Zenyatta News

[GinTalking]

Help me out here. Zardana beat the reining HOY. Why would her weight be so low?


Because it wasn't in a graded race and she lost decisively in her next start?

[weatherbird]

B Free should stick to reporting and leave the "weighting game" to the racing secretary.




I think Brad knows what the racing secretary plans to give as weights, at least within a distinct range. Off the record stuff, you know?

looks like Brad "at least 12 pounds" Free should just report in his reports.

[weatherbird]

129 must have been the number on the slip of paper John S. handed to the powers that be. I guess she hasn't done anything since last year's Vanity to warrant a higher impost or, generally, hasn't done enough to require the highest assignment of her career.

[Draynay]

129 ??? Really ? Ummmm... isn't 129 the same as last year ??? :azn: :azn: :azn:

That's California racing for you.....

[Curlin]

129 ??? Really ? Ummmm... isn't 129 the same as last year ??? :azn: :azn: :azn:

That's California racing for you.....


Why don't you just get the F out of this thread, moron, since you have zero to contribute. I got a better idea, let's all get into your "pet horse" threads and defile them? You are an unabashed, complete low-IQ fool, not to insult people with low IQs.

[littlelate]

Why don't you just get the F out of this thread, moron, since you have zero to contribute. I got a better idea, let's all get into your "pet horse" threads and defile them? You are an unabashed, complete low-IQ fool, not to insult people with low IQs.
Admin must like him; I've seen many a post begging for his banning (myself included) yet here he stays. I too would like him and his ill-tempered posts to be chucked into an abyss somewhere.

I'm actually very concerned abt St T, to contribute to this thread. Though I also thought she was beat leaving the turn in the BCC.

[SecretariatForever]

I'm actually very concerned abt St T, to contribute to this thread. Though I also thought she was beat leaving the turn in the BCC.


St Trinians was not in the BCC.... :undecided:

[GinTalking]

St Trinians was not in the BCC.... :undecided:


Zenyatta was though.

[Draynay]

Why don't you just get the F out of this thread, moron, since you have zero to contribute. I got a better idea, let's all get into your "pet horse" threads and defile them? You are an unabashed, complete low-IQ fool, not to insult people with low IQs.


You're all class I see... :wink:

[Hermes Redux]

she'll get 130. It needs to be the lowest number possible while also representing the highest assignment of her career.


Maybe you and Brad can double team Panza next time;)
I knew she'd most likely get less as they are doing JS the favor in case she runs in more caps later in the year. They added a pound per victory this year after SA started her out at light 127 in SM in March.

If ST is training as reported, the 9 lbs. might matter, who knows?

[Faith]

129 ??? Really ? Ummmm... isn't 129 the same as last year ??? :azn: :azn: :azn:

That's California racing for you.....


What? 'Cause the good ones are toting those heavy races out East?

No, they're avoiding handicaps all together and running in weight-for-age races.

[The Tin Man]

Why don't you just get the F out of this thread, moron, since you have zero to contribute. I got a better idea, let's all get into your "pet horse" threads and defile them? You are an unabashed, complete low-IQ fool, not to insult people with low IQs.


Damn MHS!! ... You always come up with REALLY good zingers ... I like you!! :wink:

Great touch adding the part about not wanting to insult other people with low IQ's by associating them with Dray Dray. :grin:

[Draynay]

Admin must like him; I've seen many a post begging for his banning (myself included) yet here he stays. I too would like him and his ill-tempered posts to be chucked into an abyss somewhere.

I'm actually very concerned abt St T, to contribute to this thread. Though I also thought she was beat leaving the turn in the BCC.


Well maybe the reason I stay is because I simply have a different opinion than yours. I do not break the rules of this forum by calling other people names like many of you. This is a forum of opinions and if everyone had the same opinion it would not be much of a forum. Some of you freak out because I simply mention that a 129 seems a bit silly when she was assigned that last year. Can anyone justify the same weight as last year ? If so how ?

[The Tin Man]

You're all class I see... :wink:


She's funny like you are Dray Baby ... :wink:

And is INFINITELY more wise than you are when it comes to horseracing ... :laugh:

[imported_admin]

She's funny like you are Dray Baby ... :wink:

And is INFINITELY more wise than you are when it comes to horseracing ... :laugh:


You know, you and some other folks don't help with your posts -- which aren't on the topic of racing but instead are 100% personal jabs at another poster.

So sign me up to being as annoyed by those posts as some of the ones you're complaining about.

[GinTalking]

This is where the IGNORE button works great! I love it and so does my blood pressure. LOL

[The Tin Man]

Can anyone justify the same weight as last year ? If so how ?

Yes ... St Trinians.

She's a damn good horse ... 2nd best female in the country as far as I'm concerned ... What do you wanna do give her 15 pounds?

Talk about silly??? GEEZ! WOW! UNREAL! :wink:

[weatherbird]

Maybe you and Brad can double team Panza next time;)


I'm just a dope spouting my opinion on a message board, not a reporter for the Daily Racing Form. Thanks for drawing an equivalency, though, I'm flattered!

[Draynay]

She's funny like you are Dray Baby ... :wink:

And is INFINITELY more wise than you are when it comes to horseracing ... :laugh:


I've been handicapping since 1969 there is nothing she can teach me but I am sure I could teach her some manners. Oh and I have a great recipe for Boeuf bourguignon that I could teach her as well !

[Hermes Redux]

I'm just a dope spouting my opinion on a message board, not a reporter for the Daily Racing Form. Thanks for drawing an equivalency, though, I'm flattered!


