Zenyatta News

[forgotten]

All the bickering instead of just enjoying this mare. One for the ages. Zenyatta, another wow performance today.

What a great weekend of racing. Zenyatta. Rachel. Blame. Rail Trip. A fabulous weekend to be a racing fan.


I 100% agree :smiley:

[islandgirl45]

Yea all the articles Ive read that have just been posted say that she was all out. I believe it. She was digging deep to get those final strides of St Trin, who was running her eyeballs out.


It really didn't help that she rounded the turn and was pointed to the grandstand, about 7 paths wide. Not sure why Mike Smith did that, because it gave her a lot more distance to make up and she had to run back left to cut it down.

[Draynay]

I will leave this thread on that note..... great weekend of racing !!! Hope to see the winners face each other soon !!! :grin:

[violabella]

I will leave this thread on that note..... great weekend of racing !!! Hope to see the winners face each other soon !!! :grin:


Well, I'll be the first one to say that I DO WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE with this statement!

[GinTalking]

It really didn't help that she rounded the turn and was pointed to the grandstand, about 7 paths wide. Not sure why Mike Smith did that, because it gave her a lot more distance to make up and she had to run back left to cut it down.


Mike Smith explained why he did that in the interview after the race. Where better to have a late running horse who is carrying more weight than the others than on the outside. He knew the other riders knew where he was and he thought about splitting horses, but decided it was easier to just go around.

[forgotten]

It really didn't help that she rounded the turn and was pointed to the grandstand, about 7 paths wide. Not sure why Mike Smith did that, because it gave her a lot more distance to make up and she had to run back left to cut it down.


the way St T runs, he was probably taking extra precautions that one of her legs didn't fly sideways while she was running and trip Z.





*that would be sarcasm for the ones here that like to pick things apart*

[islandgirl45]

The boys would whip her good.

The Boys ran the Stephen Foster in 1:49.37
Zen ran the Vanity in 1:49.01; That's faster than the Boys.

Could you just stop trolling?

[Rick1323]

Not bad. We got to watch the winner of the BC Distaff and the Classic in the same race....again.

[wooley85]

Mike Smith explained why he did that in the interview after the race. Where better to have a late running horse who is carrying more weight than the others than on the outside. He knew the other riders knew where he was and he thought about splitting horses, but decided it was easier to just go around.


Great race by Z! That is a champion...looked like she might not get there in time but not today
17-0 Undefeated.

[fluffy]

Well, I'll be the first one to say that I DO WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE with this statement!

Thank you for making this point tonight. If only IT would go; but I am afraid it will not...too much stew stirring/enabling has gone on for IT to be blissfully GONE. But one can only hope :laugh:

[BornToWin]

Does watching this inspirational warrior Queen do battle count as a cardiovascular workout for me?

What heart she has--it is a joy to watch and appreciate the stunning courage and drive of this animal. Her athleticism and professionalism is a tribute to her connections.

Anyone know how fast they were going in that last charge? St. Trianians is sure one to watch. Interesting too that Zenyatta's competition is coming from outside the US. The TT video is good. She doesn't seem to have broken a sweat on the video. Did she? She is so balanced, she squares up naturally. What a beauty...

Zenyatta is a story to rival any racing story--ever. And we are witnessing it...

[BornToWin]

How much ground does she cover in one racing stride?

[SecretariatForever]

http://drf.com/news/article/113885.html


"What's amazing about this race is that I think she needed the race," Smith said. "I think she had an easy race first time out and she got a really easy race at Oaklawn. I think this will put her back to the [form of the Breeders' Cup] Classic and maybe better, I hope. I think this race will really move her forward."

[Turul]

The Boys ran the Stephen Foster in 1:49.37
Zen ran the Vanity in 1:49.01; That's faster than the Boys.




One race was run at CD the other at HP.

No handicapper compares times at different racetracks.

[littlelate]

One race was run at CD the other at HP.

No handicapper compares times at different racetracks.
Then dray ain't no handicapper; if he rolled an apple down a hill faster than Zen ran this race, he'd claim the apple was better because it went faster, conditions be darned.

[islandgirl45]

Then dray ain't no handicapper; if he rolled an apple down a hill faster than Zen ran this race, he'd claim the apple was better because it went faster, conditions be darned.


Thanks. I wasn't handicapping, simply addressing Dray's insulting comment.

[SecretariatForever]

One race was run at CD the other at HP.

No handicapper compares times at different racetracks.


True. But...CD is a much faster track than HWP. It was a fast track yesterday. They should have run faster than a mare carrying 129 on synthetic.

If you don't like that comparison then here's one...I bet Zen came home faster than Blame did. :wink:



http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57479/zenyatta-stands-alone-with-record-17th-win


Asked if he was concerned, Shirreffs responded, "Well, it's a horse race and they have to fight it out down there at the wire. Her last couple of works were a little on the slow side so we were a little concerned about that."

:undecided: Hopefully Smith is right and she just probably needs this race to really kick her into gear. Two very easy races (paid workouts you could call them) this year may have made her a bit lazy.

[Ezariah]

The TT video is good. She doesn't seem to have broken a sweat on the video. Did she?


No. She looked as good after the race as she did before. Never drew a deep breath.

[Huaka]

Yeah, I was worried. Her works leading up to the race were pretty slow by her standards. She usually has a last breeze 1:11/1:12 and change and it makes her sharp and ready to go. And in hindsight her earlier races were really easy, not a good way to crank her up for a race mentality if she's gonna think all of them are gonna be like that. But FANTASTIC race from her! Everyone in my house was screaming at the TV!

[islandgirl45]

If you don't like that comparison then here's one...I bet Zen came home faster than Blame did. :wink:

From Bloodhorse.com: "The winner ran the final eighth of a mile in about :11 2/5 seconds to collar St Trinians about 10 strides from the wire."

And..."In spite of the taxing effort, Zenyatta had a little left for her appreciative fans after it was over. She danced and posed in front of the grandstand for about five minutes on her way to the winner's circle."

[SecretariatForever]

From Bloodhorse.com: "The winner ran the final eighth of a mile in about :11 2/5 seconds to collar St Trinians about 10 strides from the wire."


wow!

[islandgirl45]

I really hope they start running her in either mixed company or in some different dirt races, because I can't imagine consistently carrying 129 pounds or more will be good for her back.

I really pray she doesn't go to Del Mar, because it's well known she doesn't like the track surface there and the Clement Hirsch is only 1-1/16, which would have gotten her beaten today.

[Huaka]

I wonder IF she raced in the Delware Handicap, do you think they'd pack on the weight for her? Or maybe they'd make it easier because her races were out on the West Coast?

[islandgirl45]

I wonder IF she raced in the Delware Handicap, do you think they'd pack on the weight for her? Or maybe they'd make it easier because her races were out on the West Coast?


I wonder. That race is 1-1/4 miles, too.

[forgotten]

I really hope they start running her in either mixed company or in some different dirt races, because I can't imagine consistently carrying 129 pounds or more will be good for her back.


Its not her back that would pay the price, it would be her legs. As you can see, the riders are up off their backs so they dont' take the pounding that the legs do.

I guess if you consider that a handicap is supposed to level the field, they very nearly got it right today. That was way too close for comfort and hopefully this race will sharpen her up.

[Faith]

Taxing. I chuckle at the thought. Sure, she had to work more for it than she normally does, but she barely broke a sweat and I'm sure never took a deep breath. She wasn't even blowing. Poor St. Trinians was wiped out after her courageous effort.

[Huaka]

^ How did St Trinians look? Was she covered in sweat, head down, and ears back? I hope she doesn't get so wiped out it takes her a long while to get back up to the speed. If people said Rachel laid herself down on the line in the Woodward, that mare certainly did too.

[Ezariah]

^ How did St Trinians look? Was she covered in sweat, head down, and ears back? I hope she doesn't get so wiped out it takes her a long while to get back up to the speed. If people said Rachel laid herself down on the line in the Woodward, that mare certainly did too.


I'm going to grab a bite to eat with Dr John H, but when I get back, I will post a pic of Zen and one of ST after the race. I thought she ran a hell of a race and I'm so glad the crowd gave her an ovation when she came back. She certainly deserved it!

[Faith]

^ How did St Trinians look? Was she covered in sweat, head down, and ears back? I hope she doesn't get so wiped out it takes her a long while to get back up to the speed. If people said Rachel laid herself down on the line in the Woodward, that mare certainly did too.


Tired. Very tired. She was also hot going into the gate. A little, not washed out. But tired. I'm gonna check my DVR later and look more closely.

[islandgirl45]

Taxing. I chuckle at the thought. Sure, she had to work more for it than she normally does, but she barely broke a sweat and I'm sure never took a deep breath. She wasn't even blowing. Poor St. Trinians was wiped out after her courageous effort.


Mike Smith admitted he was overconfident when they turned for home and surprised St Trinians hit another gear. I cannot believe he didn't watch the replay of St. Trinians beating Life Is Sweet in the Santa Maria. Thank God the Vanity was 1-1/8 miles instead of the 1-1/16 in the Santa Maria.

[Railbird]

Check out the front page of Equidaily. Quick, before anything changes.

[Huaka]

Haha! AWESOME!

[StarGirl11]

:laugh: that is awesome!

[personalensign79]

:cheesy: :cheesy: awesome!

[susan]

Taxing. I chuckle at the thought. Sure, she had to work more for it than she normally does, but she barely broke a sweat and I'm sure never took a deep breath. She wasn't even blowing. Poor St. Trinians was wiped out after her courageous effort.


I am with you here--she looked dry right after the race and she was hardly blowing .

Have to love St. Trinians--so little, so crooked, and no quit in her .

[Dusty]

LOVE IT!

[Native Diver]

Mike Smith admitted he was overconfident when they turned for home and surprised St Trinians hit another gear. I cannot believe he didn't watch the replay of St. Trinians beating Life Is Sweet in the Santa Maria. Thank God the Vanity was 1-1/8 miles instead of the 1-1/16 in the Santa Maria.


That was my biggest fear about this race; that Mike would underestimate St. Trinians and wait too long to open the Big Z up. I was hoping he would stay closer to St. T and be more aggressive; but Zenyatta pulled it off just the same. After reading JS comments lately about Z not liking to vary from a set routine or pattern, maybe Mike is hesitant to do anything different with her running style, because that is such a set routine for her too. In any event, congratulations to Team Zenyatta! And a big kiss to the scrappiest little mare I've seen lately, St. T. Her heart is in her hooves!

[Ezariah]

Zen after the race:
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Ezariah7/Zenyatta/AftertheraceJune13th10-1a.jpg

St. Trinians after the race:
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Ezariah7/StTriniansJune13th10-1a.jpg

[StarGirl11]

Zen after the race:
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Ezariah7/Zenyatta/AftertheraceJune13th10-1a.jpg


-whistle- She looks great.

[Dusty]

Folks in SO CAL!!! They are showing this on the LOCAL NEWS! WOW!

[Ezariah]

-whistle- She looks great.


I added a pic of ST below Zen's pic.

[StarGirl11]

Folks in SO CAL!!! They are showing this on the LOCAL NEWS! WOW!


That's great to hear!

[islandgirl45]

An excerpt from the New York Times:

The question now is, Where will she race next? And when?

Moss has targeted the Breeders? Cup Classic in November at Churchill Downs in Louisville, Ky., with many fans wondering if they will see Zenyatta face off against Rachel Alexandra, a winner Saturday by 10? lengths in the Fleur De Lis Handicap at Churchill.

?There are a lot of races that are possibilities,? said Shirreffs, who added that a run at Belmont Park remained a possibility.

?We?ll see how things are.?

[Noble]

FYI, Zenyatta's bobblehead looks better in person than in pictures. The pic has it in an awkaward angle. The body is bigger seeing in person.

Thank you, Hollywood Park. Cool souvenir for a wonderful animal. At least if Zenyatta was gonna go for 17, she did it in front of her home track and she did it in dramatic-style like only Hollywood knows how to write...

I had some reserved opinions with her even prior to the race because I didn't like her workouts and she looked kinda off today. Less peppy. I just went for her anyway. Any race could be her final one, even today's. I figured if Rachel, Blame, and Rail Trip won yesterday, let's put the icing on the cake with the Zen Master. Not only did she joined the party, she throw herself one today and it rocked like usual. But I had much bigger doubts in this one than her previous two. But doubts can bring excitement and realistic expectations too. The game of unpredictability. That's what made Tiznow's second BCC win so much sweeter. He lost the Woodward and Goodwood to go off at 6-1 before that dramatic ending. You can still believe in Zen, but you must proceed with caution now. Time is her enemy now. She will eventually lose and then people will react that she is tailing off based on the figures. May not win another BC race no matter where they point her to. She will likely get another sub-100 Beyer for today and she won't get another Eclipse award this year either even for Older Female. We all get old, even her. She's starting to show her wrinkles as a racehorse even if it masked by wins. Wouldn't be too surprised if she is retired before the BC. It's cool. The torch needs to get passed to new blood eventually. But it has been a great run...

Another rocking experience today. When she made those last two jumps, I just knew she won and jumped around myself. But for a few seconds, I really did think St. Trinians got it. Amazing horse even if she is starting to show she is passed her prime.

[islandgirl45]

She's starting to show her wrinkles as a racehorse even if it masked by wins...Amazing horse even if she is starting to show she is passed her prime.


Huh? Masked by wins...Past her prime?

Someone should have told Mike Smith Zenyatta is losing it so badly before he made this statement to DRF:

Smith said Sunday's race will make Zenyatta an even tougher rival in coming starts, which he and the rest of her team hope will lead to a start in the Breeders' Cup Classic at Churchill Downs in November.

"What's amazing about this race is that I think she needed the race," Smith said. "I think she had an easy race first time out and she got a really easy race at Oaklawn. I think this will put her back to the [form of the Breeders' Cup] Classic and maybe better, I hope. I think this race will really move her forward."

It sounds logical to me that, until today, she hasn't been tested enough in her races this year so she hasn't progressed in conditioning as much as usual.

[susan]

FYI, Zenyatta's bobblehead looks better in person than in pictures. The pic has it in an awkaward angle. The body is bigger seeing in person.

Thank you, Hollywood Park. Cool souvenir for a wonderful animal. At least if Zenyatta was gonna go for 17, she did it in front of her home track and she did it in dramatic-style like only Hollywood knows how to write...

I had some reserved opinions with her even prior to the race because I didn't like her workouts and she looked kinda off today. Less peppy. I just went for her anyway. Any race could be her final one, even today's. I figured if Rachel, Blame, and Rail Trip won yesterday, let's put the icing on the cake with the Zen Master. Not only did she joined the party, she throw herself one today and it rocked like usual. But I had much bigger doubts in this one than her previous two. But doubts can bring excitement and realistic expectations too. The game of unpredictability. That's what made Tiznow's second BCC win so much sweeter. He lost the Woodward and Goodwood to go off at 6-1 before that dramatic ending. You can still believe in Zen, but you must proceed with caution now. Time is her enemy now. She will eventually lose and then people will react that she is tailing off based on the figures. May not win another BC race no matter where they point her to. She will likely get another sub-100 Beyer for today and she won't get another Eclipse award this year either even for Older Female. We all get old, even her. She's starting to show her wrinkles as a racehorse even if it masked by wins. Wouldn't be too surprised if she is retired before the BC. It's cool. The torch needs to get passed to new blood eventually. But it has been a great run...

Another rocking experience today. When she made those last two jumps, I just knew she won and jumped around myself. But for a few seconds, I really did think St. Trinians got it. Amazing horse even if she is starting to show she is passed her prime.


No no for the three peat .

[littlelate]

Huh? Masked by wins...Past her prime?

Someone should have told Mike Smith Zenyatta is losing it so badly before he made this statement to DRF:

Smith said Sunday's race will make Zenyatta an even tougher rival in coming starts, which he and the rest of her team hope will lead to a start in the Breeders' Cup Classic at Churchill Downs in November.

"What's amazing about this race is that I think she needed the race," Smith said. "I think she had an easy race first time out and she got a really easy race at Oaklawn. I think this will put her back to the [form of the Breeders' Cup] Classic and maybe better, I hope. I think this race will really move her forward."

It sounds logical to me that, until today, she hasn't been tested enough in her races this year so she hasn't progressed in conditioning as much as usual.
I'm going to agree with all of this. She needed this race, they'll work her into shape and she'll be an unstoppable force, a big mean monster that everyone will be scared to face.

[SecretariatForever]

Noble, it's nice to see your lack of faith and and not so lack of negativity for Zenyatta.

