Zenyatta News

[carbonite]

Gamely - 1968 Vanity Handicap (131 pounds)

Gamely won the 1968 Vanity under 131. She was then bady beaten by males in the Hollywood Gold Cup. In her next start, she shipped to Saratoga and won an overnight handicap 1m prep under 132. She followed that by winning the Diana under 130, but was DQd. She then won the Beldame under weight-for-age and was fourth in an allowance race to complete her 1968 season.

She began her 1969 season after a seven-month layoff under 127 going 7f, winning the Santa Monica Handicap. Zenyatta's layoff is less than 5 months, but she is returning going more than a mile. I don't know who the last filly was to be assigned 127 or more going two turns in the first start off a layoff of more than 90 days. It's an interesting question.

[Hermes Redux]

Don't worry. Mike will take her wide enough to make up the two pounds so it will feel like 129+;)

[Rick1323]

8-19 pounds. Looks like a legit handicap to me. If it were my horse, they would be spotting me.

[starrydreamer]

Don't worry. Mike will take her wide enough to make up the two pounds so it will feel like 129+;)


:laugh: Kind of what I was thinking...

I just can't wait to see the big mare on the track racing again. I'm sure it won't be a walkover, since they do give money up to 5th place. And by now, CA trainers have to be used to getting spanked by Zenyatta.

[Diver67]

Let's see, Fair Grounds writes a special soft race for Rachel, making sure she won't have to carry Horse of the Year type weight, and that's fine. Santa Anita gives Zenyatta a pound or two break and its the Evil Empire. :huh:

[Hermes Redux]

Let's see, Fair Grounds writes a special soft race for Rachel, making sure she won't have to carry Horse of the Year type weight, and that's fine. Santa Anita gives Zenyatta a pound or two break and its the Evil Empire. :huh:


No. It's an example of the sheet inanity of running a handicap condition that won't be a true handicap. FG didn't name a race condition they couldn't or wouldn't meet. This situation is why the RS at SA wanted to change the condition of the SM and be done with it - far less disingenuous. Really has nothing to do with Z.

And when you wake up from the kool-aid, you'll see that neither race is hard, and equally soft.

[seahawkgal]

Let's see, Fair Grounds writes a special soft race for Rachel, making sure she won't have to carry Horse of the Year type weight, and that's fine. Santa Anita gives Zenyatta a pound or two break and its the Evil Empire. :huh:


No. It's an example of the sheet inanity of running a handicap condition that won't be a true handicap. FG didn't name a race condition they couldn't or wouldn't meet. This situation is why the RS at SA wanted to change the condition of the SM and be done with it - far less disingenuous. Really has nothing to do with Z.

And when you wake up from the kool-aid, you'll see that neither race is hard, and equally soft.


While I do agree with your last sentence I am afraid that the race in NO may not be soft enough for RA at her condition level. It's a shame when they rush these horses to make a race(Derby anyone?).

[Hermes Redux]

I agree about rushing Rachel. And the field.

But in Z's case, she seems ready - I just can't dismiss Tuscan Evening or Pretty Unusual that easily, or at least any more easily than I do Clear Sailing and Zardana for Rachel.

[SecretariatForever]

why some here are complaining that 127 is not enough for Zenyatta and Rachel (last year's HOTY :wink:) is carrying only 123 and no one is complaining that's not enough....well it's got me kind of confused.


well now that I look at who's doing the complaining, it makes perfect sense...never mind. :cool:



And Rachel's fitness level is fine. If it weren't she wouldn't be running. 100% fit or not she should win. It's not exactly a top notch field.

[Hermes Redux]

why some here are complaining that 127 is not enough for Zenyatta and Rachel (last year's HOTY :wink:) is carrying only 123 and no one is complaining that's not enough....well it's got me kind of confused.


well now that I look at who's doing the complaining, it makes perfect sense...never mind. :cool:



And Rachel's fitness level is fine. If it weren't she wouldn't be running. 100% fit or not she should win. It's not exactly a top notch field.

You shouldn't be confused IMO. It's been explained multiple times here and only takes a cursory comprehension of racing conditions. The answer is: because one race is run at handicap conditions - the SM at SA - and weights are assigned arbitrarily by racing secretary to theoretically even the field in an effort to have them all finish together based on their inherent ability (the original basis of handicap races), and the other, NO Ladies, is run at specific allowance conditions based on specific accomplishments to date, and assigns weights accordingly, regardless who the horse is or how much of an advantage one might have over others.

What you do seem most confused about is a proclamation about Rachel's fitness level. If you had a clue, you wouldn't doubt Asman on this matter. But then you contradict yourself in the next sentence, so who knows?

Here are the conditions for the NO Ladies Stakes as Lesson 1 for the day: (note Z would carry 123 here, too.)

Weight : 123 Lbs. Non-winners of a Grade I stakes at a mile or over since August 13th, 2009 allowed 2 lbs, of a Grade I or II stakes at a mile or over since June 13th, 2009 allowed 4 lbs, $50,000 twice at a mile or over since April 13th, 2009 allowed 6 Lbs

[Hermes Redux]

Z expected to face 5.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111293.html

[Rick1323]

The weights for either race are meaningless. Both are paid workouts. The fans get a treat, the track gets a crowd. What is the harm?

[Diver67]

I agree, there isn't any harm either way; I just got tired of posters complaining that Zenyatta wasn't being asked to carry a "fair" weight when she will be carrying more than Rachel and giving more of a "spread." And yes, HR, I do know the difference between a stakes and a handicap, but let's not act as if no race track since the beginning of time has ever given a "star" a break in a handicap!

[Hermes Redux]

I agree, there isn't any harm either way; I just got tired of posters complaining that Zenyatta wasn't being asked to carry a "fair" weight when she will be carrying more than Rachel and giving more of a "spread." And yes, HR, I do know the difference between a stakes and a handicap, but let's not act as if no race track since the beginning of time has ever given a "star" a break in a handicap!


That lesson wasn't directed at you and I personally have no problem with giving Z a break. I would have given her more of a break by spreading the weights less:)

[CalRacingFan]

I agree, there isn't any harm either way; I just got tired of posters complaining that Zenyatta wasn't being asked to carry a "fair" weight when she will be carrying more than Rachel and giving more of a "spread." And yes, HR, I do know the difference between a stakes and a handicap, but let's not act as if no race track since the beginning of time has ever given a "star" a break in a handicap!

If you don't want to saddle your horse with more weight, start your horse back by dropping them into a G2/G3 or an ungraded stakes. But to start them off in a G1 and expect low weights just makes a mockery of the SM's status as a G1. That's the big difference here - G1 vs ungraded stakes. As a result I expect Zenyatta to carry a heck of a lot more weight than Rachel.

[Dusty]

Whatever = HOY getting LESS weight? Come on.... Doesn't matter? Let's hope it doesn't... Go Big Z

[Oxfarm]

can a mare really hit her peak at the age of 6?! She really seems to be getting better and better as her connections all say! I hope so!! I wish we were able to see videos of her works!


Quite possibly. She was a somewhat late starter and bloomer, has been managed very well and had no huge issues. "6 is the new 4" in Zenyatta land.

[GreenasGrass]

Whatever = HOY getting LESS weight? Come on.... Doesn't matter? Let's hope it doesn't... Go Big Z


There was a race run last weekend @ Santa Anita. The high weight for males was 117. You may have heard of it, it's called the Santa Anita Handicap. If Zenyatta's connections were all that concerned about weight, that's where she would have kicked off her six year old season.

[Hermes Redux]

Whatever = HOY getting LESS weight? Come on.... Doesn't matter? Let's hope it doesn't... Go Big Z


When HOY runs in a stakes race with set conditions for all horses based on PP's, no. So which is more of a handicap, being rushed back from a six month lay off with 7 works in 7 weeks or carrying 127 pounds instead of 123 after staying in training?

ps it's the weight SPREAD that is more of an issue for Z, than the 127 for her.

[carbonite]

Here are the conditions for the NO Ladies Stakes as Lesson 1 for the day: (note Z would carry 123 here, too.)

Weight : 123 Lbs. Non-winners of a Grade I stakes at a mile or over since August 13th, 2009 allowed 2 lbs, of a Grade I or II stakes at a mile or over since June 13th, 2009 allowed 4 lbs, $50,000 twice at a mile or over since April 13th, 2009 allowed 6 Lbs

This is, of course, the REAL point. As is typical for them, the Mosses are being stupid and hurting their mare by doing so. There is NO reason for them to run at the assigned weights in California, when for a deduction of $30,000 to the winner, they could shave off 4 pounds actual weight and a swing of a dozen pounds concession, just by shipping Zenyatta to New Orleans and running their second string under handicap conditions. Instead, they wind up with a serious weight concession in their return race with the big mare and totally unjustifiable weight assignment that could have been avoided with Zardana. It's taking sporstmanship into the realm of self-destruction, but if they had done the right thing for their horses, the wailing and gnashing of teeth in here would have been hilarious, as people bent over backwards to protect the "superstar" who has yet to show that she can compete, much less win while giving concessions to competitors.

[Hermes Redux]

Huh?

[larryburndorf]

I am hoping sarcasm just didn't translate through type. :laugh:

[carbonite]

If all you are looking for is the best spot for Zenyatta--nothing else--on next weekend, the softest race is in New Orleans.

If you want to try and get the most for the money, send the second string there and try to take the bigger purse while giving weight in California. But if you are just looking out for Zenyatta, the New Orleans race offers lesser competition at easier weight assignments for nearly the same money. Put your horses in easy spots is generally the way to go. How does Zenyatta benefit from carrying 4 pounds more than she would be assigned in New Orleans?

[Hermes Redux]

She doesn't ship to an ungraded stakes on an unknown track to her to ruin the prep for Rachel, and the anticipation of the racing word for the Apple Blossom on April 9. Carb, normally I can follow you, but you need cut the blinkers back.

I'm sure the Big Mare can handle the handicap her folks agreed to race her in. She got in light as it is for her, although I think the spread is excessive so Hammerle could feel like he did his job, sorta.

[Dusty]

She doesn't ship to an ungraded stakes on an unknown track to her to ruin the prep for Rachel, and the anticipation of the racing word for the Apple Blossom on April 9. Carb, normally I can follow you, but you need cut the blinkers back.

I'm sure the Big Mare can handle the handicap her folks agreed to race her in. She got in light as it is for her, although I think the spread is excessive so Hammerle could feel like he did his job, sorta.

Exactly - let them have their preps - fair and clean races - I only wish they were not meeting so early in the year,,,

[carbonite]

She doesn't ship to an ungraded stakes on an unknown track to her to ruin the prep for Rachel, and the anticipation of the racing word for the Apple Blossom on April 9. Carb, normally I can follow you, but you need cut the blinkers back.

You're wearing the blinkers here.

It's never your job to take care of the other man's horse. Never. If someone "writes a race for Rachel"--or anyone else--it's open for anyone who fits that race. The right thing to do--always--is to put your horse in the race that fits your horse best. Whether you are talking about a non-winner-of-two-in-ninety-days or a stakes. There is very little justification to continue running Zenyatta, other than finding top competition for her to beat. It certainly doesn't help her to win another filly graded stakes race. She has done that repeatedly already. As the posts in this thread make clear, she gains nothing by coming back off the layoff under 127 (though I have yet to see anyone answer my question about the last filly to undertake that assignment). As you point out the weight assignment for her in "Rachel's race" would be 4 pounds less. Why is that Rachel's race and not her's? Put her in it, and if Rachel wants to meet her at even weights, fine. If she doesn't want to run there, let Rachel find a spot--they wouldn't weight her too heavily in the Santa Margherita. Putting kid gloves on in playing with Rachel doesn't help Zenyatta at all. Fans of Rachel want Zenyatta to stay away, and let Rachel "get ready" to face Zenyatta. That speaks volumes about who they think is the better horse.