Your posts are more insightful than most of the writers for DRF, certainly all of the writers for the weekly trades save one;) How's that for flattery?

[The Tin Man]

You know, you and some other folks don't help with your posts -- which aren't on the topic of racing but instead are 100% personal jabs at another poster.

So sign me up to being as annoyed by those posts as some of the ones you're complaining about.


The only jabs I've made have been in response to others and always in humor ... with the exception of one poster here who seems to be able to get away with VERY personal assaults ... I had ONE semi-heated exchange ONE night with that poster ... We've had NO conflict since then. Hopefully that's a good sign.

Everything else I have ever done has been in good natured humor ...

And I DO make lots of posts with factual information and honest opinion in them too.

I do joke with Dray a lot and I believe he gets it. Don't you Dray? :wink:

[Faith]

Your posts are more insightful than most of the writers for DRF, certainly all of the writers for the weekly trades save one;) How's that for flattery?


Which one, pray tell? Most are pretty useless.

[Spahny]

You're all class I see... :wink:


And you would recognize class if it bit you in the ***?

At least you are honest about wanting to see Zenyatta destroyed. What makes me throw up in my mouth is the transparent posturing going on here from your fellow travelers of liking her but hating the connections.

It's possible on here to call Moss a coward, repeatedly, and get away with it. The man who co-founded, and most likely ran, AM Records is a weak little coward? If you can write that one from your comfy little digs in the trailer park with a clear conscience then cheers to you. You are also probably high enough on crack to believe that if you flap your arms hard enough you can fly.

Moss has done more with less in his career and he bought one of the best race horses the game has ever seen for peanuts as a yearling. Anybody with the cash could have bought Curlin and sent him to a major barn. Meanwhile they have kept Zenyatta in training, in form, happy, healthy, and thriving for 3 seasons now. Give me that kind of coward on my team.

I would like to see her in the Stephen Foster. It makes sense to me for her to get a try over the Churchill track. Since they haven't exactly been drilling her since the Apple Blossom I wonder if they might even pass on the Vanity. They may be looking a bit down the road with the goal on peaking in the fall. But any sort of attempt at reasonable speculation and discourse about Zenyatta is futile here. And even though I would have loved to see her go in the Foster I'll be damned if I'm going to side with the clanging, shrill and obtuse noises of people whose greatest responsibility in life might be to punch the clock on time for their job as head cook at the local Burger King. .

[Hermes Redux]

Which one, pray tell? Most are pretty useless.


Haskin.

[Rick1323]

We don't see enough of Spahny around here. Handicappers are so astute. As for the weight. They have left some room, hoping she will run there again this year. It really is that simple.

[Hermes Redux]

We don't see enough of Spahny around here. Handicappers are so astute. As for the weight. They have left some room, hoping she will run there again this year. It really is that simple.


They just need her to run next weekend on her bobblehead giveaway day. JS said she is going and works again tomorrow.

[Faith]

Haskin.


Yeah, I don't disagree. He's pretty solid. He writes it as he sees it, rarely caring if he rubs people the wrong way. I like that about him. He just loves racing and the people in it and it shows.

[The Tin Man]

And you would recognize class if it bit you in the ***?

At least you are honest about wanting to see Zenyatta destroyed. What makes me throw up in my mouth is the transparent posturing going on here from your fellow travelers of liking her but hating the connections.

It's possible on here to call Moss a coward, repeatedly, and get away with it. The man who co-founded, and most likely ran, AM Records is a weak little coward? If you can write that one from your comfy little digs in the trailer park with a clear conscience then cheers to you. You are also probably high enough on crack to believe that if you flap your arms hard enough you can fly.

Moss has done more with less in his career and he bought one of the best race horses the game has ever seen for peanuts as a yearling. Anybody with the cash could have bought Curlin and sent him to a major barn. Meanwhile they have kept Zenyatta in training, in form, happy, healthy, and thriving for 3 seasons now. Give me that kind of coward on my team.

I would like to see her in the Stephen Foster. It makes sense to me for her to get a try over the Churchill track. Since they haven't exactly been drilling her since the Apple Blossom I wonder if they might even pass on the Vanity. They may be looking a bit down the road with the goal on peaking in the fall. But any sort of attempt at reasonable speculation and discourse about Zenyatta is futile here. And even though I would have loved to see her go in the Foster I'll be damned if I'm going to side with the clanging, shrill and obtuse noises of people whose greatest responsibility in life might be to punch the clock on time for their job as head cook at the local Burger King. .


I love Moss and from everything I've seen and heard, he's a great guy. And the Moss' TRULY love and adore Zenyatta. I'd like a little more agressive campaign for her, but I'm totally cool with it. I, like the Moss', just love seeing her run. That's the main thing and I'm happy the brought her back this year.

Also the Moss' always say where she's running well in advance and keep to their commitments ... aside from the off-track Beldame last year and I can't say as I blame them for that. They actually TRULY love their horse and didn't want to take any chances. That's their prerogative. Were Zenyatta mine, I'd have done the same thing too.

[littlelate]

This is where the IGNORE button works great! I love it and so does my blood pressure. LOL
But when ppl quote him I can still see all that diarrhea. It makes me go =(

Sec4ever; I was indeed referring to Zen looking beat in the BCC; I wonder if I underestimate her or just fear for her win record. Anyone who says St T isn't dangerous may need to watch her one more time.

[The Tin Man]

But when ppl quote him I can still see all that diarrhea. It makes me go =(

Sec4ever; I was indeed referring to Zen looking beat in the BCC; I wonder if I underestimate her or just fear for her win record. Anyone who says St T isn't dangerous may need to watch her one more time.


