Zenyatta News

[islandgirl45]

I wouldn't bet too much on that. Ask Three Chimneys and Ghost Ridge about what it's like having Smarty Jones in your barn.

Fans these days are far more 'out there' than they used to be. Obviously the internet/forums/Facebook has opened up a whole new world ... not all of it positive I'm afraid. There are some nutjobs out there, people who I swear spend 24/7 online writing the most inane stuff about their favorites that you really wonder about what's going on in their head.

I'm a fan too and I love seeing kids making signs for horses, forming fan clubs for them, and I think it's fabulous that adults of all ages, shapes and sizes will stop on the side of the road to watch a horse. That's great stuff. But honestly, I don't want to see a 57 year old, male or female, decked out in weird clothing, screaming/practically in tears ... "Oh X, you are soooo beautiful. I love you." That used to describe a very young child and that is fun.

If you've ever been to a Friends of Barbaro event, you know what I'm talking about. And yet most here would diss the FOBs as being too far over the edge. What's the difference. This is very similar.

Whatever happened to just being a respectful fan ... standing back and admiring a horse, taking a few photos, enjoying the moment.

Read some of the comments on the Blood-Horse where Anne has posted a bunch of photos .... something about 'did she get her dapples in Kentucky because she never had them before' and 'it's mean to use a chain on her'. Seriously? These people aren't fans. They're nuts. They've probably never seen a race horse, much less seen Zenyatta. Do we really want to attract those folks to this sport? Aren't they just odd enough that one day, one of them will run into a paddock and up to a horse to give it a kiss because they love that horse so much, or jump a fence and run onto the track because they want to get closer to their favorite horse?

I see that happening at some point ... and how many people will say, "Oh this is great for the sport .... we're gaining new fans." No we're not. Racing isn't going to benefit from people like this ... they won't go to the track and they won't bet, and the farm employees probably go home every night with a new story about some crackpot who came to visit today. I'd bet on it.

We're long on crazies and short on respect these days. I wish we could take a few steps back.

I certainly agree with your "short on respect" statement. If you've read comments posted on sites about political discussions, it's easy to see they're not equivalent to the Lincoln-Douglas debates. As a country, the polarization of our politics and general disrespect (by some) for others has created a climate in which it's considered OK to scream "BULLSH!T" on a message board.

However, I question your idea that people "aren't fans" and must be "crazies" or "nuts" if they don't know why horses are dappled and the proper use of lip chains, as well as your suggestion of "Do we really want to attract those folks to this sport?

You work in the racing industry as a photographer; is that correct? So, you're knowledgeable about everything that has to do with the care and usual practices of dealing with racehorses.
I was a news reporter for most of my career, so I know a good bit about Florida's Government in the Sunshine Law and how it applies to local governments.

If you didn't know, for example, that you legally can't ban someone you don't like from a government meeting, does that make you "nuts," "crazy" or "a crackpot?"
Does it mean you're likely to jump over the podium and attack the person you don't like because you don't know how to act in public?

No, it simply means you don't know the law like I do.

No disrespect intended, GinTalking, you seem think of the sport of horse racing as a clique or fraternity, in which new members must conform to a specific set of rules and knowledge base to prove they're worthy of joining your group.

No one is born with your knowledge, nor were you. I assume you learned it by experience, reading, watching and listening to others.

On Zenyatta.com, the latest diary post mentions that fans have asked about the lip chain being used on Zenyatta, then discusses its purpose. That's a good example on how knowledge can be passed on without condescension.

Perhaps we can try that here.

[Horse's Rear]

Perhaps we can try that here.
We did a long time ago.

Look where it got us.

[islandgirl45]

We did a long time ago.

Look where it got us.


How long ago was that? Are we talking years?

[Wintertree]

I certainly agree with your "short on respect" statement. If you've read comments posted on sites about political discussions, it's easy to see they're not equivalent to the Lincoln-Douglas debates. As a country, the polarization of our politics and general disrespect (by some) for others has created a climate in which it's considered OK to scream "BULLSH!T" on a message board.

However, I question your idea that people "aren't fans" and must be "crazies" or "nuts" if they don't know why horses are dappled and the proper use of lip chains, as well as your suggestion of "Do we really want to attract those folks to this sport?

You work in the racing industry as a photographer; is that correct? So, you're knowledgeable about everything that has to do with the care and usual practices of dealing with racehorses.
I was a news reporter for most of my career, so I know a good bit about Florida's Government in the Sunshine Law and how it applies to local governments.

If you didn't know, for example, that you legally can't ban someone you don't like from a government meeting, does that make you "nuts," "crazy" or "a crackpot?"
Does it mean you're likely to jump over the podium and attack the person you don't like because you don't know how to act in public?

No, it simply means you don't know the law like I do.

No disrespect intended, GinTalking, you seem think of the sport of horse racing as a clique or fraternity, in which new members must conform to a specific set of rules and knowledge base to prove they're worthy of joining your group.

No one is born with your knowledge, nor were you. I assume you learned it by experience, reading, watching and listening to others.

On Zenyatta.com, the latest diary post mentions that fans have asked about the lip chain being used on Zenyatta, then discusses its purpose. That's a good example on how knowledge can be passed on without condescension.

Perhaps we can try that here.

I totally agree with that. I began to watch horseracing in 2008, and I almost knew nothing about the sport back then. (I still don't know much.) I only learned what dapples were this year! and never have I seen them more visible than on those photos of Zenyatta at Lane's End, maybe because of the contrast with the snow. For a neophyte, horseracing is like a different world, with its own language and knowledge; you need time and the right circumstances to get it.

Then there's the added problems that we live in a society that LOVES animals and have them everywhere in sight, and yet most people don't have any idea what real, non-fictional animals are like...

[Epiphany]

I think it is a sorority in Gin's case, and you have to be of a certain age. But that was a great post islandgirl. Excellent point about Shirreffs desire to instruct, not condemn.

[Horse's Rear]

How long ago was that? Are we talking years?

Yes.

[Bickersons]

I certainly agree with your "short on respect" statement. If you've read comments posted on sites about political discussions, it's easy to see they're not equivalent to the Lincoln-Douglas debates. As a country, the polarization of our politics and general disrespect (by some) for others has created a climate in which it's considered OK to scream "BULLSH!T" on a message board.

However, I question your idea that people "aren't fans" and must be "crazies" or "nuts" if they don't know why horses are dappled and the proper use of lip chains, as well as your suggestion of "Do we really want to attract those folks to this sport?

You work in the racing industry as a photographer; is that correct? So, you're knowledgeable about everything that has to do with the care and usual practices of dealing with racehorses.
I was a news reporter for most of my career, so I know a good bit about Florida's Government in the Sunshine Law and how it applies to local governments.

If you didn't know, for example, that you legally can't ban someone you don't like from a government meeting, does that make you "nuts," "crazy" or "a crackpot?"
Does it mean you're likely to jump over the podium and attack the person you don't like because you don't know how to act in public?

No, it simply means you don't know the law like I do.

No disrespect intended, GinTalking, you seem think of the sport of horse racing as a clique or fraternity, in which new members must conform to a specific set of rules and knowledge base to prove they're worthy of joining your group.

No one is born with your knowledge, nor were you. I assume you learned it by experience, reading, watching and listening to others.

On Zenyatta.com, the latest diary post mentions that fans have asked about the lip chain being used on Zenyatta, then discusses its purpose. That's a good example on how knowledge can be passed on without condescension.

Perhaps we can try that here.

Oooh, good post! I've been a racing fan since Seattle Slew. Worked at the track for a bit and know a fair amount. I've never been successful at getting any of my non-racing friends interested, even those who own horses. Until Zenyatta. A big part of the problem is that racing doesn't make itself novice-friendly. It's as if racing doesn't actually WANT new fans. But the whole Zenyatta team has been a perfect storm. and yeah, I definitely agree with Gin that there are absolute nutso crazies who've attached themselves to Zenyatta. But isn't the statistic that 30% of any population is crazy anyway? I think you can look at any field and find 30% of crazy. I write for television and believe me, I see this all the time.

I know that a lot of these crazies are going to drift away but those whose imagination and interest have actually been captured by Zenyatta will stay. I'm more than willing to put up with the nuts I stood with at Hollywood Park if it means that friends of mine who couldn't have cared less about racing are now excited about seeing Harmonious, Blind Luck and Switch run next year. Heck, my friends have learned so much about racing that they want to argue with Andy Beyer about his HOTY criteria. They have me to turn to when they have questions, but a lot of these folks are probably trolling forums like this, and when they are slapped down because they absurdly love Zenyatta and want to know why she has a lip chain, that's not doing the sport any favors.

Zenyatta is the gateway drug to racing and while there will always be addicts, there will also be people who are now honestly curious and excited about racing. If you've spent years alone with your love for racing, why on Earth would you want to consign someone else to the same fate?

[auburndee1]

I've seriously followed other sports, mostly baseball and hockey, and there is no way to avoid football fanatics.

Those "crazys" pay admission and parking; they buy hot dogs and beer; they buy T-shirts, sweat shirts and jerseys for themsleves, spouces, children and grandchildren. They buy season preview magazines, play-off review mags, post season analysis mags. They buy calanders. And they put their $5 to $20 bets on play-offs, finals and Superbowls because they enjoy their sports team.

Horse Racing would be in much better shape if they deversified the fan base and revenue the way other major sports have. Including FANS doesn't mean handicappers are thrown to the side. Fans may not bring in the $ the exotics do for the derby once a year, but they'd be a stable source of revenue all season long.

[moonwalker]

A big part of the problem is that racing doesn't make itself novice-friendly. It's as if racing doesn't actually WANT new fans.

They want to pick and choose, as in, they only care about bettors, not fans. Ken Rudulph and Matt Corothers (sp?) were sneering about this on TVG about a week ago; said something like, "these are people who read Black Beauty but don't know anything about competition and handicapping." I wanted to say, well excuse the heck out of me, when did these things become mutually exclusive, and who are you to be gatekeepers as to who can be in your horse racing super secret tree house club?

I grew up drawing pictures and reading about horses, when I couldn't actually ride them at a relative's farm. And along with that, I was a little wise guy kid who operated a book from the second grade and took bets with my school friends, not only on horse racing, but boxing and baseball. It was a nice little income for an 8 year old. I read the Louisville Courier Journal every day and kept a notebook on winners from Churchill Downs, Keeneland, and Latonia (now called Turfway Park.) So don't give me this stereotypical crap that any little girl, boy, or adult who loves horsies isn't interested in competition and handicapping. Or that every bettor is a cold reptile who doesn't care about animals.

But if an old blind lady wants to hold a statue of an angel in her hands and pray that a horse comes home safely in her race (as I posted about earlier in this thread), who are we to tell her she can't, that she's not worthy of enjoying horse racing?

Mary MMM

[moonwalker]

But honestly, I don't want to see a 57 year old, male or female, decked out in weird clothing, screaming/practically in tears ... "Oh X, you are soooo beautiful. I love you."

Just like a football fan, decked out in weird clothing and painted face, screaming for his/her team and favorite players? And what exactly is the age cutoff as to who is allowed to enjoy sports?

Mary MMM

[Epiphany]

If Zenyatta is the reason that the Breeders' Cup saw three times the TV ratings, and added 10,000 rumps in the Churchill Downs seats, and you can turn a few of them into bettors, and they can in turn bring other friends to the sport over time...

Or Ken and Simon can brush up on Black Beauty when they are sitting together in an unemployment office in a few short years.

[islandgirl45]

But honestly, I don't want to see a 57 year old, male or female, decked out in weird clothing, screaming/practically in tears ... "Oh X, you are soooo beautiful. I love you."
Just like a football fan, decked out in weird clothing and painted face, screaming for his/her team and favorite players? And what exactly is the age cutoff as to who is allowed to enjoy sports?
Mary MMM

Absolutely, there should be an age cut-off, say...under 25. Ever seen those guys who paint their bodies blue and orange or whatever their team colors are? Even in winter? We should probably ban those crazies from football stadiums, too. Who knows what they might do? Oh, the horror.:evil:

[Spahny]

I don't think horse racing is in any position to be setting limits on the scope of a prospective new fan base. And it's not like the track hasn't always had something of a side show circus appeal to it. I know that's part of the reason we always liked going a couple times a year before I gave a darn. (Funny they don't seem so strange now?) If that is a problem for somebody I just assume they are up in the clubhouse... With the normal people?

I got a condescending note for admitting not knowing that Whirlaway was known as Mr. Long Tail. Expectations that people who are new to the game should immediately get up to speed on all of this terribly important stuff might just succeed in chasing them away. And sometimes that seems to be what the hardcore fans want. Even bettors complain when more fans show up at the track because of the effect on the teller lines. Horse racing fans are out there all alone on a island and they seem to like it that way. Which is probably a good thing since it is highly unlikely that horse racing will ever experience any kind of revival no matter what anyone tries to do about it.

I think John Shirreffs was clearly trying to get people more familiar with these great animals when he allowed greater access to the backside and even was quoted as saying "we should do more of this". He also had a horse in Zenaytta that wasn't bothered in the least by the extra activity. It certainly didn't hurt anything. That it might have helped just a little bit should be acknowledged. The one time I went back to see her everybody was very respectful and only approached her after Steve Willard said it was time for pictures. The most "weird" thing that happened is a few women wanted to sing her the Zenyatta song. That was the highlight of the meeting for Zenyatta. She lit up like a bright star when hearing her name being sung.

[Curlin]

They want to pick and choose, as in, they only care about bettors, not fans. Ken Rudulph and Matt Corothers (sp?) were sneering about this on TVG about a week ago; said something like, "these are people who read Black Beauty but don't know anything about competition and handicapping." I wanted to say, well excuse the heck out of me, when did these things become mutually exclusive, and who are you to be gatekeepers as to who can be in your horse racing super secret tree house club?
Mary MMM

If their criteria for being a horse racing fan involves betting a lot (which I can't afford to do) and excelling at handicapping, then all I can say is, they have the salaries to be able to do the former, but can't do the latter to save their souls. I regularly pit myself against Mr Snarky (Matt Carothers) and his buddy at DRF, and Mr B too, and I can get winners with greater frequency than they can (not an exotics person myself). And considering how Rudulph's cohorts regularly condescend to him, he's not one to talk to the viewing public about its comparative lack of knowledge (and "prettyponyism"). He's still crowing years later about picking 1 winner (Giacomo). I guess even a stopped clock is right twice a a day.

My two visits to Zenyatta were under markedly different circumstances. The first time was after her Lady's Secret win in 2008; the 2nd time was just before her shipping to Kentucky. Yes, there were many more people visiting her the 2nd time (hundreds) vs when I visited the first time (3 of us). I cared little about how much any of the visitors knew about horse racing on my 2nd visit (some neophytes asked questions and anyone in the crowd - including the trainer - answered politely to the best of their knowledge).

If people don't know and are willing to learn, you as a more knowledgeable horse racing aficionado can provide information. It goes a lot further in terms of PR, and it makes sense in the karma department to be a decent human being rather a condescending twit.

[MonmouthGuy]

If the new "fans" that Zenyatta brought into horse racing stick around, then it is certainly good for the sport. If the extent of their continued involvement is adding the Lane's End number to their speed dialer so they can get "updates" in between cat feedings, call the men in white coats and good riddance.

[islandgirl45]

If the new "fans" that Zenyatta brought into horse racing stick around, then it is certainly good for the sport. If the extent of their continued involvement is adding the Lane's End number to their speed dialer so they can get "updates" in between cat feedings, call the men in white coats and good riddance.

Others posted comments of substance in this thread. Unequipped to contribute in that vein, you've posted a smug, noxious condemnation of Zenyatta's fans. How ugly, and unsurprising.

[moonwalker]

Wow, veiled mysogny much?

Mary MMM

[Epiphany]

If the new "fans" that Zenyatta brought into horse racing stick around, then it is certainly good for the sport. If the extent of their continued involvement is adding the Lane's End number to their speed dialer so they can get "updates" in between cat feedings, call the men in white coats and good riddance.

I hear they are going to arrive too late to help. All tied up at your house.

[djnorth]

Moonwalker,

Great posts! I'm trying to figure out why the all-or-nothing approach is a great idea to attract people to racing. I admit that some of the more extreme FOB's make me wonder what's up-the ones who get emails from the horse, etc. I don't hate them, just wonder if they should be seeing a professional for their own good.

But if people want to get into racing from most angles, I think it's OK, as long as they don't throw stuff at or threaten horses they don't like. I got to see Zenyatta in full stride at the BC from the rail-it was wonderful. I have been moved to tears by horses, for both exhilarating and tragic reasons. I also bet (admittedly small-time, not by the thousands) and enjoy the puzzle. Sudoku's got nothing on a horse race!

I think I have at least one convert to my credit. She's contemplating betting but went with me to the BC more as a curiosity than anything else. She's now following websites and asking questions. I showed a woman taking pictures in Friday's BC paddock how to bet on a horse she liked. To me, it's all good.

