribution to horse racing in Kentucky. Sometimes we have consequences for our actions. A simple acknowledgment that he no longer wants to kill Castellano doesn't cut it.

You can dream up any type of award you want to give me. You don't speak for the board, you have a hard enough time just avoiding bans. For someone with zero credibility to stand back and take pot shots at another, that is simply making a valid observation on events, is classless.

How about you go on from this thread and spend a day, just one day, making a positive contribution to TBC. There are some of us that try to do that regularly.

Oh, 'wil Ken doll, did I get under your thin skin? Who exactly got personal here? You take yourself WAY too seriously. But the rest of us don't. So carry on, your award was won in a walkover and it is in the mail.

BTW, did JC say he no longer wanted to kill any jocks he turned right in front of at 40 mph yet? And the "consequences" of which you are oh so fond was a 5k fine and scathing nasty posts like the ones you have been making about Calvin in public.

[Kennedy]

Oh, 'wil Ken doll, did I get under your thin skin? Who exactly got personal here? You take yourself WAY too seriously. But the rest of us don't. So carry on, your award was won in a walkover and it is in the mail.

What is the point of this post? Is it that you just have to state again that you don't like me or that you simply enjoy being a fool?

Why not step out of character and contribute something positive.



BTW, did JC say he no longer wanted to kill any jocks he turned right in front of at 40 mph yet? And the "consequences" of which you are oh so fond was a 5k fine and scathing nasty posts like the ones you have been making about Calvin in public.

Castellano was careless and reckless but had no intent to injure anyone. He just forgot how easily his actions could hurt people. A fine and suspension of days is appropriate. Calvin was different, he intended to and tried repeatedly to hurt someone. A 5k fine and the suggestion on a message board that he may not deserve a banquet in his honor is hardly a consequence. There was nothing "scathing" in what I wrote.

[Ty88]

Just want to interject and say Kennedy is a valued contributor to this board whose posts are always level-headed and intelligent. He is the last person who deserves such disrespect. Keep up the good work, Kennedy.

[Sun King]

I am late on this and I don't have time to go back and read this entire thread. But that whole incident was so embarrassing, for the sport, for the viewers, for everyone. I was watching it thinking 'Okay, I'm used to seeing this in hockey, even football, but not here".

But I will say, ESPN did their part to completely exploit it and almost promote it for ratings, by showing it 100,000 times. They should have just showed it when it happened, maybe make a mention of it during the broadcast and move on. But they went completely nuts with it.

I was mostly stunned because I've known Calvin through a friend of mine, for years. And I was just shocked to see him get like that, because it was completely out of character. Then I thought that Javier said something that set him off (I'm still not sure of this). That being said, it was unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. And the fines were appropriate. I just hope nothing like that happens again, ever. What a disgrace, in front of people, cameras, a national audience. It made the BC look like a joke and ESPN dubbed it "Freaky Friday". Real nice.

And not to change the subject, but I found Uncle Mo's owner to be completely disgraceful too, advertising how he had Grey Goose Vodka in his Vitamin Water bottle and saying "I'm going to get so drunk tonight!" that prompted the ESPN guy to say "This is a family show, but thank you for your comments" Was that REALLY necessary? Great, so people who don't watch racing tune in and think "Wow, this sport is filled with alcoholics and violent jockeys. Real nice"