She's plenty dangerous ... Anyone who's not that familiar with her ... Go to CalRacing.com and watch all 5 of her US races in there ... 4 of them are wins ... all very impressive ... 3 of them blowouts ... Her 1 loss stateside was about a 5 length loss to boys in the $750,000 Santa Anita Derby. She didn't get a very good trip, but I still think she finished up respectably.

Check out her races ... You'll certainly be impressed.

[ElPrado]

Ya know, it could be worse. We could have two owners having news conferences, teasing us by saying she might go here... no, she'll be running there...no wait.. she'll run in this race... no, not that one... you mis-heard me, I meant that one... well, maybe we'll run there... then again, I don't like the color of the flowers in the infield there, we'll run over here... naaww, I don't like the color they painted the scoreboard... maybe over in that race...|404|

[littlelate]

I very much am, hence why I'm already setting myself in case the unthinkable happens. She has the best chance to do it of any horse Zen has faced/could face.

[Faith]

The thing about Mr. Moss that separates him is the class he shows with the fans. Seriously Zenyatta's stall door (aside from race day) is wide open to all comers. He allows his crew to take her out for visitors, get right up next to her and snuggle with her, gives away all kinds of souvenirs for charity and even just to fans, and never, ever turns anyone away. I've been around a lot and I have never seen a harsh word to a fan (and some can be downright obnoxious) or see him be anything other than gracious. Same applies to his wife, Dottie and Shirreffs (who has some issues I think with the public spotlight.) Zenyatta loves it. She's smart too. I think she gets a kick out of being a celebrity.

I wish the same could be said for Mr. Jackson. He even has security follow Calvin Borel around before and after races so nobody can talk to him. With all due respect to Amy the security guard as she is paid to do a certain job, she can be quite rough and rude when all anyone really wants to do is somehow be a part of the greatness that is Rachel Alexandra even if it means just trying to get a good look at her. I heard a tale of a photographer just wandering by the Asmussen barn one random day taking casual Oklahoma backstretch pictures when she was verbally assaulted by Amy. For no apparent reason.

The class divide is as wide as the Grand Canyon here as far as I'm concerned.

[weatherbird]

As for the weight. They have left some room, hoping she will run there again this year. It really is that simple.


as quid pro quo for making another SoCal start? we'll make it 129 if you help out Del Mar or Oak Tree?
I might be missing one, but... there are no more handicaps on the SoCal calendar, at least not any race worthy of her presence.

[The Tin Man]

I very much am, hence why I'm already setting myself in case the unthinkable happens. She has the best chance to do it of any horse Zen has faced/could face.


Concerns me more than ANY other female horse in the country.

[StarGirl11]

as quid pro quo for making another SoCal start? we'll make it 129 if you help out Del Mar or Oak Tree?
I might be missing one, but... there are no more handicaps on the SoCal calendar, at least not any race worthy of her presence.


I thought the HGC and the Paccific Classic (not that I think she would ever start in the PC) were handicap races? Or maybe I am wrong.

[islandgirl45]

Yeah, I don't disagree. He's pretty solid. He writes it as he sees it, rarely caring if he rubs people the wrong way. I like that about him. He just loves racing and the people in it and it shows.


Steve Haskin also is quite a gifted writer who paints a picture of the horses and their races with his words. He has written some wonderful columns, His recent column titled "Farewell to Skip Away" is a good example. I like that he never attacks and belittle horses or their connections, in his columns, unlike some other turf writers who think it's appropriate to do so. Haskin is a class act.

[Sun Devils]

This may be Zenyatta's toughest race of 2010. If the fractions are similar to what we saw in the Hollywood Oaks, Zenyatta may be hard pressed to find the wire first if Smith does not keep her within earshot of whoever controls the pace. I haven't seen Zenyatta's works since the Apple Blossom, but it doesn't seem like she is in top form right now. If the champ goes down, it does not diminish what she has accomplished, and I hope her connections will get more aggressive with her in the second half of the year.

[islandgirl45]

This may be Zenyatta's toughest race of 2010. If the fractions are similar to what we saw in the Hollywood Oaks, Zenyatta may be hard pressed to find the wire first if Smith does not keep her within earshot of whoever controls the pace. I haven't seen Zenyatta's works since the Apple Blossom, but it doesn't seem like she is in top form right now. If the champ goes down, it does not diminish what she has accomplished, and I hope her connections will get more aggressive with her in the second half of the year.


One difference between Blind Luck and Zenyatta, even though they're both deep closers Zenyatta arguably can accelerate and close faster. But yeah, it would be better if there is some speed in the race. Also, the Hollywood Oaks was only 1-1/16 miles and the Vanity is 1-1/8, which helps.

Faith, since you have some insight into the thinking of Zen's connections, have you heard what they're thinking in regard to St Trinians? Are they confident Zenyatta is sharp enough to beat her right now?

[Faith]

This may be Zenyatta's toughest race of 2010. If the fractions are similar to what we saw in the Hollywood Oaks, Zenyatta may be hard pressed to find the wire first if Smith does not keep her within earshot of whoever controls the pace. I haven't seen Zenyatta's works since the Apple Blossom, but it doesn't seem like she is in top form right now. If the champ goes down, it does not diminish what she has accomplished, and I hope her connections will get more aggressive with her in the second half of the year.


Two things. As a major Blind Luck fan, she's still no Zenyatta. Perhaps even a little tired. She's danced a lot of dances this year and maybe it's showing?