You're basing everything off of the fact that she wasn't "peppy" enough for you before the race? Do realize the fact that most horses by the time they hit 6 years old tend to calm down and relax a lot? Shirreffs has even said recently, she's 6 years old, she knows her routine now, she knows what she has to do. She simply may be calming down a bit. Not always a bad thing. And certainly doesn't always mean the horse is past their prime.

I wasn't there but you are the only one who has said that she wasn't "peppy" before the race. Everyone was talking about her doing her normal routine before the race. I saw the replay of her in the winners circle and she was doing the exact same thing I've seen her do after almost every race...pawing at the ground and looking ready to go around again.

[Huaka]

This is an old but lovely article. Have you all read it? Btw, did Zenyatta actually do that in the paddock?

Going into the tunnel, they are 15 deep in the passageway to her left and they scream and clap and wave signs and flash cameras and shout her name. And she struts some more. Only once is the spell broken ever so briefly when one of the fans whacks the rail, or his leg, with a program and she rears up. "Knock it off," shouts Shirreffs into the crowd. He recognized quickly that the sound projected out like that of a whip popping in the air.

The first few horses loaded just fine, then it was Zenyatta's turn -- and she wouldn't go forward. John saw why immediately.

"They've only got one of the gates open," he said in a concerned tone. "She needs both open -- they know that."


http://www.calracing.com/press_releases.php?f=ZenyattaJohnandMe.html

[BornToWin]

Smith said Sunday's race will make Zenyatta an even tougher rival in coming starts, which he and the rest of her team hope will lead to a start in the Breeders' Cup Classic at Churchill Downs in November.

"What's amazing about this race is that I think she needed the race," Smith said. "I think she had an easy race first time out and she got a really easy race at Oaklawn. I think this will put her back to the [form of the Breeders' Cup] Classic and maybe better, I hope. I think this race will really move her forward."

It sounds logical to me that, until today, she hasn't been tested enough in her races this year so she hasn't progressed in conditioning as much as usual.
[/quote]

When I read Mike's quote it made sense to me, too. You got to keep any athlete's interest in the game ---keeping their head in the game-- to win. She needs a challenger to bring out her best fighting spirit. We know she can problem solve. We know she can drive from 7 or 8 out from the rail and blow by everything. Now she's older and maybe a little trackwise--This was on her regular training track. That might be an advantage or disadvantage on a given day.

Zenyatta looked triumphant in her videos--like a show horse! You see it as well in the still photo shared here. She might be maturing in her head; nothing stays the same and from Mike's quote, it seems her trainer isn't sitting on his laurels. Taking nothing for granted. It is fascinating to watch how these top animals are managed.

I was a kid when Secretariat raced. His picture was everywhere and like others, I taped his posters to my bedroom wall alongside Man O' War. Sea The Stars is another great favorite of mine, though he is not as flashy as Zenyatta off the race track. She is everything beautiful about horses generally, and an example of strength, power, and drive. God love drive (gumption) in any being.

What a racehorse. What a Champion.

[PJMIII]

Zenyatta shows heart of a champion in Vanity

Unbeaten champion Zenyatta reeled in Grade 2 winner St Trinians (GB) in the closing strides of the Vanity Handicap (G1) on Sunday at Hollywood Park to win the race for a record third time and improve to 17 wins in as many career starts.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2010/June/13/Zenyatta-wins-Vanity.aspx

[carbonite]

Smith said Sunday's race will make Zenyatta an even tougher rival in coming starts, which he and the rest of her team hope will lead to a start in the Breeders' Cup Classic at Churchill Downs in November.

"What's amazing about this race is that I think she needed the race," Smith said. "I think she had an easy race first time out and she got a really easy race at Oaklawn. I think this will put her back to the [form of the Breeders' Cup] Classic and maybe better, I hope. I think this race will really move her forward."

It sounds logical to me that, until today, she hasn't been tested enough in her races this year so she hasn't progressed in conditioning as much as usual.


When I read Mike's quote it made sense to me, too. You got to keep any athlete's interest in the game ---keeping their head in the game-- to win.

That's what happened last year with the Hirsch. But it's worth remembering two things: first, that she indicated that mental change in her first workout after the Hirsch by becoming noticeably more aggressive, so it will be interesting to see if there is a similar step forward this time; second, last year's race was better timed, getting her moving forward as the fall season began. We're just going into mid-summer, and there's really nothing to be gained by going forward a gear now. That's a bit like setting her down for a drive at the half-mile pole, you're just asking to come up short in the stretch.

[Retrospectiv]

Re: the Zen bobbleheads, nice to see some of the greedy at it as usual. One Ebay seller has nine of them up. Glad to see they left some for the other fans <eye roll>.

[ManOTaz]

Noble, it's nice to see your lack of faith and and not so lack of negativity for Zenyatta.

You're basing everything off of the fact that she wasn't "peppy" enough for you before the race? Do realize the fact that most horses by the time they hit 6 years old tend to calm down and relax a lot? Shirreffs has even said recently, she's 6 years old, she knows her routine now, she knows what she has to do. She simply may be calming down a bit. Not always a bad thing. And certainly doesn't always mean the horse is past their prime.

I wasn't there but you are the only one who has said that she wasn't "peppy" before the race. Everyone was talking about her doing her normal routine before the race. I saw the replay of her in the winners circle and she was doing the exact same thing I've seen her do after almost every race...pawing at the ground and looking ready to go around again.


That is what I saw as well.

This win, after all, was not as close as the Clement Hirsch last year.

There were 4 9 furlong races this weekend 2 with females and 2 with males...on two tracks...

I know many suggest that times between tracks are not comparable...

But the example this weekend I think is instructive because it offers a look at times on the same tracks...

All winners seemed impressive, but the times did seem slow to me.

Zenyatta - Hollywood Park - June 13 - 1:49.01 The Vanity G1
Rail Trip - Hollywood Park - June 12 - 1:48.49 The Californian G2

Blame - Churchill Downs - June 12 - 1:49.37 - Stephen Foster G1
Rachel Alexandra Churchill Downs - June 12 - 1:48.78 - Fleur De Lis G2

Did anyone else feel that way?



I have never seen Z move better moving in the post parade and running ... Sore, my arse ...

She gave me a major panic attack, but she did it .. Dramarama extreme ...

I have to say that I have always been a fan of St. Trinians, and the little eggbeater ran brilliantly and went down in defeat so gamely ....


Major panic attack... Where was your faith in her? :grin:

My wife felt the same way...she kept saying "oh no..."

And I said look at her accelerating...she's got it... :azn:

Like they were saying on TVG...she knows where the wire is...and she knows how to get there...

Smith is just along for the ride. :wink:

I do not think she was vulnerable yesterday to any filly or mare in the country.

St. Trinians deserves a lot of credit, but the only horse that has a chance to beat Zenyatta is one accelerating to the finish line...and I do not believe that Trinny was doing that...I think her speed was pretty constand midway down the stretch.

Zenyatta might have been vulnerable to Rail Trip, but that is all - no fillies or mares. And I still believe that if she was to run in the HGC...now having a race under her belt...she wins going away. :cool:

Now, the Clement Hirsch could prove interesting because it is Zenyatta's least favorite synthetic surface...and if St. Trinians were to be in the same form it might be a race only if she took such a wide trip as in the Vanity. But I doubt it...I bet Smith saves ground and goes inside in the Hirsch...and Zenyatta wins going away.

Unforutnately, I do not think that Zenyatta will be heading to New York anytime soon. Seeing that she lost some weight...from the ship to the Apple Blossom...and the difficulty any horse has putting the weight back on once they lose it during racing season...Churchill will be the only place she will ship to IMHO...if she ships anywhere outside California.

Credit to Zenyatta and her connections. Another exciting, amazing race. Her third Grade I this year. Her 11th overall. I actually think it should be 12 because the Clement Hirsch in 2008 was a G2 in 08 and then it became a G1 the next year.

I did think the hyperbole with the TVG crew was a little overblown but I understand they were caught up in the moment...

[RSA]

For a split second at the top of the stertch it looked like Zardana was about to go turbo.

[ManOTaz]

For a split second at the top of the stertch it looked like Zardana was about to go turbo.


She probably was getting started and then felt the warm breath of Zenyatta's nostrils and said..."Nevermind." :azn:

[pokeyman]

She probably was getting started and then felt the warm breath of Zenyatta's nostrils and said..."Nevermind." :azn:

:azn: Good one!!!!

[Liztannica]

Here is a great blog that Jay Hovdey posted this morning on Zenyatta and St Trinians for those interested

http://hovdeyblog.drf.com/hovdeyblog/2010/06/we-did-think-about-other-things-and-trying-to-do-other-things-and-we-still-might-theres-options-i-wouldnt-pay-too-much-at.html

[ManOTaz]

Thanks...the following from the article is quite telling...I think...

As for Zenyatta, there remains an intense longing to see her race far and wide. Even the Mona Lisa toured the world. A couple days before the Vanity, owner Jerry Moss was asked about statements made earlier this year that seemed to leave little doubt Zenyatta would be pointed toward more engagements outside California. But now, the realities of campaigning a huge, 6-year-old beast who has been in fairly steady training nearly three solid years appears to be coming into play. Last week, Shirreffs was quoted by Steve Andersen in the Daily Racing Form suggesting that the Clement Hirsch at Del Mar was on Zenyatta's dance card after the Vanity. In that event, Zenyatta likely would have room for just one more race before heading to Churchill Downs for the Breeders' Cup Classic in November.

"I'm not going to go chasing Horse of the Year," Shirreffs told me. "Just being Zenyatta should be enough."

You would think. Moss, clearly the more adventurous of the two, was floored by the rock star reception Zenyatta received at Oaklawn Park, where she won the Apple Blossom in April, as well as enlightened by its physical effects on his mare.

"I didn't realize how much trips take out of the horse," Moss said. "And it's not just preparing for the race. It's the crowd, and the people that gather around her all the time. We saw that at Oaklawn Park, and we really hadn't thought about it before. You can put up a screen, like John does. But she's still aware there's something going on. There's a lot of energy generated. As far as racing elsewhere, we did think about trying to do other things, and we still might. There's options. I wouldn't pay too much attention to Del Mar being a solid item. There's no commitments there."

The Zenyatta team always ends up very much on the same page, and the big mare always comes through to tie things up with a bright ribbon. Anyone who thinks Zenyatta beat a bunch of patsies on Sunday needed to put a clock on St. Trinians -- who handled Life Is Sweet earlier in the year -- through that final quarter mile. Her front legs going all directions, the British mare gave as much as you can give to a race and still be upright at the end. Standing there afterwards, being unsaddled in the backwash of the Zenyatta din, she was spent, dizzy and noble. I hope she knew some of that noise was for her.

[Sheepish]

The thing I don't get is, sure she doesn't ship well, but they WILL be shipping to Churchill Downs for the BC, so why not ship her NOW rather than before that race? If they intend to go to the BC, I understand not wanting to ship her all over the place, but they have to ship her once to get there. I can't believe Churchill Downs doesn't have anything to suit her between now and the BC.

[Railbird]

The thing I don't get is, sure she doesn't ship well, but they WILL be shipping to Churchill Downs for the BC, so why not ship her NOW rather than before that race? If they intend to go to the BC, I understand not wanting to ship her all over the place, but they have to ship her once to get there. I can't believe Churchill Downs doesn't have anything to suit her between now and the BC.


Their current meet ends on July 4, so I think that comes up too quick - and IIRC, there isn't anything that really fits her anyway, it's mostly 2YO stakes (Bashford Manor, Debutante) and turf stakes. The fall meet that the BC is a part of opens on Oct. 31, so too soon before the races.

[Hermes]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/horseracing/la-sp-dwyre-zenyatta-20100614,0,3057341.column?track=rss&utm_source=fee dburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latim es%2Fsports%2Fhorseracing+%28L.A.+Times+-+Horse+Racing%29

Bob Baffert stood nearby. Perhaps the most famous trainer in the sport right now, Baffert didn't have a horse running, but said he couldn't stand watching at home. He wanted to witness this history firsthand, and, like everybody else, didn't want any departure from that script. He watched the race with owner Arnold Zetcher, whose Zardana was among those challenging Zenyatta.

"If I see Zardana well in front coming down the stretch," Baffert said, "I'm going to tell Arnold that I gotta go, that I left Bode [his young son] in the car."

[forgotten]

I added a pic of ST below Zen's pic.


You saw RA AND Z race this weekend?????? *jealous*

[Noble]

I was looking at my bobblehead today, and mines seems to have been scraped with paint on the saddlecloth. You can hardly see the Z in Zenyatta. Oh well. Not a bad souvenir. It is actually taller than my Seattle Slew and Spectacular Bid one.

Cool to see Bob Baffert. I remember seeing him in the walk ring and was wondering why he was there. I even checked my program to see if he had a horse in the Vanity. Just Zetcher's companion and another Zealot wanting to witness history. Very cool, Bob. Show your support. I know I am a little ticked at Shirreffs on how to campaign this horse, but people kept telling good luck when Z was entering the walk ring, and he was nice enough to always respond.

Man, the crowd went wild AGAIN. Much louder than the Friday night concerts that they have there and the attendance was only around 12K. Rock Hard Ten's most emotional and loudest applause came in the 2005 Santa Anita Handicap. The racetrack shook when he won. With Zenyatta, I have witnessed it personally at least three times now! The '09 LS was fairly loud, but it didn't match the intensity of the last three (BCC, SM, Vanity). The crowd rocked again. I really thought St. Trinians had it. But props to her for an awesome run. That's another time Zardana finishes behind St. T in a race. The race kinda played out like the Santa Maria Handicap four months ago except this time, Zenyatta did catch up to St Trinians instead of seeing Life Is Sweet running for 2nd.

Back in March, top 3YO filly Blind Luck loses the Santa Anita Oaks by closing too late but loses to Crisp. A week later, Zenyatta shows how it is done winning the Santa Margarita. Last week, Blind Luck loses to Switch in the Hollywood Oaks. A week later, Zenyatta shows how it is done again by winning the Vanity. Taking any notes, Blind Luck? Just shows you how hard it is for a closer to win all the time and fire every time at the mercy of a pace. Good horses can win and then lose. They win maybe 3-4 races in a row, and then they finish 2nd. Great horses just win (MOSTLY).

As long as most everybody left the racetrack with a smile. This is INGLEWOOD, folks. Yet, so many positive vibes across all races and ages after the Zenyatta made us erupt with applause yet again.

Good times. :cool:

[littlelate]

And they want to tear this race track down. Anyone else feel sick?

[ezgoerbaby]

Re: the Zen bobbleheads, nice to see some of the greedy at it as usual. One Ebay seller has nine of them up. Glad to see they left some for the other fans <eye roll>.


Did that inflate attendance? What do they call those? Spinners?

[GinTalking]

You'd almost think Jay Hovdey never participated in any of the races Cigar ran in. Maybe he wasn't at Woodbine when Cigar arrived and fifty people piled into the barn to see him ... and watch him push Mike Marten over who was kneeling inside the barn. I had Cigar's head right above mine at one point. I didn't dare move that I'd startle him. In hindsight, I realize now ... I should have reached out and kissed his muzzle! Yeah, right. But that's what people do these days. It's weird.

From what I heard from a photographer who was at Oaklawn, one enterprising person reached down and pulled Zenyatta's head up from grazing so she (I think it was a she) could have her photo taken with the horse. That's not a fan. That's someone who doesn't have a clue. Who does that! An idiot.

But who allows that. I don't care who you are or who the horse is. I find all the access to be odd. There's access and then there's access. One says you're welcome to stand 20-30 feet away and watch her graze and take your photos. What's with even letting a fan get anywhere near a horse like that ... particularly in a crowd. Liability anyone? That's likely why all the tracks are clamping down on what photographers can and can't do. There's more can't do than the opposite.

If a trainer wants to allow people into their barn to pat a horse in his/her stall, that's great. I have no problem with that. But I just don't get letting people pat her while she's outside grazing as if she were a shetland pony (which actually may be nastier than Zen ever thought of being).

I was always taught to respect their space. You don't go into a barn until you are invited. You don't approach a horse unless you have permission. I guess that just doesn't apply any more.

[The Tin Man]

And they want to tear this race track down. Anyone else feel sick?


It's my favorite track in SoCal ... I keep hoping for a miracle that likely will never come :sad:

But at least, for now, it's staying around longer than we'd been told at first.