[seahawkgal]

She doesn't ship to an ungraded stakes on an unknown track to her to ruin the prep for Rachel, and the anticipation of the racing word for the Apple Blossom on April 9. Carb, normally I can follow you, but you need cut the blinkers back.

You're wearing the blinkers here.

It's never your job to take care of the other man's horse. Never. If someone "writes a race for Rachel"--or anyone else--it's open for anyone who fits that race. The right thing to do--always--is to put your horse in the race that fits your horse best. Whether you are talking about a non-winner-of-two-in-ninety-days or a stakes. There is very little justification to continue running Zenyatta, other than finding top competition for her to beat. It certainly doesn't help her to win another filly graded stakes race. She has done that repeatedly already. As the posts in this thread make clear, she gains nothing by coming back off the layoff under 127 (though I have yet to see anyone answer my question about the last filly to undertake that assignment). As you point out the weight assignment for her in "Rachel's race" would be 4 pounds less. Why is that Rachel's race and not her's? Put her in it, and if Rachel wants to meet her at even weights, fine. If she doesn't want to run there, let Rachel find a spot--they wouldn't weight her too heavily in the Santa Margherita. Putting kid gloves on in playing with Rachel doesn't help Zenyatta at all. Fans of Rachel want Zenyatta to stay away, and let Rachel "get ready" to face Zenyatta. That speaks volumes about who they think is the better fitter horse.


Fixed.

[Irish Stamp]

It won't be a proper handicap.

A handicap should be a race where the weights dictate that all horses should finish at the same time - ie. Zen would carry 130 and the others most likely 116. Zenyatta carrying 124 and the others 118 will have only one outcome - a romp for The Z Monster and an epic fail by the handicapper.

[ManOTaz]

If all you are looking for is the best spot for Zenyatta--nothing else--on next weekend, the softest race is in New Orleans.

If you want to try and get the most for the money, send the second string there and try to take the bigger purse while giving weight in California. But if you are just looking out for Zenyatta, the New Orleans race offers lesser competition at easier weight assignments for nearly the same money. Put your horses in easy spots is generally the way to go. How does Zenyatta benefit from carrying 4 pounds more than she would be assigned in New Orleans?


The Mosses are engaged in a serious Horse of the Year campaign...Zenyatta will likely not run more than she did last year...five races...and they want every race to count...which means every race being a Grade I...

They do not want to miss out on the state sheet...so that there is absolutely no debate that she is the best out there...racing in an ungraded stakes race is not in the cards for their mare this year...

They believe in their horse carbonite...why don't you?

[carbonite]

The Mosses are engaged in a serious Horse of the Year campaign...Zenyatta will likely not run more than she did last year...five races...and they want every race to count...which means every race being a Grade I...

They conducted a serious campaign last year, the most serious campaign undertaken by any horse in the country. I'm sure that you haven't soured on Rachel enough to think that taking on the defending Horse of the Year would be considered a terrible step down from G1 quality--most people think Rachel is at least a G2-level competitor.

[gravano]

It won't be a proper handicap.

A handicap should be a race where the weights dictate that all horses should finish at the same time - ie. Zen would carry 130 and the others most likely 116. Zenyatta carrying 124 and the others 118 will have only one outcome - a romp for The Z Monster and an epic fail by the handicapper.


I think I'd rather watch Zenyatta run without all the weight neccessary to engineer a fair fight. I can gamble on other races.

[seahawkgal]

Are people really concerned about how much weight Z carries in this race? The weight spread is more of an issue than the weight IMO.
She is ready though. Shouldn't be a problem against this group.

[carbonite]

It won't be a proper handicap.

A handicap should be a race where the weights dictate that all horses should finish at the same time - ie. Zen would carry 130 and the others most likely 116. Zenyatta carrying 124 and the others 118 will have only one outcome - a romp for The Z Monster and an epic fail by the handicapper.


You seem to be misinformed. If by "proper handicap" you are alluding to European handicap weights, you will want to remember that in the states, up to 8 additional pounds of safety equipment is mandated, but not included in the "official weight," so the actual impost carried is higher than the recorded number.

The spread you point to is one stone--14 pounds. Zenyatta has been assigned 127 (plus equipment), not 124. The weight spread is as follows:

Floating Heart - 16 lbs from a G2 placing in her most recent start last month
Haka - 17 lbs from G1 placing last year
Pretty Unusual - 14 lbs from a G2 victory in January
Striking Dancer - 12 lbs off a G2 victory in her most recent start last month
Gripholm Castle - 15 lbs off a G2 placing in her most recent start last month.

By your standard, it looks a proper handicap.

[Hermes Redux]

Carb, um, I'm pretty sure Moss is running for 5 mil in April, not 200k ungraded on a first ship in mid March, so he can look like a poor sport, get Rachel to scratch at only 85% fit for her first out of the year in what is supposed to be a PREP for the race (and a long ship) that Moss wants to win so bad he can taste it.

Moss didn't become Jerry Moss by taking the short view as you have done, like you are managing a string of Asman claimers. Nor did he become Jerry Moss with as large a misunderstanding of marketing a big race, or what it takes to bring a horse back off a layoff as you. Moss isn't interested in "fans" like you who state that Rachel is not as good as Z because she had six months off - nor is he interested in beating her that way, nor would he waste the time wondering why she didn't run if he showed up in NO. Or why he should ship for 200k ungraded to run alone when he can win at home for 250k.

You are a smart guy, Carb, but when it comes to this subject, you are terribly off base. The NO Ladies was written for both mares as a matter of fact, but is simply too early in the year for their schedules. Maybe JS can explain why he said he wanted to run Z once before facing Rachel, too?

[Curlin]

It doesn't seem to matter what weight Z carries, someone will take exception to it - those who want fairness don't like stakes conditions, those who think high weight would mean a difficult comeback race don't like handicap conditions.

I'm not doubting the Mosses decision making at all in this instance. Their mare is head and shoulders above any f/m a west coast (or non-RA) owner enters into the Santa Margarita field. A 15 lb weight spread will mean little to a horse of her caliber, if she truly is as good, or maybe better, than she was last year. The prospect of her being even better is a scary one indeed.

Whether it's the first race of the year, or in mid-year, the fact remains, she is undefeated, and she is the BCC winner, which means she should carry a high weight. How long it will be before her imposts become potentially too high (135-140) is anyone's guess. I for one would like to know what the highest weight was that Spectacular Bid carried.

[TouchOfGrey]

I for one would like to know what the highest weight was that Spectacular Bid carried.

132

[Hermes Redux]

I wish that Moss had forced their hand and refused to race her unless they changed the SM to stakes condition, but he didn't, because that is probably not his style. But he had to be comfortable enough (or knew JS was) to run her there with 127 and the big weight spread.

There is not a chance in hell she will ever carry more than 130-132, and only against over matched left coast mares, later in the year. I'd bet a lot of money that JS will not ever let her carry more than that, if that.

hey Carb, when you find me the last undefeated two time champion older mare that has won a BC Classic, then I might have enough time to go find a high season debut impost for a nice mare from yesteryear;)

[Curlin]

I for one would like to know what the highest weight was that Spectacular Bid carried.

132


Surprised he didn't carry more, but wouldn't be surprised if one day, if Z remains undefeated, she carries similar weight.

[carbonite]

hey Carb, when you find me the last undefeated two time champion older mare that has won a BC Classic, then I might have enough time to go find a high season debut impost for a nice mare from yesteryear;)

No one ever has; Zenyatta is both the first female to win the Classic, and the only horse to win the Classic while remaining unbeaten. Now go find me the previous high season debut impost for a filly or mare.






I for one would like to know what the highest weight was that Spectacular Bid carried.

132


Surprised he didn't carry more, but wouldn't be surprised if one day, if Z remains undefeated, she carries similar weight.

Keep in mind that in the era in which Spectacular Bid ran, all equipment was computed in the posted weight: today's 127 is heavier than 127 was then.



You are a smart guy, Carb, but when it comes to this subject, you are terribly off base. The NO Ladies was written for both mares as a matter of fact, but is simply too early in the year for their schedules. Maybe JS can explain why he said he wanted to run Z once before facing Rachel, too?

Your dogged loyalty to Rachel makes you blind on this issue. As you say, the race was written to be open to both, and it was announced early (though Fair Grounds kept conditions unstated til late) enough that both could point to it. The point is that you should do what's right by your horse and not worry about the other guy's horse; when there is an opportunity to come back at 123 and another to come back at 127, the scale weight race is the better spot.

Let Asmussen decide when and where he wants to run his filly. Giving them a pass in the scale weight race is no guarantee that they will show up in Arkansas, as the connections have said very clearly. As usual, the Mosses are letting Jackson dictate terms.

[Hermes Redux]

I just shake my head at you Carb on this one. I am not the dogged blind one. I like both mares. And am fair and in equal awe of both. Was just thinking today that I'll be more sad for the one that loses than happy for the one that wins if they ever face off.

Carb, you just don't get it. They have agreed to meet in the Apple Blossom if both are healthy and 100%. That's the deal. That is the GOAL here. Sherriffs is the one that openly stated he did not want to face Rachel first out this year. If he did go to NO prep, Rachel wouldn't, and the 5 mil Apple Blossom they are both pointing for would be kaput.

You are not a big picture kind of guy, are you?

BTW, the 127 instead of 123 is not a big deal to a horse like Z. At all. The 12-19 lb. weight spread might be depending on the pace, but that was JS choice to race her in a handicap, and intended target all along. He did not want to ship her east TWICE back to back, or risk a sloppy sealed FG track, or race Rachel at a shorter distance. JS can read a condition book and take all variables for an entire season into account. In case you missed it last year, he planned her entire season to be at peak in the Classic? So I imagine he knows what he is doing by now to have her at another peak on April 9 - without shipping twice, or making sure the purse is reduced by 4.5 mil for his mare.

FG made it clear that the NO Ladies would be tailored to fit either or both horses, weight for age (with the allowances only for lesser horses, not multiple Gr. 1 winners.)

[carbonite]

As I said last year, I think that they did a marvellous job pursuing a championship campaign last year with their mare. I think they did everything right, and should have walked away pleased with how it all worked out.

It's hard to make up much of a reason for racing this year, but the two best answers are "we love to watch her run and she has some races left in her"; and "we want to beat the filly that won the trophy." The Santa Margherita is not a particularly important trophy to put on the shelf, though it is I suppose the only western filly Grade 1 she doesn't already own.

But you keep saying that they should be accommodating Rachel's plans, and that is just never the way you should manage your own horse. Horatio Luro had it right: keep yourself in the best company and your horse in the worst company. The softest filly race this March is in Louisiana. That's a better spot to run in. Especially if you are using the race as a prep.

[Hermes Redux]

Let me be sure I read that correctly, racing against Rachel is the worst of company? Or forcing her out of the 200k ungraded prep that you have to ship to (so that you have two ships within 30 days), that might be run on a sealed sloppy track, after Z's trainer said he did not want to race against Rachel first out, and would then assure himself of not racing against for 5 mil on April 9 if he were to show up on Mar 13 in NO?