I think there can be major concerns about people assuming that all horses are like Zenyatta people-wise but I don't think that's new. When my parents took us to farms on vacation (years ago) the grooms would talk about the signs on fences and talk about people setting out picnic lunches in a stallion's paddock, luckily not Ribot's! Thinking back to the Artax incident in MD, maybe the way to avoid strange stuff like that would be to stop selling alcohol at big races (or not let Bill Nack near the track during match races!)

Some of these folks that the TVG guys were snickering at might support things like racehorse retirement or permanently disabled jockeys or backstretch workers. We're not generally talking PETArds here. (How's that for sweeping prejudice?!)

[islandgirl45]

Wow, veiled mysogny much?

Mary MMM

"Veiled?" I'd say it's out in the open. All the time.

[moonwalker]

Thinking back to the Artax incident in MD, maybe the way to avoid strange stuff like that would be to stop selling alcohol at big races (or not let Bill Nack near the track during match races!)



ROFL about Bill Nack!!!

I remember going to Darby Dan as a kid in the 70's and hearing about people wanting to have a picnic on the farm, take pictures of their kids on the horses' backs, etc. Which is why the KY Horse Park was a good idea... people who don't know about horses and don't have much opportunity for contact can go there and learn about them, pet some of them, etc., and not pester the breeding farms around Lexington.

And I think there would be a LOT of support for some of the causes you mentioned, especially race horse retirement, from some of these fans who are getting sneered at. Zenyatta's owners support Old Friends and encourage others to do the same. Maybe some of the Zenyatta energy can be channeled that way.

Mary MMM

[djnorth]

The HP is great and it's actually fun for me to try to answer the newbies' questions. Even though I've followed this sport pretty rabidly for over 40 years, I do find myself saying, "I'm not sure." quite a bit. Cuz, well, I'm not!

The woman who wanted to bet the BC Ladies' Classic was almost afraid to ask how to do that. SHe asked if you gave the clerk to horse's name. SInce I've heard some clerks get stupid with newbies, I showed her how to use the number but didn't ask her who she liked in case I didn't and I do NOT talk anyone out of a horse! I used my pick (Unrivaled Belle, sometimes even I get lucky!) as an example. She went to bet after that, I think and said she would probably bet more the next day.

Everybody's got to start somewhere. I thought I was a cranky old b***h until I heard some of this stuff, including TVG. Geez, people!

[Rick1323]

The casual fan and pretty horsie fan are both in abundance every Saratoga and Del Mar meet. They do tie up the windows, occasionally trying to bet a horse by name, but they manange to co exist with the degenerates just fine. The Zenyatta fan is not such a new thing. It happens every summer.

[daisy]

I would love to see them print horse names on tickets - at least just straight WPS tickets. They did it on Lady's Secret day at Hollywood this year for at least the Lady's Secret (I've got my "$2 win ZENYATTA' ticket) and Goodwood ($2 win AWESOME GEM.) Certainly the technology is there. It would make it sooo much easier for the novice - and for the grizzled handicapper going through tickets at the end of the day to see if they're winners.

[Rick1323]

I would love to see them print horse names on tickets - at least just straight WPS tickets. They did it on Lady's Secret day at Hollywood this year for at least the Lady's Secret (I've got my "$2 win ZENYATTA' ticket) and Goodwood ($2 win AWESOME GEM.) Certainly the technology is there. It would make it sooo much easier for the novice - and for the grizzled handicapper going through tickets at the end of the day to see if they're winners.

I like it, but it would get very complicated with exotics. The print out might make a pretty big ticket!

[Horse's Rear]

I like it, but it would get very complicated with exotics. The print out might make a pretty big ticket!
What would be cool would be if they could print different colored tickets, in different shapes, for different wagers and denominations . . . and maybe they could even put special designs and figures on each ticket, so that no race would look like any other. That would be so neat and colorful. But, of course, it's much too complicated--it'll never happen.

Ain't it great to be old, Rick?

[moonwalker]

What would be cool would be if they could print different colored tickets, in different shapes, for different wagers and denominations . . . and maybe they could even put special designs and figures on each ticket, so that no race would look like any other. That would be so neat and colorful. But, of course, it's much too complicated--it'll never happen.

Ain't it great to be old, Rick?

I still have a bunch of these. I used to use them as bookmarks.

Mary MMM

[JT Dancer]

I thought I was a cranky old b***h until I heard some of this stuff, including TVG. Geez, people!

You and me both.

On BC Friday, we had a family who had never been to the track sitting next to us. They were very nice and had no clue how to read the program, bet, understand payouts, etc. and had questions all day, which I was happy to answer. I would have liked to have someone answer my questions when I first got into racing, so I always try to remember that and help when I can.

[Horse's Rear]

I would have liked to have someone answer my questions when I first got into racing, so I always try to remember that and help when I can.
I know just what you mean.

I always answer the first twelve questions as helpfully as I can. After that, I just give them this web address and tell them that there are friendly people here waiting to answer their questions--especially if they are willing to say which famous horse they love the most.

[Bickersons]

They want to pick and choose, as in, they only care about bettors, not fans. Ken Rudulph and Matt Corothers (sp?) were sneering about this on TVG about a week ago; said something like, "these are people who read Black Beauty but don't know anything about competition and handicapping." I wanted to say, well excuse the heck out of me, when did these things become mutually exclusive, and who are you to be gatekeepers as to who can be in your horse racing super secret tree house club?

I grew up drawing pictures and reading about horses, when I couldn't actually ride them at a relative's farm. And along with that, I was a little wise guy kid who operated a book from the second grade and took bets with my school friends, not only on horse racing, but boxing and baseball. It was a nice little income for an 8 year old. I read the Louisville Courier Journal every day and kept a notebook on winners from Churchill Downs, Keeneland, and Latonia (now called Turfway Park.) So don't give me this stereotypical crap that any little girl, boy, or adult who loves horsies isn't interested in competition and handicapping. Or that every bettor is a cold reptile who doesn't care about animals.

But if an old blind lady wants to hold a statue of an angel in her hands and pray that a horse comes home safely in her race (as I posted about earlier in this thread), who are we to tell her she can't, that she's not worthy of enjoying horse racing?

Mary MMM

Another great post that I will no doubt be quoting all over the place. This is a GREAT thread. Now, I have MonmouthGuy hidden, but based on y'all who have quoted him, it's his insinuation with which I take issue. And there's a very easy comparison to make -- genre fans who look down on Twilight fans. Genre fans have always had one common enemy -- furries -- but their recent enmity has been focused on the tween girls who are just in love with Twilight. Somehow, genre fans feel that they are free to bash and abuse these girls. And like MonmouthGuy's post, there is more than a little misogyny at work here.

To hardened bettors -- and really, that is all they are -- the idea that there are women who are drawn to racing because of the horses makes them projectile vomit. These women don't belong, because they haven't been drawn in the right way. And apparently, the "right way" involves some form of betting. I utterly love the posts in this thread about novices asking for advice on how to bet, or answering questions for newbies. Anybody who helps out gets a gold star from me. I learned everything on my own, and I didn't had a track to go to. I learned it all from books, newspaper articles, network racing coverage and finally the Bloodhorse. But given how the world is now, with a million different things pulling people in so many directions, it's both easier and more frustrating for people to get involved with racing. At Santa Anita, they have handicapping seminars, but they don't have anything that actually involves people with the horses, and that's too bad. The Seabiscuit tour is an attempt but nobody is really going that extra mile to entice new fans. TV coverage doesn't help, either. A novice isn't going to tune into TVG or HRTV, and if they turn on ESPN, they will likely see Hank Goldberg. He's enough to put anyone off his lunch.

Marketing is basically what the world has become, and horse racing has no concept of this. The sport is missing a huge opportunity, and to ask racing afficionados to do their work for them is seriously unfair.

Look, I have to put up with you people who have no concept of how to interpret a horse's body language during the running of a race (hey, Andy Beyer). It would behoove you to put up with people who have come to the sport because they like the pretty ponies. Because one day, someone who likes those pretty ponies is going to learn enough to kick your *** in the Pick Six. And that's only GOOD for racing.

I love this thread. Love love love.

[islandgirl45]

I know just what you mean.

I always answer the first twelve questions as helpfully as I can. After that, I just give them this web address and tell them that there are friendly people here waiting to answer their questions--especially if they are willing to say which famous horse they love the most.

And then you laugh when you hear their frightened whimpers. You devil.

[Horse's Rear]

And then you laugh when you hear their frightened whimpers. You devil.

Are you kidding? Most of them are still here: six months after their first dumb question, they are answering with great authority and sneering at those who don't "know" what they do.

But you are right about the laughter part.

[Rick1323]

Ain't it great to be old, Rick?

Speak for yourself. I got all my racing history right here. I became a fan when Barbaro was born.

[GinTalking]

Just like a football fan, decked out in weird clothing and painted face, screaming for his/her team and favorite players? And what exactly is the age cutoff as to who is allowed to enjoy sports?



;-) I think they're nuts too, mostly because I hate being cold ... but for the most part, they are up in the stands and not in the locker room with the players expecting to have their photo taken with Tom Brady.

I don't mind at all hearing folks screaming at the top of their lungs for a horse to win a race. In fact, I prefer it to what a day at the track is like these days. I'm lonely out there when there are not a lot of loud voices surrounding me.

It's the whimpering, crying, sappy, "oh sweetie" stuff that gets me. I think the age cut off for that is maybe 26 (hahahaha).

I don't see any of those people at the track on a regular basis and lord knows, I'm at a race track a lot. As someone wrote later in this thread, there are people like that at Saratoga and Del Mar, but what I read is that there are people who are betting on races who don't know very much about it, who take too much time trying to decide who to bet on and how to place the bet ... and that irritates Rick et al. Those aren't the folks I was describing.

How many people with Zenyatta, Rachel or Barbaro t-shirts do you see standing in line betting. My guess is not many. So I think these are separate issues. Rick's people are just rookie racegoers, fans if you will; the others aren't fans, they're fanatics. We actually want the rookie racegoers at the track because at least they are making an effort to put some money into the game.

One thing about the football folks. They've paid an enormous amount of money to park their cars. They've paid through the nose for those tickets ... in some cases many hundreds of dollars, just to get in. They'll spend money on beer and hotdogs. They may buy shirts and hats and rubber fingers too. By the time they've left, they could easily have spent anywhere from $100 to five or ten times that.

One of these tickets? This was from my decoupage days back in the '70s and that ticket is the loser of the two in the $5 8-9, 9-8 box, my first winning exacta bet.

[Horse's Rear]

In all sincerity, I think the racetrack lost a lot of its charm and appeal when it went to the more cost-effective, generic, computer-generated tote tickets of today. In terms of cost, convenience, and flexibility, of course, the modern ticket is essential to the industry; and there is no going back. But even today, looking back at those old losers, a traditional tote ticket has not only aesthetic appeal, but a kind of alluring mystery--a unique and colorful patterning of possibility. Walking through a cavernous grandstand with a concrete floor littered with the multi-colored confetti of discarded dreams made you want to step up under the warm glow of the light bulb hanging just over the "seller" window and buy yourself a small sliver of color-coded opportunity. Today, what you get looks like receipt churned out by the local gas pump.

[Dave in TJMex]

In all sincerity, I think the racetrack lost a lot of its charm and appeal when it went to the more cost-effective, generic, computer-generated tote tickets of today. In terms of cost, convenience, and flexibility, of course, the modern ticket is essential to the industry; and there is no going back. But even today, looking back at those old losers, a traditional tote ticket has not only aesthetic appeal, but a kind of alluring mystery--a unique and colorful patterning of possibility. Walking through a cavernous grandstand with a concrete floor littered with the multi-colored confetti of discarded dreams made you want to step up under the warm glow of the light bulb hanging just over the "seller" window and buy yourself a small sliver of color-coded opportunity. Today, what you get looks like receipt churned out by the local gas pump.

Well-stated.

Occasionally, I will look in my "in box" at home and find an old wagering voucher or betting voucher mixed in with other receipts for various purchases I have made. They are just that generic.

Yes, the old, colorful betting tickets were cool!

[djnorth]

After looking at these posts, I'm still puzzled by the vitriol from the "players" about the fanatics. If they're not betting they're not tying up the windows, right? And if they're betting absurd emotional picks, the odds on the one you like go up, right?

I guess I'm a hybrid of sorts. I bet and actually prefer the machines to the tellers, except for cashing out. (Yeah, I do sometimes!) I also like the photos and stuff like that. I have some t-shirts as well. (However, in NE OH, you like sweatshirts!) I don't tend to get as emotional petting a horse but some of them (Zenyatta though I only saw her at the BC and John Henry at the KHP) exude a charm and greatness that is palpable. For the people who don't get it, and say, "Just a horse." I always ask how many people they know have accomplished what they have. It gets very quiet after that! (FWIW, Carl Nafzger always said that Unbridled and the other Fappianos he knew were people horses. He said that U "had more kids on his back than jockeys" and he seemed to get a big kick out of that!)

I was lucky in that my dad played (and still plays) horses and gave me all the old DRF to look at. Now he'll ask me about pedigrees and stuff.

Thistledown had these Saturday morning meetings where breeders, jockeys, vets etc would talk to fans and they gave out (weak) coffee and (stale) donuts. However, the people they invited were great to the fans. They even had horse farm tours arranged. Pretty good for a "nothing" track at the time. They even managed to snag some national names for those (Morning Glory sessions) during the OH Derby. Chris Linicoln form ESPN, Lukas, Sonny Hine etc. They were all gracious. Those types of things no longer exist here.

I cop to the "degenerate gambler" tag but have no interest in any other form of gambling, other than the occasional lottery ticket (yeah, I know!). The casinos with their headache-inducing lights and sounds, and the games with their often pseudo-masterbatory repetitive motions, don't work for me at all. I like betting the horses, because I care about the results for more than the reason that I've got money on it! And I'd probably follow the races and attend even if I couldn't bet.

[Horse's Rear]

A Pretty good for a "nothing" track at the time.
That must have been during DeBartolo's ownership.

[djnorth]

That must have been during DeBartolo's ownership.

Exactly. Also, after the Old Man died, his daughter and son-in-law (an oral surgeon or something like that) ran the three tracks for awhile before they were all sold. I was in school and working weird hours and didn't get there as much as I'd wanted to but my dad said that at least the stands and other aspects of the "fan experience" were great. They had apparently cleaned up the stands and trained personnel to actually be helpful. My dad who had been attending forever by then, went up to one of those staffers and told them what a good job they were doing. (He figured they'd heard all about anything that was wrong so...) They guy was beaming and gave my dad a handful of betting vouchers and coupons and reminded him to let them know if anything wasn't right. That was so cool.

It seemed that they weren't liking the experience because after a short time, along came Frank...

[Legit Campaign]

Well-stated.

Occasionally, I will look in my "in box" at home and find an old wagering voucher or betting voucher mixed in with other receipts for various purchases I have made. They are just that generic.

Yes, the old, colorful betting tickets were cool!

Too much has changed in horse racing.Used to be horses ran legit campaigns to be worthy of winning a horse of the year award.Nowadays they race in restricted races and expect to win the award.What a farce!

[Legit Campaign]

Or run just 5 times!

Yea that extra race that zenyatta ran (5 in restricted company) should be enough to push her over the top.

[Forego]

Thw way some of you sneer and carry on in this thread, you seem to want racing to gp down the toilet. No newbies!! No fans!! Only hardened handicappers and exotics bettors!!

Gimme a break.

I see nothing wrong with the "pretty horsie" fans. They come out every summer - only more so now because of Zenyatta. I introduced many new people to the track this year - their interest was keyed by Zenyatta. A friend who has never been to the track in her life came with me one afternoon as she had been interested in Zenyatta and I had a pass for box seats - and now she cannot wait for the track to open in April. So Monmouth Guy and his ilk can sneer and sling around terms like Zentards and Zealots - and they still fail to see the big picture and will likely never see it... :suspicious:

I was at the paddock at Emerald Downs this summer explaining to a few complete strangers how to read the program and how to bet (and explaining the lip chains) when a short - maybe 14.1 HH at the most - filly paraded by who was so astonishingly... well, CUTE... that she made you look twice. Or maybe three times. She was on her toes and prancing and jigging and dappled - and her face was CUTE, demmit. Her PPs were not indicative of much, though. I pointed that out to my little band and then noted that she was dropping in class and stretching out - and had to explain that. My advice was never bet The Cute just based on Cute. And then I said But Sometimes... it's called playing a hunch.

Well, The Cute won easily under a handride at about 7-1.

Those people were delighted - and I saw some of them at the track over the following weeks as well.

And standing under the simulcast monitors at Emerald Downs in a huge crowd as Zenyatta raced and won down at Del Mar - all of us urging her on and breathing as one and seeing even the hardened horseplayers turn to complete strangers and say... Wow...

I think I said this about a hundred pages back but Zenyatta did more for racing this year than the NTRA has done in 25 years.

Yes, I may cringe inwardly when I am at rhe rail at the paddock and the woman next to me is snapping photos of every horse that comes past and trilling to them about what a pretty princess they are (insulting to the colts and geldings, I am sure) ... but I also recognize that she paid to be there. She may bet a few times. And few more times on her next visit. She may buy a tshirt or six. And who the hell am I to declare she should not be there?