Where do you think that Zenyatta's works since the Apple Blossom show she's not in top form? Steady, consistent, strong. She doesn't need to work holes in the wind to stay fit. If anything she's looking better than she did in the Santa Margarita three months ago.

I like St. Trinians. I think's she's all racehorse. But even at her best she's still a cut below Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra. Well, maybe a handful of the better mares. I'm not even slightly worried. Mike will have her well placed no matter the pace and she'll be fine.

[islandgirl45]

Two things. As a major Blind Luck fan, she's still no Zenyatta. Perhaps even a little tired. She's danced a lot of dances this year and maybe it's showing?

Where do you think that Zenyatta's works since the Apple Blossom show she's not in top form? Steady, consistent, strong. She doesn't need to work holes in the wind to stay fit. If anything she's looking better than she did in the Santa Margarita three months ago.

I like St. Trinians. I think's she's all racehorse. But even at her best she's still a cut below Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra. Well, maybe a handful of the better mares. I'm not even slightly worried. Mike will have her well placed no matter the pace and she'll be fine.


Watching the Oaks today, it kinda seemed like Bejarano just didn't get Blind Luck moving early enough, or maybe he tried and she just didn't quicken as fast as she needed to.

[Sun Devils]

Two things. As a major Blind Luck fan, she's still no Zenyatta. Perhaps even a little tired. She's danced a lot of dances this year and maybe it's showing?

Where do you think that Zenyatta's works since the Apple Blossom show she's not in top form? Steady, consistent, strong. She doesn't need to work holes in the wind to stay fit. If anything she's looking better than she did in the Santa Margarita three months ago.

I like St. Trinians. I think's she's all racehorse. But even at her best she's still a cut below Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra. Well, maybe a handful of the better mares. I'm not even slightly worried. Mike will have her well placed no matter the pace and she'll be fine.


Faith, it is more of a gut-feeling than anything else. I have no doubt that Zenyatta is the best horse in training, but her recent works seem more like they are keeping her fit as opposed to gearing her up for this race. I could be completely wrong about this, and I will be the first one to admit my knowledge of what is happening with her is a lot less than those who have contacts with her barn. They all have to lose at some point, and I think it may happen next Sunday. I hope I am wrong.

[Faith]

One difference between Blind Luck and Zenyatta, even though they're both deep closers Zenyatta arguably can accelerate and close faster. But yeah, it would be better if there is some speed in the race. Also, the Hollywood Oaks was only 1-1/16 miles and the Vanity is 1-1/8, which helps.

Faith, since you have some insight into the thinking of Zen's connections, have you heard what they're thinking in regard to St Trinians? Are they confident Zenyatta is sharp enough to beat her right now?


John is a guy who really doesn't get into thinking much about who shows up to face his horses. He gets 'em ready, sends 'em out and lets them run. Well, maybe except for the Breeders' Cup. I know there was some serious discussion put into how that race could/would set up considering it was her first really big test. I'm sure he's very complimentary of St. Trinians (truthfully I haven't even had the opportunity to ask him, but if I did he'd say something nice about her and move on. That's just how he is.) He's friends with Mitchell and respects his horsemanship skills and would say something complimentary if anyone asked, but I really don't think he's worried. I'm sure after her work tomorrow that question will be asked by all the media who report it, so I guess we'll all just see then. But I suspect it will be nice.

I hope to see Dottie this week. Maybe I'll ask her??

[The Tin Man]

The thing about Mr. Moss that separates him is the class he shows with the fans. Seriously Zenyatta's stall door (aside from race day) is wide open to all comers. He allows his crew to take her out for visitors, get right up next to her and snuggle with her, gives away all kinds of souvenirs for charity and even just to fans, and never, ever turns anyone away. I've been around a lot and I have never seen a harsh word to a fan (and some can be downright obnoxious) or see him be anything other than gracious. Same applies to his wife, Dottie and Shirreffs (who has some issues I think with the public spotlight.) Zenyatta loves it. She's smart too. I think she gets a kick out of being a celebrity.

I wish the same could be said for Mr. Jackson. He even has security follow Calvin Borel around before and after races so nobody can talk to him. With all due respect to Amy the security guard as she is paid to do a certain job, she can be quite rough and rude when all anyone really wants to do is somehow be a part of the greatness that is Rachel Alexandra even if it means just trying to get a good look at her. I heard a tale of a photographer just wandering by the Asmussen barn one random day taking casual Oklahoma backstretch pictures when she was verbally assaulted by Amy. For no apparent reason.

The class divide is as wide as the Grand Canyon here as far as I'm concerned.


Great post Faith ... I agree 100%. Night and day.

[Faith]

Faith, it is more of a gut-feeling than anything else. I have no doubt that Zenyatta is the best horse in training, but her recent works seem more like they are keeping her fit as opposed to gearing her up for this race. I could be completely wrong about this, and I will be the first one to admit my knowledge of what is happening with her is a lot less than those who have contacts with her barn. They all have to lose at some point, and I think it may happen next Sunday. I hope I am wrong.


You may have a point about the gearing up part, I was just curious about what made you come to that conclusion that's all. If I sounded disrespectful I didn't mean it. If we were in conversation it probably would have sounded different than it did being written. So to that she's definitely not breaking any speed records in the mornings although she keeps getting the "breezing" attached to them. My sneaking suspicion is that tomorrow will be a really good indicator of how serious they are about St. Trinians. A good mare like that may have changed their plans a little bit.