You know, Carb, I'm pretty sure they didn't bring her back THIS year to duck Rachel (by forcing her out of her prep and therefore the 5 mil AB they are both actually aiming for) or conversely, to catch her at her worst in first race back off six month lay off so she'd have a built in excuse for a loss - or even want to take the chance of giving her the advantage of 1 1/16 miles on her home track (while they ship) and a potentially sloppy surface that RA relishes...

We go round and round.

I'm glad JS is calling these shots;)

[whbar158]

I am still sure that if you look at the % of weight Z is carrying compared to her competition that she is carrying a smaller % than everything else.
Its been said she is about 1300lbs right? well 127 is 9.7% of her weight, Powerofvoodoo at the lowest weight 108, even if she was 1200lbs that is 9% of her body weight. If she were a little mare it would be different, but I really don't think the weight will matter for horse unless they really pile it on.

RA is a big girl too, I would say about 1200lbs, 123 is 10.25% of her weight.....

[carbonite]

HR, I hope you realize that you have now gotten yourself so turned around that you are trying to claim that if Zenyatta went to New Orleans she would be "ducking" Rachel. That is, of course, utterly false. The New Orleans race would assign Zenyatta 123; the California race assigns her 127. The better management plan is to put her in the 123 race. There is absolutely no reason why if the horses ran 1-2--in either direction--they could not come right back the next month and stage a rematch.

But what we are looking at is the following:

In California, you are saddled with 127 lbs in your return from a layoff, and you face the 1-, 2-, 3-finishers from a G2 who are TAKING OFF 1 lb, 4 pounds, and 5 pounds respectively; another runner who was G1 placed last year comes in taking 9 pounds off an allowance victory in her most recent start; and the fifth entrant won a G2 in January--she comes in six pounds under that G2 impost and three pounds under her most recent effort where she was unplaced in a G2 on turf.

In the New Orleans race, you would carry 123 and you would face:
a multiple G1 winner making her first start in six months, picking up 5 pounds from that race and carrying her career highweight in only her second encounter outside her age group;
you would give two pounds to Zardana, who won a G2 last year and picks up four pounds off her last effort where she was unplaced in a G2;
the other three would receive 6 pounds from you--they are a n3x-eligible who won a 58K stake her last out and is taking off one pound from that assignment; an allowance non-winner in six months, who has yet to earn black type, but was runner up in that little 58K stake last out and takes one pound off that assignment; and a graded-placed stakes winner, who was seventh in a restricted stake last out, and take five pounds off that performance.

If all you are interested in is "which assignment is the easier spot for Zenyatta"--and I believe that is what you should be interested in--the race is in New Orleans. Go there and let the other people decide what they want to do.

[Spahny]

Too much knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Zenyatta is training exactly as she was prior to the Breeder's Cup. She is a layoff horse but one that is primed to fire a big race. She'll get another grade one win and enough of a workout to move her forward to her next start which is in the Apple Blossom, Rachel or no Rachel.

The Santa Margarita is in the bag. One has to marvel at how much these connections will be criticized no matter what they do or where they go. It's a perfectly logical comeback race. Hopefully, it's only a beginning. The way she has looked in the mornings I am expecting many more encores. Zenyatta is thriving. It's actually quite simple.

[Hermes Redux]

Carb, see if you can follow. If Z goes to NO, Rachel scratches as first out against Z. Moss knows this. Then Rachel misses her prep and won't go in AB. Voila. Moss ducked by forcing the issue. It's really really not as hard as you are trying to make it. These are not claimers being spotted for the drop Carb. The ADDED ship for Z, less money, less distance, possibly sloppy track, no grade more than make up for 127. They = more like 132+. Besides, Z wouldn't have gone to NO Ladies even if Rachel was on the shelf, elsewhere, or retired. What has happened to your brain? Do you need a change of equipment, too?

BTW, do you know more than JS about why he doesn't want to face Rachel first out?

[carbonite]

Carb, see if you can follow. If Z goes to NO, Rachel scratches as first out against Z. Moss knows this. Then Rachel misses her prep and won't go in AB. Voila. Moss ducked by forcing the issue.

If Z wins in California and Rachel wins in Louisiana, and Rachel comes back blowing pretty good and two days later Jess says that he is skipping the Oaklawn race as he said they would unless everything is perfect, then you have a repeat of last year: Jackson does the right thing for his horse, while Moss hides in California, beating up the same group of synthetic runners. The double standard posters are already making that argument in the other thread. The passive approach penalized them last year and offers no benefit this year. When you have an advantage, you should press it.

[Hermes Redux]

Well it's not happening that way, not that Z would she ever ship to FG for an ungraded 200 grander, so I'm moving on.

Interestingly, while JS said he wanted a race in her before facing Rachel the day she was "unretired" in Jan, and indeed he will get one Sat, he also told Haskin a week ago that Z could be ready for AB without a prep.

This is from Haskin's blog entry today. (The last graph really really really annoys me in terms of Jackson camp, and OTOH, was typically idiotic of NTRA to phrase it that way.)

Haskin blog March 9 A field of five or six is expected to be drawn tomorrow for the Santa Margarita.

Mike Smith said of Zenyatta's weight assignment on today's NTRA teleconference, "It's a lot of weight to spot them starting off the year, but fortunately for us she's a big mare and carries her weight very well, so, hopefully, it won't bother her too much. She's ready for something and I'm really looking forward to it."

Speaking of the teleconference, NTRA's Eric Wing informed the media that, "Unfortunately, repeated attempts to get someone from the Rachel Alexandra camp failed."

[SecretariatForever]

Interestingly, while JS said he wanted a race in her before facing Rachel the day she was "unretired" in Jan, and indeed he will get one Sat, he also told Haskin a week ago that Z could be ready for AB without a prep.




It basically just means JS would prefer she have a prep before the AB but she doesn't necessarily need one. Nothing "interesting" about it.

Also, the day she was "unretired" was what like 2 months ago? With the way she has been reported to be working especially recently, it doesn't surprise me JS now thinks she doesn't really need a prep.

[Hermes Redux]

SF, I'll be the arbiter of what I find interesting if you don't mind? Thanks.

[SecretariatForever]

SF, I'll be the arbiter of what I find interesting if you don't mind? Thanks.



no problem. :wink:

[littlelate]

If Z wins in California and Rachel wins in Louisiana, and Rachel comes back blowing pretty good and two days later Jess says that he is skipping the Oaklawn race as he said they would unless everything is perfect, then you have a repeat of last year: Jackson does the right thing for his horse, while Moss hides in California, beating up the same group of synthetic runners. The double standard posters are already making that argument in the other thread. The passive approach penalized them last year and offers no benefit this year. When you have an advantage, you should press it.
lolwut? Where was RA during the BC? Oh, poor baby was TIIIIRED from beating up Macho Again, needed nap time. Who did the hiding, exactly? Zen proved exactly what she was in that single race that Jess was too scared to consider. Probably was having Curlin flashbacks.

[SecretariatForever]

If Z wins in California and Rachel wins in Louisiana, and Rachel comes back blowing pretty good and two days later Jess says that he is skipping the Oaklawn race as he said they would unless everything is perfect, then you have a repeat of last year: Jackson does the right thing for his horse, while Moss hides in California, beating up the same group of synthetic runners. The double standard posters are already making that argument in the other thread. The passive approach penalized them last year and offers no benefit this year. When you have an advantage, you should press it.



wait so let me get this right...basically if Rachel's connections decide it's a no go to the Apple Blossom because she comes out of her prep tired (which I highly doubt she will), don't forget that even after her prep in a few days she still has over 3 weeks to rest and prepare for the AB, but Zenyatta still goes to the AB, then that means Zenyatta's connections are doing wrong by their horse and they are the ones ducking Rachel and staying in CA?

hmmm... :undecided: :huh:

[carbonite]

In another thread going on right now, Miss Woodford has already dismissed the field of G2 winners to whom Zenyatta is conceding more than a dozen pounds as the same old "allowance" horses, while contrasting that to what she claims is a much "tougher" field in New Orleans. Just one page above, in this thread, Hermes Redux, attempted to make the bizarre claim that if Zenyatta ran in the New Orleans race it would be an instance of "ducking" a matchup with Rachel by not letting her get her hair and nails done properly in preparation for the prom. Multiple posters have already been saying that they think the Apple Blossom comes up too quick on the calendar for Rachel, and it is clear that if Jess pulls out--as he has already suggested he will--that the same support that rallied to his side when he skipped the big event last year will rally to his support again.

Playing the PR game of setting up a big event is something the Mosses do very poorly and Jess does very well. Instead of being stooges in the Rachel drama, they should just run their mare in the spot that fits her best. You never know when any of these horses is making her last trip to the track, and you should never take a tougher assignment than you need to just to satisfy your opponents.

[whbar158]

Last year it just looked like they ran her in some pretty easy spots, then finally took the chance in the BCC. I am pretty sure that Z could have demolished any of the G 1's (including the boys) and even with a limited number of races could have been HOY if they had done that I don't even think they would have had to leave Cali they just needed to race in the biggest races and not against the same mares every race. RA was tired after the woodward and really I have no problem with Jess not wanting to run her over the sythn why run your horse over a surface you don't think they will like that doesn't usually help front runners? RA raced 8 times in 8 months, taking on the boys 3 different times, including older males, something 3 year old fillies rarely do. Z has never raced that much so close together. I think both horses are incredible, and even though some wish they had not come along around the same time, I am glad they did, a little rivalry is a good thing. At this time Z might be better, shes older and likely stronger, but she has not been showcased the way RA has, which I think is too bad. I would have loved to see her in open races all last year, because I believe she would have won easily. Can you imagine a mare winning the big 3 out there?

[ManOTaz]

Playing the PR game of setting up a big event is something the Mosses do very poorly and Jess does very well. Instead of being stooges in the Rachel drama, they should just run their mare in the spot that fits her best. You never know when any of these horses is making her last trip to the track, and you should never take a tougher assignment than you need to just to satisfy your opponents.


True words...

We always hope there will be another race, but one never really knows for certain...






An excellent post. I could not agree more. There were two ways Zenyatta could have been HOTY in 2009...face the boys twice...OR race outside of CA once at Churchill Downs as she was scheduled to.

I cannot fault her connections for choosing not to tire her with a 10 furlong race in the Pacific Classic on a surface she did not like, but still managed to win over. Her trainer had her peak in the most important race of the year and seeing how the horses who raced in the Pacific Classic fared in the BCC could tell something, but she might have tried the boys when Life is Sweet did in the Hollywod Gold Cup. The past is prologue.

We can only hope for some great opportunites to see Rachel and Zenyatta race more this year.

I am hoping for Zenyatta to visit New York...and Belmont Park and Churchill Downs for races.

She has already demonstrated her skill and tenacity in the West, and now it is time for us Eastern folks to be able to witness her greatness in those two racing cathedrals... :grin:

[SecretariatForever]

really I have no problem with Jess not wanting to run her over the sythn why run your horse over a surface you don't think they will like that doesn't usually help front runners?


Rachel HAS raced on the synthetic and won without any problem though. :wink:

[ManOTaz]

really I have no problem with Jess not wanting to run her over the sythn why run your horse over a surface you don't think they will like that doesn't usually help front runners?


Rachel HAS raced on the synthetic and won without any problem though. :wink:


And polytrack is just like pro ride? :wink:

[SecretariatForever]

really I have no problem with Jess not wanting to run her over the sythn why run your horse over a surface you don't think they will like that doesn't usually help front runners?