Even if she thought the tongue tie was some kind of an ID tag.. :ohwell:

ETA: Whose alter is Legit Campaign? *snort*

[Legit Campaign]

trouble is those 'pretty horsie fans' don't bet and without the handle being helped the sport will not be helped.with Zenyatta retired they will all disappear.

[Railbird]

Granted, a lot of the "pretty horsey" fans may very well disappear into the woodwork. BUT if even just a few of them decided they like the sport as a whole, and want to stick around and learn some more - that's better than none of them sticking around. Maybe some of them saw Uncle Mo or Awesome Feather win on BC weekend and will want to stick around and follow an exciting young horse...and bet on that young horse next time out...and maybe bet another horse that catches their eye on the undercard next time...

Many of us who are "serious" about the sport started out as "pretty horsey" fans. I started out by falling in love with one racehorse. Did I have any clue what a trifecta was at the time? No. But I fell in love with the horses, learned about the sport because of that passion, and over 15 years later, I handicap regularly, I write about racing, and I own a share in a NYB yearling. Everyone has to start somewhere - so I think rather than disparaging new fans, we should be figuring out how to continue to educate them and get them further involved.

Also, if some of the "pretty horsey" fans decide they just love the horses and want to stick around and help facilitate racehorse retirement - that's OK by me. The Mosses are huge supporters of Old Friends, and I know there were at least a few donations to the organization made in Zenyatta's name during BC week.

[Horse's Rear]

Thw way some of you sneer and carry on in this thread, you seem to want racing to gp down the toilet. No newbies!! No fans!! Only hardened handicappers and exotics bettors!!

Gimme a break.

I see nothing wrong with the "pretty horsie" fans. They come out every summer - only more so now because of Zenyatta. I introduced many new people to the track this year - their interest was keyed by Zenyatta. A friend who has never been to the track in her life came with me one afternoon as she had been interested in Zenyatta and I had a pass for box seats - and now she cannot wait for the track to open in April. So Monmouth Guy and his ilk can sneer and sling around terms like Zentards and Zealots - and they still fail to see the big picture and will likely never see it...

I certainly see nothing wrong with "pretty horsie" fans. I don't always think well of their opinions, but that is just as likely to be true of the opinions of bettors as well. In my experience bettors tend to be every bit as fervent in their opinions about horses as non-bettors; though I think there opinions are usually more oriented toward the animal-as-athlete, rather than to the animal-as-aesthetic-object. But, other than that, I don't think that there is a lot of difference. Except in terms of how much they contribute materially to prolonging the sport's demise.

[Rick1323]

Yea that extra race that zenyatta ran (5 in restricted company) should be enough to push her over the top.

I assume you will just go away when the HOTY voting is over?

[BARNFOUR]

I assume you will just go away when the HOTY voting is over?

Why would he/she go away?LC will most likely have a victory party....

[violabella]

trouble is those 'pretty horsie fans' don't bet and without the handle being helped the sport will not be helped.with Zenyatta retired they will all disappear.


They don't? You know this for a fact? But ALL the folks involved in the industry bet ALL the time, right?

And this whole "they'll leave now that Zenyatta is retired" line really bothers me. It's as if there will never, ever, ever be another horse that captures the imagination of the general public. Please. Remember when folks said that after Smarty Jones retired? Or when Barbaro died? While I believe it will be a while until we see another horse with the same depth of quality and accessibility to the general public like Zenyatta was, I am not foolish enough to think that no other horse will come around and ignite excitement in the sport. Who knows, maybe we'll get another superstar faster than we think- after the brilliance of Secretariat, who would have thought that we would have Affirmed, Alydar, Seattle Slew and Spectacular Bid less than 5-7 years later.

[Horse's Rear]

Don't forget Forego, Foolish Pleasure, Wajima and Ruffian.

[Rick1323]

They don't? You know this for a fact? But ALL the folks involved in the industry bet ALL the time, right?

And this whole "they'll leave now that Zenyatta is retired" line really bothers me. It's as if there will never, ever, ever be another horse that captures the imagination of the general public. Please. Remember when folks said that after Smarty Jones retired? Or when Barbaro died? While I believe it will be a while until we see another horse with the same depth of quality and accessibility to the general public like Zenyatta was, I am not foolish enough to think that no other horse will come around and ignite excitement in the sport. Who knows, maybe we'll get another superstar faster than we think- after the brilliance of Secretariat, who would have thought that we would have Affirmed, Alydar, Seattle Slew and Spectacular Bid less than 5-7 years later.

Fair point. I wonder if the Barbaro/Smarty/Zenyatta fan is the same person?

It would be interesting to study each group and see if any are still interested in racing. How many have gone to the track this year? How many made a bet? If none of them have, racing has virtually no future when my generation dies off.

[islandgirl45]

;-) I think they're nuts too, mostly because I hate being cold ... but for the most part, they are up in the stands and not in the locker room with the players expecting to have their photo taken with Tom Brady.

I don't mind at all hearing folks screaming at the top of their lungs for a horse to win a race. In fact, I prefer it to what a day at the track is like these days. I'm lonely out there when there are not a lot of loud voices surrounding me.

It's the whimpering, crying, sappy, "oh sweetie" stuff that gets me. I think the age cut off for that is maybe 26 (hahahaha).

I don't see any of those people at the track on a regular basis and lord knows, I'm at a race track a lot. As someone wrote later in this thread, there are people like that at Saratoga and Del Mar, but what I read is that there are people who are betting on races who don't know very much about it, who take too much time trying to decide who to bet on and how to place the bet ... and that irritates Rick et al. Those aren't the folks I was describing.

How many people with Zenyatta, Rachel or Barbaro t-shirts do you see standing in line betting. My guess is not many. So I think these are separate issues. Rick's people are just rookie racegoers, fans if you will; the others aren't fans, they're fanatics. We actually want the rookie racegoers at the track because at least they are making an effort to put some money into the game.

One thing about the football folks. They've paid an enormous amount of money to park their cars. They've paid through the nose for those tickets ... in some cases many hundreds of dollars, just to get in. They'll spend money on beer and hotdogs. They may buy shirts and hats and rubber fingers too. By the time they've left, they could easily have spent anywhere from $100 to five or ten times that.

One of these tickets? This was from my decoupage days back in the '70s and that ticket is the loser of the two in the $5 8-9, 9-8 box, my first winning exacta bet.

Let's see, I have a Jimmy Buffett T-shirt, several Miami Boat Show T-shirts, and I think I still have one from years ago when some friends and I went to see Paul McCartney at the Citrus Bowl. OMG, If only I'd realized those T-shirts were the mark of a fanatic! Alas, I guess it's too late now.:rolleyes:

[djnorth]

I also have a virtual collection of Springsteen t shirts Wait, I AM a fanatic...but have chucked many dollars Bruce's way.

Is that good?

[Curlin]

My issue with the treatment of so-called "pretty pony" types has zero to do with whether they contribute to the game. That's a separate issue altogether. My problem is, many of us are not "insiders," and many of the non-insiders aren't just pretty poniers, there are plenty who do wager as well. I don't understand the disdain and condescension in general that's aimed at the non-owner, non-breeder, non-trainer, non-rider, non-backsider. Show me how many of those over 50 degenerate gamblers at the track actually work in the industry itself, and I'll show you a vast minority.

Al Michaels and Howard Cosell didn't do a bad job of calling football games, yet I'll bet neither of them played a single game in their lives. Yet many of those in horse racing treat those outside the game like they don't know sh!t from sh!inola, and when some of those on the outside wish to learn, all they get is a hefty dose of disdain.

It's interesting that at the track, whether it's at Clocker's Corner at SA or while visiting any of the barns, the horsemen and women never act this way; the attitude seems to proliferate more online simply because most of the rude people are simply too chicken to be rude in person. Bwak!

As a point in fact, I met one person from TBC who was widely known as a rude boy and had been banned countless times. In person, he's the nicest guy you'd want to know. I won't share his handle because I wouldn't want to ruin his image.

Sorry for the tangent, we should get back to talking about Queen Z and not this peripheral BS. When I see the snow today at Turfway, I think of poor Z shivering in her stall wondering *** she's doing there! ;)

[Horse's Rear]

I don't understand the disdain and condescension in general that's aimed at the non-owner, non-breeder, non-trainer, non-rider, non-backsider.

It's interesting that at the track, whether it's at Clocker's Corner at SA or while visiting any of the barns, the horsemen and women never act this way; the attitude seems to proliferate more online simply because most of the rude people are simply too chicken to be rude in person.

I couldn't agree with you more, except I think that the issue just as much that the "disdain and condescension" you experience is simply imagined. Believe it or not, I have heard of posters here who interpreted comments as conveying disdain where no disdain was intended, and conversational styles were simply misunderstood.

kumbaya / Oh Lord, kumbayah . . .

[islandgirl45]

My issue with the treatment of so-called "pretty pony" types has zero to do with whether they contribute to the game. That's a separate issue altogether. My problem is, many of us are not "insiders," and many of the non-insiders aren't just pretty poniers, there are plenty who do wager as well. I don't understand the disdain and condescension in general that's aimed at the non-owner, non-breeder, non-trainer, non-rider, non-backsider. Show me how many of those over 50 degenerate gamblers at the track actually work in the industry itself, and I'll show you a vast minority.

Al Michaels and Howard Cosell didn't do a bad job of calling football games, yet I'll bet neither of them played a single game in their lives. Yet many of those in horse racing treat those outside the game like they don't know sh!t from sh!inola, and when some of those on the outside wish to learn, all they get is a hefty dose of disdain.

It's interesting that at the track, whether it's at Clocker's Corner at SA or while visiting any of the barns, the horsemen and women never act this way; the attitude seems to proliferate more online simply because most of the rude people are simply too chicken to be rude in person. Bwak!

As a point in fact, I met one person from TBC who was widely known as a rude boy and had been banned countless times. In person, he's the nicest guy you'd want to know. I won't share his handle because I wouldn't want to ruin his image.

Sorry for the tangent, we should get back to talking about Queen Z and not this peripheral BS. When I see the snow today at Turfway, I think of poor Z shivering in her stall wondering *** she's doing there! ;)

^Well said. I originally started following Z's career toward the end of 2008. That got me more interested in the sport and I began following other horses, so now I have a virtual stable with several trainers and dozens of horses, including many promising 2-year-olds that were pointed out here on TBC. On bigger race days, I also bet through XpressBet, although certainly not to the extent of TBC's "pros." I don't have an excess of disposable income to risk in big bets.

Despite what I mentioned above, which should be enough to "contribute" in my own way to the sport, I find myself and others who just happened to follow Zenyatta's career labeled as "fanatics," "stupid," "nut jobs," "crazies," "cat-hoarders" and the like. True, some of these epithets are spewed by TBC's resident haters, but I also see them pitched by those who should know better.

That's why I started the topic about this behavior. And I'm happy to see others stand up and say the same things.

[PJMIII]

It's interesting that at the track, whether it's at Clocker's Corner at SA or while visiting any of the barns, the horsemen and women never act this way; the attitude seems to proliferate more online simply because most of the rude people are simply too chicken to be rude in person.
Well said. A lot of Internet warriors are a lot braver with a keyboard than they would be face to face. This particular subject probably demonstrates that more than most.

[moonwalker]

I think they're nuts too, mostly because I hate being cold ... but for the most part, they are up in the stands and not in the locker room with the players expecting to have their photo taken with Tom Brady. I had my picture taken twice with Zenyatta at Churchill Downs, once invited by Dottie Shirreffs, once by Steve Willard. They said, whoever wants their picture made, stand here. There was no one fainting and screaming hysterically and running at the horse drooling, as you want to imagine. I'm sure the truth is hard for some men to take, but both men and women stood in line to visit Zenyatta and were polite and respectful. The women were not throwing their arms around the horse and licking her. Only one person that I saw kissed her on the nose -- and that was a man, Steve Haskin.

I was in the barn area at Churchill because I had a friend with an owner's license. At Hollywood Park, John Shirreffs would sign people in to see Zenyatta. I didn't even know that was possible when I visited California or Hot Springs. I've never visited the barn area of a racetrack before, and didn't think to ask. John Shirreffs encouraged people to see Zenyatta, and he's a smarter man than most. Unlike some of the hard core gambler types, he knows that being exclusionary doesn't help the sport. *Everyone* who wanted to like horse racing, even if that like is started by seeing an impressive horse, was welcome. Even gamblers.

To sum up, I am in the exact demographic to be most hated by male bettors: I'm female, over 40, I love horses, I take pictures, I own a cat who even travels with me. Yet, I did not launch myself at the horse during the race wanting to pet her. So sorry to disappoint. The only people I have heard of running on the track during the race were the guy who jumped out at Artax, a couple of youths during the Kentucky Derby in the 70's, and Bill Nack -- all men. Your stereotypes, like most stereotypes, are rude, condescending, and say more about the person doing the sneering than they do the ones being sneered at. Perhaps some therapy would help your deep seated problems, which considering the target, seem to have to do with your mothers.

And I bet. In fact the money I used to visit Zenyatta in California and Kentucky was made from betting on the Kentucky Derby. I parlayed a $200 lottery ticket into a win ticket on Super Saver. I spent that money on Breeders' Cup tickets and travel. I only wish I could have bought that win ticket through a home betting account, instead of having to travel 70 miles to an OTB in Denver. But alas, Colorado is a nanny state where busybody churchy types like to tell me what I can do with the money I work for and earn, and they say online betting is illegal. Thus except for summer, when Arapahoe Park is open on weekends, it is cost prohibitive for me to be anything but a FAN in Colorado. Your target of disdain is mistaken -- if anything, point fingers at nannying state governments who keep people from betting, not women who like horses who might take up betting if they were allowed.

Mary MMM

[daisy]

For those who don't get the Thoroughbred Times, editor Mark Simon in this week's edition called for Zenyatta's immediate induction into the Hall of Fame - no 5 year waiting period.

I can go for that. Better than the horses that are on the ballot again and again and again until they finally get in. Or sticking Point Given in there.

[Horse's Rear]

Why the rush?

Is he afraid she will be forgotten in five year?

[CoronadosQuest]

Maybe they want to give her some more help to beat Blame for HOTY?

[islandgirl45]

I had my picture taken twice with Zenyatta at Churchill Downs, once invited by Dottie Shirreffs, once by Steve Willard. They said, whoever wants their picture made, stand here. There was no one fainting and screaming hysterically and running at the horse drooling, as you want to imagine. I'm sure the truth is hard for some men to take, but both men and women stood in line to visit Zenyatta and were polite and respectful. The women were not throwing their arms around the horse and licking her. Only one person that I saw kissed her on the nose -- and that was a man, Steve Haskin.

I was in the barn area at Churchill because I had a friend with an owner's license. At Hollywood Park, John Shirreffs would sign people in to see Zenyatta. I didn't even know that was possible when I visited California or Hot Springs. I've never visited the barn area of a racetrack before, and didn't think to ask. John Shirreffs encouraged people to see Zenyatta, and he's a smarter man than most. Unlike some of the hard core gambler types, he knows that being exclusionary doesn't help the sport. *Everyone* who wanted to like horse racing, even if that like is started by seeing an impressive horse, was welcome. Even gamblers.

To sum up, I am in the exact demographic to be most hated by male bettors: I'm female, over 40, I love horses, I take pictures, I own a cat who even travels with me. Yet, I did not launch myself at the horse during the race wanting to pet her. So sorry to disappoint. The only people I have heard of running on the track during the race were the guy who jumped out at Artax, a couple of youths during the Kentucky Derby in the 70's, and Bill Nack -- all men. Your stereotypes, like most stereotypes, are rude, condescending, and say more about the person doing the sneering than they do the ones being sneered at. Perhaps some therapy would help your deep seated problems, which considering the target, seem to have to do with your mothers.

And I bet. In fact the money I used to visit Zenyatta in California and Kentucky was made from betting on the Kentucky Derby. I parlayed a $200 lottery ticket into a win ticket on Super Saver. I spent that money on Breeders' Cup tickets and travel. I only wish I could have bought that win ticket through a home betting account, instead of having to travel 70 miles to an OTB in Denver. But alas, Colorado is a nanny state where busybody churchy types like to tell me what I can do with the money I work for and earn, and they say online betting is illegal. Thus except for summer, when Arapahoe Park is open on weekends, it is cost prohibitive for me to be anything but a FAN in Colorado. Your target of disdain is mistaken -- if anything, point fingers at nannying state governments who keep people from betting, not women who like horses who might take up betting if they were allowed.

Mary MMM

So, if you live in Colorado you can't place bets on XpressBet or any of the online betting places? I had no idea Colorado had such a religious bent. I guess they don't have a state lottery, then...Oh, wait. http://www.coloradolottery.com/ :evil:

[moonwalker]

So, if you live in Colorado you can't place bets on XpressBet or any of the online betting places? I had no idea Colorado had such a religious bent. I guess they don't have a state lottery, then...Oh, wait. http://www.coloradolottery.com/ :evil:

As I mentioned in the post I wrote that you highlighted above, I won the money I bet on Super Saver in a lottery. And yes, as I mentioned in the post that you highlighted, online horse betting is not legal in Colorado. I cannot get an online account, and I can't lie and say I live in a different state; I've tried that, they want you to send a xerox of your driver's license to get an account. And yes, at this time I live in Colorado Springs, home of Focus on the Family and Ted Haggard's New Life Church.