Home of Zenyatta and home of Lava Man ... Yet they're gonna be losing their home. Well ... at least Lava Man will. :sad:

[littlelate]

Insane. When I met her, I was told to bring a friend or two (as in, 3 ppl max). I was allowed to pet her, but "please stay by her shoulder." I was allowed to feed her a mint while she was in her stall, but "please watch your fingers, she gets a little excited about treats." And that was totally fine. That's good work by the people in the barn being inviting but reminding you that this is a favour to you; don't push it. If Zen were my charge I'd have slapped anyone getting near her face, and probably decked anyone interfering with her doing something as private (as in, time with her and her groom to unwind) as grazing.

[Largent80]

It's my favorite track in SoCal ... I keep hoping for a miracle that likely will never come :sad:

But at least, for now, it's staying around longer than we'd been told at first.

Home of Zenyatta and home of Lava Man ... Yet they're gonna be losing their home. Well ... at least Lava Man will. :sad:

It makes me sick to think of another track going down, and Hollywood is so beautiful. The last thing we need is more condos, stores, or whatever else they would put there.


When I lived in Washington, Boeing bought Longacres, tore it up and put 2 measly buildings there, rediculous.

[Hermes]

Insane. When I met her, I was told to bring a friend or two (as in, 3 ppl max). I was allowed to pet her, but "please stay by her shoulder." I was allowed to feed her a mint while she was in her stall, but "please watch your fingers, she gets a little excited about treats." And that was totally fine. That's good work by the people in the barn being inviting but reminding you that this is a favour to you; don't push it. If Zen were my charge I'd have slapped anyone getting near her face, and probably decked anyone interfering with her doing something as private (as in, time with her and her groom to unwind) as grazing.


I hear Jess Jackson is hiring.

[Hermes]

"We won't really commit until we know what Del Mar is like," Shirreffs said. "When it's loose, racing is very different on it. When it's tight, training is very different on it. We have to hope they find a happy medium for it."

http://www.drf.com/news/article/113910.html

DRF:

If Zenyatta skips Del Mar, she could be sent to the East Coast, although Shirreffs seemed cool to that idea on Monday.

"How many times do you really want to cross the country," he said. The Breeders' Cup Classic at Churchill Downs in November is Zenyatta's long-term goal.

Shirreffs emphasized that a decision on Zenyatta's next start will be made only in the days before the Clement Hirsch. "It will be very late," he said.

St Trinians may start in the Clement Hirsch. She lost her left front shoe in the Vanity. Mitchell thinks it might have happened at the quarter-pole, but declined to make excuses for the half-length loss.

[forgotten]

I was always taught to respect their space. You don't go into a barn until you are invited. You don't approach a horse unless you have permission. I guess that just doesn't apply any more.


It applies at any track I've ever been at. Its weird the access they do allow people with this horse. Its kind of nice to see and it apparently doesn't bother the horse, but strange to see it at the track.

[littlelate]

I hear Jess Jackson is hiring.
Really. Come on, grabbing her halter and yanking her head up? Unacceptable and should at lest have had the person told to leave, but I'm willing to bet that didn't happen.

[Hermes]

Really. Come on, grabbing her halter and yanking her head up? Unacceptable and should at lest have had the person told to leave, but I'm willing to bet that didn't happen.


Was teasing you. The pull her head up bit if hard to believe. I would never be able to deal with the public without yelling at them which I know is a surprise to many here;)

I know that the access at OP seemed to be an issue and recall JS saying they should have had security for her in the video he posted where he meets her back at HWP after she flies home. He knew that all day on Sat. she had visitors and the asst. he left with her humored it, but yes, I agree, too much. There is the crazy level security on Rachel at one end of the continuum, and then there is the all access pass to Z, which per that Hovdey piece, is now an issue for her? I notice how nice and accommodating JS is in general, and the Mosses, and think it is wonderful.

[The Tin Man]

It makes me sick to think of another track going down, and Hollywood is so beautiful. The last thing we need is more condos, stores, or whatever else they would put there.


When I lived in Washington, Boeing bought Longacres, tore it up and put 2 measly buildings there, rediculous.


High end condos in the middle of the hood ... NOTHING is going to lift that neighborhood up. Makes NO sense to me, I guess it's cheap land as far as the L.A. area is concerned ,so they're going to try to turn it into something. I just don't see it.

It's a great track with a ton of history. Easily the most comfortable SoCal venue with the best racing surface and a great track itself.

And on top of that ... Native Diver is either going to be under someone's floorboard or have to be unearthed and removed. What a damn shame. :sad:

[littlelate]

Was teasing you. The pull her head up bit if hard to believe. I would never be able to deal with the public without yelling at them which I know is a surprise to many here;)
Which is why I'd be fired after day 1, lol.

[islandgirl45]

A blog titled Amateurcapper has posted some terrific pictures of Zenyatta and Mike Smith before and after the Vanity, as well as shots of different points in the race. Taken from head-on, there's a great view of how Martin Garcia and St Trinians shuffled Smith and Zenyatta farther out as they rounded the corner.

http://amateurcapper.blogspot.com/2010/06/seventeenzenyatta-stands-alone-after.html

[Hermes]

A blog titled Amateurcapper has posted some terrific pictures of Zenyatta and Mike Smith before and after the Vanity, as well as shots of different points in the race. Taken from head-on, there's a great view of how Martin Garcia and St Trinians shuffled Smith and Zenyatta farther out as they rounded the corner.

http://amateurcapper.blogspot.com/2010/06/seventeenzenyatta-stands-alone-after.html


Awesome photos. Thanks for linking.

[GinTalking]

Hey, off topic for a second ... really, just a second, until someone has an answer ... how come the names of the horses aren't on the saddlecloths for Grade 1s?

[forgotten]

Hey, off topic for a second ... really, just a second, until someone has an answer ... how come the names of the horses aren't on the saddlecloths for Grade 1s?


Sometimes they are, other times not. I've never really thought about why before. Now its bugging me :azn:

[SecretariatForever]

I don't know if Zenyatta can catch St Trinians at a 1 1/16. Especially if St T gets the jump on her again. But at least this time she won't be carrying 9 more pounds. Also, Del Mar is far from Zen's favorite track. We saw how close the Hirsch was last year. Put St T in that race, and Zen would have been beaten.

[SecretariatForever]

Moss has something different to say though...


"I didn't realize how much trips take out of the horse," Moss said. "And it's not just preparing for the race. It's the crowd, and the people that gather around her all the time. We saw that at Oaklawn Park, and we really hadn't thought about it before. You can put up a screen, like John does. But she's still aware there's something going on. There's a lot of energy generated. As far as racing elsewhere, we did think about trying to do other things, and we still might. There's options. I wouldn't pay too much attention to Del Mar being a solid item. There's no commitments there."

http://hovdeyblog.drf.com/hovdeyblog/

[littlelate]

Moss has something different to say though...

http://hovdeyblog.drf.com/hovdeyblog/
I hope so. Why waste a race on a track they concluded she didn't like? Also ST T would need her tail set alight for Z to be unable to catch her. leave the turn, enter the stretch, Zen guns it, she's gone. Her final splits leave little doubt in my mind.

Edit;
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LBkKrZwu8gk/TBXQWTwr_bI/AAAAAAAAARU/gMRYG3YBzfw/s1600/RaceRidingAmCap.JPG

Race riding is one thing, but that looks borderline dangerous. If Z clipped her heels and fell, or they both fell, Martin would have been reprimanded something fierce.

[forgotten]

I don't know if Zenyatta can catch St Trinians at a 1 1/16. Especially if St T gets the jump on her again. But at least this time she won't be carrying 9 more pounds. Also, Del Mar is far from Zen's favorite track. We saw how close the Hirsch was last year. Put St T in that race, and Zen would have been beaten.


I think you have to factor in how she will come out of this race. Like last year, having a narrow victory like this may just sharpen her up. At the very least, Smith won't make the mistake of underestimating St T again.

[susan]

Moss has something different to say though...

http://hovdeyblog.drf.com/hovdeyblog/


Moss did have something to say. but he said it BEFORE the Vanity--even though the article is today's .

Shirreffs said Monday that the Hirsch is being considered and that he is waiting to see how Delmar plays out before making a late decision .

In the Hovdey article Shirreffs indicates that HOY is not important .

Alrighty ...

[littlelate]

Moss did have something to say. but he said it BEFORE the Vanity--even though the article is today's .

Shirreffs said Monday that the Hirsch is being considered and that he is waiting to see how Delmar plays out before making a late decision .

In the Hovdey article Shirreffs indicates that HOY is not important .

Alrighty ...
I've already given up trying to win it and I'm not even part of their team, lol.

[Hermes]

She won't ship again before the BC no matter what Moss says.

[susan]

She won't ship again before the BC no matter what Moss says.


I am beginning to think that ship sailed .

And I think Moss usually lets his trainer train .

[Rick1323]

If I had to pick a next race it would be the Personal Ensign. Mile and a quarter, perfect place to meet Rachel. But I think she stays in So Cal till the BC.

[Hermes]

If I had to pick a next race it would be the Personal Ensign. Mile and a quarter, perfect place to meet Rachel. But I think she stays in So Cal till the BC.


She would be over stimulated at a place like Saratoga. They'd line up for miles to see her in her stall - horsemen, NYRA hacks, fans, friends of the cousin of the brother of the sister in law's nanny who has a house at The Spa;)
I think JS is the one who can't stand the stress of shipping his Big Mare more than the Big Mare that can't stand the stress of shipping.

If he doesn't run her at Del Mar, he will only run her once in the fall at HWP before the BCC.

[forgotten]

Hermes, this is a legit question....What is your beef with JS? You seem to take several potshots at him lately.

[SecretariatForever]

I think you have to factor in how she will come out of this race. Like last year, having a narrow victory like this may just sharpen her up. At the very least, Smith won't make the mistake of underestimating St T again.


Let's hope he doesn't.

[Hermes]

Hermes, this is a legit question....What is your beef with JS? You seem to take several potshots at him lately.


None. I observe and offer an opinion, that's all. I am not kidding about what would happen at accessible and somewhat open Saratoga. That mare is a certifiable rock star. I hardly blame him for not wanting to ship her. I wouldn't be able to take her out of bubble wrap myself. I have said several times that I admire how generous he is with her to the fans, and he is of himself, too. And he has obviously trained and managed his Mare to perfection.

[Rick1323]

She would be over stimulated at a place like Saratoga. They'd line up for miles to see her in her stall - horsemen, NYRA hacks, fans, friends of the cousin of the brother of the sister in law's nanny who has a house at The Spa;)
I think JS is the one who can't stand the stress of shipping his Big Mare more than the Big Mare that can't stand the stress of shipping.

If he doesn't run her at Del Mar, he will only run her once in the fall at HWP before the BCC.


That would be my pick, but I know JS isn't going anywhere near Saratoga. Because it is the race I most want to see her and Rachel meet in. JS has had occasional lapses where he talks about Belmont, but he never mentions Saratoga. She will stay home.....that is if she can hold up to what is coming.

[littlelate]

I don't get how the most impressive race where she had a million excuses to lose and didn't need one of them makes her "tired and done". What does that mean, "if she can hold up to what is coming"? If she can handle QR, who was handled by Summer Bird who was handled by Zen? Or Rail Trip, who was defeated by Richard's Kid and Einstein who were defeated by Zenyatta? I don't get why she's suddenly past her prime and can't beat anyone.

[Ezariah]

You saw RA AND Z race this weekend?????? *jealous*


Yes I did! It was the most amazing and awesome weekend EVER! I think I'm going to crash soon now that I'm home as a result of all the traveling and the humidity in Louisville, BUT it was so worth it!

BTW, I do believe there were bobbleheads left, so perhaps if someone wants one they can contact the gift shop at HP and find out for sure. I saw them moving boxes after the races, but they were also selling other memorabilia, so I can't say for sure how many were left.

[Ezariah]

Did that inflate attendance? What do they call those? Spinners?


Not really, or not easily, because they were watching very closely that people did not get more than one each.

[MonmouthGuy]

I don't get how the most impressive race where she had a million excuses to lose and didn't need one of them makes her "tired and done". What does that mean, "if she can hold up to what is coming"? If she can handle QR, who was handled by Summer Bird who was handled by Zen? Or Rail Trip, who was defeated by Richard's Kid and Einstein who were defeated by Zenyatta? I don't get why she's suddenly past her prime and can't beat anyone.


Here is some suggested reading for you:

http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Book-Fundamentals-Reasoning/dp/0495006726

[islandgirl45]

Here is some suggested reading for you:

http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Book-Fundamentals-Reasoning/dp/0495006726


Hmmm....So, logic and the fundamentals of reasoning say an undefeated, winning Thoroughbred is "tired and done?"

[islandgirl45]

Don't know if anyone has seen this video on YouTube. It's called "The Champion Zenyatta Mini Movie" posted by a Zenyatta fan using lots of shots from the Breeders Cup, and features some other competitors as well. It's well done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l2UXB5qYZA

[SecretariatForever]

Hey MonmouthGuy, been wonder when you'd pop up.. thank you for that weird message by the way. Since you decided not to message me back when I asked "excuse me?" thought I would let it be known what a creep you can be.

Please do not message me anything like that again.

[MonmouthGuy]

Hmmm....So, logic and the fundamentals of reasoning say an undefeated, winning Thoroughbred is "tired and done?"


Her conclusion in all of her posts have nothing to do with her reasoning, similar to your post.

[islandgirl45]

Her conclusion in all of her posts have nothing to do with her reasoning, similar to your post.


littlelate asked a simple question, which you answered with a riddle. I asked a simple question, which you have now answered with nonsense. Lose the snark. It's overrated.

[Roc525]

-whistle- She looks great.


I don't know. I think she looks a little sore. :evil:

[The Tin Man]

littlelate asked a simple question, which you answered with a riddle. I asked a simple question, which you have now answered with nonsense. Lose the snark. It's overrated.


Monmouth tends to be a little grumpy at times ... Right MG??? :wink:

[littlelate]

littlelate asked a simple question, which you answered with a riddle. I asked a simple question, which you have now answered with nonsense. Lose the snark. It's overrated.
Isn't it thought? He must be buds with draynay. He might have forgotten his happy pills though. Glad to see I'm keeping him entertained though.

Here's a video with extensive post-race coverage she's limping SO BAD :undecided:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q5RD54WnGQ

...I just don't see it.

[islandgirl45]

Isn't it thought? He must be buds with draynay. He might have forgotten his happy pills though. Glad to see I'm keeping him entertained though.

Here's a video with extensive post-race coverage she's limping SO BAD :undecided:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q5RD54WnGQ

...I just don't see it.


I watched another video on YouTube where she picked up her back foot and did a small, token cow kick when someone got just a bit too close behind her in the winner's circle.

[littlelate]

I watched another video on YouTube where she picked up her back foot and did a small, token cow kick when someone got just a bit too close behind her in the winner's circle.
I chuckled. Rock on, Zen.

[dr john h]

Hey, off topic for a second ... really, just a second, until someone has an answer ... how come the names of the horses aren't on the saddlecloths for Grade 1s?

yeah, that was seriously bad. on the other hand the horses names were on the HP betting slips..i haven't seen one of those since i was barely out of my teens

[Amateurcapper]

Hey all, new here. Found this message board when searching for where my Amateurcapper blog (http://Amateurcapper blog) was being mentioned. If you enjoy what you see, I'd love to hear from you in the future. Sharing comments/opinions is what makes me and my fellow TBA bloggers tick. I'm glad you enjoyed the pictures.

Regarding her next start, the Hirsch isn't a done deal. If Shirreffs doesn't like the consistency of the Del Mar main track in the afternoon, he's going to either train her up to a BC Classic prep like the Lady's Secret (less of a shot at just 1/16 miles) or they may go east early for the Woodward at Saratoga in early September. That would giver her two months and another race back in Cali, the Goodwood to avoid the turn back in distance, then the BC Classic for a 9f/9f/10f progression.

Look at us, like we have any say in where she goes...but it's fun to try and plan out her future!

[Dusty]

IF they run her at DelMar - I will be VERY surprised and disappointed....Anne said DelMAr - "no way"

[PJMIII]

Zenyatta may see St Trinians again

Sunday evening, several hours after Zenyatta caught a game St Trinians in deep stretch of the $250,000 Vanity Handicap to extend her unbeaten streak to 17, trainer Mike Mitchell sent John Shirreffs a text message.

http://drf.com/news/article/113910.html

[carbonite]

Monmouth tends to be a little grumpy at times ... Right MG??? :wink:

Only after Zenyatta wins.

[GinTalking]

That would be my pick, but I know JS isn't going anywhere near Saratoga. Because it is the race I most want to see her and Rachel meet in. JS has had occasional lapses where he talks about Belmont, but he never mentions Saratoga. She will stay home.....that is if she can hold up to what is coming.