Rachel HAS raced on the synthetic and won without any problem though. :wink:


And polytrack is just like pro ride? :wink:



synthetic is synthetic.

but okay, so Jackson was afraid his oh so immortal filly couldn't handle a little bit of a surface difference (if you can call it that) I guess? :shocked: :wink:

[Hermes Redux]

Zenyatta, the total pro:

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111342.html

[Rick1323]

Now that is a horse that understands her job completly.

[Codysmom55]

Zenyatta, the total pro:

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111342.html


That's a nice article. Thanks for posting it.

[Unknown Fact]

Zenyatta, the total pro:

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111342.html


I haven't been paying a lot of attention, but this can't be correct...can it? (listed among Rachel's works)

3/2/10
6F
Fast
1:36.60
Breezing
1/2

[whbar158]

And who did RA beat on the sythn? it was an allowance race, MTB won on sythn too and couldn't run a lick on the pro-ride. Her style is very much a dirt track style. But anyways this is a thread about Z and I was surprised by there being 9 horses in her race!

[ZJ]

Zenyatta, the total pro:

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111342.html


I haven't been paying a lot of attention, but this can't be correct...can it? (listed among Rachel's works)

3/2/10
6F
Fast
1:36.60
Breezing
1/2


Definitely not... I think that one was 1:13 and change if i remember correctly.

[SecretariatForever]

And who did RA beat on the sythn? it was an allowance race, MTB won on sythn too and couldn't run a lick on the pro-ride. Her style is very much a dirt track style. But anyways this is a thread about Z and I was surprised by there being 9 horses in her race!




Rachel and MTB are two different horses. With two very different running styles. Just because MTB couldn't run as well on the proride doesn't mean Rachel would have taken to it the same way. heck, Summerbird transfered pretty darn well.

[carbonite]

Zenyatta, the total pro:

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111342.html


I haven't been paying a lot of attention, but this can't be correct...can it? (listed among Rachel's works)

3/2/10
6F
Fast
1:36.60
Breezing
1/2


Definitely not... I think that one was 1:13 and change if i remember correctly.

It's a typo for 1:13.60

[GinTalking]

synthetic is synthetic.


Actually, no they aren't the same surfaces at all any more than all turf courses are the same or all dirt tracks are the same.

[SecretariatForever]

synthetic is synthetic.


Actually, no they aren't the same surfaces at all any more than all turf courses are the same or all dirt tracks are the same.



yes.. synthetic is synthetic but I did not say they were all "exactly the same" but they aren't THAT much different. Not like the difference between dirt and synthetic.

[whbar158]

I still don't think saying that a very good horse was able to beat some allowance horses on the sythn means they can handle it well enough to go against the best horses, some of them sythn specialists.

Can't wait to see the girls run this weekend!

[Hermes Redux]

The Queen has arrived.

http://www.santaanita.com/stablenotes/stable-notes-ed-golden-49

[SecretariatForever]

Smith: Zenyatta may be better than last season

http://drf.com/news/article/111376.html




Smith has been working Zenyatta in the last month, and has noticed a change in the 6-year-old. She seems better than last year, he said.

"I think she's more forward this year than last year," he said. "You might see a big race out of her first time back. If I didn't know better, I'd think she's stronger than last year.

"She's getting to her company really fast and being very aggressive about it. If she does that, we'll see something pretty cool."

[GinTalking]

http://www.pebsite.com/

These are kind of neat, I think.

[SecretariatForever]

http://www.pebsite.com/

These are kind of neat, I think.


kind of gave me a giggle. :tongue:

and about the one photo...can a horse really win by a tongue?!? :huh:

[Blue Jeans]

http://www.pebsite.com/

These are kind of neat, I think.


kind of gave me a giggle. :tongue:

and about the one photo...can a horse really win by a tongue?!? :huh:


You read my mind! :azn:

Love his work, and there's no guessing .... he nails 'em. Thanks for posting.

[PJMIII]

Will Weight Disadvantage Stop Zenyatta?

For Zenyatta, the wait is over?but not the weight. The undefeated mare will carry top weight of 127 pounds March 13 when she makes her 2010 debut in the $250,000 Santa Margarita Handicap (gr. I), spotting eight who entered from 12 to 19 pounds in the nine-furlong race.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55864/will-weight-disadvantage-stop-zenyatta

[SecretariatForever]

stop making me nervous! :evil:


:tongue:

[CalRacingFan]

http://www.pebsite.com/

These are kind of neat, I think.

I love that Zenyatta's eyes are looking upward towards the sky where Mike is pointing.

The Charismatic one is moving, very sad.

[JT Dancer]

I got to see the big girl schooling in the paddock today, and she is looking good! That was my first time seeing her in the flesh, and she did not disappoint. She is like a magnet, just drawing you to her. She's so dappled and filled out and fit; I cannot wait for the race.

[Native Diver]

I got to see the big girl schooling in the paddock today, and she is looking good! That was my first time seeing her in the flesh, and she did not disappoint. She is like a magnet, just drawing you to her. She's so dappled and filled out and fit; I cannot wait for the race.


Me too! I can't wait to see her on the track. Thanks for the visual! :grin:

[SecretariatForever]

I got to see the big girl schooling in the paddock today, and she is looking good! That was my first time seeing her in the flesh, and she did not disappoint. She is like a magnet, just drawing you to her. She's so dappled and filled out and fit; I cannot wait for the race.


you're so lucky!!

[Hermes Redux]

Mike is a classy guy.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2010/March/12/Smith-eager-to-reunite-with-Zenyatta.aspx

Smith will be rooting for Rachel Alexandra today. The scheduled post time for the New Orleans Ladies is 6:15 p.m. EST, 21 minutes before the Santa Margarita at 6:36 p.m. EST.

"I'm a big fan of hers, too," Smith said. "I mean, I hope she's doing well and I hope she runs big and we run well and we can meet on the [April] 9th in Arkansas."

Zenyatta will spot her rivals between 12 and 19 pounds as the 127-pound highweight in the Santa Margarita. She carried 129 pounds to victory in the Vanity Handicap (G1) last June in her second start of 2009.

"I sure hope it won't make a difference," Smith said. "But it is a lot of weight to spot horses, especially in her first race back. On the bright side, she's a big mare. She handles weight really well. It is a lot of weight to spot, but what are you going to do? We got what we got."

HorseRacing Television (HRTV) will carry both the New Orleans Ladies and Santa Margarita live, and the National Thoroughbred Racing Association will kick off a new feature on its website, www.ntra.com (http://www.ntra.com), with live coverage hosted by Randy Moss.

The New Orleans Ladies and Santa Margarita are in the middle of more than two hours of stakes action that includes three important Triple Crown preps: the Tampa Bay Derby (G3) at 5:30 p.m., Rebel Stakes (G2) at 6:47 p.m., and San Felipe Stakes (G2) at 7:38 p.m. All times are Eastern.

[SecretariatForever]

there are a couple of videos on youtube of Zenyatta schooling yesterday

[GinTalking]

I don't do Breyers (other than how well some of you folks paint them), but a friend of mine found this and thinks THIS should be the model for Zenyatta's Breyer ... not the Ruffian model.

Zenyatta has the same build as Ruffian? Hmmm, who knew.

Ah well, in the words of Vic Stauffer ....

THIS IS ZENYATTA ... http://www.breyerhorses.com/products/product.php?item=1352

[GinTalking]

It occurred to me last Monday, in a very quirky, not really, sort of way, that I should have liquidated my IRA and bet it all on Zenyatta ...

but I'm not a very lucky person and this would be the time when Mike Smith would fall off.

Anyone else tempted to do something similar?

[carbonite]

I don't expect her to be a bettable price.

[GinTalking]

I don't expect her to be a bettable price.


No, really? You're far too serious to answer this insanely silly question.

Who would you rather bet your IRA on a possible winner at a longer price or a probable winner at a crappy price ... the object being to make easy money in a couple of minutes?

[Sheepish]

THIS IS ZENYATTA ... http://www.breyerhorses.com/products/product.php?item=1352


That's called the Hanoverian mold, and I agree, it does remind one of Zenyatta.

But it's an older mold, so it's rather rough. It would need a gender change, too.

[Noble]

I got to see the big girl schooling in the paddock today, and she is looking good! That was my first time seeing her in the flesh, and she did not disappoint. She is like a magnet, just drawing you to her. She's so dappled and filled out and fit; I cannot wait for the race.
Zenyatta is one of the most charismatic racehorses ever. Wait for her before she is heading to the saddling area. Right before post time for Santa Anita's 6th race. Around 3:00p-3:10p. She might even stop for a few seconds and strike a pose for you.

Zenyatta will make you enjoy yourself while laughing and smiling BEFORE the race happens. She will be livid and pumped for the race. Pawing the ground and acting aggressive to her groom. Then when you stand close to winner's circle, you will see signs for her. A blond lady with glasses has one that says "Girl Power" on it with a picture of a horse flexing her bicep. By the time she is in the post parade, she will walk with her head high and her neck arched.

I saw the entire 2009 BCC field in person. Many of them are good-looking. Colonel John, Summer Bird, Einstein, Quality Road, etc. But I will still drawn to Zenyatta the most. She just towers the field and stands out. That's charisma. Even the silks matches well with her coat under the California sunshine with the San Gabriel mountains in the background.She's a true Hollywood star.

Maybe as a racehorse, Z isn't as talented as Rachel. Who knows? But based off charisma, I like Z's chances winning that debate. My all-time fav horses were not always the best or most talented. Many them are my favorite because of their unique charm when I saw them in person.

Wait until Oaklawn sees her again next month...

For now, enjoy yourself! I guarantee alot of fun and alot of dancing back to the betting windows to cash-in on those winning tickets with her... ;)

[carbonite]

I don't expect her to be a bettable price.


No, really? You're far too serious to answer this insanely silly question.

I'm sorry I took you seriously. My mistake.

[Rick1323]

I know a guy who sometimes participates in our Pick 6 syndicate who is also an occasional bridge jumper. He hit 9 of 10 in a f month period and broke even. He lost the last bet which killed his profit for the year.

[carbonite]

I was thinking about that earlier. There's likely to be a tremendous minus show pool in New Orleans.

[GinTalking]

That's called the Hanoverian mold, and I agree, it does remind one of Zenyatta.

But it's an older mold, so it's rather rough. It would need a gender change, too.


As I said, I know nothing about Breyers, but when you have a horse who has such a distinct look (in her case, the walk), it might almost make sense to come up with a new mold. Maybe that's not cost effective? Granted, most horses, with the right paint job, could likely be passed off as anyone assuming basic body type is similar.

[Noble]

I'll probably make a small 4-horse exacta box wager #2-5.

If Rachel comes 1-2, I lose money but not all of it. But maybe Cal gets too anxious with Rachel (who could be 80%) by chasing Freedom Fighter early and getting pressured from Zardana behind her. Maybe she fades to 3rd.Any exacta combination of Zardana, Clear Sailing, and Unforgotten will pay so much more because everyone is keying RA on top. No superfecta wager either. Hey, Gentlemen once came last in a four-horse field for the 1998 Big Cap. Anything can happen.

The 9-horse field in the Santa Margarita makes it a better race to wager. More exotic wagering like the superfecta. Better straight ex/tri/super payouts because of more choices. There is NO money to make at a 1/9 ML shot. Playing Z for a win wager is pointless. But since the 2nd fav will likely go off at least 8-1, there is some good payouts with the place and show pool whether you are trying to beat Zenyatta or not. I'm playing a straight exacta bet. #8 on top with maybe 1, 2, 6. It's the two Hollendorfer horses and Voodoo. 50/1 ML. Maybe Pretty Unusual and Striking Dancer don't come in 2nd, right? Much better betting opportunities in the Santa Margarita than the NO Ladies. You need to try to beat Rachel in FG just to make any profit. Have her run 3rd and 4th. She's likely going to romp. Not the case in the SM if you know how to target the longshots for 2nd and 3rd.