Mary MMM

[islandgirl45]

As I mentioned in the post I wrote that you highlighted above, I won the money I bet on Super Saver in a lottery. And yes, as I mentioned in the post that you highlighted, online horse betting is not legal in Colorado. I cannot get an online account, and I can't lie and say I live in a different state; I've tried that, they want you to send a xerox of your driver's license to get an account. And yes, at this time I live in Colorado Springs, home of Focus on the Family and Ted Haggard's New Life Church.

Mary MMM

I saw your lottery reference. I just thought it a bit ironic that they allow a state lottery, but not online betting.

[Rick1323]

I think people are rolling into one two very distinct groups. There are fans and then there are nuts. I don't think anyone here is one of the nuts, and I don't think anyone is talking about all fans when they talk of the nuts.

As I said earlier, I co exist easily with novice fans. I am more than willing to show them the ropes, point out scratches, tell them how to place a wager, even point to the nearest restroom. The "nuts" do nothing for me, or the game. The false emotion is coupled with short arms that can't reach thier wallets to bet.

[moonwalker]

I saw your lottery reference. I just thought it a bit ironic that they allow a state lottery, but not online betting.

I've long since given up trying to figure out how these Colorado people think (or don't.)

Mary MMM

[Spahny]

About 26 percent of Americans have a diagnosable mental disorder, studies show.

I think a number of them are making it to the race track a few times a week. And they are doing very well with it.

The list includes:

Mood disorders; check
Dysthymic disorder (mild depression); check
Bi-Polar; CHECK
Schizophrenia; check
Anxiety disorder; check
OCD; CHECK!!!
Social Phobia (brilliant handicapper disease); check

[Dusty]

Geez....can we PLEASE!!!!!!!GET!!!!!!!!!!!!:focus:

[Forego]

trouble is those 'pretty horsie fans' don't bet and without the handle being helped the sport will not be helped.with Zenyatta retired they will all disappear.

Bullshit. I have been helping the "pretty horsie" types every year... even before Rachel or Z were big names. They have always been there - and as someone mentioned upthread, if it took Zenyatta to bring them out in even greater numbers, only the avowed "haters" could see that as a bad thing...

Apparently LC wanders around the track in a smug haze and does not bother with the "little people"....

[PJMIII]

Geez....can we PLEASE!!!!!!!GET!!!!!!!!!!!!:focus:One can only hope Dusty.

[Horse's Rear]

Maybe Zenyatta followers could take up a collection to have a webcam set up with a view of Zenyatta's paddock.

[EquineAnne]

Bullshit. I have been helping the "pretty horsie" types every year... even before Rachel or Z were big names. They have always been there - and as someone mentioned upthread, if it took Zenyatta to bring them out in even greater numbers, only the avowed "haters" could see that as a bad thing...

Apparently LC wanders around the track in a smug haze and does not bother with the "little people"....

I can vouch for the "pretty horsie" types betting. Just check the $$ that have flown out my window on Twin Spires since Funny won the Derby.

[islandgirl45]

Geez....can we PLEASE!!!!!!!GET!!!!!!!!!!!!:focus:
Happy to help out with that. How's this? Zenyatta fandom has reached Guam.

Good races end with dignified losses
By Patrick Sullivan • December 13, 2010

"The recent Guam gubernatorial election was just about as exciting as the 2010 Breeders' Cup in early November. In case you are not familiar with the race, the creme de la creme of horses compete for top honors and a purse valued in the millions........."

http://www.guampdn.com/article/20101213/OPINION02/12130313

[Horse's Rear]

From the article:


At times it is difficult to admit defeat -- we are clouded by bruised egos, emotions and wounded pride.

We must put the animosity, the feelings of ill will behind us and unite as a community for the good of all.

What's good for Guam is good for America.

[firehorse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjeTllR1CBA&feature=player_embedded

[moonwalker]

Glad to see the forum back!

My Zenyatta videos from Keeneland, 12/6/10. Finally got the software so I could get them off the camera and upload to YouTube.

Zenyatta arrives at Keeneland 12/6/10 (1 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ulGanvPgiE

Zenyatta dances at Keeneland, Mike Smith salutes her, Mr. and Mrs. Moss thank crowd 12/6/10 (2 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piSc12l7r1g

John Shirreffs leads Zenyatta at Keeneland, people reach out to touch her 12/6/10 (3 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMJGyaE21S0

Mike Smith hugs Zenyatta goodbye at Keeneland 12/6/10 (4 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVL5M2zpATk

Mary MMM

[PJMIII]

Zenyatta Adapting Smoothly to Farm Life

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60293/zenyatta-adapting-smoothly-to-farm-life

[Native Diver]

Zenyatta Adapting Smoothly to Farm Life

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60293/zenyatta-adapting-smoothly-to-farm-life

Thank you for posting this link. It's reassuring to read that she is adapting well and isn't suffering from any homesickness or undue stress. I know it's silly, but I've worried for her. As he says, she is a very intelligent mare, and in my experience the more intelligent horses tend to know how to take care of themselves (generally speaking).

[PJMIII]

Glad to see the forum back!

My Zenyatta videos from Keeneland, 12/6/10. Finally got the software so I could get them off the camera and upload to YouTube.

Zenyatta arrives at Keeneland 12/6/10 (1 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ulGanvPgiE

Zenyatta dances at Keeneland, Mike Smith salutes her, Mr. and Mrs. Moss thank crowd 12/6/10 (2 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piSc12l7r1g

John Shirreffs leads Zenyatta at Keeneland, people reach out to touch her 12/6/10 (3 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMJGyaE21S0

Mike Smith hugs Zenyatta goodbye at Keeneland 12/6/10 (4 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVL5M2zpATk

Mary MMM
Very nice Mary. Thanks for sharing.

[JT Dancer]

http://zipseatthetrack.blogspot.com/2010/12/zenyatta-and-ghost-of-native-dancer.html

[EquineAnne]

http://zipseatthetrack.blogspot.com/2010/12/zenyatta-and-ghost-of-native-dancer.html

I hope he's right.

[JT Dancer]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/12/18/zenyatta-second-in-ap-female-athlete-voting.aspx

[Legit Campaign]

Bullshit. I have been helping the "pretty horsie" types every year... even before Rachel or Z were big names. They have always been there - and as someone mentioned upthread, if it took Zenyatta to bring them out in even greater numbers, only the avowed "haters" could see that as a bad thing...

Apparently LC wanders around the track in a smug haze and does not bother with the "little people"....

yes i stay away from little people with small minds.

who hates zenyatta?i think most like zenyatts but would have liked her better if the people picking her races would have raced her in open company.the greenies and pretty horsie types new to the sport didn't know they were getting cheated.

[Hermes]

yes i stay away from little people with small minds.

who hates zenyatta?i think most like zenyatts but would have liked her better if the people picking her races would have raced her in open company.the greenies and pretty horsie types new to the sport didn't know they were getting cheated.

Actually your small mind probably can not wrap around the concept that the love for Z was introduced by her long held undefeated record, and then once introduced to her one of a kind personality and connections, the rapture increased. Running her in open company may or may not have extended that record, we won't ever know. But we do know that the Mosses and John Shirreffs introduced more folks to the sport, made them feel welcome, educated them, and let them be a part of something larger than life more so than any simple minded jaded "horse player" has ever done for any single person.

That you are too small to comprehend what Zenyatta is or meant to the sport is not a surprise, but it would be nice if you would go away now to a very cold place and wear a lip chain, too.

[Legit Campaign]

Actually your small mind probably can not wrap around the concept that the love for Z was introduced by her long held undefeated record, and then once introduced to her one of a kind personality and connections, the rapture increased. Running her in open company may or may not have extended that record, we won't ever know. But we do know that the Mosses and John Shirreffs introduced more folks to the sport, made them feel welcome, educated them, and let them be a part of something larger than life more so than any simple minded jaded "horse player" has ever done for any single person.

That you are too small to comprehend what Zenyatta is or meant to the sport is not a surprise, but it would be nice if you would go away now to a very cold place and wear a lip chain, too.

i knew you didn't know much.you didn't realize you got cheated.i realize zenyatta was good for the sport but she should have been so much more.too bad we all got cheated.

what do you mean go to a very cold place and wear a lip chain?i'm in tampa where it is warm and lip chains are cruel.do you put one on your girlfriend?

[Hermes]

i knew you didn't know much.you didn't realize you got cheated.i realize zenyatta was good for the sport but she should have been so much more.too bad we all got cheated.

what do you mean go to a very cold place and wear a lip chain?i'm in tampa where it is warm and lip chains are cruel.do you put one on your girlfriend?

LOL. Not if you know how to use one, it isn't. But playing dumb is an easy act for you, isn't it?

On Z, if you think you were cheated, you should just stop watching the sport IMO. It isn't like you are following along very well anyway.

[Legit Campaign]

LOL. Not if you know how to use one, it isn't. But playing dumb is an easy act for you, isn't it?

On Z, if you think you were cheated, you should just stop watching the sport IMO. It isn't like you are following along very well anyway.

we were all cheated.except for the classic.when a horse enters the same races for three years where you know the result before the race is run it's not interesting.ok she had a winning streak.so did peppers pride.it could have been so much more but mosses wanted to remain undefeated.not a lc.a chicken poop schedule.should have had more cohones like jackson and rachel last year.that was a LC!

[Hermes]

we were all cheated.except for the classic.when a horse enters the same races for three years where you know the result before the race is run it's not interesting.ok she had a winning streak.so did peppers pride.it could have been so much more but mosses wanted to remain undefeted.not a lc.a chicken poop schedule.should have had more cohones like jackson and rachel last year.that was a LC!


Maybe SC will bring you a space bar and if you are really jolly good, a shift key?
What races of Z's did you watch this year where you knew the result at the top of the stretch except for the Apple Blossom?

[Legit Campaign]

Maybe SC will bring you a space bar and if you are really jolly good, a shift key?
What races of Z's did you watch this year where you knew the result at the top of the stretch except for the Apple Blossom?

none.on paper 1/9 or 1/5 but just did enough to win.very overrated for a horse that had a long winning streak.had she run a rachel like schedule from last year zenyatta would have finished with 2 or 3 losses.but they chose to take the easy route and cheat her fans and the sport.

i don't need santa to bring me a shift key.i'm multitasking right now,could care less about caps.if it bothers you imagine the caps are there.you seem to have a good imagination.

[Allspice]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/AniAmi14/112a5o4.gif

Hermes, don't answer the troll. Someone who types so badly that it is a chore to read what they are writing doesn't deserve an answer anyway.

[Legit Campaign]

put a lip chain on it allspacecadet and mr ed too

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorseInfo.cfm?refno=881881&registry=T

[Hermes]

Fair point Allspice.

Maybe HB can track down the troll's origin for us, though, so I can tell him that everyone sucks at multitasking, especially elderly misogynists from Florida.

[Hermes]

put a lip chain on it allspacecadet and mr ed too

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorseInfo.cfm?refno=881881&registry=T

That's it! Mr. Ed (the poster) is who you remind me of.
Anyway, you are stalking similar to your "neighbor" but how does this surprise? Oh, wait, it doesn't. But it does leave crumbs.;)

[Allspice]

Fair point Allspice.

Maybe HB can track down the troll's origin for us, though, so I can tell him that everyone sucks at multitasking, especially elderly misogynists from Florida.

:lol: Maybe.

As the .gif says:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/AniAmi14/qy60r9.gif

Although I gotta admit..."allspacecadet"? That made me giggle.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/AniAmi14/1581cvq.gif

[Huaka]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/AniAmi14/1581cvq.gif

OMG! Do you like Hamasaki Ayumi and Koda Kumi? Hamasaki Ayumi is my favorite artist ever ! <3.

And to make this on topic, I can't wait until she's actually allowed to run free in a paddock. ^^;;.

[Ty88]

i knew you didn't know much.you didn't realize you got cheated.i realize zenyatta was good for the sport but she should have been so much more.too bad we all got cheated.

And she could have just as easily been bought by someone who wanted only to breed, or hurt herself during training, or broken down, or never faced males. In this sport you take what you get because there are a thousand just as promising animals who never get a tenth as far as she did. It's a matter of grace. Saying her three-season long career consisting of 18 stakes and handicaps was a cheat is an insult not to the mare herself and her connections but to the unknown quality called luck that runs this life.
And I've found the more you insult luck, especially at the track, the more of an a** it decides to make out of you.

[Dusty]

Anyone checked the Zenyatta.com post for today??? After Market??

www.zenyatta.com (http://www.zenyatta.com)

[Ty88]

It's ridiculous, these lines we draw. I mean, look at this horse. Here's a deep closer who won 19 in a row. Silky Sullivan is called what, the greatest deep closer ever? He only managed 12, and not in a row. She runs in 14 grade ones, ten in a row, wins thirteen of them, nine in a row. Call me the next time a horse runs in nine grade ones in a row, let alone wins all of them. Curlin ran in 12, not in a row, won seven. Invasor won six. Saint Liam and Ghostzapper won four, Mineshaft won four. Azeri won eleven--the only Horse of the Year in the past decade who comes close to Zenyatta. Tiznow won four. Apparently four is the magic number. These are their G1 wins for their entire career, not just their Eclipse year. Zenyatta won 13. A cheat, sure.

And don't bring up the competition thing. Secretariat lost to forgettable competition. He had bad days. Zenyatta never had a bad day. That in itself is remarkable. Even more remarkable when you look at her running style. The only race she lost like a closer was the '10 Classic. There were a lot more races she should've lost like that. The fact that she didn't? Remarkable.

Pepper's Pride won 19 but not 17 stakes in a row, not 13 grade ones, not nine of them in a row. Those are the records that matter, not that 19. Zenyatta holds the world record for grade/group ones won in a row. She's the first horse to win two different Breeder's Cup races. First female to win the Classic, and even if another female wins it in the future I have a hard time believing we'll soon see the next mare who wins it one year and runs a close second the next.

She set four speed records, three stakes and one track. Who is the last top horse who set four speed records? No one in this decade. Who is the last closer who set four speed records? I don't know. Is there one?

She finished in front of 19 grade/group one winners in her three BC races. There are more--despite the endless moaning many of her California female races were deep--but I don't feel like looking them up right now. The point is made. The only horse who beat her is a three-time grade one winner. More respectable competition to lose so closely to than previous top horses. More respectable than some all-time greats lost to.

The synthetic stigma, this idea that she hid from top competition (I define showing up at the World Championships three years in a row, where all the top competition is in one place, stepping out of her division two of those years, as definitely not hiding, but I guess I'm crazy) have turned way too many people against an animal whose talent and record haven't been seen for a long time. Not in this decade, not in America. Hopefully history will be kinder than the pot-stirrers. Actually I know it will. 20:19/1/0, 13 G1s, 4 G2s, four speed records, two Breeder's Cup wins, second in a third. Proven handicap horse. That's hard to argue with. I don't know who will want to argue with it. We've got records like that being bandied around over in the greatest-ever threads.

Twenty, thirty years from now, when this urge to deny anything good that comes along has died with the horse herself, that record is going to be held in very high esteem. Definitely a top-20 of the last century. Unless the status quo of racing trends change, definitely a top-10, 99% a top-five, more than likely the top One of this century.

A cheat. Sure. I'm happy when my $4,500 claimers finish a race without dying on track, and you call this mare a cheat. Watch for instant karma. The racing gods know no mercy when it comes to the ungrateful.

[Dusty]

we were all cheated.except for the classic.when a horse enters the same races for three years where you know the result before the race is run it's not interesting.ok she had a winning streak.so did peppers pride.it could have been so much more but mosses wanted to remain undefeated.not a lc.a chicken poop schedule.should have had more cohones like jackson and rachel last year.that was a LC!
I have no idea what your issue is but take it off this thread - we were not cheated - we got to experience the most incredible mare of our lifetime - you NEVER knew the result - and yes they kept her SOUND and they allowed her to mature to a Mare that is frankly one of a kind - to be in her presence was amazing.Yo see her run exhillerating ,,,,Rachel was decimated - to what end? Oh yes it ended her career and broke her spirit - Zenyatta was given time to mature, allowed to become ...the QUEEN...cheated - no - no one was cheated here

[moonwalker]

Anyone checked the Zenyatta.com post for today??? After Market??

www.zenyatta.com (http://www.zenyatta.com)

I saw him at Lane's End at the November open house. He was a handsome dude.

I don't know if it means anything other than Dottie mentioning he's at the same farm and that John used to train him, too, like Life Is Sweet (she's in the mare division of the farm, but with the expecting mares instead of the maiden/barren mares like Zenyatta.)


Mary MMM

[JT Dancer]

Ty88, thanks for that great post.

I think the only ones who can feel cheated by Zenyatta's campaign are the ones who never saw her run in person and have too little imagination to have an idea what watching her run felt like.

The last three years have been a gift I won't ever forget; I am fairly certain that twenty years from now, people will have a major appreciation for all that she accomplished.