I'm not even sure that Saratoga is one of Rachel's favorite tracks. It may well be that part of the reason she was so cooked last year is because it's not a track she likes all that much, on top of the competition, etc.

Saratoga is one of THOSE tracks ... horses like it or hate it. Not much in between. I don't think they call it the graveyard for nothing.

[ManOTaz]

"We won't really commit until we know what Del Mar is like," Shirreffs said. "When it's loose, racing is very different on it. When it's tight, training is very different on it. We have to hope they find a happy medium for it."

http://www.drf.com/news/article/113910.html

DRF:

If Zenyatta skips Del Mar, she could be sent to the East Coast, although Shirreffs seemed cool to that idea on Monday.

"How many times do you really want to cross the country," he said. The Breeders' Cup Classic at Churchill Downs in November is Zenyatta's long-term goal.

Shirreffs emphasized that a decision on Zenyatta's next start will be made only in the days before the Clement Hirsch. "It will be very late," he said.

St Trinians may start in the Clement Hirsch. She lost her left front shoe in the Vanity. Mitchell thinks it might have happened at the quarter-pole, but declined to make excuses for the half-length loss.


I think to ship "across" the country you at least need to cross the Mississippi. As someone pointed out to me in one of my geographically challenged states of mind... ( :cheesy: ) Hot Springs, AR is not East of the Mississippi. She will likely cross the Mississippi once this year to go to Churchill...so let's not exaggerate her shipping when many other horses ship multiple times all over the country...see Lookin At Lucky, Blind Luck, etc.

As I have said, I doubt she ships. I think they are worried about her weight loss too much...and they are basically looking for any excuse to keep her from shipping.

I just hope and pray she stays healthy enough for the Breeders Cup this year whether its the Distaff or the Classic.

[islandgirl45]

A few people have mentioned this "weight loss" thing as if it is fact. Do we know it is, indeed fact?

I ask because Faith and a couple others said they saw her last work and she looked good.

Given that, can anyone confirm Zen has lost weight?

[ManOTaz]

She did look good. But trainer Ron Ellis offering commentary on TVG said that indeed she had lost some weight, but that was expected with shipping. I believe he and Todd Schrup also noted that it is not always easy to replace weight once it is lost during the racing season.

Despite that he said she was in top form in her workouts and did not think that the weight loss was anything to worry about.

[islandgirl45]

She did look good. But trainer Ron Ellis offering commentary on TVG said that indeed she had lost some weight, but that was expected with shipping. I believe he and Todd Schrup also noted that it is not always easy to replace weight once it is lost during the racing season.

Despite that he said she was in top form in her workouts and did not think that the weight loss was anything to worry about.


I watched the race on NTRA Live, where Randy Moss welcomed everyone to watch Rachel Alexandra go for her 17th win. So much for insightful commentary, right? :wink:

[dr john h]

A few people have mentioned this "weight loss" thing as if it is fact. Do we know it is, indeed fact?

I ask because Faith and a couple others said they saw her last work and she looked good.

Given that, can anyone confirm Zen has lost weight?

well i was able to spend a little time with her and mario while she was grazing the day after the race and i can't imagine how she could look any better. if she has lost weight it sure isn't showing.

the only thing i would say, is that she looked a bit more streamlined at last years BC which makes me wonder if she is fully cranked right now

[GinTalking]

A few people have mentioned this "weight loss" thing as if it is fact. Do we know it is, indeed fact?


I thought Shirreffs even said that in an interview, no? Maybe not "she's lost weight", but something along the lines that she was a little bit lighter. Several people mentioned it and I would think they'd know since they see her all the time.

[dr john h]

the only time i remember hearing her connections talking about any weight loss was shortly after she had her problems from being dehydrated.

[Hermes]

She looked to anyone like she lost a little, but that is not a bad thing, she didn't lose a lot. She is a BIG girl. I don't think she was cranked and her 98% perfect looking is any other horse's 110%;) Lyons and Ellis commented on the weight loss but Ellis, who sees her everyday, said it was a smidge, she is training great, and looked fantastic. He doesn't BS, even on TVG.

On her schedule, I'd bet a lot of money we won't see her go to Saratoga or even east before the BCC. And she will prep in Hirsch and a race at HWP (Oak Tree this year) or just in a race back at HWP in the fall.

[ManOTaz]

She looked to anyone like she lost a little, but that is not a bad thing, she didn't lose a lot. She is a BIG girl. I don't think she was cranked and her 98% perfect looking is any other horse's 110%;) Lyons and Ellis commented on the weight loss but Ellis, who sees her everyday, said it was a smidge, she is training great, and looked fantastic. He doesn't BS, even on TVG.

On her schedule, I'd bet a lot of money we won't see her go to Saratoga or even east before the BCC. And she will prep in Hirsch and a race at HWP (Oak Tree this year) or just in a race back at HWP in the fall.


Thanks for confirming what I thought I heard on TVG. :grin:

[djnorth]

Even though I know everyone's talking about the Clement Hirsch, didn't Shireffs say that Z doesn't like the Del Mar track? Or maybe he doesn't? Or maybe it was just last year she didn't like it?

Or do I just need more sleep again?

:grin:

[TouchOfGrey]

Shireffs said she didn't like to train on it, not that she didn't like to race on it.

:undecided:

[ManOTaz]

Even though I know everyone's talking about the Clement Hirsch, didn't Shireffs say that Z doesn't like the Del Mar track? Or maybe he doesn't? Or maybe it was just last year she didn't like it?

Or do I just need more sleep again?

:grin:


She does not like the surface which is why earlier this year I could swear they suggested that she would not run there.

Last year Shirreffs was quoted as saying that she did not want to train on the surface at Del Mar.

And we know that her closest win EVER was in the Clement Hirsch last year.

She does not like the track.

Despite that, she was run and won there twice...but I think St. Trinians if she handles the track better might have something to say.

Remember the Clement Hirsch is 8.5 furlongs. And perhaps she gets 129 again.Or dare I say it, 130.

I think a wiser choice would be the 10 furlong Personal Ensign. But that would mean shipping and a NY detention barn.

[Ruffian75]

Call me crazy, but why would they run her in a 1 1/16-mile race at a track she doesn't like? The Delaware Handicap, Personal Ensign and a couple others are out there. The DelCap is a $750K race and it is 1 1/4-miles. I am just going to keep plugging it until they rule it out. The DelCap seems like ti should be such a natural next start.

[Hermes]

JS said he won't decide on Hirsch at Del Mar til he sees how the track plays this year. The tighter cooler mornings vs. the hot loose afternoons.
I don't think training on it does her any favors and she will stay at HWP for the most part. But JS seems quite non committal. He doesn't want to ship far or put her on a plane, and he doesn't like Del Mar track for her, so he is deciding between lesser of evils.

[GinTalking]

Call me crazy, but why would they run her in a 1 1/16-mile race at a track she doesn't like? The Delaware Handicap, Personal Ensign and a couple others are out there. The DelCap is a $750K race and it is 1 1/4-miles. I am just going to keep plugging it until they rule it out. The DelCap seems like ti should be such a natural next start.


I don't understand it either. The only thing I can think of is that Shirreffs really REALLY doesn't want to travel. Any one of those races you mentioned is a no brainer for her over a race on a track she doesn't like.

[EquineAnne]

Call me crazy, but why would they run her in a 1 1/16-mile race at a track she doesn't like? The Delaware Handicap, Personal Ensign and a couple others are out there. The DelCap is a $750K race and it is 1 1/4-miles. I am just going to keep plugging it until they rule it out. The DelCap seems like ti should be such a natural next start.


What type of surface is at Delaware?

[Hermes]

What type of surface is at Delaware?


Dirt and supposed to be quirky in that horses like it or they really don't. I have never seen the upside of wasting or risking a ship for this Gr. 2, and apparently after seeing whatever he saw upon her return from OP, neither does JS.

[GinTalking]

It is a quirky surface ... and it can be hotter'n hell ... but California runners have done well at Delaware, in the Oaks and DelCap.

[weatherbird]

I have never seen the upside of wasting or risking a ship for this Gr. 2, and apparently after seeing whatever he saw upon her return from OP, neither does JS.

really?? You were the one who told me somewhere in the previous 250 pages that you thought this was the race they would or should go to. You even told me that DEL wouldn't "weight her out". Oh wait, that was Hermes Redux... never mind.

[weatherbird]

Remember the Clement Hirsch is 8.5 furlongs. And perhaps she gets 129 again.Or dare I say it, 130.


okay, for one final time, this race is no longer a handicap. Del Mar changed it last year and I think we all know what inspired them to do so.

[weatherbird]

actually it was in the Zenyatta won't challenge Rail Trip thread.



Now everyone all together now, what is the race she goes in after the Vanity in July, if not the Gold Cup?




weatherbird wrote:
non age-restricted Grade 1 races going 2 turns on the main track from Independence Day to Labor Day:
July 10 Hollywood Gold Cup
August 1 Ruffian Handicap (F/M)
August 7 Whitney Handicap
August 7 Clement L Hirsch (F/M)
August 28 Pacific Classic
August 29 Personal Ensign (F/M)
September 4 Woodward


Now eliminate the Gr. 1 qualifier and stick with July.

weatherbird wrote:
surely they wouldn't carry 132 at Delaware Park. what did you have in mind?


And you surely don't think any racing secretary would weight her out of the race if they could attract a surefire superstar draw like Z, do you?

[WestCoast]

A few people have mentioned this "weight loss" thing as if it is fact. Do we know it is, indeed fact?

I ask because Faith and a couple others said they saw her last work and she looked good.

Given that, can anyone confirm Zen has lost weight?


I went to see her Monday morning after the Vanity, and my 3rd year vet student friend was with me and her comment was "perfect body condition score." She actually said it unprompted by anyone.

She looked absolutely perfect, and I'm pretty confident in my eye for a horse, but I felt validated when my friend made the comment.

[SecretariatForever]

I went to see her Monday morning after the Vanity, and my 3rd year vet student friend was with me and her comment was "perfect body condition score." She actually said it unprompted by anyone.

She looked absolutely perfect, and I'm pretty confident in my eye for a horse, but I felt validated when my friend made the comment.


good to hear! Thanks!

[Hermes]

really?? You were the one who told me somewhere in the previous 250 pages that you thought this was the race they would or should go to. You even told me that DEL wouldn't "weight her out". Oh wait, that was Hermes Redux... never mind.


While making me wrong is a sport around here. Try again. I said that is where I thought she'd go at the time, and I did, and I am still positive that the racing secretary would WELCOME her, but given that since then JS has expressed major reservations about shipping her, AND no personally I would never understand the attraction of the Del Cap for her career. At all. I also would NEVER have predicted that JS would consider racing her at Del Mar instead.

Weatherbird, if you stuck to posting something that made sense at least once, maybe you could stop worrying about me? Not that I don't enjoy being the center of attention. :evil:

[forgotten]

Weatherbird, if you stuck to posting something that made sense at least once, maybe you could stop worrying about me? Not that I don't enjoy being the center of attention. :evil:


Funny how everybody is dumb and making no sense but you..... :undecided:

[PJMIII]

While making me wrong is a sport around here. Try again. I said that is where I thought she'd go at the time, and I did, and I am still positive that the racing secretary would WELCOME her, but given that since then JS has expressed major reservations about shipping her, AND no personally I would never understand the attraction of the Del Cap for her career. At all. I also would NEVER have predicted that JS would consider racing her at Del Mar instead.

Weatherbird, if you stuck to posting something that made sense at least once, maybe you could stop worrying about me? Not that I don't enjoy being the center of attention. :evil:

You never know, maybe he got Del Mar and Del Cap mixed up. :cool:

[ManOTaz]

actually it was in the Zenyatta won't challenge Rail Trip thread.


Well, my thinking is that they rest her in June and July...

I figure she has raced 3 times...and she will race 3 more...

I think the Woodward/Personal Ensign work well because they are good preps for the Lady Secret which it seems her connections want to enter, but then the Clement Hirsch is within that timeframe too.

Zenyatta will not race more than six times this year.

Six races. Six Grade 1s. Six wins.



Call me crazy, but why would they run her in a 1 1/16-mile race at a track she doesn't like? The Delaware Handicap, Personal Ensign and a couple others are out there. The DelCap is a $750K race and it is 1 1/4-miles. I am just going to keep plugging it until they rule it out. The DelCap seems like ti should be such a natural next start.


Unless there is a mid-year upgrade of the race to a Grade I she will not run in it. Otherwise I think she might. Its a nice track. The fans are not too over the top. :grin:



I don't understand it either. The only thing I can think of is that Shirreffs really REALLY doesn't want to travel. Any one of those races you mentioned is a no brainer for her over a race on a track she doesn't like.


BINGO...

We have a winner!!!!!

Don't know if it is because of its impact on his horse or himself...but it is what it is. :azn:

[Hermes]

You never know, maybe he got Del Mar and Del Cap mixed up. :cool:


He? Who?

I said in that original post that I thought she would look at Delaware Handicap at Delaware Park, which would require her to ship, after the Vanity. They clearly were not going to HWGC. I did not think JS would opt to race her at Del Mar in August as an alternative.

[weatherbird]

While making me wrong is a sport around here. Try again. I said that is where I thought she'd go at the time, and I did, and I am still positive that the racing secretary would WELCOME her, but given that since then JS has expressed major reservations about shipping her, AND no personally I would never understand the attraction of the Del Cap for her career. At all. I also would NEVER have predicted that JS would consider racing her at Del Mar instead.

Weatherbird, if you stuck to posting something that made sense at least once, maybe you could stop worrying about me? Not that I don't enjoy being the center of attention. :evil:


it's interesting that, at the time, you never said a word about what a bad idea it would be. I brought up 7 possible targets between The Vanity and Labor Day weekend, none of which were in Delaware. You were putting up the Delaware Handicap as the more likely target without mentioning what a mistake it would be. As for "NEVER" predicting that they might consider Del Mar (which I did), I think it's obvious that they are considering Del Mar.

[imported_admin]

Isn't it thought? He must be buds with draynay. He might have forgotten his happy pills though. Glad to see I'm keeping him entertained though.

Here's a video with extensive post-race coverage she's limping SO BAD :undecided:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q5RD54WnGQ

...I just don't see it.


Dray hasn't even been posting, so please lay off -- we shouldn't be talking about other forum members anyway, at least not in any negative sense, only talking to them.

[littlelate]

Dray hasn't even been posting, so please lay off -- we shouldn't be talking about other forum members anyway, at least not in any negative sense, only talking to them.
My apologies, Vic. It was a tasteless shot.

[imported_admin]

Dirt and supposed to be quirky in that horses like it or they really don't. I have never seen the upside of wasting or risking a ship for this Gr. 2, and apparently after seeing whatever he saw upon her return from OP, neither does JS.


For a supposed quirky surface, we've never had a horse in dozens and dozens who didn't like it.

[Hermes]

it's interesting that, at the time, you never said a word about what a bad idea it would be. I brought up 7 possible targets between The Vanity and Labor Day weekend, none of which were in Delaware. You were putting up the Delaware Handicap as the more likely target without mentioning what a mistake it would be. As for "NEVER" predicting that they might consider Del Mar (which I did), I think it's obvious that they are considering Del Mar.


Are you capable of having a discussion with out worrying if you are right (and therefore someone else is wrong?) I did not say "bad idea" or a "mistake" W T F is wrong with you? I said it did not seem worthwhile for her. It will not gain her anything for HOY except the purse. If she is being managed more carefully now, and clearly she is, and they don't want to ship, then why go there?

Bully for you if you thought she would race at Del Mar. I didn't. Still not sure she will. OTOH, you seem to think it is a possibility for Rachel, too.

[forgotten]

Are you capable of having a discussion with out worrying if you are right (and therefore someone else is wrong?)

http://ganjataz.com/general-bollocks/images/by-GT/forum-shitz/pot-kettle-black.jpg

[Hermes]

WB, I see in the original exchange I was trying to have a discussion with you and answer your query about two turn races, and include the Del Cap (except for grade.) My apology. Won't happen again.

Pot, this isn't even an incident of right v wrong. At all. I try to play nice, and stop the tone, and then I deal with pre teens like you and WB, who just drag the board down, and pick fights with me because you are clearly insecure or bored. That's fine. But there has never been a darker shade of black on a pot at TBC than the one you wear.