[carbonite]

But since the 2nd fav will likely go off at least 8-1, there is some good payouts with the place and show pool whether you are trying to beat Zenyatta or not.

I don't see how you can anticipate "good payouts with the place and show pool" if you imagine that the pools are being shared with a 1/9 shot. Any time a horse wins at 1/9, the place and show payoffs are miniscule; too much of the pool is swallowed up by the chalkplayers.

[GinTalking]

No action here?

[GreenasGrass]

Congrats to the Santa Magarita winner, Zenyatta.

[GinTalking]

Very nicely done. Nice to not see her have to go wide for the 15th time.

[carbonite]

She's a remarkable mare.

[Turul]

Just don't see why Trevor is yelling "unbelievable"...what is so unbelievable?

[Majella from Ireland]

I hoestly had to look away down the backstretch. There was no way she could win that.. no way. But she did. I LOVE YOU ZEN!!!!! You made me smile again! :grin:

[Harrison Bergeron]

WOW!

[Dance Fly]

Good ride my MS. Z looked fantastic!

[Midwest Racing]

Nice traffic dance, lol! Just like always. She's as close to a sure thing as it gets :kiss:

[PONYRCR]

WOW!! Just when you think she's gonna get beat she pulls it off.

Hate to say it but I don't think Rachel stands a chance against her.

[honneerider]

WOW-and I had to watch on Calracing. My heart was in my throat as usual!
Good girl, Z!

[Blue Jeans]

She's a remarkable mare.


Yes she is! She made #15 .... only 4 to go and she ties with Peppers Pride! Cheers to "Z" and company!

Love that mare! :kiss:

[Allspice]

God, Zenyatta looked beat again but she just...wow. She is a monster. That is what, the third time in her last four starts she looked beaten? And somehow she won. She is just something else. :grin:

[SecretariatForever]

HOLY CRAP!

this live news feed just makes things more like WHAT THE ^^&%&^*(*^^! :azn:

All I saw was
Zen about 8 lengths behind around the final turn
then she's within a few lengths with no where to go
then she skips to the inside
then she's at the wire under wraps

that's it, it was like video stills. haha!

I was like what? I didn't think she was going to make it there in time with the late running room not only did she make it there she did it EASILY, hardly any urging and no whip. wowey!! I'm still shaking!

[KatieD]

Wonderful, she's just wonderful. What a mare!!!
Love her, her sheer talent, he class and most of all, her character - "we're goin' this way Mike? Oh, okay. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH"
She'd have shoved them out of her way if she had to. :cool:
Thank you to those who made it possible for this very happy Brit to watch the best thoroughbred racehorse of her lifetime so far race live.

[Miss Woodford]

Nowhere near as close as it looked, Mike knew he could win from any position, as Z would eat the horse in front of her.

[GinTalking]

Nice traffic dance, lol! Just like always. She's as close to a sure thing as it gets :kiss:


Agree. I never bet a bunch to win on a horse, but I bet on her .... just 'cause. And no, I don't care how much I got back. That wasn't the point.

[starrydreamer]

She's just amazing. Mike almost gave me a heart attack though, getting her into traffic. It's like he's realized that she'll bully her way through anything, so he's having some fun. He was clearly not concerned whether she'd catch the leader since he never hit her.

[Catlaunch]

Congratulations to the best race horse in the world!

[Kurenai]

I just love her. She's bad for my health (heart rate and all that) but I love her! :grin: :azn:

[Majella from Ireland]

If they do meet up, Rachel's gona get her *** kicked :wink: Well based on their performances today. I love Zen!

[Blue Jeans]

She's just amazing. Mike almost gave me a heart attack though, getting her into traffic. It's like he's realized that she'll bully her way through anything, so he's having some fun. He was clearly not concerned whether she'd catch the leader since he never hit her.

Will we ever know what Ms Z is really capable of doing on that track? Not yet, huh? Mike knows that mare! :grin:

[moonwalker]

Did Zenyatta throw a shoe or something? After Mike got her stopped, he was loving on her neck then peering down at her left front leg. It wasn't that he was watching her dance (she wasn't, then then) but checking out her leg or foot intently. Apparently all was OK though, since he rode her back to the winner's circle.

Mary MMM

[Kurenai]

I noticed that too. He probably was checking cause she had to split horses. Could be that the other horse stepped on her a bit. But she looked fine!

[BornToWin]

She is extraordinary. Beautiful, powerful and talented. That problem solving skill she's showing now makes her more formidable, if that is possible. She's thinking and working and then the warrior queen moves to the front to lead the others into battle.

Though she's large, she is so refined. So "thoroughbredy" in type. Her balance and proportion perfect. That long neck and beautiful headpiece. She always gives us an "exciting" run! :)) She's pure fun.

[SecretariatForever]

I noticed that too. He probably was checking cause she had to split horses. Could be that the other horse stepped on her a bit. But she looked fine!


I agree. I think he may have thought she might have been clipped by another horse when skipping to the inside.

[GinTalking]

I thought it looked like the guy on the horse who was on the rail eased his horse back a little so Zenyatta had a clear shot at getting through. He knew he was done so no harm done.

And I thought he was looking down and maybe back, but I don't have my DVR any more so I can rerun it. He did seem to be looking at something though, didn't he.

[PJMIII]

Zenyatta 'will run' at Oaklawn

On a cloudy afternoon at Santa Anita Race Course, trainer John Shirreffs sent a message to fellow horseman Steve Asmussen. Mano a mano, game on.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=4993599

[Blue Jeans]

Zenyatta 'will run' at Oaklawn

On a cloudy afternoon at Santa Anita Race Course, trainer John Shirreffs sent a message to fellow horseman Steve Asmussen. Mano a mano, game on.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=4993599


While reading this article, I saw another one posted titled .... Rachel not likely to be in Apple Blossom ....

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=4994841 :sad:

[GinTalking]

Rachel's out ...

so it's time to showcase Zenyatta somewhere outside California. With any luck, she'll make another trip a bit more East of Arkansas. That's what people want.

[EquineAnne]

Rachel's out ...

so it's time to showcase Zenyatta somewhere outside California. With any luck, she'll make another trip a bit more East of Arkansas. That's what people want.



What people wanted was the AB meet which is quite far from CA. Zen is going as promised. RA isn't quite up to par so she will not. Her connections cannot risk her losing again and this time to Zen. I don't blame them.

[weatherbird]

Rachel's out ...

so it's time to showcase Zenyatta somewhere outside California. With any luck, she'll make another trip a bit more East of Arkansas. That's what people want.


It may not be what people want but, after Arkansas, she'll probably go: Vanity (June 13) and Hollywood Gold Cup (July 10)

[Noble]

If Zenyatta's connections are willing to go through their detention barn again, I hope she gets sent to Belmont. I want to see her in a race with those long, sweeping turns. It is RA territory, but I want to see the NY fans enjoy Zenyatta out there.

Listen, New Yorkers will still be loyal and can love Rachel more. That won't change. They can "root" for the home team. But I want the Mosses to "share" Zenyatta to the Easterners. Enjoy them both. Win or lose, let Eastern residents see her. The SA attendees had so much fun with her yesterday. Felt like I was in a rock concert, screaming and jumping up and down. We all went nuts. That's our girl and cashing on her.

But sharing is caring. I want to see others "see" what us Californians love about her all this time. TV won't give it justice. She is still an enigma in a way outside Cali. Let Zennie rock out the NY crowd just once with a 2010 Eastern tour.

I love New York. I'm from L.A., but NYC is my favorite city. Been there 5x and would live in Manhattan if I could. Belmont is a nice track out in Long Island. I want the folks from the Big Apple to enjoy the Big Z. Win or lose, just have fun checking her out.

I would drive to any of my local tracks if I knew Rachel was ever getting sent to SoCal. In some ways, they are both like our kids.

Team player here. Sharing is caring. C'mon Jerry, and sent her out there! The NY crowd would erupt with applause if they were willing to swallow their regional pride and accept any horse no matter what region they represent. Enjoy them all, I tell ya!

[Horsebagger]

Don't know if this is the consensus or not, but I don't sense any "NY" affiliation to Rachel. JJ isn't a NY owner, Asmussen rarely makes it to NY outside of Saratoga, and Rachel raced at a NYRA track exactly two times.

She's a midwestern based, raced and owned horse in my opinion.

I'd go out on a limb and say NYers would react fairly similarly to either filly/mare at this point.

[GinTalking]

It may not be what people want but, after Arkansas, she'll probably go: Vanity (June 13) and Hollywood Gold Cup (July 10)


Hey, that's a fine schedule. She should have run in the HGC last year and if not there, the Pacific Classic or Goodwood. Nothing wrong with a nice easy filly race with something a little more testing in between. I don't know how strong the older male division is this year, but it has to be better than what ran yesterday, right?

[Oxfarm]

Don't know if this is the consensus or not, but I don't sense any "NY" affiliation to Rachel. JJ isn't a NY owner, Asmussen rarely makes it to NY outside of Saratoga, and Rachel raced at a NYRA track exactly two times.

She's a midwestern based, raced and owned horse in my opinion.

I'd go out on a limb and say NYers would react fairly similarly to either filly/mare at this point.


Was gonna say. And on top of that, her owner was born and raised in San Francisco, went to Cal, and lives in Healdsburg, for chrissake. You don't get much more Cali than that.

[GinTalking]

Don't know if this is the consensus or not, but I don't sense any "NY" affiliation to Rachel. JJ isn't a NY owner, Asmussen rarely makes it to NY outside of Saratoga, and Rachel raced at a NYRA track exactly two times.

She's a midwestern based, raced and owned horse in my opinion.

I'd go out on a limb and say NYers would react fairly similarly to either filly/mare at this point.


There's no NY-affiliation at all. None. Jackson isn't one of theirs. Asmussen isn't one of theirs. Put her with another owner and a NY trainer and they'd be all over her like white on rice. It's kind of amusing, I think, actually. She kind of belongs to no one which is a good thing. It puts her base less biased than if she were solely CA or NY.

That's kind of why I don't quite get the animosity because it's almost always between those two areas and Rachel doesn't fit the NY profile.

[Oxfarm]

That's kind of why I don't quite get the animosity because it's almost always between those two areas and Rachel doesn't fit the NY profile.


They hung a kid's NY license plate over her stall at Saratoga last year. :undecided:

That's about it though. I am a New Yorker and as much as I like RA, she ain't one.

[The Colonel]

It's an East-West rivalry. Not assigned to any specific state, although we take up most of the West Coast and have a big enough industry for most people to see us as the "West". :afro:

[moonwalker]

I finally found a picture of Zenyatta as a baby.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs053.snc3/14129_389248712428_685892428_4803445_7645318_n.jpg

What a cutie!

Mary MMM

[Huaka]

^ Didja get it from the Facebook page? I love how she's looking at the camera. Even as a baby. Heh.

[moonwalker]

^ Didja get it from the Facebook page? I love how she's looking at the camera. Even as a baby. Heh.


Yes, found it on a Zenyatta facebook page.

Mary MMM

[hagginwood]

I finally found a picture of Zenyatta as a baby.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs053.snc3/14129_389248712428_685892428_4803445_7645318_n.jpg

What a cutie!