Also, I think it's wonderful that Dottie is keeping up a daily blog; there are a lot of people that seem to be following it that don't know much about horses or racing, and once again, the Z team is being generous and patient with time and information.

[Dave in TJMex]

Ty88, excellent post, great perspective, putting Z in some historical context. :)

[EquineAnne]

i knew you didn't know much.you didn't realize you got cheated.i realize zenyatta was good for the sport but she should have been so much more.too bad we all got cheated.



I'll tell you what made me feel cheated. That Rachel ran one year and was gone. Perhaps if her connections did a bit more of what Zen's did, we would still be watching her run. You don't get that, do you?

[Legit Campaign]

I'll tell you what made me feel cheated. That Rachel ran one year and was gone. Perhaps if her connections did a bit more of what Zen's did, we would still be watching her run. You don't get that, do you?

but what a year that was.now that was a legit campaign!that was a hoty campaign!i would rather have filet mignon one night and have pizza the next two than have pizza three straight nights.rachel's 2009 was filet mignon.

[Citation07]

It's ridiculous, these lines we draw. I mean, look at this horse. Here's a deep closer who won 19 in a row. Silky Sullivan is called what, the greatest deep closer ever? He only managed 12, and not in a row. She runs in 14 grade ones, ten in a row, wins thirteen of them, nine in a row. Call me the next time a horse runs in nine grade ones in a row, let alone wins all of them. Curlin ran in 12, not in a row, won seven. Invasor won six. Saint Liam and Ghostzapper won four, Mineshaft won four. Azeri won eleven--the only Horse of the Year in the past decade who comes close to Zenyatta. Tiznow won four. Apparently four is the magic number. These are their G1 wins for their entire career, not just their Eclipse year. Zenyatta won 13. A cheat, sure.

And don't bring up the competition thing. Secretariat lost to forgettable competition. He had bad days. Zenyatta never had a bad day. That in itself is remarkable. Even more remarkable when you look at her running style. The only race she lost like a closer was the '10 Classic. There were a lot more races she should've lost like that. The fact that she didn't? Remarkable.

Pepper's Pride won 19 but not 17 stakes in a row, not 13 grade ones, not nine of them in a row. Those are the records that matter, not that 19. Zenyatta holds the world record for grade/group ones won in a row. She's the first horse to win two different Breeder's Cup races. First female to win the Classic, and even if another female wins it in the future I have a hard time believing we'll soon see the next mare who wins it one year and runs a close second the next.

She set four speed records, three stakes and one track. Who is the last top horse who set four speed records? No one in this decade. Who is the last closer who set four speed records? I don't know. Is there one?

She finished in front of 19 grade/group one winners in her three BC races. There are more--despite the endless moaning many of her California female races were deep--but I don't feel like looking them up right now. The point is made. The only horse who beat her is a three-time grade one winner. More respectable competition to lose so closely to than previous top horses. More respectable than some all-time greats lost to.

The synthetic stigma, this idea that she hid from top competition (I define showing up at the World Championships three years in a row, where all the top competition is in one place, stepping out of her division two of those years, as definitely not hiding, but I guess I'm crazy) have turned way too many people against an animal whose talent and record haven't been seen for a long time. Not in this decade, not in America. Hopefully history will be kinder than the pot-stirrers. Actually I know it will. 20:19/1/0, 13 G1s, 4 G2s, four speed records, two Breeder's Cup wins, second in a third. Proven handicap horse. That's hard to argue with. I don't know who will want to argue with it. We've got records like that being bandied around over in the greatest-ever threads.

Twenty, thirty years from now, when this urge to deny anything good that comes along has died with the horse herself, that record is going to be held in very high esteem. Definitely a top-20 of the last century. Unless the status quo of racing trends change, definitely a top-10, 99% a top-five, more than likely the top One of this century.

A cheat. Sure. I'm happy when my $4,500 claimers finish a race without dying on track, and you call this mare a cheat. Watch for instant karma. The racing gods know no mercy when it comes to the ungrateful.

Thank you so very much for this. Well said! She is an all-time great, no matter how much people will complain about it.

[BigCountry]

Sorry, Andy Serling just told me Ben's Cat's 8-for-8 is more impressive and worthy because it hasn't taken place on synthetic.

Damn, and until then I really thought Zenyatta had done something noteworthy.

[Legit Campaign]

Thank you so very much for this. Well said! She is an all-time great, no matter how much people will complain about it.

yes she is an all time great.yes,one of the greatest of all time.who is complaining about zenyatta?she ran the races they put her in/and ran them well.don't the jockeys beat the six graders at saratoga every year in the charity game?i think the jockeys are undefeated.i'd put them up there with the celtics.

[islandgirl45]

Sorry, Andy Serling just told me Ben's Cat's 8-for-8 is more impressive and worthy because it hasn't taken place on synthetic.

Damn, and until then I really thought Zenyatta had done something noteworthy.

If the numbers of Z's dirt and synth races were flip-flopped, I'm certain you wouldn't hear the whining from folks like LC. It's not hard to glean that meaning from many of the comments.

PS: The content of LC's posts reminds me of one speckled puppy/Draynay although the e.e cummings-style presentation says otherwise. Perhaps the latter trait is a deliberate affectation.

[PJMIII]

Sorry, Andy Serling just told me Ben's Cat's 8-for-8 is more impressive and worthy because it hasn't taken place on synthetic.

Damn, and until then I really thought Zenyatta had done something noteworthy.I guess that's as good a reson as any to stay away from Andy Serling when it come to discussing Zenyatta. :smile:

[BigCountry]

don't the jockeys beat the six graders at saratoga every year in the charity game?i think the jockeys are undefeated.i'd put them up there with the celtics.
Um, no. The jockeys won when the kids were in 5th grade (07) but as 6th graders (08) the kids crushed them.

[Legit Campaign]

PS: The content of LC's posts reminds me of one speckled puppy/Draynay although the e.e cummings-style presentation says otherwise. Perhaps the latter trait is a deliberate affectation.

who dat?

[Horse's Rear]

but what a year that was.now that was a legit campaign!that was a hoty campaign!i would rather have filet mignon one night and have pizza the next two than have pizza three straight nights.rachel's 2009 was filet mignon.
Somebody sold you a thick sirloin burger in disguise. You are whimpering like a schoolgirl over 5 single-restricted Grade 1s, followed by an open G1, then turning around and squealing like the same schoolgirl at a boyband concert over a campaign that included only two single-restricted G1s and one open G1. But as long as you enjoyed it, that's what counts.

[dustino140]

What I don't understand is why people are so hellbent on trying to convince others that their opinion/feelings regarding Zenyatta are wrong. Nobody is 'right' or 'wrong' - if you liked her great, if you didn't great, too - but I just don't understand the incessant bickering about how people should feel about her. But to say somebody isn't a true race fan for not being a huge fan, or saying somebody who thinks she's the greatest ever is stupid, really just doesn't accomplish anything. Let people feel what they want to feel, and everybody can save the time from talking about it to excess. I'd be beyond shocked if anybody added anything 'new' to the conversation at this point - it's all the same recycled back-and-forth from all sides. I more or less bowed out of these 'debates' over a month ago, and while I'm not shocked that they're still going on, I'm surprised some of the people keep fighting about the same things with one another.

[EquineAnne]

but what a year that was.now that was a legit campaign!that was a hoty campaign!i would rather have filet mignon one night and have pizza the next two than have pizza three straight nights.rachel's 2009 was filet mignon.

You ate fillet for a few months. We ate it for 3 years...and had Creme Brulee for dessert. :dance:

[My Flag]

You ate fillet for a few months. We ate it for 3 years...and had Creme Brulee for dessert. :dance:

I have to slap you virtual high-five for that. :rockon:

[SoS]

but what a year that was.now that was a legit campaign!that was a hoty campaign!i would rather have filet mignon one night and have pizza the next two than have pizza three straight nights.rachel's 2009 was filet mignon.

Her 2008 campaign was no pizza - top notch horses (and often several within the same race) in every single race she was in the gate (including on that infamous win on dirt). So she's already proved that she can string together a season full of Grade I wins against legit Grade I competition and, as has already been mentioned, she showed up and performed highly in the single most competitive race(s) for three consecutive years. That's no sauce.

[GinTalking]

I'll tell you what made me feel cheated. That Rachel ran one year and was gone. Perhaps if her connections did a bit more of what Zen's did, we would still be watching her run. You don't get that, do you?

Huh? She ran at two, three and four. But this is Zenyatta's thread.

[Reposmoral]

Guys... this person ("LegitCampaign") is not interested in being convinced of anything, no matter how eloquently and forcefully you present your arguments. They've got an agenda, and they're more interested in needling you than having an honest discussion--a discussion which is SO beat to death, by the way.

I suggest you put them on "ignore" and we all agree--on the Zenyatta thread at least--to ignore this poster.

[GinTalking]

You ate fillet for a few months. We ate it for 3 years...and had Creme Brulee for dessert. :dance:

Why are you continuing with this?

It's filet, and you're a crazy lady. I had a blast watching Rachel, win or lose. You can have your little dessert; I'll take the beef!

I'm responding because I'm insulted that someone else thinks they can talk for me. End.

[islandgirl45]

What I don't understand is why people are so hellbent on trying to convince others that their opinion/feelings regarding Zenyatta are wrong. Nobody is 'right' or 'wrong' - if you liked her great, if you didn't great, too - but I just don't understand the incessant bickering about how people should feel about her. But to say somebody isn't a true race fan for not being a huge fan, or saying somebody who thinks she's the greatest ever is stupid, really just doesn't accomplish anything. Let people feel what they want to feel, and everybody can save the time from talking about it to excess. I'd be beyond shocked if anybody added anything 'new' to the conversation at this point - it's all the same recycled back-and-forth from all sides. I more or less bowed out of these 'debates' over a month ago, and while I'm not shocked that they're still going on, I'm surprised some of the people keep fighting about the same things with one another.

Undeniably true. There is no "fresh idea" about this subject.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I can imagine that what gets folks in a thread titled "Zenyatta News" upset is when someone deliberately trolls here to cr@p on Z and her connections with the same old stuff that you mentioned.

The only possible reason for doing that is to, well, troll, which doesn't produce anything constructive.

[Curlin]

Why are you continuing with this?

It's filet, and you're a crazy lady. I had a blast watching Rachel, win or lose. You can have your little dessert; I'll take the beef!

I'm responding because I'm insulted that someone else thinks they can talk for me. End.

Huh? Where did she speak for you, Gin? It's interesting that you've interjected yourself into this thread with the mention of RA. A little RAbid are we? And calling people crazy? That's a little beneath you, you've been around here for awhile and I'm surprised at your post's tone. EquineAnne was responding to the troll, not hurling invective at you. Wow.

[Harrison Bergeron]

Mind if I interrupt the discussion for a brief commercial announcement for a worthwhile charity?
http://www.tranquilityfarmtbs.org/

http://www.tranquilityfarmtbs.org/images/2011-cover200.jpg

This is a great calendar, 100% of the purchase price goes to the care of the horses because the cost of printing is taken care of by a benefactor.

And Zenyatta is on the cover, & October and December. Mine came yesterday and I just opened it. As usual a well done calendar.

[Allspice]

Why are you continuing with this?

It's filet, and you're a crazy lady. I had a blast watching Rachel, win or lose. You can have your little dessert; I'll take the beef!

I'm responding because I'm insulted that someone else thinks they can talk for me. End.

No one was speaking for you.

[islandgirl45]

Mind if I interrupt the discussion for a brief commercial announcement for a worthwhile charity?
http://www.tranquilityfarmtbs.org/

http://www.tranquilityfarmtbs.org/images/2011-cover200.jpg

This is a great calendar, 100% of the purchase price goes to the care of the horses because the cost of printing is taken care of by a benefactor.

And Zenyatta is on the cover, & October and December. Mine came yesterday and I just opened it. As usual a well done calendar.

Gorgeous photos, and some great shots of the saved horses on the Web site as well.

[Harrison Bergeron]

Gorgeous photos, and some great shots of the saved horses on the Web site as well.

On the actual page of the calendar, below the big pic on the top, is a small photo in the "dead space" of one of their residents, the farm, etc.

I had already been a supporter, but then they took in a broken claimer that I had followed right off the track with no funding. I always try to help them out. There are many good retirement/rescues out there, but with this one you get something and 100% goes to the horses.

They have always been prompt in replies to questions.

Back to Zenyatta!!!!

[violabella]

but what a year that was.now that was a legit campaign!that was a hoty campaign!i would rather have filet mignon one night and have pizza the next two than have pizza three straight nights.rachel's 2009 was filet mignon.

I'm a foodie and I must say my enjoyment is more than just the food in question. I've had a number of pizzas that were just as good, if not better, than steak. A lot of my enjoyment of food, and horse racing, is also dependent on the preparation, the anticipation, the presentation, the palate itself and, honestly, the company I am in.

I could be eating the best food in the world and I'm afraid I wouldn't enjoy it nearly enough because of your demeaning attitude. But, whatever. :becky:

[violabella]

I saw him at Lane's End at the November open house. He was a handsome dude.

I don't know if it means anything other than Dottie mentioning he's at the same farm and that John used to train him, too, like Life Is Sweet (she's in the mare division of the farm, but with the expecting mares instead of the maiden/barren mares like Zenyatta.)


Mary MMM

I agree. I have a sneaky suspicion that they may want to go to AP Indy but are going to wait until he starts breeding this year to see how his fertility is before announcing her mate. More of a courtesy to Lanes End than anything. While most of us are pretty familiar with the fact that Indy's fertility isn't as good as it used to be (and this is nothing against him, he's simply going to be 22 here in a few days. It happens.) it would still be a bummer to announce him and then have to switch later because he isn't getting mares in foal as well as they might like.

[Hermes]

I agree. I have a sneaky suspicion that they may want to go to AP Indy but are going to wait until he starts breeding this year to see how his fertility is before announcing her mate. More of a courtesy to Lanes End than anything. While most of us are pretty familiar with the fact that Indy's fertility isn't as good as it used to be (and this is nothing against him, he's simply going to be 22 here in a few days. It happens.) it would still be a bummer to announce him and then have to switch later because he isn't getting mares in foal as well as they might like.

I think that is exactly right on AP. One rumor is he is done. But they clearly hope he can breed a select few or the One.

On another note, the trolling "newbie", the "don't speak for me (huh?) and spell steak right dammit if you DO!", and the PR rehab spin attempt by another poster ("yea!, look at me, in between calling posters nasty words, and proudly cyberstalking all of you, I ORDER charity calendars!) all constitute one of the more amusing thread patterns I have ever seen here at TBC. Just wanted to say, well done to all!

Go Z Go.

[moonwalker]

I agree. I have a sneaky suspicion that they may want to go to AP Indy but are going to wait until he starts breeding this year to see how his fertility is before announcing her mate. More of a courtesy to Lanes End than anything. While most of us are pretty familiar with the fact that Indy's fertility isn't as good as it used to be (and this is nothing against him, he's simply going to be 22 here in a few days. It happens.) it would still be a bummer to announce him and then have to switch later because he isn't getting mares in foal as well as they might like.

That's a good guess. I have been thinking they would try Indy early in the season and if she didn't get pregnant, breed her to Giant's Causeway later. It makes more sense the way you suggest, to watch others be bred to him and see if they conceive, rather than putting Zenyatta through it for nothing. Of course they are going to keep quiet about it as a courtesy to LE, since Indy's stud career may be at its end. (A man at the LE open house last month told me he was glad his mare was having a foal that might be among A.P. Indy's last.)

Mary MMM

[PJMIII]

I have to slap you virtual high-five for that. :rockon:That was great. Nice job..:)

[flytothestars]

I do not think Giant's Causeway is a nice fit for Zenyatta. AP Indy's a good one, but getting up there in age and fertility-wise.

Dyanformer is out of question until Zenyatta's 2nd breeding season rolls around and if he is still in stud.

Without looking at the pedigree, I think Indian Charlie, Unusual Heat, Lemon Drop Kid or More than Ready are worthy for Z.

[Spahny]

I think, Unusual Heat

I don't think it will happen but I would love to see this one.

[Hermes]

Z is a A+++ enick with two stallions, AP Indy and Giant's Causeway.I was under an impression that GC was high on the list and was even more so if she had been bred this past season, but she is going to AP if he can get the job done early in the breeding season. I assumed that her half sister Balance's stunning AP Indy colt tipped the scale in his favor, and the only question - and a big one - is his fertility. This is the last chance to go to him. I know the Mosses like GC, too.

[Retrospectiv]

I'd be curious to know if they've test 'bred' (collected) Indy this month or are planning to some time next month, to atleast maybe get a guage on how his swimmers are looking.

Either way, they should have enough samples to test after his first few mares mid February to ascertain if it will be worth giving Zenyatta a go or not.
If he's iffy at all I can't see them wasting too many heat cycles on him and getting her a late start off the box (but I guess that was always par for the course for her ;-)

[Legit Campaign]

Guys... this person ("LegitCampaign") is not interested in being convinced of anything, no matter how eloquently and forcefully you present your arguments. They've got an agenda, and they're more interested in needling you than having an honest discussion--a discussion which is SO beat to death, by the way.