[Sun Devils]

You may have a point about the gearing up part, I was just curious about what made you come to that conclusion that's all. If I sounded disrespectful I didn't mean it. If we were in conversation it probably would have sounded different than it did being written. So to that she's definitely not breaking any speed records in the mornings although she keeps getting the "breezing" attached to them. My sneaking suspicion is that tomorrow will be a really good indicator of how serious they are about St. Trinians. A good mare like that may have changed their plans a little bit.


Disrespectful? Hardly. I like what you bring to this site (knowledge, and sources and facts to back it up.) Another reason I have this feeling (and this is going to sound crazy) is the lack of videos that JS has put on youtube lately. JS usually has a video of Zenyatta's work's, but there have not been any lately. Since you have access to his barn, and I will defer to your opinions as to how she is training, and if you hear she looks good, that really is all I need to know.

[Faith]

Disrespectful? Hardly. I like what you bring to this site (knowledge, and sources and facts to back it up.) Another reason I have this feeling (and this is going to sound crazy) is the lack of videos that JS has put on youtube lately. JS usually has a video of Zenyatta's work's, but there have not been any lately. Since you have access to his barn, and I will defer to your opinions as to how she is training, and if you hear she looks good, that really is all I need to know.


I consider myself extremely fortunate to have access to this mare. But then again, anyone who came around the Shirreffs barn would. That's just how it is there. I wish all trainers/owners were so nice.

There are at least a couple posters here who have a lot of access (way more than me) and will say the same things. Decent, kind people.

[carbonite]

With all due respect to Amy the security guard as she is paid to do a certain job, she can be quite rough and rude when all anyone really wants to do is somehow be a part of the greatness that is Rachel Alexandra even if it means just trying to get a good look at her. I heard a tale of a photographer just wandering by the Asmussen barn one random day taking casual Oklahoma backstretch pictures when she was verbally assaulted by Amy. For no apparent reason.

The class divide is as wide as the Grand Canyon here as far as I'm concerned.

I share your respect for Shirreffs, but disagree with your assessment of Amy. She has a job to do, she does it, and from what I've seen does it well. I respect how she handles that position.

[Railbird]

I share your respect for Shirreffs, but disagree with your assessment of Amy. She has a job to do, she does it, and from what I've seen does it well. I respect how she handles that position.


I agree with everything else posted re: Shirreffs and Jackson, but count me in as disagreeing about the assessment of Amy. I think in all the hoopla surrounding Curlin and then Rachel, some "urban legends" if you will have developed about the security team at Asmussen's barn breathing fire or whatnot. Amy is dead serious about her job, but if you respect that job, she will respect you. We've never had an issue with her.

[DesertHeat]

I'm heading out to see the big mare work in the morning - I want to judge for myself how she's doing and I haven't seen her in two weeks. I don't like to rely on other people's reports, because you see what you want to see. If people think she's struggling to pass her rivals, they'll see that, if they think she's just floating along, they'll see that. I want to form my own opinion during an actual workout, not a jog or gallop.

Count me in as someone who has an issue with Curlin and Rachel's security girl... I originally typed up the whole story but it's moot now. I do think that's a pretty awesome job though.

[islandgirl45]

JS usually has a video of Zenyatta's work's, but there have not been any lately.

Do you mean the ones posted on YouTube? I subscribe to his channel, jonshfs05, and new posts of any kind have been few and far between over the past year. Not all of his videos were works, either.

Or do you mean that her works are posted somewhere else?

[SecretariatForever]

I'm heading out to see the big mare work in the morning - I want to judge for myself how she's doing and I haven't seen her in two weeks. I don't like to rely on other people's reports, because you see what you want to see. If people think she's struggling to pass her rivals, they'll see that, if they think she's just floating along, they'll see that. I want to form my own opinion during an actual workout, not a jog or gallop.


Let us know!! :cheesy:

[Citation07]

The thing about Mr. Moss that separates him is the class he shows with the fans. Seriously Zenyatta's stall door (aside from race day) is wide open to all comers. He allows his crew to take her out for visitors, get right up next to her and snuggle with her, gives away all kinds of souvenirs for charity and even just to fans, and never, ever turns anyone away. I've been around a lot and I have never seen a harsh word to a fan (and some can be downright obnoxious) or see him be anything other than gracious. Same applies to his wife, Dottie and Shirreffs (who has some issues I think with the public spotlight.) Zenyatta loves it. She's smart too. I think she gets a kick out of being a celebrity.



Just out of curiosity, how would one go about setting something like that up if you didn't have a license to be on the backside? Is it even possible? I would make the drive to LA to see Zenyatta in a heartbeat; it'd make my whole summer.

And I pretty much agree with everything else you said.

One last aside: 9 pounds to St. Trinians is a big deal. She's a very classy mare and that's a pretty big break. I'm going to be sick with nerves all next weekend, but I'll be in Florence, Italy and probably won't get to see/hear anything until Sunday or Monday my time. I have faith she'll get it done, though.

[Songofthesword]

crap

now i have to listen to dray push his picks all week after that workout z just posted.

[islandgirl45]

crap

now i have to listen to dray push his picks all week after that workout z just posted.


According to what I read on Thoroughbred Racing Fans, Zenyatta worked 1:15.20 prior to the 2009 Vanity Handicap, which she won. It will be interesting to hear DesertHeat's impressions of today's workout.

[PJMIII]

Here's today's workout at Hollywood.