Mary MMM


awww - I love baby pictures. YOu can see already how big and massive her shoulder is! Love Rachels baby picture of her galloping as well. too cute!

[PJMIII]

Neat picture. Thanks for sharing.

[Blue Jeans]

Something told me to check back at this thread; so glad I did. Z's baby pic is adorable!

Thanks, Moonwalker, for the treat.

Off topic, the forum clock is still on standard time, huh? :undecided:

[Native Diver]

How darling is this baby picture!?! Soooo cute. You know, even here, I think I see her trying to face the camera....trying to get a better face shot. "Are you getting all of my blaze in the shot? Make sure you do. One day you'll say you knew me when!" LOL :smiley:

[Huaka]

So do you think Jess Jackson will still propose that three race series he talked about earlier? I would actually have loved to have seen Zenyatta run on the grass. She's bred for it and she can stamp her greatness more if she won. Haha.

[Rick1323]

Jess's plan is one race a year for 3 years. Starting next year. She should be in shape by then.

[Native Diver]

^^^ TBC Quote of the Day^^^


:azn: :azn: :azn:

[Huaka]

Jess's plan is one race a year for 3 years. Starting next year. She should be in shape by then.


LMAO!!!! :laugh: :grin: :azn: LoL. They can have fights over who's the best mare in the paddock with babies running at their heels.

[Jinx]

Would be nice to see Zenyatta in the Whitney at Saratoga or the JCGC.

[Hermes Redux]

Would be nice to see Zenyatta in the Whitney at Saratoga or the JCGC.


One more good reason for NYRA to get rid of detention barn :evil:

[Jeff]

Saratoga is pretty much Rachel territory. The Woodward and all that.

Yesterday I found myself in the familar surroundings of the simulcast at Saratoga Raceway. Most of my usual fellow degenerates were on hand. There were quite a few others joining us to see the "girls' races."

When Rachel lost the place was quiet. A lot of people were stunned and most were disappointed.

They all stuck around to see Zenyatta's stakes. And after her performance, something happened I have seen only one other time at this fairly hard-core betting venue: People erupted in applause. Loud and sincere. Rachel fans included. (The other time this occurred was when Afleet Alex recovered from his near-fall in The Preakness.)

It was a nice moment, with people disappointed by RA's loss nevertheless applauding the excellence of Z.

Wouldn't be a bad thing to have some more of that around here, from both camps.

[Rick1323]

Nice story Jeff. The degenerates appreciate greatness. Even when they don't bet.

[Bayakoa1]

I thought everyone might like to see this photo of Zen back at the barn after the Santa Margarita - enjoy. :-)

[Native Diver]

That's a wonderful shot of her. What a mare.

[ShuveesGirl]

So.... who here thinks Zenyatta will face the boys again before the BC? If so, where and in what spot?

[weatherbird]

So.... who here thinks Zenyatta will face the boys again before the BC? If so, where and in what spot?


from the previous page of this thread:


It may not be what people want but, after Arkansas, she'll probably go: Vanity (June 13) and Hollywood Gold Cup (July 10)

[ShuveesGirl]

Thanks, weatherbird.

[ZJ]

So.... who here thinks Zenyatta will face the boys again before the BC? If so, where and in what spot?


from the previous page of this thread:


It may not be what people want but, after Arkansas, she'll probably go: Vanity (June 13) and Hollywood Gold Cup (July 10)



Not a bad schedule, but I'd love them to go in the Stephen Foster instead of the Vanity. It's not like Z couldn't handle it.

[weatherbird]

It may not be what people want but, after Arkansas, she'll probably go: Vanity (June 13) and Hollywood Gold Cup (July 10)

Not a bad schedule, but I'd love them to go in the Stephen Foster instead of the Vanity. It's not like Z couldn't handle it.

I'm sure the BC Classic is the ultimate objective and I wouldn't count out The Whitney either. there's no need to "prove something" with every start. She lives at Hollywood and packing 130 in any Grade 1 is not a free space anyway. I guess it would depend on how much importance they place in getting a race over the BC track

[ZJ]

It may not be what people want but, after Arkansas, she'll probably go: Vanity (June 13) and Hollywood Gold Cup (July 10)

Not a bad schedule, but I'd love them to go in the Stephen Foster instead of the Vanity. It's not like Z couldn't handle it.

I'm sure the BC Classic is the ultimate objective and I wouldn't count out The Whitney either. there's no need to "prove something" with every start. She lives at Hollywood and packing 130 in any Grade 1 is not a free space anyway. I guess it would depend on how much importance they place in getting a race over the BC track


This is a big part of why I mentioned the SF, it can't hurt to get a run in before the big day. And part of me is hoping Rachel might be ready by then for a meeting.

And, honestly, the Apple Blossom without Rachel should be a pretty easy race for her - why run in two restricted f/m races in a row while she is at the top of her game?

[ZJ]

102 beyer for the Z lady. I'd say for the synth that's not so bad for winning in a canter.

[SecretariatForever]

And, honestly, the Apple Blossom without Rachel should be a pretty easy race for her - why run in two restricted f/m races in a row while she is at the top of her game?


Don't forget about Bambera. She may still go. That alone is a match to anticipate.

[ZJ]

And, honestly, the Apple Blossom without Rachel should be a pretty easy race for her - why run in two restricted f/m races in a row while she is at the top of her game?


Don't forget about Bambera. She may still go. That alone is a match to anticipate.


Good point. It had slipped my mind she might run. If she's there and lives up to her South American form, Z may not have it so easy. Actually, I hope she does show up in the AB instead of the Rampart, she'll make it a lot more interesting.

[SecretariatForever]

And, honestly, the Apple Blossom without Rachel should be a pretty easy race for her - why run in two restricted f/m races in a row while she is at the top of her game?


Don't forget about Bambera. She may still go. That alone is a match to anticipate.


Good point. It had slipped my mind she might run. If she's there and lives up to her South American form, Z may not have it so easy. Actually, I hope she does show up in the AB instead of the Rampart, she'll make it a lot more interesting.


I wonder if she's more likely or less likely to come now since there's no 5 mil purse and Zenyatta is back and may be even better.

[littlelate]

I admit to my over-fanatical Zenyatta adoration, but I think Bambera is the only horse I wouldn't be mad at. I do not think she can beat Zen, but..

[JT Dancer]

Let me start with the fact that I am a huge Z fan (I travelled 1900 miles to see her start Saturday when I could have driven 30 minutes to see RA at the Fair Grounds), but since the announcement of the possible contenders, I have felt the only one who could possibly beat Z is Bambera. I don't think Bambera will win, but I think it would be a real race for Z.

[BornToWin]

One interview quoted Sheriffs as saying Zardana may go to the Apple Blossom. And Bambera will be a contender if she is invited.

The real horse race for the ages we will never see...Sea The Stars and Zenyatta. They are comparable in racing style, professionalism, and power. She would have given him a run for his money and he'd have challenged her depth.

[Roc525]

It turns out, I just can't help myself. Before I ask my question though, I feel like I once again have to state that I'm a huge fan of both Zenyatta and Rachel. That being said, from some of the most recent comments here, it sounds like you believe that Bambera is a better horse than Rachel? Yes or no? Am I wrong? Not a knock on big Z at all, but common, don't try and seriously try to compare Rachel to Bambera. The Rachel-Z arguments I can deal with, but it better end with those two only.

[Huaka]

I want to see Bambera face off against Zenyatta. Some of her race times would able to make her pretty competitive if the Apple Blossom field falls apart.

[PJMIII]

It turns out, I just can't help myself. Before I ask my question though, I feel like I once again have to state that I'm a huge fan of both Zenyatta and Rachel. That being said, from some of the most recent comments here, it sounds like you believe that Bambera is a better horse than Rachel? Yes or no? Am I wrong? Not a knock on big Z at all, but common, don't try and seriously try to compare Rachel to Bambera. The Rachel-Z arguments I can deal with, but it better end with those two only.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think people are saying that Bambera is better. I think they're just talking about her because there is still the possibility that she might be going to Oaklawn. We know Rachel isn't.

[PJMIII]

Smith reflects on Zenyatta's escape act in Santa Margarita

One day after unbeaten champion ZENYATTA (Street Cry [Ire]) deftly overcame traffic to win her comeback race in Saturday's Santa Margarita Invitational H. (G1), her regular rider Mike Smith commented on her victory.

"I thought she'd come back and run like she did, but she actually ran better than I expected," Smith said Sunday at Santa Anita's Clockers' Corner.

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/article.cgi?id=17833

[JT Dancer]

It turns out, I just can't help myself. Before I ask my question though, I feel like I once again have to state that I'm a huge fan of both Zenyatta and Rachel. That being said, from some of the most recent comments here, it sounds like you believe that Bambera is a better horse than Rachel? Yes or no? Am I wrong? Not a knock on big Z at all, but common, don't try and seriously try to compare Rachel to Bambera. The Rachel-Z arguments I can deal with, but it better end with those two only.


I said I worried about Bambera more than Rachel; I have seen what Rachel is capable of, and I believe Zenyatta would beat her. Bambera is a horse I am not as familiar with, but I respect her talent. The unknown factor with her is what worries me.

I am not saying Bambera is better than Rachel; I don't know that. But I think Zenyatta is a better horse than Rachel.

[Roc525]

So let me see if I have this right. Zardana beats Rachel, whom most agree wasn't anywhere near top form. Rachel, whom most hardcore Z fans don't think much of anyhow, now loses to Zardana first back, and now Zardana is somehow a threat to Z? How? If one doesn't think that highly of Rachel, then Zardana shouldn't be a worry at all. According to some of the logic being tossed around here. Especially with Z back on her superduper preferred surface. Yea, I know. Just can't help myself sometimes.



Edit to add this: Ok, fine. No one has made this argument yet, but since it will eventually be made by someone...I'll leave this post alone. :evil:

[carbonite]

Rachel, whom most hardcore Z fans don't think much of anyhow,

This is the sort of ham-fisted idiocy typical of those RAbids who do not understand that thinking Zenyatta is better than Rachel is not inconsistent with thinking Rachel is special. Rachel is special, even if she is no Zenyatta. But for those who imbibe Jackson's wine by the bucket as though it were magic Kool-Aid, such a view is apostate heresy and immediately makes those who admire Zenyatta's superior accomplishments into devil-worshiping non-believers.

Rachel is a champion in her own right, and one from whom one can rightfully expect much more to come.

[carbonite]

I'd have to go check, but I believe Zenyatta has a better record against older fillies.

[carbonite]

As you might recall from a discussion last year, I'm someone who believe that both maturity and weight are significant in evaluating racing ability. Not everyone agrees. It is a free world where people can see things differently.

[PJMIII]

Team Zenyatta basks in glow of big day

Compared to the euphoria displayed by more than 20,000 racing fans after Zenyatta's win in the $250,000 Santa Margarita Handicap at Santa Anita on Saturday, the scene at trainer John Shirreffs's barn at Hollywood Park on Sunday morning was much more placid.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111446.html

[Into_the_Mystic]

Rumors starting to fly that Zenyatta is injured.... Hope they are unfounded, but I did notice Mike Smith looking at her front leg after he pulled her up after the race... Anyone else see that?

[JT Dancer]

Rumors starting to fly that Zenyatta is injured.... Hope they are unfounded, but I did notice Mike Smith looking at her front leg after he pulled her up after the race... Anyone else see that?


Where are the rumors flying? Are they coming from people who actually have seen her after the race at Santa Anita or Hollywood, or is it just the internet forums?