I suggest you put them on "ignore" and we all agree--on the Zenyatta thread at least--to ignore this poster.

you only ignore me cause you know i'm right.

[The Tin Man]

you only ignore me cause you know i'm right.

We've had obnoxious trolls before ... But I'm not sure we've had any more obnoxious than you. Congratulations! :target:

[Allspice]

you only ignore me cause you know i'm right.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/AniAmi14/utada-cbs-early-show-o.gif

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/AniAmi14/britney-laughing-o.gif

[Dusty]

A bit long but worth it!

http://timebandit15.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/into-the-vortex/

[PJMIII]

That article is really worth the read. Thanks for posting it Dusty.

[Native Diver]

A bit long but worth it!

http://timebandit15.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/into-the-vortex/

Thanks for that link. I really enjoyed reading that.

[islandgirl45]

A bit long but worth it!

http://timebandit15.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/into-the-vortex/

It perfectly captures the essence of seeing Zenyatta run "live" rather than on TV. By the way, when you click on her photos they open in high resolution. The next to last one of Z standing in the sun is spectacular, showing her musculature and those dapples that go from neck to tail.

[JT Dancer]

Dusty, thanks for finding and posting that wonderful article. She really captured the Zenyatta experience and her description of the race was spot on.

[Legit Campaign]

A bit long but worth it!

http://timebandit15.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/into-the-vortex/

great article.i love zenyatta but i really feel bad for mike smith.he's a cool dude.

[BornToWin]

A bit long but worth it!

http://timebandit15.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/into-the-vortex/

These passages are especially intriguing--

"... I saw in her body language the absolute assurance that she would win, something I couldn’t create from desire mixed in with ego. It came from her..." (We've heard that from professional horse people--that presence.)

And "... She was caught in a cobweb of energy that she couldn’t shake loose that was wrapping itself around her legs...It was excruciating. She was in another race on another dimension, a race to free herself..."

"...they came toward the far turn and the crowd’s voice became one unified roar of relief. The distance closed between her flying black silhouette and the horses in front of her... free of the pack and bearing down on Blame. 72,000 souls were locked into the same dream chanting Go! Go! Go! in tune with her thundering stride..."

"...And, by the way, according to Dottie, Zenyatta thinks she won..."

:) Thanks for sharing the Elizabeth Whitney site.

I just finished reading Squires, "Headless Horsemen" too, and it makes Zenyatta's story even more outstanding since she raced and won 19 consecutive times without the drugs or institutional connections that benefit so many athletes of any species. And she almost had her 20th win going second by a hair after covering more ground faster than any horse in the race.

Celebrating athleticism and integrity...Zenyatta was a gift to sports. It can be done. She did it.

[Man o' Taz]

http://www.nesn.com/2010/12/lindsey-vonn-tops-zenyatta-for-2010-ap-female-athlete-of-the-year-as-horse-is-again-runner-up.html

Lindsey Vonn Tops Zenyatta for 2010 AP Female Athlete of the Year As Horse Is Again Runner-Up (http://www.nesn.com/2010/12/lindsey-vonn-tops-zenyatta-for-2010-ap-female-athlete-of-the-year-as-horse-is-again-runner-up.html) by Nick Coman (http://www.nesn.com/nick-coman/) on Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 4:25PM





Lindsey Vonn has had a good couple of weeks. She has not only won two consecutive World Cup Skiing events, but she can now add AP Female Athlete of the Year to her resume -- something no skier has ever been able to say before.
"It couldn't have gone any better for me. Even if I just won the Olympic gold medal, that would have made it the best year of my career and the best day of my life, period. Winning the World Cup races and the overall title just topped it off," the German-American skier said.
Vonn received 77 of 175 votes, more than any other candidate (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/more/12/18/lindsey.vonn.ap.female.athlete.of.year.ap/index.html), according to SportsIllustrated.com, but who did she beat?
Not Connecticut women's hoops star Maya Moore -- she finished third. Vonn's runner up was Zenyatta, the six-year-old horse who recently lost her final career race. In fact, while Zenyatta was 19-1 overall, she went just 5-1 in 2010 and still managed to compile 32 votes in her favor.
This was the horse's second straight runner-up performance. She finished behind Serena Williams for the award in 2009.
Photo of the Day

Should horeses be eligible for human awards? Share your thoughts in the comments section below.
http://mt.nesn.com/.a/6a0115709f071f970b0148c6e18b9c970c-500wi (http://www.nesn.com/2010/12/lindsey-vonn-tops-zenyatta-for-2010-ap-female-athlete-of-the-year-as-horse-is-again-runner-up.html)

[BornToWin]

http://www.nesn.com/2010/12/lindsey-vonn-tops-zenyatta-for-2010-ap-female-athlete-of-the-year-as-horse-is-again-runner-up.html

Lindsey Vonn Tops Zenyatta for 2010 AP Female Athlete of the Year As Horse Is Again Runner-Up (http://www.nesn.com/2010/12/lindsey-vonn-tops-zenyatta-for-2010-ap-female-athlete-of-the-year-as-horse-is-again-runner-up.html) by Nick Coman (http://www.nesn.com/nick-coman/) on Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 4:25PM

http://mt.nesn.com/.a/6a0115709f071f970b0148c6e18b9c970c-500wi (http://www.nesn.com/2010/12/lindsey-vonn-tops-zenyatta-for-2010-ap-female-athlete-of-the-year-as-horse-is-again-runner-up.html)


Zenyatta is an elite athlete. Athletes have coaches, trainers, and people who pay the bills. Zenyatta earned her recognition in every venue, and what a boon to horse racing!

For those who worry about losing commercial value of any stallion she raced against, surely Darley is thrilled to own her sire, Street Cry. She brings him and her family line glory and demonstrated ability. Bred to an equally sound, talented, competitive sire, Zenyatta could produce a son equal to or more than her. Think of that, more...what would that be? Look like? Chances are good it could work because what we saw was The Horse, not chemicals. Bred to an equally talented, honest stallion she could be the next significant influence on the breed in the US and outside of it. The prospect is exciting and not as far fetched as you might think, because she is a genuine, Elite Athlete.

[Rick1323]

Lindsey is also a large and beautiful female. It seems to be the current rage. Drop the diets ladies, it is hot to be a little large these days.

[Man o' Taz]

Lindsey is also a large and beautiful female. It seems to be the current rage. Drop the diets ladies, it is hot to be a little large these days.

So Lindsey's not toned?

I think she is just like the mare...

Just like Serena was last year... :becky:


Zenyatta is an elite athlete. Athletes have coaches, trainers, and people who pay the bills. Zenyatta earned her recognition in every venue, and what a boon to horse racing!

For those who worry about losing commercial value of any stallion she raced against, surely Darley is thrilled to own her sire, Street Cry. She brings him and her family line glory and demonstrated ability. Bred to an equally sound, talented, competitive sire, Zenyatta could produce a son equal to or more than her. Think of that, more...what would that be? Look like? Chances are good it could work because what we saw was The Horse, not chemicals. Bred to an equally talented, honest stallion she could be the next significant influence on the breed in the US and outside of it. The prospect is exciting and not as far fetched as you might think, because she is a genuine, Elite Athlete.

Well, I always look with some suspicion on efforts to breed "super" horses...

It did not work with Secretariat and Genuine Risk...and I do not know that it will work with Curlin and Rachel and Zenyatta and AP Indy...

One can still hope though... :)

[Reposmoral]

Well, I always look with some suspicion on efforts to breed "super" horses...

It did not work with Secretariat and Genuine Risk...and I do not know that it will work with Curlin and Rachel and Zenyatta and AP Indy...

One can still hope though... :)



I think what's most in Zenyatta's favor in terms of being a relatively productive broodmare (she will almost certainly not reproduce herself, of course) is that her family is very successful. She's well bred and most of her siblings are winners, if not G1 winners, too. So, she comes from a very good dam.

What I'd be really curious to see is a full sibling to Zenyatta. Too bad it's unlikely to happen. I know full siblings are almost never the same in talent, but...

[Forego]

PS: The content of LC's posts reminds me of one speckled puppy/Draynay although the e.e cummings-style presentation says otherwise. Perhaps the latter trait is a deliberate affectation.

Agreed. LC's posts are a classic example of someone trying waaaaaaaay too hard to change their posting/writing style.

Thanks for that link, Dusty.

[EquineAnne]

Huh? She ran at two, three and four. But this is Zenyatta's thread.

Gin, I am not putting RA down. I am stating that Rachel's 3 yr old campaign was brief...great, but brief. If she ran at 2, I wasn't aware of her or her brilliance at 2. As for her 4 yr old season, brilliant it was not. So, IMO, her brief shining moment was the few brilliant months she ran as a 3 yr old. I'd much prefer the 3 years I was able to enjoy Zenny and what she brought to the sport than a few grueling months that ruined a horse.

Also, I am aware it's a Zenyatta thread. I don't need your snippy remarks to remind me of the obvious. Duh...

[Man o' Taz]

I think what's most in Zenyatta's favor in terms of being a relatively productive broodmare (she will almost certainly not reproduce herself, of course) is that her family is very successful. She's well bred and most of her siblings are winners, if not G1 winners, too. So, she comes from a very good dam.

What I'd be really curious to see is a full sibling to Zenyatta. Too bad it's unlikely to happen. I know full siblings are almost never the same in talent, but...

Yep....we have evidence of that in Lentenor and Nicanor...

[Man o' Taz]

Gin, I am not putting RA down. I am stating that Rachel's 3 yr old campaign was brief...great, but brief. If she ran at 2, I wasn't aware of her or her brilliance at 2. As for her 4 yr old season, brilliant it was not. So, IMO, her brief shining moment was the few brilliant months she ran as a 3 yr old. I'd much prefer the 3 years I was able to enjoy Zenny and what she brought to the sport than a few grueling months that ruined a horse.

Also, I am aware it's a Zenyatta thread. I don't need your snippy remarks to remind me of the obvious. Duh...

Brief?

She ran from February 15th to September 5th...8 months...and she was brilliant throughout...with one of last year's moments of the year occuring on May 5th...with the Kentucky Oaks...then on May 19th with the Preakness...then with her effort in the Mother Goose in June...and the Haskell in August and the Woodward in September...

A few months?

Of course, this is one year...compared to three...but we did enjoy Rachel's brilliance as a 4 year old too...I thought her Personal Ensign was remarkable...

[EquineAnne]

Why are you continuing with this?

It's filet, and you're a crazy lady. I had a blast watching Rachel, win or lose. You can have your little dessert; I'll take the beef!

I'm responding because I'm insulted that someone else thinks they can talk for me. End.

You are the crazy lady for continuing your little foot stamping rant. I know you are an RA fan Gin, it's obvious. You didn't even put Zen on your list of horses you've enjoyed in the last 10 years. Speaks volumes, really. I'm glad you enjoyed the very short time RA was around. I did too. Too bad it wasn't longer, maybe she would have been considered the greatest mare of all time. Oh, and Zenyatta was the appetizer, main course, AND dessert.

[EquineAnne]

Brief?

She ran from February 15th to September 5th...8 months...and she was brilliant throughout...

Comparably speaking, it was brief. IMO of course.

[MonmouthGuy]

Gin, I am not putting RA down. I am stating that Rachel's 3 yr old campaign was brief...great, but brief.

Anne, even understanding that you are not that well informed as someone like GinTalking, why would you describe RA's 3YO campaign as brief? It was anything but brief.

[MonmouthGuy]

Comparably speaking, it was brief. IMO of course.

Comparably speaking to what? She ran in 8 races at 7 different tracks, including 5 G1s and 2 G2s.

If RA's 2009 campaign was brief, how would you describe Zenaytta's 5 race 2009 campaign?

[The Tin Man]

Anne, even understanding that you are not that well informed as someone like GinTalking, why would you describe RA's 3YO campaign as brief? It was anything but brief.

Funny how people who agree with you are "well informed" and those who don't agree with you are ... and I'm paraphrasing here ... "uninformed".

Your private messages to those who disagree with you are FAR more crude.

I sense a pattern here ... Agree with you and receive praise ... disagree with you and be insulted.

I'm sure happy I'm on the insult part of that equation with you. :)

[MonmouthGuy]

Funny how people who agree with you are "well informed" and those who don't agree with you are ... and I'm paraphrasing here ... "uninformed".



Tin Man. This is not a matter of opinion. EA does was not aware that RA ran as a 2YO. That certainly makes her less informed than GT on the topic. Don't see how you can disagree with that one.

EA has also stated that RAs 2009 campaign was "brief....comparably speaking."

I have asked her "comparably speaking to what."

Zenyatta ran a five race campaign (i think) in 2009. I am honestly wondering if she would describe that campaign as brief.

[Hermes]

Anne, even understanding that you are not that well informed as someone like GinTalking, why would you describe RA's 3YO campaign as brief? It was anything but brief.

MG - Gin Talking is coming off as a crank the past few weeks far often more than she is as informed. She might have reason, dunno. What is your motivation for being such a prick lately?

[The Tin Man]

Tin Man. This is not a matter of opinion. EA does was not aware that RA ran as a 2YO. That certainly makes her less informed than GT on the topic. Don't see how you can disagree with that one.

EA has also stated that RAs 2009 campaign was "brief....comparably speaking."

I have asked her "comparably speaking to what."

Zenyatta ran a five race campaign (i think) in 2009. I am honestly wondering if she would describe that campaign as brief.

I'm not taking sides on this one MG ... I'm just talking about your overall philosophy. ;-)

And BTW ... Thanks for your PM the other day. I was beginning to feel left out.

I found it quite entertaining and had a nice laugh over it. :)

[The Tin Man]

MG - What is your motivation for being such a prick lately?

Every once in a while I'm happy that you're back Sunshine.

THIS is one of those times.

Sharp post!! :becky:

[EquineAnne]

Comparably speaking to what? She ran in 8 races at 7 different tracks, including 5 G1s and 2 G2s.

If RA's 2009 campaign was brief, how would you describe Zenaytta's 5 race 2009 campaign?

She ran for 8 months. I never said she wasn't brilliant. I didn't question the quality of the races. I said her brilliant career was brief which I still think it was.

[The Tin Man]

She ran for 8 months. I never said she wasn't brilliant. I didn't question the quality of the races. I said her brilliant career was brief which I still think it was.

That's what I took you to mean too Anne. I thought it was pretty apparent you were referencing her career as being short. Being that you referenced Zenyatta's entire career as a balance. :)

Maybe in MG's haste to be confrontational ... He missed the context in which you'd posted. ;-)

[MonmouthGuy]

MG - Gin Talking is coming off as a crank the past few weeks far often more than she is as informed. She might have reason, dunno. What is your motivation for being such a prick lately?


Hermes. If you agree with crazies like FelineAnne that RAs 3YO campaign was brief, perhaps your powers of logical thinking have been taken over by Zombies prior to rejoining the forum.

[MonmouthGuy]

She ran for 8 months. I never said she wasn't brilliant. I didn't question the quality of the races. I said her brilliant career was brief which I still think it was.

She ran for the same number of years (3) in virtually the same number of races as Zenyatta. (20-19)

If I understand correctly, you think a 5 race campaign from March to late October is an extended campaign, but an 8 race campaign from February to September is brief.

It defies logic.

[Hermes]

A bit long but worth it!

http://timebandit15.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/into-the-vortex/

Spectacular.

[Indychase]

She ran for 8 months. I never said she wasn't brilliant. I didn't question the quality of the races. I said her brilliant career was brief which I still think it was.

I'm as big a fan of Zenyatta as anyone (and would rank Zenyatta higher than RA), and even I think it's silly to characterize RA's campaign as brief.

She was considered one of the top 2 y.o. fillies of her year. She had a full 3 y.o. campaign. While this year's campaign was disappointing results-wise, she ran in as many races this year as Blame

You don't help your cause by being factually incorrect.

[The Tin Man]

If I understand correctly, you think a 5 race campaign from March to late October is an extended campaign, but an 8 race campaign from February to September is brief.

It defies logic.

She's talking CAREER MG ... Yet you go back to the single YEAR again?

I'll give you this much MG ... 19 Starts, 13 Wins, 5 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $3,506,730 ... Is a pretty nifty career.

You may be interested in knowing(If you don't already) that there is a horse running at Aqueduct these days called Raphael Alexandro with the same daddy as Rachel(Medaglia D'Oro) ... If you're not already following him, you might want to. It'll help with getting your Rachel fix. He's doing ok. Nothing great, but competitive. So he may be worth a watch for you. :)

http://www.pedigreequery.com/raphael+alexandro

[Hermes]

Hermes. If you agree with crazies like FelineAnne that RAs 3YO campaign was brief, perhaps your powers of logical thinking have been taken over by Zombies prior to rejoining the forum.

No MGuy. I just see your nasty comments lately and think you are a Hermes wanna-be. The truth is I see your personally insulting posts to others (a difference than who you used to be here) and think a. wow, I should be nicer, and b. that does sound like someone with little to say of substance.

I have all my logical powers intact, and I have a deeper appreciation for Zenyatta than ever, too. They are not mutually exclusive except to the inanely stubborn. Nor do I think any less of Rachel, maybe even more.