Zenyatta (KY) Mare 6 1:15.20 b 6/9

[PJMIII]

Zenyatta Breezes Six Furlongs in Vanity Prep

Undefeated champion Zenyatta turned in her final workout in preparation for the June 13, $250,000 Vanity Handicap (gr. I) at Hollywood Park when she breezed six furlongs in 1:15 1/5 at the California track June 7.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57395/zenyatta-breezes-six-furlongs-in-vanity-prep

[DesertHeat]

She came out of the barn bursting with dappled and did her strut the whole way to the track. She broke off behind two workmates, eyed them wide down the backstretch, took command coming off the turn, then loped to the wire. It looked like a typical race of hers. Pulling up she was dancing ears up while the two workmates huffed and puffed. Mike apologized if it was too slow while coming off the track.

[islandgirl45]

She came out of the barn bursting with dappled and did her strut the whole way to the track. She broke off behind two workmates, eyed them wide down the backstretch, took command coming off the turn, then loped to the wire. It looked like a typical race of hers. Pulling up she was dancing ears up while the two workmates huffed and puffed. Mike apologized if it was too slow while coming off the track.


Doesn't sound like Mike Smith pushed her at all. Do you get the feeling they're pretty confident?

[susan]

Very slow, but if this was an issue of supreme confidence and a simple maintenance work, then fine .

Seems a contradiction to Shirreffs' alleged worries about the complexion of a race with a small field though, but he and Smith know what they have best.

[Hermes Redux]

Seems if she came home in 36 2/5ths all is well and her workmates went too slow early for her?

[Draynay]

She has worked slow before but it seems like she hasn't been herself since running on dirt in the Apple. Looks like a huge upset in the making. :cry:

[carbonite]

I would think that that is by design. For those who haven't noticed yet, fillies running against Zenyatta tend to carve out rather leisurely paces. I think the goal has to be less about getting a quick 5f in her and more about getting her to roll past horses who have had the luxury of going slow early.

If I were looking to beat her here, I think I'd get adventurous and go beyond St. Trinians and take a long look at Miss Pleasant. She gets in feather light off two easy lead-em-around route tallies at scale, in what amount to her only two synthetic efforts. Her trainer knows how to spring these kinds of upsets, and it looks like he has been prepping her to relax with very slow fractions. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see her with a lot left to overtake in the stretch. The weight spread and pace scenario both look to give her a shot.

[ElPrado]

The only person that seems to think that is you. Hey, it isn't our fault if you can't make an upset score off of her. Pick a horse likely to lose...|622|

[Reposmoral]

Hi, I'm new to this forum.
Seems like they've been having trouble with workmates lately. I, too, was mildly concerned about the "slow" time, but DesertHeat's description of the actual work was very comforting. It sounds like Zenyatta is still healthy and happy, and only doing what she needs to do to "win", even in a work-out.

Now, if they wanted something faster, I don't know what that means. But I'm not sure if they want to blow out an older mare less than a week before her start. Especially since she has to carry weight. She has plenty of stamina, always has.

St. Trinians should be a tough mare, but Life is Sweet looked pretty tough, too. If Zenyatta gets the jump on St. Trinians I would actually worry a bit if St Trinians was breathing down her neck at the last minute. She hasn't often had to deal with horses closing on HER. I would expect Mike will make a point of riding her out to the wire if he gets to the front before St. Trinians, or else make a point of tracking her and passing her last. You would hate to see Zenyatta hit the front, immediately relax and start loping home, and get nipped at the wire by a hard-charging St. Trinians. But I'm confident that as long as Zenyatta is feeling good and nothing freakish happens, we're looking at win #17.

I will be flying down to see the Big Mare run this weekend, my first trip ever to see her run. It will be quite a treat!

[ManOTaz]

Why don't you just get the F out of this thread, moron, since you have zero to contribute. I got a better idea, let's all get into your "pet horse" threads and defile them? You are an unabashed, complete low-IQ fool, not to insult people with low IQs.


Come on...why the need to be so uncivil...

Maybe you would do better if you would just justify Zenyatta being assigned the same weight she had last year before she won the BC Classic...

Or perhaps maybe you cannot...so instead you feel the need to resort to vulgarities... :cool:

Interesting strategy.

I think 132 would be a fair weight assignment...but then what do I know...I am a Zenyatta fan in name only...and tolerated by some Zenyatta fans only when I am defending her...and her alone... :wink:

[islandgirl45]

I am a Zenyatta fan in name only

Thanks for clarifying your viewpoint.

[luvsgeldings]

desertheat... thanks so much for the zenyatta report!! i appreciate it a ton - and i agree with your comment from an earlier post - you said you like to see for yourself and make your own conclusions on how a horse is doing - i feel the same way - so i loved reading about your impressions of zen this morning - thank you! i feel so much better now!! sounds like our girl is just fine and ready to go - i cannot wait to see her again - she is just a joy to behold!!

[MonmouthGuy]

Maybe you would do better if you would just justify Zenyatta being assigned the same weight she had last year before she won the BC Classic...




That is what I don't understand. Those criticizing the weight assignment are actually paying the Big Mare a compliment by acknowledging that her achievements since last June justify a higher handicap. Those defending the weight assignment are diminishing her achievements by either implying that she is the same horse as she was last June, or, alternatively, implying that last year's weight assignment was too high.

[islandgirl45]

That is what I don't understand. Those criticizing the weight assignment are actually paying the Big Mare a compliment by acknowledging that her achievements since last June justify a higher handicap. Those defending the weight assignment are diminishing her achievements by either implying that she is the same horse as she was last June, or, alternatively, implying that last year's weight assignment was too high.