[carbonite]

As you might recall from a discussion last year, I'm someone who believe that both maturity and weight are significant in evaluating racing ability. Not everyone agrees. It is a free world where people can see things differently.


Being older doesn't automatically make a horse a better horse, however.

Exactly. But taken as a group, older horses are tougher to beat than younger ones. That's why races are written the way they are.

[SecretariatForever]

Rumors starting to fly that Zenyatta is injured.... Hope they are unfounded, but I did notice Mike Smith looking at her front leg after he pulled her up after the race... Anyone else see that?


I hate when people do this.

Where is your source?


I did happen to see this video on youtube though where she seems to be walking a little different after the race. Didn't think anything of it though cause she looked fine in every other video. But now that injury has been brought up, guess I'll ask if anyone else agrees or if I'm just seeing things.

Zenyatta returning to the barn after the Santa Margarita (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS0XQ45UoT0#)

[carbonite]

I think all he is saying is that the rumor is out there. When you saw Smith looking down after the race yesterday, you could predict that that rumor would be out here in the next day or so. She clearly encountered traffic problems and had to alter course significantly; it's a situation that often correlates to a problem. Time will tell.

[Into_the_Mystic]

Rumors starting to fly that Zenyatta is injured.... Hope they are unfounded, but I did notice Mike Smith looking at her front leg after he pulled her up after the race... Anyone else see that?


I hate when people do this.

Where is your source?


Read it on another forum.. nothing concrete, but seems like I was not the only one that noticed Mike looking down.... Maybe (I hope) she just got a few nicks on her in the race.

Rumors are unfounded all the time and I hope this is one of them.

[Into_the_Mystic]

I think all he is saying is that the rumor is out there. When you saw Smith looking down after the race yesterday, you could predict that that rumor would be out here in the next day or so. She clearly encountered traffic problems and had to alter course significantly; it's a situation that often correlates to a problem. Time will tell.


I am a woman :smiley:

[SecretariatForever]

Rumors starting to fly that Zenyatta is injured.... Hope they are unfounded, but I did notice Mike Smith looking at her front leg after he pulled her up after the race... Anyone else see that?


I hate when people do this.

Where is your source?


Read it on another forum.. nothing concrete, but seems like I was not the only one that noticed Mike looking down.... Maybe (I hope) she just got a few nicks on her in the race.

Rumors are unfounded all the time and I hope this is one of them.


if they said that they think she is injured based off seeing mike looking down...then yes not concrete at all. Everyone saw him look down a few times. I think he was just making sure she didn't get nipped by another horse's back feet.

[susan]

I think everyone saw Mike look down ...

Had he thought anything was significant he either would have dismounted or not galloped back ..

Nothing reported yesterday, when a minor injury would have presented itself ....

She was in tight quarters and might have gotten a little scuffed up .

The person that suggested this elsewhere is not a rumor monger , but provided no details ...

Much more flew about with mysterious emails and calls about Rachel's alleged and unfounded soft tissue injury ..

Where is Woodward ??

I think this rumor is junk myself ...

[Portofogo]

The rumor is all over Twitter...I think that is where people are picking it up and passing it along.

[JT Dancer]

She looked fine heading to the testing barn, and she looked fine heading from there to her barn. She walked for an hour on Sunday; I think, and hope, this is just a rumor.

[CoronadosQuest]

There are a few people posting it on Facebook as well. I hope its not true and just a silly rumor. I hate rumors, especially ones like this.

[CoronadosQuest]

Rumors starting to fly that Zenyatta is injured.... Hope they are unfounded, but I did notice Mike Smith looking at her front leg after he pulled her up after the race... Anyone else see that?


Yea underthespires posted it on their twitter page.

Latest rumor: Zenyatta has ankle injury. Out for 4-6 months. about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific

[SecretariatForever]

let's hope it's just a rumor!

:angry: I would think before anyone on twitter or facebook would know that we would hear it first through a major news site.


Where on facebook? I checked her fan page and didn't see anything of the sort.

[CoronadosQuest]

let's hope it's just a rumor!

:angry: I would think before anyone on twitter or facebook would know that we would hear it first through a major news site.


Where on facebook? I checked her fan page and didn't see anything of the sort.


Underthespires heard it from a jockey's agent.

[Into_the_Mystic]

Rumors starting to fly that Zenyatta is injured.... Hope they are unfounded, but I did notice Mike Smith looking at her front leg after he pulled her up after the race... Anyone else see that?


Yea underthespires posted it on their twitter page.

Latest rumor: Zenyatta has ankle injury. Out for 4-6 months. about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific


If it is true.. I doubt she comes back... This will be it for her I would think.

[CoronadosQuest]

let's hope it's just a rumor!

:angry: I would think before anyone on twitter or facebook would know that we would hear it first through a major news site.


Where on facebook? I checked her fan page and didn't see anything of the sort.


http://twitter.com/underthespires

As for the facebook, it was posted on one of my FB friend's wall. Not on the Zenyatta fan page. Anyway, I hope its not true and its just some silly rumor that people threw out there to be mean.

[SecretariatForever]

let's hope it's just a rumor!

:angry: I would think before anyone on twitter or facebook would know that we would hear it first through a major news site.


Where on facebook? I checked her fan page and didn't see anything of the sort.


http://twitter.com/underthespires

As for the facebook, it was posted on one of my FB friend's wall. Not on the Zenyatta fan page. Anyway, I hope its not true and its just some silly rumor that people threw out there to be mean.


posted 2 hours ago.

Which means they heard it before then.

Don't you think drf or bloodhorse would have it up by now?

[Rick1323]

She has a funny way of moving, even while walking. I once posted a rumor I heard from what I thought was a very knowledgeable source. It turned out to be BS, lets hope this does too.

[Hermes Redux]

Is TMZ.com on the scene? Any picts?

Seriously, this is possible with any horse and rumors are half true half the time. But witness RA's "injury" in Jan, they can be dead wrong. In our 24/7 Twitter/FB/chat room/blog culture, facts get lost.

As for the reporting side, until her connections confirm one way or the other, there will be no official report. That is why it is called "reporting." You have to have an official worthy source.

Clearly, if she is injured, she is going to be retired. Really hope this is all just BS coming from the "Mike looked down. Oh, no" crowd.

On Z, it seems an ankle injury would have revealed itself to JS by the time that Moss said on to the Apple Blossom yesterday afternoon, and she is fine.

[CoronadosQuest]

Im going to say its not true because it would be on the news by now. People need to stop creating rumors like this.

[carbonite]

On Z, it seems an ankle injury would have revealed itself to JS by the time that Moss said on to the Apple Blossom yesterday afternoon, and she is fine.

Generally, you are going to want to wait 72 hours before making any sort of assessment of where you are. That gives you a chance to see what's going on as the NSAIDs wear off.

[Hermes Redux]

Im going to say its not true because it would be on the news by now. People need to stop creating rumors like this.

Under the spires via twitter and a jock agent friend are hardly worthy sources;)

[Hermes Redux]

On Z, it seems an ankle injury would have revealed itself to JS by the time that Moss said on to the Apple Blossom yesterday afternoon, and she is fine.

Generally, you are going to want to wait 72 hours before making any sort of assessment of where you are. That gives you a chance to see what's going on as the NSAIDs wear off.


Um, no Carb.. Trust me I actually own and care for my own horses. An ankle injury would often present quicker than that and IF they had any concern via Mike she would have been checked by the next morning with rads and/or ultrasound. I'm not saying something can't reveal itself later, but the NSAID's are basically worn off at 12 hours, and you'd see something the next day. And your owner probably would know you were looking for something.

[CoronadosQuest]

Im going to say its not true because it would be on the news by now. People need to stop creating rumors like this.

Under the spires via twitter and a jock agent friend are hardly worthy sources;)


Well, its been more places then just those two. Like I said, I first saw it being asked on a friends facebook wall. So I went here, saw that somebody saw it on twitter, so I looked on twitter and I found a few people commenting on underthespires twitter page. I dont know if thats where it originated.

[JT Dancer]

I just heard from the poster Ezariah, who is at Hollywood right now with Z, and she says Z "could not be better.... She is perfect." I'm going to go with the eyewitness account :smiley:

[JT Dancer]

I just heard from the poster Ezariah, who is at Hollywood right now with Z, and she says Z "could not be better.... She is perfect." I'm going to go with the eyewitness account :smiley:


Ez works for Sheriffs? Learn something new every day....


No, she's visiting HP today; she went to visit Lava Man and stopped in to visit Z.

[Blue Jeans]

I just heard from the poster Ezariah, who is at Hollywood right now with Z, and she says Z "could not be better.... She is perfect." I'm going to go with the eyewitness account :smiley:


Ez works for Sheriffs? Learn something new every day....


No, she's visiting HP today; she went to visit Lava Man and stopped in to visit Z.


JT Dancer, you just made my day with this news of Z. Thank you and EZ.

Now, how is my love .... Lava Man doing? Thanks in advance.

[DesertHeat]

I just heard from the poster Ezariah, who is at Hollywood right now with Z, and she says Z "could not be better.... She is perfect." I'm going to go with the eyewitness account :smiley:


Ez works for Sheriffs? Learn something new every day....


No, she's visiting HP today; she went to visit Lava Man and stopped in to visit Z.


JT Dancer, you just made my day with this news of Z. Thank you and EZ.

Now, how is my love .... Lava Man doing? Thanks in advance.


Lava is being trained as a track pony and was seen last week on the training track in a stock saddle - funny stuff because he looked mildly confused!

[Retrospectiv]

Im going to say its not true because it would be on the news by now. People need to stop creating rumors like this.

Under the spires via twitter and a jock agent friend are hardly worthy sources;)


I agree, but I also find it interesting that some of the major KY farms choose to follow that person.

[Hermes Redux]

Im going to say its not true because it would be on the news by now. People need to stop creating rumors like this.

Under the spires via twitter and a jock agent friend are hardly worthy sources;)


I agree, but I also find it interesting that some of the major KY farms choose to follow that person.


Probably the very farms that are about to go out of business :evil:

[carbonite]

On Z, it seems an ankle injury would have revealed itself to JS by the time that Moss said on to the Apple Blossom yesterday afternoon, and she is fine.

Generally, you are going to want to wait 72 hours before making any sort of assessment of where you are. That gives you a chance to see what's going on as the NSAIDs wear off.


Um, no Carb.. Trust me I actually own and care for my own horses. An ankle injury would often present quicker than that and IF they had any concern via Mike she would have been checked by the next morning with rads and/or ultrasound. I'm not saying something can't reveal itself later, but the NSAID's are basically worn off at 12 hours, and you'd see something the next day. And your owner probably would know you were looking for something.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that they wouldn't notice anything. Only that when you have something minor, it's often a good idea to let the NSAIDs clear before assessing what you have. That will put you in a better position of knowing what you do and do not want to say to the press.

[Retrospectiv]

Im going to say its not true because it would be on the news by now. People need to stop creating rumors like this.

Under the spires via twitter and a jock agent friend are hardly worthy sources;)


I agree, but I also find it interesting that some of the major KY farms choose to follow that person.


Probably the very farms that are about to go out of business :evil:


LOL, could very well be, but one stands a leading sire & another stands an extremely promising young sire :wink:

[JT Dancer]

JT Dancer, you just made my day with this news of Z. Thank you and EZ.
Now, how is my love .... Lava Man doing? Thanks in advance.


EZ says he is very happy and settling in to his new career as stable pony.