[weatherbird]

Bully for you if you thought she would race at Del Mar. I didn't. Still not sure she will. OTOH, you seem to think it is a possibility for Rachel, too.
actually, I believe it's an impossibility that Rachel Alexandra goes to Del Mar. I do believe, however, that if JS called their bluff, that RA would hold a number of advantages considering the distance & the surface. Just because Jackson whines about synthetic doesn't mean the filly wouldn't perform over it. I think she would be long gone and, as I mentioned previously, would be a whole lot more filly to deal with than Anabaa's Creation down the stretch.

[forgotten]

Pot, this isn't even an incident of right v wrong. At all. I try to play nice, and stop the tone, and then I deal with pre teens like you and WB, who just drag the board down, and pick fights with me because you are clearly insecure or bored. That's fine. But there has never been a darker shade of black on a pot at TBC than the one you wear.


Thankfully I really look great in black...everybody says so. :grin:

I just wish you were capable of having a discussion or conversation without talking down or calling names. It really is ok to have different opinons and view points and you might want to consider that other people do actually work in the race industry and know a thing or two that maybe you don't.

[The Tin Man]

actually, I believe it's an impossibility that Rachel Alexandra goes to Del Mar. I do believe, however, that if JS called their bluff, that RA would hold a number of advantages considering the distance & the surface. Just because Jackson whines about synthetic doesn't mean the filly wouldn't perform over it. I think she would be long gone and, as I mentioned previously, would be a whole lot more filly to deal with than Anabaa's Creation down the stretch.


Rachel has run and won on the synthetics at Keeneland before and is in fact, undefeated on synthetics ... 1 and 0!! :wink:

Also ... Look up Anabaa's Creations pedigree query sometimes ... She a good horse ... Not the pack mule that eveybody seems to think she is. Not saying she's a Zenyatta(who is?) ... But a pretty good horse ... A stakes horse for sure ... albeit a Grade 2 or 3 type I would say.

The reason you haven't heard of her since is because she only ran ONE more race.

I'm actually defending Anabaa's Creation here. The poor horse gets a bum rap. She was much better than people think.

Ahhhhh ... What the heck ... I'll add her info ... 14 Starts, 3 Wins, 2 Places, 4 Shows Career Earnings: $324,366

That's 9 or 14 in the money. Primarily stakes races too!

At 2:

Won: Prix Isonomy
At 3:

3rd: Prix Saint-Alary (FR-G1), Prix Du Prince Dorange (FR-G3)
At 4:

2nd: Prix Andre Baboin (FR-G3)
3rd: Prix De Boulogne

At 5:

2nd: Clement L. Hirsch Handicap G1.


http://www.pedigreequery.com/anabaas+creation

[islandgirl45]

And now for something completely different...

DRF columnist Steven Crist has an interesting blog today. It leads off with...
"Last weekend's four big nine-furlong stakes races were won by four of the five very early favorites for the Breeders' Cup Classic a mere 4 1/2 months away. While Rachel Alexandra's Fleur de Lis and Rail Trip's Californian received better final-time Beyer Speed Figures (both got 108's) than Zenyatta's Vanity (103) and Blame's Stephen Foster (102), the latter two finished significantly faster and into softer paces...

And this paragraph...
"Zenyatta's victory was perhaps the most dramatic in her incomparable career, and no mathematical analysis can fully reflect her accomplishments. Nor do final-time speed figures account for her doing whatever she must to win, even when losing ground and conceding weight to her opponents. Only the most literal-minded blockhead would say that Saturday's races show that if Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta squared off at nine furlongs, Zenyatta would come up two lengths short..."

As a point of interest, his chart shows Zenyatta's final split of 11.60 is the fastest between Blame, Rachel, Rail Trip and Quality Road. http://cristblog.drf.com/crist/

Another quick question, did someone here say the Ruffian will be run this year at 1-1/8 miles? Is it a weight for age deal?

[Hermes]

Thankfully I really look great in black...everybody says so. :grin:

I just wish you were capable of having a discussion or conversation without talking down or calling names. It really is ok to have different opinons and view points and you might want to consider that other people do actually work in the race industry and know a thing or two that maybe you don't.


It is a slimming color;)

You bait me every chance you get, and you are bummed when I answer or post anything without a condescending tone. I know plenty here work in the industry, and love their opinions and insights. I like a lot of posters here. As other posters have pointed out to you I do have sane, even toned, and nice exchanges with many here. Some get me, some don't. I know that and I know my tone comes off as sarcastic so often that I get blamed for it even when it is not.

But you need to take a good look at your pot, 'cause I know many here are tired of our exchanges and you are the one who is pursuing it. I may or may not think you have a clue when you post the things you do, but you shouldn't care so much what I think. You should move along. And hope for that Lane's End announcement before Saratoga;)

[weatherbird]

Another quick question, did someone here say the Ruffian will be run this year at 1-1/8 miles? Is it a weight for age deal?


NYRA felt they had one too many races in the F/M division and decided to eliminate one of the two races scheduled for the Belmont fall meet. But, a funny thing happened on the way: the Go For Wand was downgraded to G2 status. so, NYRA eliminated the GFW (instead of the Ruffian) and simply moved the Ruffian to the GFW's previous spot on the calendar. It is the same conditions as the GFW (a 9 furlong handicap early at the Saratoga meeting) but, this way, it can be run as a G1 instead.

[Rick1323]

All this pot talk.....I have the munchies.

[forgotten]

"Zenyatta's victory was perhaps the most dramatic in her incomparable career, and no mathematical analysis can fully reflect her accomplishments. Nor do final-time speed figures account for her doing whatever she must to win, even when losing ground and conceding weight to her opponents. Only the most literal-minded blockhead would say that Saturday's races show that if Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta squared off at nine furlongs, Zenyatta would come up two lengths short..."

As a point of interest, his chart shows Zenyatta's final split of 11.60 is the fastest between Blame, Rachel, Rail Trip and Quality Road. color]
:azn: :azn: :azn:



It is a slimming color;)

You bait me every chance you get, and you are bummed when I answer or post anything without a condescending tone. I know plenty here work in the industry, and love their opinions and insights. I like a lot of posters here. As other posters have pointed out to you I do have sane, even toned, and nice exchanges with many here. Some get me, some don't. I know that and I know my tone comes off as sarcastic so often that I get blamed for it even when it is not.

But you need to take a good look at your pot, 'cause I know many here are tired of our exchanges and you are the one who is pursuing it. I may or may not think you have a clue when you post the things you do, but you shouldn't care so much what I think. You should move along. And hope for that Lane's End announcement before Saratoga;)
You are the one that keeps bringing up the same old crap over and over...except you have twisted things around. Please don't feel the need to hide behind the mysterious `we' and `everyone', just speak for yourself. I'm assuming most of us are over 21 yrs old here.....at least all the ones behaving badly most of the time....


BTW with the amount of time you spend online.....you may want to try wearing black more often ;)

[Hermes]

I wear black most days because I am so evil forgotten, wouldn't you know that? And you might want to ask yourself what happened to that 3D life of yours that has caused you to spend so much time here clocking my time here?

Moving back to the topic, Crist got Rachel's final split wrong, as a typo. It was 12.88 seconds.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/CD061210USA6.pdf

[forgotten]

You may notice by my stats I am rarely here in the mornings or at feed time......

[Hermes]

You may notice by my stats I am rarely here in the mornings or at feed time......


That's only because I am not here in the morning. We all know that. On a serious note, ya know, many here have horsies and care for them, right? It is not a badge of honor, and a horse is relatively color blind so even wearing black you would still look like a load to him;)

[forgotten]

How is that post anything other than rude and ignorant? Was that really called for? But since it is sooooo important to your fragile ego...please take the last word in this thread. I have no desire to pollute it any further with off topic snipings other than to point out your BS and inconsistencies when they arise....

[Hermes]

How is that post anything other than rude and ignorant? Was that really called for? But since it is sooooo important to your fragile ego...please take the last word in this thread. I have no desire to pollute it any further with off topic snipings other than to point out your BS and inconsistencies when they arise....


Undefeated Hypocrisy. In bred 2 x2 to forgotten. So I win?

[carbonite]

And now for something completely different...

DRF columnist Steven Crist has an interesting blog today. It leads off with... [snip]

And this paragraph...
Only the most literal-minded blockhead would say that Saturday's races show that if Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta squared off at nine furlongs, Zenyatta would come up two lengths short..."

Someone's been reading about the clock not lying . . .

[islandgirl45]

NYRA felt they had one too many races in the F/M division and decided to eliminate one of the two races scheduled for the Belmont fall meet. But, a funny thing happened on the way: the Go For Wand was downgraded to G2 status. so, NYRA eliminated the GFW (instead of the Ruffian) and simply moved the Ruffian to the GFW's previous spot on the calendar. It is the same conditions as the GFW (a 9 furlong handicap early at the Saratoga meeting) but, this way, it can be run as a G1 instead.

Is it a weight for age thing, or would it be the same handicap situation that gave Zenyatta 129 pounds for the Vanity?

[Spahny]

Someone's been reading about the clock not lying . . .


I prefer the Classic Converse Beyer gap interpretations. I am constructing a best of scrapbook of those along with other classics such as the lost ground calculations for the 3 wide trip and, new this season, the dandy study of internal fraction comparisons of claiming level sprint races to graded stake routes. All in the assumption that one this will all be a pleasant memory I will look back on fondly. Question mark...

[Reposmoral]

I promised I'd come back and share the videos I took while at the Vanity this weekend. What an incredible day! Enjoy!

P.S. I apologize ahead of time for the loud hysterical screaming during the race :)

Zenyatta enters the paddock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kANuj8vks48

Zardana in the paddock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGBZ9mk318E

Zardana being saddled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ8FmuDwGE4

Zenyatta in the paddock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpBiTvsAY0A

Zenyatta in the paddock part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIFH49VHgLI

Zenyatta in the post parade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFDmnajfKBY

Zenyatta wins!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-LIiLLMGzw

Zenyatta in the winner's circle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ic3OwSHCe8

[weatherbird]

Is it a weight for age thing, or would it be the same handicap situation that gave Zenyatta 129 pounds for the Vanity?

when I wrote "handicap", I meant handicap. I hope they nominate Zenyatta just to get the NYRA racing secretary on record with weight assignments. I suppose he could keep Big Z on 129 considering her narrow margin on Sunday. Rachel Alexandra would probably pick up a couple off her CD win, getting in at 126. This is one reason this race won't happen. The Z camp would only agree to the race at equal weights, which would either require Zenyatta to drop weight (off a winning streak) or to add 5 pounds to Rachel.

[Dusty]

I promised I'd come back and share the videos I took while at the Vanity this weekend. What an incredible day! Enjoy!

P.S. I apologize ahead of time for the loud hysterical screaming during the race :)

Zenyatta enters the paddock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kANuj8vks48

Zardana in the paddock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGBZ9mk318E

Zardana being saddled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ8FmuDwGE4

Zenyatta in the paddock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpBiTvsAY0A

Zenyatta in the paddock part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIFH49VHgLI

Zenyatta in the post parade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFDmnajfKBY

Zenyatta wins!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-LIiLLMGzw

Zenyatta in the winner's circle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ic3OwSHCe8


ALL I can say is WOW - those are fabulous! You must have been right below me! Thank you thank you for sharing!

[ManOTaz]

Zenyatta News

Scott on racing: Zenyatta at 17
Tuesday, June 15, 2010
http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2010/06/15/sports/doc4c16d71e69c25407771004.txt

By JEFF SCOTT
From Off the Pace

Most people who were following racing in 1996 remember the excitement they felt as August 10 approached. That was the day Cigar would attempt to win his 17th consecutive race in the Pacific Classic, eclipsing the modern American record held by the mighty Citation.

In order to accomplish the feat, Cigar would have to outrun a tough and classy field of West Coast horses that included Siphon, Dare and Go, Tinners Way and Dramatic Gold, who had made Cigar work in the Arlington Citation Challenge four weeks before. Soul of the Matter would have been there, too, if he hadn?t suffered a career-ending injury days before the race.

We all know what happened. Unable to overcome the combined efforts of Dare and Go, Siphon and the southern California jockey colony, Cigar went down to defeat before a record Del Mar crowd of 44,181.

Last Sunday, Zenyatta accomplished what Cigar could not, winning her 17th straight race in heart-stopping fashion to remain undefeated for her career. The field she faced in the Vanity Handicap was not nearly as strong as the one Cigar faced 14 years ago. It did include, however, St Trinians, a 5-year-old British-bred mare who appeared to be coming into the race in top form. Bettors, perhaps influenced by rumors that Zenyatta had not fully recovered from her trip to Arkansas in April, liked St Trinians? chances enough to pound her down to a surprising 2-1 in late wagering.

Tuesday, June 15, 2010
Zenyatta may see St Trinians again

By Steve Andersen
Daily Racing Form
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=5289575&type=story

INGLEWOOD, Calif. - Sunday evening, several hours after Zenyatta caught a game St Trinians in deep stretch of the $250,000 Vanity Handicap to extend her unbeaten streak to 17, trainer Mike Mitchell sent John Shirreffs a text message.

Mitchell's St Trinians had given Zenyatta a scare, and Mitchell wanted to offer congratulations, with a friendly piece of advice at the end.

"I think it's time Zenyatta left California," he wrote.

Mitchell will get his wish, but probably not as soon as he would like.

Monday, both Zenyatta and St Trinians emerged from the Grade 1 Vanity in excellent condition, their trainers said. The focus now shifts to a possible rematch in the $300,000 Clement Hirsch Stakes over 1 1/16 miles at Del Mar on Aug. 7, a race that Zenyatta won in both 2008 and 2009 for her seventh and 12th career wins.

Shirreffs was hesitant to fully commit Zenyatta to the Grade 1 Clement Hirsch on Monday, although her appearance is considered a strong possibility. The decision will be made by Shirreffs, owners Jerry and Ann Moss, and Dottie Ingordo-Shirreffs, who is the trainer's wife and the racing manager for the Mosses.

Shirreffs emphasized that a decision on Zenyatta's next start will be made only in the days before the Clement Hirsch. "It will be very late," he said.

St Trinians may start in the Clement Hirsch. She lost her left front shoe in the Vanity. Mitchell thinks it might have happened at the quarter-pole, but declined to make excuses for the half-length loss.

"I don't want it to sound like I would have won," he said. "A lot of times they're sore on that foot, but she jogged well on it [Monday]."

[Sheepish]

I agree that it might not have made a difference, but it's darn impressive that St Trinians dug in like she did in spite of losing a shoe. I really like this mare.

[ManOTaz]

I agree that it might not have made a difference, but it's darn impressive that St Trinians dug in like she did in spite of losing a shoe. I really like this mare.


Indeed. I still believe her being in the Vanity field made it stronger than the field that Rail Trip faced in the Californian. :cool:

[Noble]

After almost three days looking at the Zenyatta bobblehead on top of my DVD player/TV, I must say the looks is actually kinda growing on me. I still think my Slew and Bid one looks better, but it isn't that bad. Not as hideous as I thought it looked in pictures. They still could have done a better job, but I will take it anyway! It looks good in certain angles. I just wished her head was attached closer to her body because it looks like she has a lollipop head. Not bad for $8.

Since I was one of the fortunate 12K people who attended and witnessing an exciting and historic race, I feel the bobblehead is like a "trophy" of her for us just being there. Our "Oscar" of Zenyatta's 17th winning performance. Pretty cool souvenir and momento of her.

[PJMIII]

He? Who?

I said in that original post that I thought she would look at Delaware Handicap at Delaware Park, which would require her to ship, after the Vanity. They clearly were not going to HWGC. I did not think JS would opt to race her at Del Mar in August as an alternative.

I was referring to JS. I was trying lighten things up a little. My bad.

[Hermes]

I was referring to JS. I was trying lighten things up a little. My bad.


Ah. No problem. I will try that, too;)

[GinTalking]

I think the people bobbleheads look more like their subject than the horsey ones. I have an Xtra Heat bobblehead and it's safe to say it probably could be just about any smallish bay horse. She has kind of a sweet little face, but gosh, where's her signature curly mane? :wink:

[Noble]

Those were some great videos you shared. I stood opposite of where you were standing on the left side of that TVG booth where that aisle pathway is.