I don't criticize or defend it. It is what it is. All the cries for "more weight!" won't affect anything. Funny, I don't remember anyone calling for "more weight!" when Quality Road was assigned 124 pounds in the Met Mile. I suspect I won't hear anyone cry for "more weight!" to be added to Rachel Alexandra's 124-pound assignment if she runs in the Fleur de Lis.

As to whether Zenyatta is the same horse as last year, last year she went undefeated. In that respect, I'm fine with her being the same horse as last year. :azn:

[The Tin Man]

She has worked slow before but it seems like she hasn't been herself since running on dirt in the Apple. Looks like a huge upset in the making. :cry:


Hah Hah Hah ... How transparent Dray Baby! That was even weak for you! But a funny as hell effort nonetheless! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[ManOTaz]

Thanks for clarifying your viewpoint.


Yes, you really do know how to read sarcasm... :azn:



the classic winner has been acting like it - she hasn't lost a race yet this year - dray, how about your HOY... when is she going to start acting like it? its been nine months since she won a race - so dray, i guess the hoy needs to start acting like it and go in the foster, not another filly race. or are you going to give rachel a 'pass' if she takes on females again?


Indeed, she has smoked the field in two Grade I races.

The field in the Santa Margarita was filled with some graded stakes winners and seemed reasonable, but the field in the Apple Blossom was less so.

So, she will have won 3 Grade I in 2010 races once she wins the Vanity -- all after her victory in the Breeders Cup Classic...and beaten perhaps one Grade I winner...in the process if St. Trinians.

Am I alone in thinking that perhaps she will have exhausted the older mare/filly division after this race...

Now, St. Trinians did get a respectable 1:41.73 in the Santa Maria Handicap...at 8.5 furlongs.

Then she tried 10 furlongs and did not do too well.

Is St. Trinians a miler? I do not know...I have not seen her race record in GB before she came here.

Obviously, the fact that she was entererd in the Santa Anita handicap means that her connections think she could get the distance whether by breeding or performance.

Zenyatta in earlier races has done well at this distance...much better than this time...but that is when she has had pace to run at...with her competition trying to slow the race down...her times have not been as fast...but there has been no indication with her works that she has lost anything from her ealier impressive times...

04/09/10 1st OP M Smith 10 1 1/8 m D Apple Blossom-G1 0 4+ F Zenyatta 1:50.71
03/13/10 1st SA M Smith 7 1 1/8 m S Santa Margarita-G1 0 4+ F Zenyatta 1:48.20
10/10/09 1st SA M Smith 8 1 1/16 m S Lady's Secret-G1 0 3+ F Zenyatta 1:42.89
08/09/09 1st Dmr M Smith 8 1 1/16 m S Clement L. Hirsch-G1 0 3+ F Zenyatta 1:43.24
06/27/09 1st Hol M Smith 4 1 1/8 m S Vanity Hcp-G1 0 3+ F Zenyatta 1:48.15
05/23/09 1st Hol M Smith 8 1 1/16 m S Milady Hcp-G2 0 3+ F Zenyatta 1:42.30
10/24/08 1st SA M Smith 7 1 1/8 m S Breeders' Cup Ladies Classic-G1 0 3 F Zenyatta 1:46.85
09/27/08 1st SA M Smith 5 1 1/16 m D Lady's Secret-G1 0 3 F Zenyatta 1:40.30
08/02/08 1st Dmr M Smith 9 1 1/16 m D Clement L. Hirsch-G2 0 3+ F Zenyatta 1:41.48
07/05/08 1st Hol M Smith 5 1 1/8 m D Vanity Hcp-G1 0 3+ F Zenyatta 1:49.51
05/31/08 1st Hol M Smith 5 1 1/16 m D Milady Hcp-G2 0 3+ F Zenyatta 1:41.17
04/05/08 1st OP M Smith 8 1 1/16 m D Apple Blossom-G1 0 4+ F Zenyatta 1:42.64
01/13/08 1st SA D Flores 9 1 1/16 m S El Encino-G2 0 4 F Zenyatta 1:40.61
12/15/07 1st Hol D Flores 5 1 1/16 m D Allow 0 3+ F Zenyatta 1:40.97

I think despite the quality of St. Trinians in this race...that Zenyatta will win in a walk...

She is better than all distaff horses and most if not all males running.

She will eclipse Cigar's much of which was age restricted...

And, hopefully this 17th win...to beat Cigar's streak...though his was against open/unrestricted company as a 4 year old...will close the book on her competition in the distaff division..and set up a race in Saratoga in either the Woodward or the Whitney...against males...

Frankly, I know they would like her to compete in the Zenyatta, but really the Goodwood would likely be more in line with her demonstrated abilities.

I know I am going to be criticized for this...but I hope they make the rest of her year...her last three races...an homage to her greatness by showing just how darn good she his by racing her against the best horses around...not just the best fillies and mares.



That is what I don't understand. Those criticizing the weight assignment are actually paying the Big Mare a compliment by acknowledging that her achievements since last June justify a higher handicap. Those defending the weight assignment are diminishing her achievements by either implying that she is the same horse as she was last June, or, alternatively, implying that last year's weight assignment was too high.


Right. Even if you go by her record this year alone she has easily won two prior Grade I races at 9 furlongs.

Is the fact that St. Trinians won a Grade I earlier this year before being soundly defeated in her next race the reason for the lower assignment...I cannot imagine that to be the case.