[Blue Jeans]

JT Dancer, you just made my day with this news of Z. Thank you and EZ.
Now, how is my love .... Lava Man doing? Thanks in advance.


EZ says he is very happy and settling in to his new career as stable pony.


Tell EZ THANKS ... and to give that fella a big hug and kiss for us! Thanks, again. :smiley:

[SecretariatForever]

I just heard from the poster Ezariah, who is at Hollywood right now with Z, and she says Z "could not be better.... She is perfect." I'm going to go with the eyewitness account :smiley:


I'm going to go with the eyewitness account too! Thanks for posting this and letting us know!

Tell her to tell Z she's one HOT topic on the TBC forum and we all love her, even the ones that don't want to admit it! :tongue: :tongue:

[Blue Jeans]

I just heard from the poster Ezariah, who is at Hollywood right now with Z, and she says Z "could not be better.... She is perfect." I'm going to go with the eyewitness account :smiley:


Ez works for Sheriffs? Learn something new every day....


No, she's visiting HP today; she went to visit Lava Man and stopped in to visit Z.


JT Dancer, you just made my day with this news of Z. Thank you and EZ.

Now, how is my love .... Lava Man doing? Thanks in advance.


Lava is being trained as a track pony and was seen last week on the training track in a stock saddle - funny stuff because he looked mildly confused!


Desertheat, I'm just now seeing your post. Thank you for posting about LM. I bet he is confused,
bless his heart. :smiley:

[personalensign79]

Great news!

I visited with LM twice in November (BC week) his people at HP are wonderful. Glad to hear he is getting a job and I hope it works out.

[PJMIII]

Saw this on drf.

Shirreffs barn wins two, loses one

Zenyatta, meanwhile, had a simple day at Hollywood Park on Sunday, being walked in the shed row.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111455.html

[Indychase]

What I find fishy about the rumor is the 'out 4-6 months'. She wouldn't be 'out' at all, she'd be retired. No way they lay her up for 4-6 months then try to bring her back -- she's not a 3 year old. So just using that verbiage makes me think the whole thing is bogus.

[Hermes Redux]

What I find fishy about the rumor is the 'out 4-6 months'. She wouldn't be 'out' at all, she'd be retired. No way they lay her up for 4-6 months then try to bring her back -- she's not a 3 year old. So just using that verbiage makes me think the whole thing is bogus.


Exactly. That and the rumor came from a jock's agent;)

[GinTalking]

If there's a problem, and I'm certainly not going to add to a rumor ... most definitely not off a tape ... but I'd look at the right front ... not the left. I think she looks the same in the tape as she did in the post parade.

[luvsgeldings]

one thing for certain, zenyatta's people will quickly and correctly do whatever is right for her - of this i have no doubt - if they say she is fine, she is fine - if they say she is happy and still loves doing her job, i believe it - these people know and adore their girl and nothing, nothing would ever sway them to do anything but what is best for her. i wish this was true for every horse in racing.

[Codysmom55]

If there's a problem, and I'm certainly not going to add to a rumor ... most definitely not off a tape ... but I'd look at the right front ... not the left. I think she looks the same in the tape as she did in the post parade.


Just read a post on another forum from someone who walked (along with a couple of hundred others) along side Z as she headed to the spit barn after the race. He saw nothing out of the ordinary, no scratches, no nicks, etc. She was just a bit wet from where the saddle had been.

[luvsgeldings]

my husband and i were among those people too - we noticed nothing amiss with her... she looked and moved like her usual grand self.

[GinTalking]

I love to watch her gallop and work ... kind of poetry in motion ... but personally I think her least attractive gait is walking. My theory about that is that he keeps a tight grip on her when she is walking; i.e., she often doesn't get to walk ... her head is almost always pulled left into toward the groom. That's why the halter is almost always askew on her face.

The only time I've seen her at a relaxed walk is when she's back at the barn cooling out. He has a bit less of a grip on her then. Steve actually lets her have her head more than her regular groom ... at least from what I've observed from all my photos of her.

[Codysmom55]

From what I've seen on the videos that show Z walking in the paddock or being saddled for a race, she is a cranked up gal and Mario pulling her to the left and to him sort of breaks her forward motion a bit, enabling him to keep her under better control. She is much more relaxed afterwards and that energy level subsides. LOL. Heavens, what a horse.

[Ezariah]

Zenyatta grazing at 11am today.
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Ezariah7/Zenyatta/ZenyattaJune15th-1a.jpg

[Ezariah]

Mario taking his girl for a mid-morning stroll.
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Ezariah7/ZenyattawalkingJune15th-1a.jpg

[luvsgeldings]

thanks so much for posting the pix! love 'em!!

[luvsgeldings]

by the way... its always so evident that mario and zenyatta love each other - we have seen mario kiss zenyatta on her nose in the paddocks at hollywood and santa anita - so sweet.

[SecretariatForever]

She looks great! Thanks for posting those!

[Hermes Redux]

Wow. Gorgeous horse and photos.

[Ezariah]

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Ezariah7/Zenyatta/ZenyattaJune15th-2a.jpg

[Ezariah]

by the way... its always so evident that mario and zenyatta love each other - we have seen mario kiss zenyatta on her nose in the paddocks at hollywood and santa anita - so sweet.


It is very evident indeed! The whole time I was there, Mario barely took his eyes off her. We talked about her, her recent race, her future, etc, but he never looked away from her for more than a minute, if that.

[Ezariah]

Wow. Gorgeous horse and photos.



She looks great! Thanks for posting those!


You're welcome SF. Thanks Hermes.

[Spahny]

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Ezariah7/Zenyatta/ZenyattaJune15th-2a.jpg


If I were a male horse I'd be a little intimidated right about now.

Hi... um... can I but you a... gulp... drink?

[Hermes Redux]

She has the ever present cotton in her ears, too.

He is doing his job well to not take his eyes off her;)

Wonder if Quality Road will be able to look away?

[Bean]

Julie, you sure can capture the beauty of a horse in all your pictures. :)

[Minersmarq]

Wonder if Quality Road will be able to look away?

Nope, he'll have Sir Mix-A-lot stuck in his head...

"I like big butts and I cannot lie....."

[Codysmom55]

Ezariah,

Thanks for sharing these superb photos. The last one just takes my breath away.

[Indychase]

Wow -- look at that chest and shoulders.

Where does she get her size from? I never thought Street Cry was all that massive. What about her dam?

[Hermes Redux]

Ez, how is LIS? Mario and everyone must be sad to see her move to KY?

[Ezariah]

Ez, how is LIS? Mario and everyone must be sad to see her move to KY?


When I got there the first time at 9:30, she was laying down in her stall. I fed her some carrots and was told she had walked the shedrow a bit that morning. John told me both she and Zenyatta would walk and graze after works were over. By the time I got back there, LIS was already back in her stall, so I didn't get any pics of her outside. I was really bummed about that cause I so wanted to have some nice, casual shots of her. I asked, but was told no certain date for her to leave the barn. They are all sad, but they're making the best of it by enjoying their remaining time with her!

[Ezariah]

Since Lava Man was mentioned in this thread, I am posting one photo of him taken this morning as he was getting his daily bath. He remains in the same stall he's always been in. Still gets treated like the King that he is and has mellowed out so much that I actually got to spend about an hour of one on one time with him today just scratching, rubbing, petting, and loving on him. That was never possible before. This was by far the most fabulous weekend of my life!
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Ezariah7/BathTimeJune15th10-1a.jpg

[Ezariah]

Julie, you sure can capture the beauty of a horse in all your pictures. :)


Thank you Bean. Sometimes luck is on my side.

[susan]

Beautiful shots and great mementos of a very special visit--thanks for sharing E ...

[moonwalker]

Wow -- look at that chest and shoulders.

Where does she get her size from? I never thought Street Cry was all that massive. What about her dam?


I'm guessing Kris S. (Z's damsire, also sire of Rock Hard Ten) and his sire, Roberto. I have a picture somewhere in a book of Roberto from the side, but this is a link to a picture of him with Lester Piggott.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/3261669/Hulton-Archive

I was fortunate to see this guy at Darby Dan when I was 10 years old. I've always thought Zenyatta favors him.

Mary MMM

[Jumron]

Wow. Gorgeous horse and photos.



She looks great! Thanks for posting those!


You're welcome SF. Thanks Hermes.
Great photos as usual, Julie. Are you still planning to be at Oaklawn for the AB even without Rachel being there?

[carbonite]

Mario taking his girl for a mid-morning stroll.
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Ezariah7/ZenyattawalkingJune15th-1a.jpg

Lovely shot.

[Ezariah]

Great photos as usual, Julie. Are you still planning to be at Oaklawn for the AB even without Rachel being there?


Thanks Jumron, and thanks to Carbonite as well.

Although I'd love to see Oaklawn, I am going to wait and see(hope) that they meet up sometime before the BC, and then I'll go to that race. I'd really like it if it was at Belmont since I haven't been there since '06. However, I'm thinking Zenyatta will race at Churchill prior to the BC, so perhaps they'll meet there.

[Noble]

Since Lava Man was mentioned in this thread, I am posting one photo of him taken this morning as he was getting his daily bath. He remains in the same stall he's always been in. Still gets treated like the King that he is and has mellowed out so much that I actually got to spend about an hour of one on one time with him today just scratching, rubbing, petting, and loving on him. That was never possible before. This was by far the most fabulous weekend of my life! Same here. My most fun since the BC, perhaps just as exciting for the overall day. I practically lost my voice last Saturday. Felt like a rock concert with the difference I was also getting PAID at the betting windows to have that much fun.

All the anticipation for March 13th, and it paid off. Thanks for the pix! Love the dapples on Z and the update on one of my other favs, Lava Man.

I guess the next big day for me to attend is Santa Anita Derby day. But March 13th, 2010 will go down as one of my favorite days in horse racing. I predicted that day was either going to be really good or really bad, and thank goodness it turned out the former.

Still buzzing about Zennie after two days. She really is the greatest racehorse I have seen in MY lifetime and in person.

[Hermes Redux]

I bet Z is going to CD sooner than some think. Or are they talking Foster, Ez?

I think she'll go to La Troienne, not Apple Blossom (I don't know why I keep at this as I'm sure the Mosses want to help out Cella and the fans that made plans to be at OP on April 9 at this point.) I just think JS will want more time for her.

Z will go to AB or LT, and then to Vanity, then to HWGC.

[Ezariah]

I know the Mosses would like to do right by the fans who have made plans to be at the AP, so I really think they'll try to make the AB. I have not caught up on all the news from the weekend, so not sure of Rachel's status and whether she is likely for the La Troienne or not. If it looks like she is a go and her fitness has improved, they could alter course and head to Churchill. I think they'll wait though.

Nothing would make me happier than to see Miss Z in the Gold Cup this year. Oh wait, yes there is. Seeing Zenyatta in the GC, with Lava Man leading the post parade. That would be another great day for me.




I bet Z is going to CD sooner than some think. Or are they talking Foster, Ez?

I think she'll go to La Troienne, not Apple Blossom (I don't know why I keep at this as I'm sure the Mosses want to help out Cella and the fans that made plans to be at OP on April 9 at this point.) I just think JS will want more time for her.

Z will go to AB or LT, and then to Vanity, then to HWGC.

[dr john h]

thanks for the pics julie, they are beautiful. wish i had been there too!!!!!

[Huaka]

John Sherriffs uploaded a new video.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jonshfs05#p/a/u/0/9PrdLMKYi1U

She doesn't look injured to me. I love the bit with Life is Sweet. Gonna miss her!