In 2010 so far, my routine for Z is like this... First, I don't think too much of her race days leading up to it. Don't want to overanalyze. Then I either watch it live or on TV and my reaction is always with a smile. The last three times I saw her live (BCC, SM, Vanity), I jumped and screamed a loud WOO-HOO! Another thunderous applause for The Queen. Then I leave a comment on here. Read whatever articles from Google News and then rewatch whatever replays specifically for her last race. Even the walk ring vids. My uncle who barely started following horse racing about 3-4 years ago admits he loves watching her race. His fav horses all-time would be Big Brown and Barbaro because he loves bays, but sometimes out of the blue would ask me when Zenyatta is racing again? When he wagers, he basically plays a Pick 3 like a Daily Double because she is an easy single. He wants to reach out to some more longshots in the other two legs. I would wager his bets at the track and then we would high-five when I see him again a day or two later as to say, Damn she is good! Money in the bank. Our Lady Luck. Everytime I leave the track, I go home a winner and not just the race she won. When I rewatch the replays, I like to read all the lover/hater comments, any Haskin thoughts, and then shake my head telling myself she did it again. Even after a few days and some reflection, you just wakeup feeling good. We can't stop thinking or wanting to talk about her after every race, and we all wonder what is next...?


Three days since I saw the Vanity and here I am still smiling. Obsession grows after the result with realistic expectations prior. Her career or streak will come to an end eventually (whichever comes first), but it has been one helluva ride. She has most of my favorite highlights for most of this year just following the sport again. That's what happens when she captures your heart. My enjoyment from this sport this year just wouldn't be the same without her.

So happy Zen and Goldi are still around. Let's pray for them to get a BC THREEPEAT.

Tomorrow, just do what I do - Google News Zenyatta, read whatever good/bad stuff about her, and rewatch her last race with a smile like she always brings... ;)

[forgotten]

I think the people bobbleheads look more like their subject than the horsey ones. I have an Xtra Heat bobblehead and it's safe to say it probably could be just about any smallish bay horse. She has kind of a sweet little face, but gosh, where's her signature curly mane? :wink:
I was given a Secretariat one a few years ago that is very cute. The Zenyatta one looks a bit creepy to me. I still want one though :azn:

[luvsgeldings]

noble, my husband and i were there too for her 17th... and its funny, we do the same thing, just start smiling again when we think about the day and her race - geez it was such fun and the happy feeling when she won was just priceless.

some have mentioned the lack of names on the saddlecloths - its not the first time for hollywood park - big pet peeve with my husband and i when the names aren't on the cloths for big races at that place - but come on - the vanity was a grade 1, zen was going for something historical... and hollywood park is too cheap to put names on 6 saddlecloths? ridiculous!

john sherriffs enjoys seeing people get so excited over zenyatta - while zen was walking around and posing in the paddock area, he just kept smiling and smiling - he obviously loves that his big star gives so many people a thrill - and its clear that he appreciates how much she is loved - but for a trainer going for a record win, you would never have known... he was calm and happy and so relaxed before the race - and yes, he always acknowledged anyone wishing him good luck - i think he is a very dear man.

[luvsgeldings]

oh and yeah, there were boxes and boxes of bobble's left after the race - wonder what the plan is for them - they should sell them and give the money to a horse charity - i bought a zen jersey that day - the money goes to old friends (love that!) - they could do the same with the bobble's - give the money to old friends or another horse retirement farm.

[GinTalking]

oh and yeah, there were boxes and boxes of bobble's left after the race - wonder what the plan is for them - they should sell them and give the money to a horse charity - i bought a zen jersey that day - the money goes to old friends (love that!) - they could do the same with the bobble's - give the money to old friends or another horse retirement farm.


Verrrrry interesting. Now go to ebay and do a search for Zenyatta bobblehead and you'll see how crazy people are. You'll find various combinations of the bobblehead, with a ticket, with a program, etc., but why pay $30 or $50 or higher for something that is still available. Suckas.

Good idea about the horse charities. Or they can save them for another retirement party.

[JT Dancer]

Verrrrry interesting. Now go to ebay and do a search for Zenyatta bobblehead and you'll see how crazy people are. You'll find various combinations of the bobblehead, with a ticket, with a program, etc., but why pay $30 or $50 or higher for something that is still available. Suckas.

Good idea about the horse charities. Or they can save them for another retirement party.

As we were leaving HP on Sunday, we noticed two large boxes of unopened bobblehead containers; they were right next the volunteers of TROTT who were breaking down their booth. I assumed (but I may be wrong) that at least some of the leftover bobbleheads were given to that horse charity.

[Hermes]

Del Mar is planning a glass set giveaway promo on Hirsch Day whether she runs or not - all the better if she does. They can give away the left over bobbles there.

[The Tin Man]

Del Mar is planning a glass set giveaway promo on Hirsch Day whether she runs or not - all the better if she does. They can give away the left over bobbles there.


If they do ... I'll be picking up a bobblehead too! :wink:

[PJMIII]

HAIL TO THE QUEEN

Despite the passage of time, the racing community can not help but recall the reason Rachel Alexandra was voted Horse of the Year over Zenyatta last year (it wasn't even close)
was because the voters were impressed that Rachel became the first filly or mare to win the Woodward Stakes.

http://www.johnpiesen.com/

[JT Dancer]

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/byk-disses-zenyatta/comment-page-1/#comment-31220

[Kurenai]

Wow.... I think I know who Draynay is now. Rofl

[Liztannica]

John Shirreffs posted a new video of Zenyatta last night

http://www.youtube.com/user/jonshfs05

[SecretariatForever]

John Shirreffs posted a new video of Zenyatta last night

http://www.youtube.com/user/jonshfs05



Wow, she looked ready to go when she was schooling! She looked great the morning after the race too!! That was so cute when she gave her farrier Tom a kiss.

She is the definition of regal.

[EquineAnne]

Wow, she looked ready to go when she was schooling! She looked great the morning after the race too!! That was so cute when she gave her farrier Tom a kiss.

She is the definition of regal.


what does schooling entail? Schooling for what exactly? She's not an inexperienced horse. I don't get it.

[Hermes]

what does schooling entail? Schooling for what exactly? She's not an inexperienced horse. I don't get it.


Most racehorses school in the paddock days before a race, as they are high strung mostly stall bound athletes and all horses benefit from routine and experience with an environment. To school is to walk around the paddock - sometimes be saddled and walked around tacked - other times not - depending on the horse and trainer. In her case, you wouldn't want to get her too worked up by simulating all race day activity.

[GinTalking]

what does schooling entail? Schooling for what exactly? She's not an inexperienced horse. I don't get it.


It's a practice that seems wildly overdone IMO. The only horses who ever school are nutcases and the top level horses. Most horses do not school. It's really rare to ever see a horse school at Laurel, for instance.

If all it is is give humans something to do with their afternoons, then take them out and let them graze somewhere. Putting a chain over a horse's gum to walk a quarter mile (or more) to a paddock and then either stand or walk around for 20 minutes doesn't sound too soothing to me at all.

It makes sense for a horse who really throws a fit in the paddock. Keep doing it, over and over again. But what's the purpose when a horse has run 10, 20 or 30 times and has no paddock or race day issues ... and let's face it, most don't have any.

The one time where it seems to make some sense is when horses and people have traveled (Classic races, BC, etc.) and there's absolutely nothing else for them to do during the day. They have only one or two horses to care for. They get bored so why not take the horse out and walk it to the paddock. I'll give them the boredom factor.

[Reposmoral]

Just to expand on what Hermes said about why even experienced horses need paddock schooling...

Horses are (cliche coming) creatures of habit. A young, inexperienced horse needs paddock schooling before race day so they can be as comfortable and familiar with the paddock/saddling routine as possible, for obvious reasons--they don't want the horse to be so nervous with the crowd, environment, etc as to wash out and hurt their chances. They want the horses comfortable and focused to preserve their energy.

Horses are also not stupid. Experienced horses still need paddock schooling precisely because they know *exactly* what the paddock preparations/routine means--RACE TIME! So, to keep them "guessing" and calm as possible, I imagine they visit the paddock before race day so the horse doesn't associate the paddock ONLY with then going to the track to race. Sometimes we go to the paddock to race, sometimes to just walk around for awhile and then head back to the barn.

That said, I'm sure some horses can tell the difference between schooling and the "real thing".

[GinTalking]

A young, inexperienced horse needs paddock schooling before race day so they can be as comfortable and familiar with the paddock/saddling routine as possible, for obvious reasons--they don't want the horse to be so nervous with the crowd, environment, etc as to wash out and hurt their chances. They want the horses comfortable and focused to preserve their energy.


Probably the calmest a horse will ever be is the day they make their first trip to the post. It's the SECOND time that you'll see horses act up, IF they are going to act up. But the first time, they don't have a clue what is going to happen and they're usually pretty good. At least all the ones I've walked over with for their first starts are usually good. Can't think of any of mine who acted up in the paddock at all, never mind for their first start ... and they are shipping on top of everything else.

There are horses who are always bad in the paddock. What's really funny is that some Preakness trainers would rather put their horses in the Pimlico paddock than saddle on the turf course. But there are quite a few local trainers who will request to saddle some of their horses outside on the track because that paddock tends to get horses upset. It's closed in, people are above the horses on one side and beside them for a few feet in two places on the other side so it's a confining space. Meanwhile the horses who saddle on the turf course never seem to get upset at all. I think it gives them something to occupy their minds ... there's stuff to look at.

[EquineAnne]

Thanks for the information.

[Liztannica]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=plonk_jeremy&id=5298022

[Came Home]

So, Zenyatta has traveled more miles then Rachel. Very interesting...

[GinTalking]

"Of Zenyatta's 17 starts, nine have come when she's been able to walk out of her current home stall to the paddock. Rachel Alexandra has made home-court starts in 12 of 17 lifetime starts."

The hole in these stats is that for many of Zenyatta's starts, she traveled about 25 miles from Hollywood to Santa Anita which qualifies as not walking from her stall to the paddock (even though Shirreffs has a barn at Santa Anita), but it's hardly the same as a ship from Churchill to Pimlico and back home again, or to Monmouth from Saratoga. Mileage alone doesn't really tell the whole truth, the entire truth.

It's the equivalent of what ALL horses in Maryland do when they run at Pimlico in the Spring. Everybody ships, but it's not the same as going to Colonial, Philly Park or Monmouth. In fact, these horses aren't going into their own barns, to their own stalls, but to a receiving barn instead ... where all runners are in one barn. There is no quiet seclusion of your own barn ... the loudspeaker blares all day long, horses come and go, there is always someone cooling out or .

[EquineAnne]

"Of Zenyatta's 17 starts, nine have come when she's been able to walk out of her current home stall to the paddock. Rachel Alexandra has made home-court starts in 12 of 17 lifetime starts."

The hole in these stats is that for many of Zenyatta's starts, she traveled about 25 miles from Hollywood to Santa Anita which qualifies as not walking from her stall to the paddock (even though Shirreffs has a barn at Santa Anita), but it's hardly the same as a ship from Churchill to Pimlico and back home again, or to Monmouth from Saratoga. Mileage alone doesn't really tell the whole truth, the entire truth.

It's the equivalent of what ALL horses in Maryland do when they run at Pimlico in the Spring. Everybody ships, but it's not the same as going to Colonial, Philly Park or Monmouth. In fact, these horses aren't going into their own barns, to their own stalls, but to a receiving barn instead ... where all runners are in one barn. There is no quiet seclusion of your own barn ... the loudspeaker blares all day long, horses come and go, there is always someone cooling out or .



Didn't the article say that the majority of Zen's miles come from her 2 round trips to Oaklawn?

[PJMIII]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=plonk_jeremy&id=5298022

Neat article. Thanks for sharing.

[ManOTaz]

"Of Zenyatta's 17 starts, nine have come when she's been able to walk out of her current home stall to the paddock. Rachel Alexandra has made home-court starts in 12 of 17 lifetime starts."

The hole in these stats is that for many of Zenyatta's starts, she traveled about 25 miles from Hollywood to Santa Anita which qualifies as not walking from her stall to the paddock (even though Shirreffs has a barn at Santa Anita), but it's hardly the same as a ship from Churchill to Pimlico and back home again, or to Monmouth from Saratoga. Mileage alone doesn't really tell the whole truth, the entire truth.

It's the equivalent of what ALL horses in Maryland do when they run at Pimlico in the Spring. Everybody ships, but it's not the same as going to Colonial, Philly Park or Monmouth. In fact, these horses aren't going into their own barns, to their own stalls, but to a receiving barn instead ... where all runners are in one barn. There is no quiet seclusion of your own barn ... the loudspeaker blares all day long, horses come and go, there is always someone cooling out or .


gin ---

Last year I did the mileage of the ships...and Rachel outshipped Zenyatta by hundreds of miles...teh fact that there could be any argument...in this regard is just silly... :azn:

[dr john h]

from a racing blog..via equidaily

The Genius of Zenyatta: Lessons on Character, Kindness, and Comparisons in Racing. | THE SATURDAY POST
http://thesaturdaypost.org/blog/2010/06/17/the-genius-of-zenyatta-lessons-on-character-kindness-and-comparisons-in-racing/

[GinTalking]

Didn't the article say that the majority of Zen's miles come from her 2 round trips to Oaklawn?


Yes, it did. I was simply making an observation about the times when she didn't walk out of her stall.

[carbonite]

Didn't the article say that the majority of Zen's miles come from her 2 round trips to Oaklawn?

Yes. In fact, it also showed that the two round-trips to Oaklawn by themselves constitute more travel than Rachel has had in her career.

There is absolutely no way that Zenyatta--as talented as she is--will ever overcome the undeniable reality that California is further away from New York than a lot of people like. Oddly enough, this actually enters into some people's evaluation of ability.

[Codysmom55]

gin ---

Last year I did the mileage of the ships...and Rachel outshipped Zenyatta by hundreds of miles...teh fact that there could be any argument...in this regard is just silly... :azn:


Just can't help yourself, can you?

Why don't you do a comparison of who sticks their tongue out furtherest? Whose is longest? Widest? Pinkest? Thickest? How many times they wag it in a race. What color the tongue tie is and why one is better than the other. Why not do a comparison of how many times each mare swishes her tail during a race? In the post parade, loading in the gate, so many possibilities. Let's have a comparison of how many times each mare blinks her eyes. I know you can do it.

[EquineAnne]

I have a question. Let's say Zenyatta goes to the BC at Churchill in November. She runs in the Classic and wins. QR also runs and all the other males folks think are better than her. Rachel may or may not run. Will Zenyatta win HOY...even if she does NOT face any males from now until that day? Will any of the folks that think she's not all that change their opinion of her? I'm just curious.

[EquineAnne]

Just can't help yourself, can you?

Why don't you do a comparison of who sticks their tongue out furtherest? Whose is longest? Widest? Pinkest? Thickest? How many times they wag it in a race. What color the tongue tie is and why one is better than the other. Why not do a comparison of how many times each mare swishes her tail during a race? In the post parade, loading in the gate, so many possibilities. Let's have a comparison of how many times each mare blinks her eyes. I know you can do it.


LOL.

[littlelate]

I have a question. Let's say Zenyatta goes to the BC at Churchill in November. She runs in the Classic and wins. QR also runs and all the other males folks think are better than her. Rachel may or may not run. Will Zenyatta win HOY...even if she does NOT face any males from now until that day? Will any of the folks that think she's not all that change their opinion of her? I'm just curious.
No. Should she? Yes. But you asked if she would. She won't unless QR, RT, Blame, and RA all fall apart.

[breezing]

I have a question. Let's say Zenyatta goes to the BC at Churchill in November. She runs in the Classic and wins. QR also runs and all the other males folks think are better than her. Rachel may or may not run. Will Zenyatta win HOY...even if she does NOT face any males from now until that day? Will any of the folks that think she's not all that change their opinion of her? I'm just curious.

i don't think most will change their minds.....they'll probably say she got lucky......remember these are the same people who demand that she race RA, RT, QR multiple times on dirt in order to prove who's best. beating each of them once, on dirt, will do nothing.

new video by shirreffs before and after the race http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0XAG0Ku4io

and "New Babies" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgnGgoJ4uIM

[SecretariatForever]

I have a question. Let's say Zenyatta goes to the BC at Churchill in November. She runs in the Classic and wins. QR also runs and all the other males folks think are better than her. Rachel may or may not run. Will Zenyatta win HOY...even if she does NOT face any males from now until that day? Will any of the folks that think she's not all that change their opinion of her? I'm just curious.


I think it would all depend on the records of other top contenders like Blame, Rail Trip, QR and Rachel by the end of the year.

[fluffy]

Just can't help yourself, can you?

Why don't you do a comparison of who sticks their tongue out furtherest? Whose is longest? Widest? Pinkest? Thickest? How many times they wag it in a race. What color the tongue tie is and why one is better than the other. Why not do a comparison of how many times each mare swishes her tail during a race? In the post parade, loading in the gate, so many possibilities. Let's have a comparison of how many times each mare blinks her eyes. I know you can do it.


This is getting better and better; thank you, Codysmom55 for a little goodheartedbutknowsmuchbetteraboutthemagnificentma re silliness in the midst of this total damnnnned insanity :wink: I love it!!!