So the eff what if Anne was a little off base on Rachel's campaign. It is all old news, doesn't need another rehash, and both mares are retired now. Move. On.

[Man o' Taz]

Comparably speaking, it was brief. IMO of course.

I guess you are not talking about her 2009 campaign as much as you are her perceived "brilliance" IYHO...

Of course, her campaign of 8 races was still longer than many recent HOTY campaigns...

When is the last time a HOTY ran in 8 or more races the year they were voted HOTY?

Its been some time I believe...

For a male it wouold be Tiznow in 2000...so about a decade back...and he was a three year old male then...she was a three year old filly...

For a female it would be Azeri in 2002...8 races...7 firsts...1 second...and she was a four year old...

Curlin came close with 7 in 2008...

And as for her brilliance this year....until Zenyatta's 111 in the Classic Rachel had set the highest BSF for a female in 2010 with a 109 in the Fleur de Lis...

[The Tin Man]

I'm as big a fan of Zenyatta as anyone (and would rank Zenyatta higher than RA), and even I think it's silly to characterize RA's campaign as brief.

She was considered one of the top 2 y.o. fillies of her year. She had a full 3 y.o. campaign. While this year's campaign was disappointing results-wise, she ran in as many races this year as Blame

You don't help your cause by being factually incorrect.

I think Anne is talking about "length of brilliance" ... Not length of campaign.

Anne ... Correct me if I'm wrong. :)

I don't personally have any strong opinion on this aspect of the thread ... Just deciphering what I think Anne is saying is all.

[EquineAnne]

That's what I took you to mean too Anne. I thought it was pretty apparent you were referencing her career as being short. Being that you referenced Zenyatta's entire career as a balance. :)

Maybe in MG's haste to be confrontational ... He missed the context in which you'd posted. ;-)

These people just don't get it or they're so touchy about RA that they don't want to see it. This entire thing started when folks said people should feel cheated the way Zen was campaigned. And I replied saying no, I didn't feel cheated by Zen's career. What I did feel cheated by was RA's career shortened due to her 3 yr old campaign. And I still believe had she not been pushed to the wall at the end of her 3 yr old season, she would have been even better at 4 and we could have enjoyed her instead of feeling sick when she ran and lost. People are picky and argumentative for nothing or dense? :confused:

That's it, nothing more, believe it or not. And yes, Tinny, that's exactly what I meant.

[Hermes]

Anne, it is going to be hard to continue to defend you with posts like that.

Let me try some logic for you and others that fail to grasp it at times. If Rachel doesn't go for the brass ring and run in and win the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward, she is just another impressive 3 yr old filly that dominated a 3 yr old crop THAT year. We care so much about her legacy and who she is, because ...she HAS a legacy. Based on that campaign. And her career and that season were not "short." You have no way of knowing how she would return at age four regardless and we are damn lucky that she did, even if the campaign did not meet expectation, you know the expectations that were based on her HISTORIC 3 yr old filly campaign. I wouldn't trade one of those races for what MIGHT have happened at age four with her...same as I no longer worry about what other races Z could have raced in while COMPILING her undefeated 19-0 record - which is why we began and continued to care about HER.

[PJMIII]

MG - Gin Talking is coming off as a crank the past few weeks far often more than she is as informed. She might have reason, dunno. What is your motivation for being such a prick lately?
I haven't seen any change in MG. IMHO he acts the same as he usually does. If someone disagrees with him he acts the way he does on this subject.

[Hermes]

I haven't seen any change in MG. IMHO he acts the same as he usually does. If someone disagrees with him he acts the way he does on this subject.

OK, I thought he was nicer in the past. But it may just be that he is easier on Hermes than he is on others for the most part.

[Man o' Taz]

Anne, it is going to be hard to continue to defend you with posts like that.

Let me try some logic for you and others that fail to grasp it at times. If Rachel doesn't go for the brass ring and run in and win the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward, she is just another impressive 3 yr old filly that dominated a 3 yr old crop THAT year. We care so much about her legacy and who she is, because ...she HAS a legacy. Based on that campaign. And her career and that season were not "short." You have no way of knowing how she would return at age four regardless and we are damn lucky that she did, even if the campaign did not meet expectation, you know the expectations that were based on her HISTORIC 3 yr old filly campaign. I wouldn't trade one of those races for what MIGHT have happened at age four with her...same as I no longer worry about what other races Z could have raced in while COMPILING her undefeated 19-0 record - which is why we began and continued to care about HER.

Yep. :)

[EquineAnne]

Anne, it is going to be hard to continue to defend you with posts like that.

Let me try some logic for you and others that fail to grasp it at times. If Rachel doesn't go for the brass ring and run in and win the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward, she is just another impressive 3 yr old filly that dominated a 3 yr old crop THAT year. We care so much about her legacy and who she is, because ...she has a legacy. You have no way of knowing how she would return at age four regardless and we are damn lucky that she did, even if the campaign did not meet expectation, you know the expectations that were based on her HISTORIC 3 yr old filly campaign. I wouldn't trade one of those races for what MIGHT have happened at age four with her...same as I no longer worry about what other races Z could have raced in while COMPILING her undefeated 19-0 record - which is why we began and continued to care about HER.

Thanks Hermes.

In reference to the above highlighted sentence, that just about sums it up for me. I was upset that her connections pushed her to the wall and pretty much emptied the tank so that when she came back at 4, she wasn't the same. And you are correct. There is no way to tell what might have happened at 4 regardless of the campaign.

And I guess I'm wrong but I am completely happy with how Zenyatta was handled.

[The Tin Man]

I haven't seen any change in MG. IMHO he acts the same as he usually does. If someone disagrees with him he acts the way he does on this subject.

Exactly ... He has always been ultra-defensive, abrasive and rude. Not to mention his PM's showing that he is somehow obsessed with the weight of women.

He's being exactly as I've always seen him ... Maybe a year or more ago he was different. But he's the same as I've always known him.

He's my buddy ... Right MG? :)

[Hermes]

Thanks Hermes.

In reference to the above highlighted sentence, that just about sums it up for me. I was upset that her connections pushed her to the wall and pretty much emptied the tank so that when she came back at 4, she wasn't the same. And you are correct. There is no way to tell what might have happened at 4 regardless of the campaign.

And I guess I'm wrong but I am completely happy with how Zenyatta was handled.

Which race did you want Rachel to skip? The one that made her 2009 Horse of the Year? Oh, wait.

[MonmouthGuy]

She's talking CAREER MG ... Yet you go back to the single YEAR again?





I am stating that Rachel's 3 yr old campaign was brief...great, but brief.


TTM. She was talking about her 3YO campaign. Cannot see how you read "career" into the above or why it needs context.

[MonmouthGuy]

I'm as big a fan of Zenyatta as anyone (and would rank Zenyatta higher than RA), and even I think it's silly to characterize RA's campaign as brief.

She was considered one of the top 2 y.o. fillies of her year. She had a full 3 y.o. campaign. While this year's campaign was disappointing results-wise, she ran in as many races this year as Blame

You don't help your cause by being factually incorrect.

That is all I was saying.

[Hermes]

TTM. She was talking about her 3YO campaign. Cannot see how you read "career" into the above or why it needs context.

The horse you are beating died a half hour ago.

[MonmouthGuy]

The horse you are beating died a half hour ago.

You almost caused me to check the In Memoriam thread.

[The Tin Man]

Thanks Hermes.

In reference to the above highlighted sentence, that just about sums it up for me. I was upset that her connections pushed her to the wall and pretty much emptied the tank so that when she came back at 4, she wasn't the same. And you are correct. There is no way to tell what might have happened at 4 regardless of the campaign.

And I guess I'm wrong but I am completely happy with how Zenyatta was handled.

Basically you're just saying that you'd have taken a little less in her 3 year old year in order to make sure her excellence was spread more evenly ... Including an outstanding 4 year old season. That top loading it into the 3 year old season very likely compromised her performances in her 4 year old season.

Ergo ... Maybe sacrificing a bit of her legacy for more enjoyment at the highest of levels.

Zenny was paced better and therefore able to sustain excellence longer ... Whereas Rachel was over-worked which compromised the length of her excellence.

I was never taken in by Rachel, but I had a lot of respect for her. Most of the time believing she was the 2nd best female running ... Which isn't a bad thing at all considering who I felt was the best. That being said, I thought her 4 year old performance on the track was strong. The problem was that she stayed at her 3 year old level as other females advanced. But she was extremely competitive in all of her races. It's not as if she was getting pasted. She showed tons of grit and heart and fought through to the wire strongly in each case. I respected her greatly, but was not a fan.

To use a football analogy, which is SO common on this site. I was an Oiler fan and in the late 70s to early 80s ... The Steelers had our number. I hated the Steelers with a passion, but I respected the hell out of them. Hence I was not a fan of them, but I still respected them greatly. I was not a Rachel fan, but respected her greatly.

[Ty88]

Perhaps the poster meant not that Rachel's campaign was brief the way, say, Eskendereya's was, but that the amount of time she spent at her peak (one season, give or take the definition of "peak" at the beginning of the year) is brief in comparison to Zenyatta remaining apparently always at top level for three+ seasons.

[The Tin Man]

She ran for 8 months. I never said she wasn't brilliant. I didn't question the quality of the races. I said her brilliant career was brief which I still think it was.

Here Anne says she was talking about her CAREER being brief MG ... ;-)

[The Tin Man]

These people just don't get it or they're so touchy about RA that they don't want to see it. This entire thing started when folks said people should feel cheated the way Zen was campaigned. And I replied saying no, I didn't feel cheated by Zen's career. What I did feel cheated by was RA's career shortened due to her 3 yr old campaign. And I still believe had she not been pushed to the wall at the end of her 3 yr old season, she would have been even better at 4 and we could have enjoyed her instead of feeling sick when she ran and lost. People are picky and argumentative for nothing or dense? :confused:

That's it, nothing more, believe it or not. And yes, Tinny, that's exactly what I meant.

And here she is saying that how I interpreted her post was correct also.

[The Tin Man]

Perhaps the poster meant not that Rachel's campaign was brief the way, say, Eskendereya's was, but that the amount of time she spent at her peak (one season, give or take the definition of "peak" at the beginning of the year) is brief in comparison to Zenyatta remaining apparently always at top level for three+ seasons.

Exactly.

[Hermes]

Perhaps the poster meant not that Rachel's campaign was brief the way, say, Eskendereya's was, but that the amount of time she spent at her peak (one season, give or take the definition of "peak" at the beginning of the year) is brief in comparison to Zenyatta remaining apparently always at top level for three+ seasons.

Perhaps the poster was off base to even suggest such a thing about Rachel.

And maybe Z's folk chose the conservative route, even after she proved she could run down any horse, staying within her weak division in CA for the most part, minimal effort required to gun down over matched horses in the last quarter mile, while the younger race on the pace all the way Rachel danced with some heavier heads three times last year with some 20 length thrashings of her own crop sandwiched in between, and was able to maintain form despite such heavy pressure (never asked of Z) over a stretch of time and several races...and Fifth Third's career as an analogy does not compute at all. He was done (as in retired) in April of his 3 yr old year.

[Diver52]

This is a little OT but as Rachel's 2010 has come into it, has anybody considered that Rachel's "New Orleans Ladies" race was basically her 2010 form? It didn't necessarily show that she "wasn't ready," for the Apple Blossom, but just that she "wasn't as good."

That said, I will say that even the 80% Rachel would have been a real danger to Zenyatta if the race otherwise had come up as weak as it did, with her speed.

[Forego]

If someone disagrees with him he acts the way he does on *edit out this and paste in ANY* subject.

Fixed that for ya...

[Ty88]

and Fifth Third's career as an analogy does not compute at all. He was done (as in retired) in April of his 3 yr old year.

I know. I said I believed the poster in question meant Rachel's career was NOT like his in briefness but meant briefness in a different way. The poster also admitted she was not aware of Rachel's two-year-old year.
I don't mean to speak for you, EquineAnne. Please correct me if I am wrong.


Perhaps the poster was off base to even suggest such a thing about Rachel.

Why?


And maybe Z's folk chose the conservative route, even after she proved she could run down any horse, staying within her weak division in CA for the most part, minimal effort required to gun down over matched horses in the last quarter mile, while the younger race on the pace all the way Rachel danced with some heavier heads three times last year with some 20 length thrashings of her own crop sandwiched in between, and was able to maintain form despite such heavy pressure (never asked of Z) over a stretch of time and several races...

Ok. But the reasons behind each horse remaining at peak/below peak don't really matter. The statement, as I took it, was Rachel's brilliance seemed short compared to Zenyatta's. The reasons or the exact level of the two brilliances don't matter here.

Actually nothing really matters here, it's one poster's opinion on two almost entirely subjective racehorses within an entirely subjective sport. But hey, the banter is so much fun...
:hat:

[moonwalker]

Steve Haskin's most recent column was actually written by a retired Quebec schoolteacher, and although it's long, it's heartfelt and makes excellent points. Bravo Ms. Abigail Anderson, and thank you.

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2010/12/20/hangin-with-haskin-a-response-to-i-lied.aspx

Excerpt:


Like you, Steve, I can see no reason for marginalizing Zenyatta’s fans on the grounds that they are tilting at windmills. After all, if not for those of us that still regard the thoroughbred with awe, the sport would lose its majesty and its appeal. Of course, it would be nice if the “old boys” promoted inclusion, rather than exclusion, as they pen their polemics. But, in the end, it really doesn’t matter. For those of us who have had a chance to fall in love again with a thoroughbred named Zenyatta, as for her wonderful team, there are all those memories – of the way we smiled when she danced or laughed as she posed for a kiss, of the hitch in our throats when Ann Moss or Dottie Shirreffs or Mario or Steve’s eyes brimmed with tears, of the thrill of watching her run, or of John Shirreffs’ quiet reminder that “hundreds of years go into breeding a thoroughbred” -- and there are still more memories to come, to be sure! Zenyatta touched our lives as we accompanied her on her way from fuzzy baby to mature adult, learning to become a community in the process. And we will no more forget her than we could forget Man O’ War or War Admiral or Count Fleet or Citation or Northern Dancer or Secretariat or Ruffian or Genuine Risk or Personal Ensign or Barbaro …… or any thoroughbred that we have loved.My response:


Thank you, Ms. Anderson. I love all the stories in bloodlines, and am sorry they are passed over.

I'm hoping someone will realize there are droves of people who are interested in
horse racing beyond cold reptilian numbers. Horses are gloriously flesh and blood,
and those of us who love them for themselves shouldn't be marginalized as nutcases
and crazy cat ladies for appreciating them.
Why does horse racing seek to insult and drive people away?

I grew up in the Louisville area and have followed horse racing and loved horses as
long as I can remember, and I'm 46. The first Derby I remember was Majestic Prince
in 1969.

Team Zenyatta was an inspiration, not only to horse racing but organizations in
general. If more organizations ran as harmoniously as that one, without bloated
egos and gameplaying, what could they achieve? They all worked together for the
best interests of their horse, and their horse thrived. In other hands, the story may
not have been the same.

I was lucky to have been able to visit Zenyatta's great grandfather Roberto at Darby
Dan farm, when I was 10 years old. She reminds me of him, big and dark, with that
blaze. At that time I had never seen a Kentucky Derby winner in the flesh, but here
was an Epsom "Darby" winner. I know of my family, I was the only one to
appreciate him. I'm similarly privileged to have seen and met his fine great
granddaughter, and have even had her kiss me on the ear. Indeed, I found the
present in the past perfect.Mary MMM

[The Tin Man]

This is a little OT but as Rachel's 2010 has come into it, has anybody considered that Rachel's "New Orleans Ladies" race was basically her 2010 form? It didn't necessarily show that she "wasn't ready," for the Apple Blossom, but just that she "wasn't as good."

That said, I will say that even the 80% Rachel would have been a real danger to Zenyatta if the race otherwise had come up as weak as it did, with her speed.

Yes ... I did Diver. It's always been my take that Rachel stayed at the same level while others progressed with age. They caught up with her. Her Beyers, if I remember correctly, were essentially the same on AVERAGE from 2009 to 2010. On average being the key.

I never thought Rachel at her peak would have beaten Zenny ... Unless she was allowed to run free on the lead with Zenny trailing by more than 10 lengths. I never figured they'd run Zenny more than 5 or 8 back against Rachel, so I never thought Rachel would best her. And yes ... This is MY opinion. Those who think the pace of the race or following distance would have played out differently could easily arrive at a differing opinion than mine. I just don't think they'd allow Rachel free on the lead with Zenny trailing by double digit lengths. But I DO understand that others may have seen the hypothetical race plan being carried out differently. :)

[JD]

Some GREAT photos by Barbara Livingston of Zenyatta frolicking today in her wintery paddock!
http://drf.com/news/photos-zenyatta-play-her-lanes-end-paddock

These made my day!

[Horsebagger]

It's always been my take that Rachel stayed at the same level while others progressed with age.

Rachel came out of her summer 2009 campaign with an injury that likely significantly effected her ability to continue to progress and improve to new levels in 2010.