But besides that: This has now reached the point where I will just say, "who cares about HOY?" That doesn't mean that much right now; who knows if it ever did. Beating RA might have meant something at the beginning of the year, but after the lies and the ducks at the AB...it no longer means jacks***.

Anyhow, as far as Zenyatta goes------------We know> And THEY know also>

But it's entertaining to go on and on and on with this silly bullcrap....who know, maybe somebody is getting off on the attention that they are getting.

I finally learned (after such a long time of being upset) to quit responding to those who must be IMPORTANT here with all of their theories and ideas (why don't you all run them by a few first graders while you all are at it, mostly would be boring to someone who likes to chew crayons and get their milk first, much less people who can ACTUALLY TYPE!!!)

But whatever, carry on. This is very entertaining but some of us have actual lives and can't stay here for days and days saying the same old crap in a different way OVER AND OVER. I know you have things to do, CM55 as I do too so will leave this to the ones who have nothing to do except argue and make a mess of it.

I will have to say that some of the arguments and insults that were allowed to be posted here were terribly distressing and not fitting for publication; just wonder why some of those people weren't chucked off of here? Oh, well-not for me to wonder about that, right?

[reverberate]

i was looking up more stuff bout zenyatta and found out hat she has tied rock of Gibraltar in consecutive G1 races at 7. and that might be one main reason why they will stay for Del mar. :afro:

[GinTalking]

I have a question. Let's say Zenyatta goes to the BC at Churchill in November. She runs in the Classic and wins. QR also runs and all the other males folks think are better than her. Rachel may or may not run. Will Zenyatta win HOY...even if she does NOT face any males from now until that day? Will any of the folks that think she's not all that change their opinion of her? I'm just curious.


Since it's a hypothetical situation, let's just say she'd certainly put herself in very good position to get it if she won the Classic, but it's so darned hard to know what all these horses might do in the meantime or even if all or some of them will actually be IN the Classic at all.

I honestly don't understand why it's met with such resistance that Zenyatta run once in New York so East Coast fans could see her in person. Maybe a few of you can afford to hop on a plane to Los Angeles for the weekend, but a lot of people can't. Other than that, I don't give a hoot if she runs at Saratoga or Belmont simply to prove something. I'll even give her the luxury of walking out of her own stall if she ran in the Gold Cup next month. I think that would really help her HOY case.

[carbonite]

I honestly don't understand why it's met with such resistance that Zenyatta run once in New York so East Coast fans could see her in person.

To begin with, there has never been any reason to think that she will not run in New York. More importantly, however, what makes New York the necessary bathroom break for the country? There's an awful lot of people who don't live anywhere near it. In fact, there are an awful lot of people who live in Southern California, and I don't recall the last time that you were maintaining that a horse couldn't be considered for awards unless he or she ran a race where they could attend the races. In fact, I believe we had a Horse of the Year last year who never put in an appearance anywhere near those fans--I guess you only worry about the airfares travelling east to west, eh?

[Codysmom55]

Interesting all the demands put on Z and her connections. Amazing what this mare SHOULD do. Amazing that this mare should jump through hoops to satisfy.......whom? Thing is, there won't be satisfaction. I've been a solid racing fan for many, many years and the criticism and vitriol I have read here and elsewhere directed towards this mare is unlike any I have ever read for another horse. What a shame. I have good friends who have been racing fans for as long as I have and this obsession to knock this mare puts them at a loss, as well.

I'm not going to tell anyne to enjoy her. That's a choice someone makes. But, I will say if some of you do not realize what is in front of your face, well, it's like always judging Volkswagens to Volkswagens. You will never realize what a Porsche is.

[littlelate]

Interesting all the demands put on Z and her connections. Amazing what this mare SHOULD do. Amazing that this mare should jump through hoops to satisfy.......whom? Thing is, there won't be satisfaction. I've been a solid racing fan for many, many years and the criticism and vitriol I have read here and elsewhere directed towards this mare is unlike any I have ever read for another horse. What a shame. I have good friends who have been racing fans for as long as I have and this obsession to knock this mare puts them at a loss, as well.

I'm not going to tell anyne to enjoy her. That's a choice someone makes. But, I will say if some of you do not realize what is in front of your face, well, it's like always judging Volkswagens to Volkswagens. You will never realize what a Porsche is.
Clamoring for a saviour of the sport, bemoaning that there is no TC winner. No one can see the forest because of the dang trees, you pretty much summed it up.

[GinTalking]

To begin with, there has never been any reason to think that she will not run in New York. More importantly, however, what makes New York the necessary bathroom break for the country? There's an awful lot of people who don't live anywhere near it. In fact, there are an awful lot of people who live in Southern California, and I don't recall the last time that you were maintaining that a horse couldn't be considered for awards unless he or she ran a race where they could attend the races. In fact, I believe we had a Horse of the Year last year who never put in an appearance anywhere near those fans--I guess you only worry about the airfares travelling east to west, eh?


Hmmm ... take a post, write a response that has nothing to do with the post and run with it. That's your style so I'm forgiving you for getting it wrong.

Personally, I don't really care. I've seen her. I was thinking that if she were going to come East, a trip to NY ahead of a trip to KY could actually involve an awful lot of people. They're kind of horsey hubs you see and it was probably more on target than saying I thought she should travel to, oh I dunno, Ohio or Texas, because I don't know what's going on out there for her at this time of year. What I do know is that there are races in New York and that's why I picked New York.

Is there any news that she IS going to run in NY? I missed that news, I guess. I thought they were going to wait until just before the Hirsch to let us all know if she is going in that race. That's as much as I know.

If you can think of another hot spot where a lot of new fans ... because I'm talking about fans here, not awards ... can see her, then fine, pick another state/track. I thought NY was a good place so that folks from New England, the mid-Atlantic, etc. might push away from their computers and travel to see her run.

I think awards are secondary at this point. I expect her to be the Champion Older Female. It's just about some nice PR for an unbeaten mare.

Carb, try not to let the a$$es on this forum color your perspective about everyone else who simply makes a suggestion. I've never used the ignore button in all these years, but gosh darned if it isn't popular with me these days. :grin:

[carbonite]

Is there any news that she IS going to run in NY? I missed that news, I guess. I thought they were going to wait until just before the Hirsch to let us all know if she is going in that race. That's as much as I know.

Once you've been around horses for a little while, you will begin to learn why there is seldom any point in locking yourself into an option prematurely. There are a few major targets that everyone aims for (like the Breeders Cup) and everything else is contingent on doing what is right for your horse. Ask someone in the business if you don't believe me. Or we could pretend that you already know that.

I have read nothing that contradicts what the Mosses have said from the moment that they announced that she would race this year, and that they have continued to mention as a viable possibility:


Moss said Zenyatta could run at Belmont Park in his native New York and in a prep race at Churchill ahead of the Breeders' Cup in November. Without specifying any particular races, he said he likes those that are Grade 1 with distances of 1 1/8 miles.

From day one, the most logical candidate has been the Beldame--assuming, of course, now that they have arranged to borrow the money to stay in business that NYRA ever gets around to releasing a fall stakes schedule. It might be premature to announce you were going to a race that hasn't been scheduled, especially when the track doesn't want to give you stall space. But these are just details, right?

[Huaka]

Well, John Sherriffs said that a decision on where she would run next would be made in two weeks. I hope it's something... NOT the Clement Hirsch even though I want to see her race in person.

[weatherbird]

Well, John Sherriffs said that a decision on where she would run next would be made in two weeks. I hope it's something... NOT the Clement Hirsch even though I want to see her race in person.

earlier in the week, he said that he wouldn't make a decision on the Hirsch until the last possible moment.

[The Tin Man]

Here are a couple of guys who truly appreciate the greatness they're seeing ... I'm with them ... How about you?

Lenny Shulman and Steve Haskin's thoughts on Zenny ... Haskin going as far as saying in his 43 years of following racing he's NEVER seen another horse like her.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/videos/watch/54C46460-D6E6-4AD3-AEDF-474CEA5C9E9E

[Best Pal]

Kind of neat that the big 3 females of today all have 17 races at this point.

http://cristblog.drf.com/crist/

[Liztannica]

Here are a couple of guys who truly appreciate the greatness they're seeing ... I'm with them ... How about you?

Lenny Shulman and Steve Haskin's thoughts on Zenny ... Haskin going as far as saying in his 43 years of following racing he's NEVER seen another horse like her.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/videos/watch/54C46460-D6E6-4AD3-AEDF-474CEA5C9E9E


As someone who highly respects Steve Haskin,it gave me chills to hear him say that about Zenyatta

[The Tin Man]

As someone who highly respects Steve Haskin,it gave me chills to hear him say that about Zenyatta


I know ... It was like Shulman was really choked up and emotional talking about her ... and Haskin was both emotional and blown away by her ... Very cool piece.

I think these 2 guys are about as balanced as any commentators around too ...

Haskin said his ALL of his 43 years following racing he'd never seen another horse like her ... He's seen some greats and for him to say that made me say WOW! That's high, high praise.

[CoronadosQuest]

Kind of neat that the big 3 females of today all have 17 races at this point.

http://cristblog.drf.com/crist/


And Goldi and Rachel both have 12 wins.

[islandgirl45]

I know ... It was like Shulman was really choked up and emotional talking about her ... and Haskin was both emotional and blown away by her ... Very cool piece.

I think these 2 guys are about as balanced as any commentators around too ...

Haskin said his ALL of his 43 years following racing he'd never seen another horse like her ... He's seen some greats and for him to say that made me say WOW! That's high, high praise.


Doesn't it make you wonder how these two veteran turf writers are able to recognize and be impressed by Zenyatta's achievements, while many of their colleagues appear to dismiss them? The critical blogs by JShandler and the column by Amanda Duckworth come to mind...

[The Tin Man]

Doesn't it make you wonder how these two veteran turf writers are able to recognize and be impressed by Zenyatta's achievements, while many of their colleagues appear to dismiss them? The critical blogs by JShandler and the column by Amanda Duckworth come to mind...


Yeah and you don't hear them bitching about surface or Beyers ... NO BS excuses ... Just knowing an exceptional talent when they see if. Who knows if they've ever even seen her run in person, yet they STILL get it.

[fluffy]

Definitely agree with you all; sentiments seemed true and overwhelming (but why listen to those guys...I mean...who are they, compared to the worthwhile (less) arguments overflowing here I mean they get paid for talking about horse racing instead of getting off (?) talking about how smart they are about horse racing.

**And I am kidding, in case anyone thinks that I don't agree with those who do appreciate Zenyatta...we should pay close attention to her...we probably won't see her like again in our lifetimes***
so anyone with a case of the azz and a regular old axe to grind go ahead and jump on me for awhile...I don't care and it gives you someone new to fuss at.Fluffy is tougher than all of you draggingbutt'causeyouarelosersandknowit

Draynotsaysheetinamillionyear s.I could care less about your opinions, except you are some sick and evidently lonely buttfaced losers.

And I have said NOTHING tonight that is as bad as some of the insults that I've read here from that ONE and others of it's kind in the last few weeks--some of it is really sick! (well, maybe buttfaced losers
It's so funny that my other post from above with any sacreligious words (meaning complaining about the chosen ones) now marked out.....was gone instantly, maybe this one will stay awhile. :kiss:

[The Tin Man]

Yeah ... I always liked those guys ... Even Before this tidbit ...

Another thing is that Haskin was actually bright enough also to know PRE-RACE that St Trinians was gonna be a bear ... SO many just don't get how damn good that mare really is. I fully expected she'd give Zenny all she could handle.

I liked that he credited St Trinians for being as good as she is.

No other female in the country comes within a head of Zenny. I'd put St Trinians up against ANY female horse including Zenny and Rachel and know she's got a damn good chance.

I'd put her up against most boys too. Those who slam her Big Cap performance didn't see it. She had a VERY difficult trip and still only finished 5 back. Give her a clean trip and she would have been right there with Misremembered.

[fluffy]

Yeah ... I always liked those guys ... Even Before this tidbit ...

Another thing is that Haskin was actually bright enough also to know PRE-RACE that St Trinians was gonna be a bear ... SO many just don't get how damn good that mare really is. I fully expected she'd give Zenny all she could handle.

I liked that he credited St Trinians for being as good as she is.

No other female in the country comes within a head of Zenny. I'd put St Trinians up against ANY female horse including Zenny and Rachel and know she's got a damn good chance.

I'd put her up against most boys too. Those who slam her Big Cap performance didn't see it. She had a VERY difficult trip and still only finished 5 back. Give her a clean trip and she would have been right there with Misremembered.


So very true. All of what you said.

[Spahny]

We'll see how she trains out of the Vanity. That first work back should be very interesting.

I expect Zenyatta to run huge next time. They clearly eased up on her this spring. They were looking beyond her next start. I do really believe that. She got a nice little tightener chasing down St Trinians and she ran her customary final 3/8's so the kick is still strong as ever. Now watch out.

Everything else is just background noise to me.

[The Tin Man]

We'll see how she trains out of the Vanity. That first work back should be very interesting.

I expect Zenyatta to run huge next time. They clearly eased up on her this spring. They were looking beyond her next start. I do really believe that. She got a nice little tightener chasing down St Trinians and she ran her customary final 3/8's so the kick is still strong as ever. Now watch out.

Everything else is just background noise to me.


Yeah but St Trinians, despite a MUCH shorter stride damn near matched her. Zenny only made up 3 lengths the whole stretch run. She usually makes up 10 to 12 ... St Trinians is tough. She is a threat because she has a style so similar to Zenny's and she's tenacious. She and Rail Trip(who has the perfect style to cause Zenny fits) arfe the ONLY horses that concern me with her. RT has front running speed and NO distance limitations. He WON'T come back to the pack AT ALL. She will have to run him down on the square. She can't spot him more than 5 lengths and do that IMHO. And evidently she can't spot St Trinians much either.

[littlelate]

She can spot so long as Mike rides her properly and she isn't pushed onto the stands on the turn.

[dr john h]

she will go as fast as she needs to to catch up with any horse on the lead..no worries

[Best Pal]

Yeah but St Trinians, despite a MUCH shorter stride damn near matched her. Zenny only made up 3 lengths the whole stretch run. She usually makes up 10 to 12 ... St Trinians is tough. She is a threat because she has a style so similar to Zenny's and she's tenacious. She and Rail Trip(who has the perfect style to cause Zenny fits) arfe the ONLY horses that concern me with her. RT has front running speed and NO distance limitations. He WON'T come back to the pack AT ALL. She will have to run him down on the square. She can't spot him more than 5 lengths and do that IMHO. And evidently she can't spot St Trinians much either.


Yeah but she won't be spotting St. Trinians 9 lbs again. You don't think that makes a difference?

[The Tin Man]

Yeah but she won't be spotting St. Trinians 9 lbs again. You don't think that makes a difference?


I didn't say St Trinians would beat her ... But I'm saying don't sell her short. No one runs harder than St Trinians does and You can't spot her as much as Zenny is used to spotting. Better stay near her. She's a bulldog.

Trust me ... I want Zenny to retire at 20 and 0 with another Classic win. I want her to beat St Trinians by a head when she faces her again ... and I want her to beat Rail Trip by a nose.

Unless QR proves to me he can sustain with NO fade at all at the Classic distance ... I see RT and St Trinians as the ONLY threats to her streak. I respect BOTH of them immensely.

I'm sure Zenny's connections do too! I have NO doubt about that.

Facing EITHER of them will be a VERY tough test.

[Best Pal]

I didn't say St Trinians would beat her ... But I'm saying don't sell her short. No one runs harder than St Trinians does and You can't spot her as much as Zenny is used to spotting. Better stay near her. She's a bulldog.

Trust me ... I want Zenny to retire at 20 and 0 with another Classic win. I want her to beat St Trinians by a head when she faces her again ... and I want her to beat Rail Trip by a nose.

Unless QR proves to me he can sustain with NO fade at all at the Classic distance ... I see RT and St Trinians as the ONLY threats to her streak. I respect BOTH of them immensely.

I'm sure Zenny's connections do too! I have NO doubt about that.

Facing EITHER of them will be a VERY tough test.


I won't sell them short and never have. I have been a big fan of St. T since her American debut and also have followed Rail Trip's career. I'm a big
fan of him and Ron Ellis. I did well betting the Chris McCarron/Ron Ellis connected horses back in the day, Exotic Wood is a good one that I can remember. But I have to say that I don't think Rail Trip wants to run ALL DAY like you claim. Oh well, I guess we will find out later.

[Huaka]

earlier in the week, he said that he wouldn't make a decision on the Hirsch until the last possible moment.


Trainer John Shirreffs watched superstar Zenyatta jog on the training track Thursday in her first appearance on the track since winning her third straight Vanity Handicap under 129 pounds Sunday to extend her unbeaten streak to a record 17.

?Just getting a little exercise,? said Shirreffs, who estimated a decision for her next start would be made in about two weeks.


http://www.calracing.com/stable_notes.php?f=hudsonlandingarrivesforwillroge rs

[The Tin Man]

I won't sell them short and never have. I have been a big fan of St. T since her American debut and also have followed Rail Trip's career. I'm a big
fan of him and Ron Ellis. I did well betting the Chris McCarron/Ron Ellis connected horses back in the day, Exotic Wood is a good one that I can remember. But I have to say that I don't think Rail Trip wants to run ALL DAY like you claim. Oh well, I guess we will find out later.


Yes we will ... :wink:

[Dusty]

I PRAY they DO NOT RUN HER AT DELMAR

[Man o' Taz]

I honestly don't understand why it's met with such resistance that Zenyatta run once in New York so East Coast fans could see her in person.

To begin with, there has never been any reason to think that she will not run in New York. More importantly, however, what makes New York the necessary bathroom break for the country? There's an awful lot of people who don't live anywhere near it. In fact, there are an awful lot of people who live in Southern California, and I don't recall the last time that you were maintaining that a horse couldn't be considered for awards unless he or she ran a race where they could attend the races. In fact, I believe we had a Horse of the Year last year who never put in an appearance anywhere near those fans--I guess you only worry about the airfares travelling east to west, eh?

I laid it all out for you in another thread carb...

Her connections have repeatedly said NY is a possibility this year...that New York remains a possibility this year.

Maybe you should be talking to Zenyatta's connections instead of us.

They are the ones who have made the inconsistent statement. Now, you refuse to acknowledge the inconsistency which is your prerogative...but when you try to justify the fact that you are not running anywhere other than synthetic because the BC is on synthetic (despite having scheduled a race earlier in the year which was on dirt that your horse was scratched from) and when you make statements AFTER the 2010 Apple Blossom that you plan on running in NY...and your trainer refuses to rule out running in NY...well that makes us "East coasters" who long to see the great mare salivate at the possibility.

Now, Seabiscuit was not afraid to take a train out here to run...and we have come so far from those days...its just a plane ride away...

I do not blame her connections...I respect their racing philosophy in trying to get their mare to peak for the BC and their worry about her losing weight...

But please do not leave the door open...state plainly...

1. We wanted to run in NY but she did not travel well to Oaklawn and for the horse's best interests we want to restrict her travel as much as possible.

2. Our goal has always been the BC Classic -- and part of our racing philosophy is that we want our horse peaking for the biggest race. In order for Zenyatta to do that WE BELIEVE that facing males in advance of that race is not in her best interests.

[Reposmoral]

Her connections have repeatedly said NY is a possibility this year...that New York remains a possibility this year.

Maybe you should be talking to Zenyatta's connections instead of us.

They are the ones who have made the inconsistent statement. Now, you refuse to acknowledge the inconsistency which is your prerogative...but when you try to justify the fact that you are not running anywhere other than synthetic because the BC is on synthetic (despite having scheduled a race earlier in the year which was on dirt that your horse was scratched from) and when you make statements AFTER the 2010 Apple Blossom that you plan on running in NY...and your trainer refuses to rule out running in NY...well that makes us "East coasters" who long to see the great mare salivate at the possibility.




I understand the desire for the connections to just flat out state what's currently on their mind about Zenyatta and shipping east before the BC, but where's the "inconsistency?" The year is not over yet, for starters, and secondly, lets say she never ends up going to New York--there is no "inconsistency" in saying that "New York is a possibility" and then deciding, for whatever reason, that it doesn't fit the schedule after all, or wouldn't be a smart move. Possibility is not certainty. Why they should commit to her race schedule four months in advance does not make sense to me. They are obviously going race-by-race, evaluating how she comes out of each one, etc.

As for last year, I don't agree that they were being inconsistent when they explained their reluctance to ship east later in the year as being due to the BC location in CA on synthetics. You bring up the fact that they shipped to Churchill for her first start, as evidence against that reasoning being genuine. I disagree--that was her FIRST start of the year, many months away from BC, and thus if the trip or race (had she raced) took anything out of her, it wouldn't have been a deal-breaker, she would have had plenty of time in her season to recover and gear up for the BC. The closer you get to the BC, the less you want to take risks and ship around prepping on surfaces that are different from what you're going to be on in "The Big Race". It makes sense to take that chance in the beginning of the season. It makes less sense as you get closer to the race you're pointing to as the ultimate goal.

They said she would ship and run on dirt this year--she has done that at least once so far. Give them credit for that. In the meantime, they are obviously trying to keep her together over the summer, trying not to wear her out or peak too soon. I doubt she has a lot of top class races left in her--in other words, races where "the Real Zenyatta" shows up, though anything less than The Real Zenyatta is still pretty damn good. And it will indeed take a top-class effort to win the Classic a second time. I believe Zenyatta can do it if she has not declined significantly in form, so I support them doing whatever they need to do to prevent that from happening too soon.

I think we need to accept that Zenyatta may have been able to handle a more ambitious schedule in her first two years of racing, particularly 08, and there is room to criticize the connections for not being more brave with their incredibly special mare in the past, but the opportunity to "prove her greatness" by racing her here and there and against males every time out is past--this is not the year to do it, anymore, not without hurting her form or her chances to run past them all at Churchill in November. And THAT, that...that is what I want to see more than anything.

Anyway, that is, as they say, "Just my opinion."

[Man o' Taz]

2010

http://www.nctimes.com/sports/equestrian/racing/article_1abff4e1-b8f0-5d2b-ac9f-7edc132ef6cb.html

"We've always looked at the Breeders' Cup as our focus," owner Jerry Moss said. "The Breeders' Cup, just for what it's worth, was in LA for two years in a row. That wasn't our choosing. Did it make it easier to run there and train there? Sure."

His wife Ann added, "Would we have rather run on dirt? Absolutely. Would we still rather run on dirt? Absolutely."

They'll get their wish on Churchill's dirt track.

The Mosses and their team will plot a schedule for Zenyatta based on the goal of having her defend her title in the $5 million BC Classic, in which she beat the boys last year.

"We want to let everybody see her, we're proud of her," Moss said. "It's exciting when she appears somewhere. She's a star, no doubt about her."

And an obliging one, too.

After trouncing four other horses by 4 1/4 lengths under an easy gallop in Friday's Apple Blossom, Zenyatta faced the cheering grandstand and bowed her head twice while extending one of her front feet as if to curtsy.

"It's a great feeling to be around something as important as she is," Moss said. "It is a responsibility, it's a great joy. It's just nice to have someone that's such a crowd-pleaser."

Moss said Zenyatta could run at Belmont Park in his native New York and in a prep race at Churchill ahead of the Breeders' Cup in November. Without specifying any particular races, he said he likes those that are Grade 1 with distances of 1 1/8 miles.

"If Rachel Alexandra wants to join us any time she'd like we'd welcome that idea," he said.

http://www.insidesocal.com/horseracing/2010/04/shirreffs-taking-it-one-race-a.html

Shirreffs said Zenyatta will race outside of California again before the Breeders' Cup, that his wife Dottie, who serves as racing manager for owners Jerry and Ann Moss, has every condition book from around the country on her desk to help pick and choose.

"She knows what's going on," Shirreffs said.

Still, he and the Mosses don't want to keep Zenyatta on the road the rest of the year.

"You can't ship every race, that's impossible," he said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=4832070

Neither the Mosses, nor Shirreffs, committed to a specific comeback race. It is likely, however, that Zenyatta will race outside California at some point in 2010.

"I would say we're probably going to travel a bit," Moss said. "I'd like to see her run in some dirt races."

Shirreffs has maintained that Zenyatta is more effective on dirt than she is on synthetic. Her 14 starts included 13 wins on synthetic and one on dirt - the 2008 Apple Blossom at Oaklawn Park.

2009

Tuesday, May 26, 2009
Zenyatta's five-race 2009 homestand
http://fuguefortinhorns.blogspot.com/2009/05/zenyattas-five-race-2009-homestand.html

If the Breeders' Cup were planned for anywhere outside of California, it almost certainly would not be staged over a synthetic main track. And that could prompt Shirreffs to take Zenyatta on the road a time or two, in order to keep her familiar with a traditional dirt surface and perhaps to get a race over the specific strip where the 2009 Breeders' Cup Ladies Classic would be run.

Says Shirreffs, "With the Breeders' Cup out here, what's the point (of traveling)";

"When it gets closer to (Breeders' Cup) time," says Shirreffs in May, of the late-October festival, "you don't want to ship around too much. Saratoga is a long way."

To be sure, Shirreffs and Zenyatta's connections are showing no inclination to really test their mare this year. Not only is Shirreffs begging off a trip to America's racing mecca, Saratoga, for a possible date in a Grade 1 race like the Go For Wand at 9 furlongs early in August or the 10-furlong Personal Ensign in the month's waning days. He's also on record as opting out of letting her face Grade 1 males -- even at home in California. And he isn't particularly interested merely in asking Zenyatta if she can stretch her legs for an extra furlong.

"The (Hollywood) Gold Cup is a mile and a quarter," Shirreffs said. "She's never run that far. It would be an ambitious spot and against the boys? Let's make it even harder."

Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta Meeting Unlikely
August 5th, 2009
http://southerngaming.com/?p=4997

In a national conference call Monday, Jerry Moss, owner of Zenyatta, said he'd love for the two star females to meet. But he said such matchups are why the Breeders' Cup was created.

Asked if he owed it to the sport for the two horses to meet somewhere, Moss said, "Well, I do. And the Breeders' Cup was created for this kind of a circumstance. I'm sorry (Jackson) feels that way. I didn't pick the place where the Breeders' Cup is being run; I had nothing to do with that selection.

"We happen to live in California, so that's what we build around. And we do plan a lot around where the Breeders' Cup is. If the Breeders? Cup were in New York or Churchill Downs, we?d be all over the country."

Another major impediment to a showdown at Saratoga or Belmont Park is Shirreff's feeling that New York's security barns where horses go for six hours before they race puts out-of-state shippers at another disadvantage.

Moss didn't rule out a New York foray but said, "We don't think it's fair for a horse who has traveled 3,000 to have to move twice. That's really putting a lot of stress on a horse. John feels very strongly about that. I do too."

Rachel Alexandra beat th eboys again in Monmouth Park's Haskell Invitational to further her grip as the Horse of the Year front-runner. Zenyatta puts her 11-for-11 record on the line in Sunday's Grade I Clement Hirsch at Del Mar.

Zenyatta, 2-for-2 this year, raced seven times last year, including Oaklawn's Grade I Apple Blossom in her lone race on dirt and capped by the Breeders Cup Ladies Classic to be voted older filly champion.

Moss says he wants Zenyatta to do something different from repeating in the same races as last year. That could include racing against males, perhaps in Santa Anita's Grade I Goodwood or the Breeders? Cup Classic.

Well, Reposmoral...you and I obviously see things slightly differently.

There are two issues here...running on dirt which they did ONCE as you indicate which is different from what was said last year by both Moss and Shirreffs...where they were implying that if the race were not on synthetic that they would be racing more on dirt in preparation for that race. Well, a race in April on a track that Zenyatta previously raced over to me is not what their statement was implying. Otherwise, their entire campaign being on synthetic which was justified by saying this is the surface the BC is on to me is quite weak.

The second is racing in New York...

Moss himself said that he planned on having her race in NY or at Churchill in a prep. His wife said they want to run multiple times on dirt this year BEFORE the Classic. He said he wanted her to run in dirt "races" plural before the Breeders Cup.

You folks act like we are trying to condemn the Mosses, and my point has only been that I would appreciate their being a little more straight forward. It is obvious the statement last year which suggested the reason why they were running on synthetic surfaces was because the BC was on that surface was totally self serving. Totally. OR they would have spent most of their campaign running on dirt tracks.

And as for us wanting to see Zenyatta on the East coast...who can blame us...Moss himself has stated that he wants everyone to be able to see his horse.

Well, I pray they keep her healthy because I have my Breeders Cup tickets and I am excited that I will hopefully get to see the great mare at least once. Maybe twice if she hits the Personal Ensign at Saratoga.

[islandgirl45]

Well, Reposmoral...you and I obviously see things slightly differently.

There are two issues here...running on dirt which they did ONCE as you indicate which is different from what was said last year by both Moss and Shirreffs...where they were implying that if the race were not on synthetic that they would be racing more on dirt in preparation for that race. Well, a race in April on a track that Zenyatta previously raced over to me is not what their statement was implying. Otherwise, their entire campaign being on synthetic which was justified by saying this is the surface the BC is on to me is quite weak.

The second is racing in New York...

Moss himself said that he planned on having her race in NY or at Churchill in a prep. His wife said they want to run multiple times on dirt this year BEFORE the Classic. He said he wanted her to run in dirt "races" plural before the Breeders Cup.

You folks act like we are trying to condemn the Mosses, and my point has only been that I would appreciate their being a little more straight forward. It is obvious the statement last year which suggested the reason why they were running on synthetic surfaces was because the BC was on that surface was totally self serving. Totally. OR they would have spent most of their campaign running on dirt tracks.

And as for us wanting to see Zenyatta on the East coast...who can blame us...Moss himself has stated that he wants everyone to be able to see his horse.

Well, I pray they keep her healthy because I have my Breeders Cup tickets and I am excited that I will hopefully get to see the great mare at least once. Maybe twice if she hits the Personal Ensign at Saratoga.

The quotes about doing lots of traveling were said before Zenyatta came home dehydrated from all the excitement and travel to Arkansas. It apparently took Shirreffs 2-3 weeks to get her back into condition. There's no doubt that toned down the plans to ship her everywhere, don't you think?

It's evident they're reluctant to have that happen again closer to the Breeders Cup. Just my 2 cents.

[forgotten]

I'm very curious to why people think she MUST run in NY to get ready for BC. Personally, I don't think its going to happen. She doesn't ship well, she won't like the detention barns and BC is not in NY this year. There is no more point in shipping her to run in NY mid season as there is to ship her to Woodbine to run on turf. She trains on dirt at home, they know she's comfortable on the surface, let them do what they need to do to have her ready to roll in November. Let these people who own this wonderful mare enjoy her close to home. From what I understand, they actually really like their horse and enjoy seeing her and visiting her at the barn.

[Dusty]

She freaked at the Landing ( steep and short ) to get to Oaklawn and at the takeoff... You know the owners really do enjoy her...they visit her at the barn A LOT. I truly believe they have her best interests at heart.

[Largent80]

I freak, landing at San Francisco...Anyone else had the pleasure?

[Man o' Taz]

islandgirl45:

I absolutely agree with you. Which is why I find it strange that Shirreffs continues to leave the door open for visitng NY in interviews saying its still a possibility.

I doubt she runs in NY. And frankly if she does not ship well I agree. I do not think they should ship her. But say that. Rule it out.


I'm very curious to why people think she MUST run in NY to get ready for BC. Personally, I don't think its going to happen. She doesn't ship well, she won't like the detention barns and BC is not in NY this year. There is no more point in shipping her to run in NY mid season as there is to ship her to Woodbine to run on turf. She trains on dirt at home, they know she's comfortable on the surface, let them do what they need to do to have her ready to roll in November. Let these people who own this wonderful mare enjoy her close to home. From what I understand, they actually really like their horse and enjoy seeing her and visiting her at the barn.

I do not think she has to run in NY. It is her connections who continue to leave the door open for that.

They made statements in the past about running on dirt more if that is where the BC was.

They made statements about wanting everyone to see their horse.

They made statements about running her in NY.

And as I noted above, Shirreffs continues to leave the door open when he is interviewed. I think they should just make a statement saying it was our goal to run Zenyatta elsewhere - so that people could see her and so she could get more dirt preparation for the BC, but she did not travel well from Arkansas, and as a result we have had to alter our plans. The Breeders Cup remains our goal, but we will be staying in California.

The other reason why she needs to run in NY is that if she is not running in CA - NY is the only real other place in the US with G1 stakes for fillies and mares 3yo and up.

[ElPrado1]

Landing in San Francisco? (Jumping up and down and waving.) Me! From several directions.

[Citation07]

Landing in San Francisco? (Jumping up and down and waving.) Me! From several directions.

I actually like landing in San Francisco, with all the water. I freak landing or watching others land in San Diego. So many buildings...