The injury is a fact, but it's ultimate effect on her 4-yo performance level is just my opinion. You could very well be right and she just didn't mature and improve beyond her 3-yo level and wouldn't have, injury or no injury.

[moonwalker]

Some GREAT photos by Barbara Livingston of Zenyatta frolicking today in her wintery paddock!
http://drf.com/news/photos-zenyatta-play-her-lanes-end-paddock

These made my day!

Oh hooray, I've been waiting for this kind of picture! She looks so happy running around in the snow.

Mary MMM

[Diver52]

Some GREAT photos by Barbara Livingston of Zenyatta frolicking today in her wintery paddock!
http://drf.com/news/photos-zenyatta-play-her-lanes-end-paddock

These made my day!

Mine too, those should answer those who think she's going to be miserable! But I bet her handlers had their hearts in their throats the first time she took off!

[moonwalker]

Look how high she gets in that first picture. Wow, she would have made a show jumper if that racing thing hadn't worked out. LOL

Mary MMM

[Dusty]

I think it is so great that most of TEAM Zenyatta was there - a very special group of people who so love this mare. AND they took Mario and Carmen with them!

[moonwalker]

This may have already been posted, but Team Zenyatta visited Z's dam Vertigineux earlier this month. They also saw Giacomo while they were in KY.

http://www.backside55.com/notes/2010/12/17/pictures-and-tidbits.html

Mary MMM

[Dusty]

From Haskins blog - it is long but very worth reading - a response to I Lied

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2010/12/20/hangin-with-haskin-a-response-to-i-lied.aspx

[The Tin Man]

This may have already been posted, but Team Zenyatta visited Z's dam Vertigineux earlier this month. They also saw Giacomo while they were in KY.

http://www.backside55.com/notes/2010/12/17/pictures-and-tidbits.html

Mary MMM

Great pics Mary! Thanks! :)

Giacomo just keeps getting lighter and lighter ... Pretty soon you won't be able to see him when he's in the snow. ;-)

Here's a picture of a picture I took of him at Del Mar back in 2007 ... My how he's changed!

[Allspice]

Some GREAT photos by Barbara Livingston of Zenyatta frolicking today in her wintery paddock!
http://drf.com/news/photos-zenyatta-play-her-lanes-end-paddock

These made my day!

:love: Such beautiful photos!

[JD]

This may have already been posted, but Team Zenyatta visited Z's dam Vertigineux earlier this month. They also saw Giacomo while they were in KY.

http://www.backside55.com/notes/2010/12/17/pictures-and-tidbits.html

Mary MMM

Thanks for posting this, didn't know they had a site. Lovely photos too!

[Rick1323]

My, my...she does love to run.....

[moonwalker]

That filly by Vertigineux's side is Zenyatta's half sister by Henrythenavigator, and she's in foal to him again. Zenyatta's half sister by Bernardini, named Eblouissante, will turn 2 on January 1 and come to John Shirreffs' barn for training in 2011.

Mary MMM

[Hermes]

Mine too, those should answer those who think she's going to be miserable! But I bet her handlers had their hearts in their throats the first time she took off!

OMG, my heart was in my throat just looking at the photos, in celebration for Z and her freedom, and feeling for anyone watching her get up a head of steam.

So cool of the Mosses to load everyone up on the private jet and fly in to see her moment!

That is the coolest note, too, that she headed for Mario. True Love.

[EquineAnne]

Perhaps the poster meant not that Rachel's campaign was brief the way, say, Eskendereya's was, but that the amount of time she spent at her peak (one season, give or take the definition of "peak" at the beginning of the year) is brief in comparison to Zenyatta remaining apparently always at top level for three+ seasons.

OMG yes. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

[EquineAnne]

Oh hooray, I've been waiting for this kind of picture! She looks so happy running around in the snow.

Mary MMM

Mary, it brought tears to my eyes.

[EquineAnne]

Perhaps the poster was off base to even suggest such a thing about Rachel.



Yes, Hermes you are right again. I know my opinion and feelings about these animals are different than most of the experts/professionals here on this forum. When I said short/brief career, I meant the time that she was at her peak blowing everyone away. To me, that that time frame was short. What we saw this year was difficult to watch, to me anyway. Was she a champ regardless? Of course, it's just that I wish her talents could have in some way been just a bit conserved so we could have seen that magic another year.

[EquineAnne]

I know. I said I believed the poster in question meant Rachel's career was NOT like his in briefness but meant briefness in a different way. The poster also admitted she was not aware of Rachel's two-year-old year.
I don't mean to speak for you, EquineAnne. Please correct me if I am wrong.



Why?



Ok. But the reasons behind each horse remaining at peak/below peak don't really matter. The statement, as I took it, was Rachel's brilliance seemed short compared to Zenyatta's. The reasons or the exact level of the two brilliances don't matter here.

Actually nothing really matters here, it's one poster's opinion on two almost entirely subjective racehorses within an entirely subjective sport. But hey, the banter is so much fun...
:hat:

That is exactly what I meant.

[EquineAnne]

Some GREAT photos by Barbara Livingston of Zenyatta frolicking today in her wintery paddock!
http://drf.com/news/photos-zenyatta-play-her-lanes-end-paddock

These made my day!

Me too! Oh gosh, I hope her connections saw this live or at least, had it taped. If it brought tears to my eyes I'm sure Ann Moss is beyond happy! Good for her. She certainly deserves it.

Edited to say they all flew in to see it! How lucky can people be? God bless.

[Hermes]

Me too! Oh gosh, I hope her connections saw this live or at least, had it taped. If it brought tears to my eyes I'm sure Ann Moss is beyond happy! Good for her. She certainly deserves it.

They were all there today in person with Zenyatta. Barbara Livingston notes that Z ran over to Mario. I hope they do post a video, too.

[moonwalker]

Me too! Oh gosh, I hope her connections saw this live or at least, had it taped. If it brought tears to my eyes I'm sure Ann Moss is beyond happy! Good for her. She certainly deserves it.

Edited to say they all flew in to see it! How lucky can people be? God bless.

The Mosses, Shirreffs, and Mario and Carmen flew in from California to see her run in the paddock for the first time. They were right there, and Z even ran to Mario when she saw him! I read somewhere that video is coming soon; probably it's still being edited. I can't wait.

Ha ha, edited this because I didn't see your edit. Are we all just giddy, or what? LOL

Mary MMM

[islandgirl45]

Rachel came out of her summer 2009 campaign with an injury that likely significantly effected her ability to continue to progress and improve to new levels in 2010.

The injury is a fact, but it's ultimate effect on her 4-yo performance level is just my opinion. You could very well be right and she just didn't mature and improve beyond her 3-yo level and wouldn't have, injury or no injury.

What injury did she experience? Her connections have denied she was anything but sound.

[EquineAnne]

The Mosses, Shirreffs, and Mario and Carmen flew in from California to see her run in the paddock for the first time. They were right there, and Z even ran to Mario when she saw him! I read somewhere that video is coming soon; probably it's still being edited. I can't wait.

Ha ha, edited this because I didn't see your edit. Are we all just giddy, or what? LOL

Mary MMM

We are giddy but I love it! I am so happy for all of them. I would have been crying my eyes out if I was there. I got so excited when I saw the pics I didn't read beyond the first paragraph.

[islandgirl45]

Some GREAT photos by Barbara Livingston of Zenyatta frolicking today in her wintery paddock!
http://drf.com/news/photos-zenyatta-play-her-lanes-end-paddock

These made my day!

You can almost feel her excitement. With her size, she looks as impressive as the stallions bucking and wheeling around their paddocks.

[EquineAnne]

You can almost feel her excitement. With her size, she looks as impressive as the stallions bucking and wheeling around their paddocks.

I hope it was filmed and they post it on YT.

[moonwalker]

We are giddy but I love it! I am so happy for all of them. I would have been crying my eyes out if I was there. I got so excited when I saw the pics I didn't read beyond the first paragraph.

My heart was leaping as high as Zenyatta was jumping in that first picture.
I can't wait for them to post the videos they took.

Mary MMM

[firehorse]

Great pics Mary! Thanks! :)

Giacomo just keeps getting lighter and lighter ... Pretty soon you won't be able to see him when he's in the snow. ;-)

Here's a picture of a picture I took of him at Del Mar back in 2007 ... My how he's changed!

Went straight to DRF Livingston blog to look at pictures of Z and found this

http://drf.com/blogs/catching-tin-man

Is this your Tin Man?

[bare it all]

What injury did she experience? Her connections have denied she was anything but sound.

Horses don't take months off at a time like she did without an injury. All racehorses have niggling little injuries, sound or not.

[Secretariat Forever]

She looks amazing and so happy! Can't wait to see the videos!

[islandgirl45]

Horses don't take months off at a time like she did without an injury. All racehorses have niggling little injuries, sound or not.

Yes, I know.

[Tappiano]

Look how high she gets in that first picture. Wow, she would have made a show jumper if that racing thing hadn't worked out. LOL

Mary MMM

I guess this is you
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=630404842 (http://www.facebook.com/#%21/profile.php?id=630404842)

We have lots of friends in common :bowl:
98 Mutual Friends (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.facebook.com%252Fpr ofile.php%253Fsk%253Dfriends%2526v%253Dfriends%252 6lfilter%253Dmutual&h=54fd9&cb=3&p=AQDGNkebxB9H1yyw-JeY1GEZCsOxwWObGnyEJreUb5ctUMQWy_vYtgF4MzrSqFtpm5Z x8ubu4eUUC-F8jeBc0zRoxTH2BF1hfz7sw1t04Rob6GSnONFLaQLL9ZOI0TU9 49-KPZY9kZQ2pKND)

[The Tin Man]

Went straight to DRF Livingston blog to look at pictures of Z and found this

http://drf.com/blogs/catching-tin-man

Is this your Tin Man?

Thanks SO much for the The Tin Man article firehorse! :)

Yep! ... That's my boy!

I'd been wondering how he was doing and am SO happy to see he's doing quite well. I hope his knee holds out and he lives a very long and happy life.

He STILL looks incredible!

I went to see him at Mandella's barn when he was recovering from his career ending injury. Here are some pics from that day in January 2008. :)

[The Tin Man]

I went to see him at Mandella's barn when he was recovering from his career ending injury. Here are some pics from that day in January 2008. :)

And another one from his racing days in mid 2007. :)

[moonwalker]

I guess this is you
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=630404842 (http://www.facebook.com/#%21/profile.php?id=630404842)

We have lots of friends in common :bowl:
98 Mutual Friends (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.facebook.com%252Fpr ofile.php%253Fsk%253Dfriends%2526v%253Dfriends%252 6lfilter%253Dmutual&h=54fd9&cb=3&p=AQDGNkebxB9H1yyw-JeY1GEZCsOxwWObGnyEJreUb5ctUMQWy_vYtgF4MzrSqFtpm5Z x8ubu4eUUC-F8jeBc0zRoxTH2BF1hfz7sw1t04Rob6GSnONFLaQLL9ZOI0TU9 49-KPZY9kZQ2pKND)

Yep! I've got a big horsey crowd on there.

Mary MMM

[drjohnh]

Some GREAT photos by Barbara Livingston of Zenyatta frolicking today in her wintery paddock!
http://drf.com/news/photos-zenyatta-play-her-lanes-end-paddock

These made my day!

great photos and i am so glad that she finally made it to the paddock. very nice that her human family showed up for the occasion

[Native Diver]

The pictures are glorious. Her joy is almost palpable at being at liberty to move as she pleased! I don't think I've ever seen her look more beautiful in a photo than these.

[JD]

Another picture today from Bloodhorse. Article has the same news:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60418/zenyatta-gets-free-time-in-paddock

[JD]

Thank you for restoring this thread. It is appreciated.

[Man o' Taz]

Wow...can't believe this moment was not recorded...but 7 pages ago...this thread eclipsed the Rachel, Rachel, Rachel...thread...:) :(

[JD]

Wow...can't believe this moment was not recorded...but 7 pages ago...this thread eclipsed the Rachel, Rachel, Rachel...thread...:) :(
I noticed. I even took a screen shot. When they have their foals, I'm sure things will even out. Love 'em both.

[Man o' Taz]

I noticed. I even took a screen shot. When they have their foals, I'm sure things will even out. Love 'em both.

Yep. Can't wait.

Watching the little Zenyatta's and Rachel's on the track will be a blast. Saddest thing is expectations. Both will be sky high...but I think like Barbaro's brothers...they'll be treated well. :)

[Horse's Rear]

Yep. Can't wait.

Watching the little Zenyatta's and Rachel's on the track will be a blast. Saddest thing is expectations. Both will be sky high...but I think like Barbaro's brothers...they'll be treated well. :)

I understand that negotiations are already in the works for a match race on the undercard of the Apple Blossom, 2015, going 8.5f, scale weight, for their first-born.

[Man o' Taz]

I understand that negotiations are already in the works for a match race on the undercard of the Apple Blossom, 2015, going 8.5f, scale weight, for their first-born.

:lol:

[Dusty]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/media/pdfs/BestOf2010.pdf

Did not see this posted!

[Pronzini]

Ok its not news since it is a month old but I've been busy and I haven't seen it posted elsewhere. Slate's sports guys and their take on Zenyatta on their podcast Hang Up and Listen.

http://www.slate.com/id/2272330/

It was interesting to hear utterly mainstream sports fans/ commentators talk racing and that might be her legacy.

[Man o' Taz]

Ok its not news since it is a month old but I've been busy and I haven't seen it posted elsewhere. Slate's sports guys and their take on Zenyatta on their podcast Hang Up and Listen.

http://www.slate.com/id/2272330/

It was interesting to hear utterly mainstream sports fans/ commentators talk racing and that might be her legacy.

Thanks. That was neat.

[Commentator]

Has this been posted? Sports Illustrated ranked the Classic among the best sports games/events of the year:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1012/games-events-of-the-year/content.36.html

[The Tin Man]

Has this been posted? Sports Illustrated ranked the Classic among the best sports games/events of the year:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1012/games-events-of-the-year/content.36.html

Damn! When we come after a mixed martial arts cage fight between Leonard Garcia and Chan Sung Jung ... We're REALLY struggling. :(

I just looked through them all and # 1 was Canada beating the US in hockey ... Maybe they're not in order. I would have figured the Saints winning the Super Bowl was 1st and I didn't see it in the 1st 38 events. So they mustn't be in order.

[BARNFOUR]

Has this been posted? Sports Illustrated ranked the Classic among the best sports games/events of the year:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1012/games-events-of-the-year/content.36.html

I hope they mentioned that Zenyatta was past Blame on the gallop out and would have won if she knew where the Churchill wire was.....

[GinTalking]

Has this been posted? Sports Illustrated ranked the Classic among the best sports games/events of the year:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1012/games-events-of-the-year/content.36.html

Huh? How can that be. No one broke down in it.

Sorry, I have a thing for SI.

[The Tin Man]

I hope they mentioned that Zenyatta was past Blame on the gallop out and would have won if she knew where the Churchill wire was.....

Finally words of wisdom from BF!! ;-)

[Hermes]

I hope they mentioned that Zenyatta was past Blame on the gallop out and would have won if she knew where the Churchill wire was.....

Nah, they were probably able to appreciate the epic battle for itself, and both horse's efforts without resorting to pissing matches and irrelevant points about gallop outs OR Gr. 1 races from nine months prior that neither horse was entered in, but that the last place eased horse in the Classic had won.;)

[firehorse]

I hope they mentioned that Zenyatta was past Blame on the gallop out and would have won if she knew where the Churchill wire was.....

What's interesting is that Blame is barely mentioned at all.

[Pronzini]

Thanks. That was neat.

Yeah I particularly liked the imagery of Ben Affleck asking her out on a date. Wait...have they solved the stallion issue?

[Valiant-Nature]

Nah, they were probably able to appreciate the epic battle for itself, and both horse's efforts without resorting to pissing matches and irrelevant points about gallop outs OR Gr. 1 races from nine months prior that neither horse was entered in, but that the last place eased horse in the Classic had won.;)

There is no place you can go, live or electronic, where so many people are more obsessed with the completely meaningless act of the "gallop out" than a small town known as TBC.

I don't get it. I've never gotten it. But it seems to show up in spades, especially in the Spring as the TC prep races begin. The amount of people who determine a young horses capabilities of getting a further distance by their gallop out is astounding...... and stupid.

[Man o' Taz]

There is no place you can go, live or electronic, where so many people are more obsessed with the completely meaningless act of the "gallop out" than a small town known as TBC.

I don't get it. I've never gotten it. But it seems to show up in spades, especially in the Spring as the TC prep races begin. The amount of people who determine a young horses capabilities of getting a further distance by their gallop out is astounding...... and stupid.

I agree with you. For determining a three year old horse's ability to succeed at a greater distance it is silly.

Now, what three year old gallop outs have to do with a mare who is proven at 10 furlongs and an older horse who proved himself at that distance in this race...remains up in the air...but thanks for sharing...

And it may even be silly in the context that we have been discussing it here...but it remains a fact that Zenyatta after the wire did pass Blame...for whatever that is worth...and as I suggested it ain't worth much but it does stand as evidence against those who suggested -- it did not happen... ;)