[luvsgeldings]

reposmoral... man oh man you said it - i have always felt the same way!!! you said exactly what has always been on my mind - my one big fear for zen - we know she will mow down anyone in front of her, but i worry about some horse behind her, getting the last jump to the wire - i always hope mike will keep his eye out for another closer stalking behind zen - - - like touch gold did to silver charm in the belmont, mccarron was smart to keep touch gold away and outside of charm - charm never had a chance to fight off touch gold - i worry about some horse doing this to zen - she can only run down who she see's in front - and we all know she never wins by a huge margin - zen likes to beat her competition, but she takes mercy on them and never beats them by too much - egads, mike.... please remember touch gold!!

[Citation07]

Hi, I'm new to this forum.
Seems like they've been having trouble with workmates lately. I, too, was mildly concerned about the "slow" time, but DesertHeat's description of the actual work was very comforting. It sounds like Zenyatta is still healthy and happy, and only doing what she needs to do to "win", even in a work-out.

Now, if they wanted something faster, I don't know what that means. But I'm not sure if they want to blow out an older mare less than a week before her start. Especially since she has to carry weight. She has plenty of stamina, always has.

St. Trinians should be a tough mare, but Life is Sweet looked pretty tough, too. If Zenyatta gets the jump on St. Trinians I would actually worry a bit if St Trinians was breathing down her neck at the last minute. She hasn't often had to deal with horses closing on HER. I would expect Mike will make a point of riding her out to the wire if he gets to the front before St. Trinians, or else make a point of tracking her and passing her last. You would hate to see Zenyatta hit the front, immediately relax and start loping home, and get nipped at the wire by a hard-charging St. Trinians. But I'm confident that as long as Zenyatta is feeling good and nothing freakish happens, we're looking at win #17.

I will be flying down to see the Big Mare run this weekend, my first trip ever to see her run. It will be quite a treat!


Welcome to the board and have fun watching her. It's pretty awesome!

[carbonite]

Well maybe the reason I stay is because I simply have a different opinion than yours. I do not break the rules of this forum by calling other people names like many of you. This is a forum of opinions and if everyone had the same opinion it would not be much of a forum. Some of you freak out because I simply mention that a 129 seems a bit silly when she was assigned that last year. Can anyone justify the same weight as last year ? If so how ?


When I weighted the field in a conversation with some others, this is what I came up with, which is pretty much in line with what was assigned:


Zenyatta 129
St. Trinians 120
Zardana 118
Wynning Ride 114
Dance To My Tune 113
Third Dawn 115
Will O Way 110
Made For Magic 115
Miss Pleasant 111
Cherryblossommiss 113
Miss Silver Brook 111


The defection of Rachel Alexandra reduced the Apple Blossom to a level weight race, but in the start before that Zenyatta gave 15 pounds to Dance My Tune and beat her a little more than length; this impost moves the winner up two pounds from that while increasing the spread by a pound.

The most intriguing upset potential I see here is Miss Pleasant, who is largely unproven and untested. Off that, I'd have to weighted her low, but she still draws light after two winning routes on synthetic, leading all the way under weight. This looks to be a very slow paced race, and her training
indicates that they hope to have her relax with that; if she makes the front easily under light weight, she might very well have something left late.

The only real quarrel I see with the weights might be from Will O Way--I don't really see anything to justify the 114 there. I'm also not real sure that I understand what the complaint is about Zenyatta's weight--it's hard to see 129 as anything other than a high impost, and its two pounds more than her previous highweight assignment this year and six pounds up off her most recent race. You don't usually go back twelve months to base your assignment on, do you? Even if you did, last year she gave 13 pounds to Dawn After Dawn; this year, she's giving 9 to St. Trinian's, who has certainly done more. What weights would you assign and why?

What do you think of the Stephen Foster weights? It's only an exercise since they both just ran, but since they were nominated both Quality Road and Musket Man need to be weighted. In the Met Mile, Quality Road gave 7 pounds to the runner up (124 to 117); off that race, the handicapper adds three pounds to the winner and one to the runner-up, assigning Quality Road only 127 and making the spread the same 9 pounds that Zenyatta gives St. Trinians. Bullsbay and Macho Again both get in at 116, which is one pound less than both carried in the race last year. Would you weight them higher or lower than that?


Is the fact that St. Trinians won a Grade I earlier this year before being soundly defeated in her next race the reason for the lower assignment...I cannot imagine that to be the case.

Can you rephrase your question? As it is written, I don't understand what you are asking.

[luvsgeldings]

reposmoral... one more thing - make sure you are in the paddock before zen's race - you have to be there to watch her prance and pose - its a hoot - she is so much fun - and also, welcome to the forum! i would love to read your comments next week after you have seen zenyatta in person - i am so happy you are going to see her - enjoy the whole zenyatta experience!!!

[ManOTaz]

reposmoral... man oh man you said it - i have always felt the same way!!! you said exactly what has always been on my mind - my one big fear for zen - we know she will mow down anyone in front of her, but i worry about some horse behind her, getting the last jump to the wire - i always hope mike will keep his eye out for another closer stalking behind zen - - - like touch gold did to silver charm in the belmont, mccarron was smart to keep touch gold away and outside of charm - charm never had a chance to fight off touch gold - i worry about some horse doing this to zen - she can only run down who she see's in front - and we all know she never wins by a huge margin - zen likes to beat her competition, but she takes mercy on them and never beats them by too much - egads, mike.... please remember touch gold!!


If Touch Gold had not slipped coming out of the gate in the Preakness...he would have won it...and ended the TC possibility then and there... :azn:

And I do not believe there has been any Touch Gold type horse to face Zenyatta yet...

No one that I have seen who can catch her from behind...

I think the only way to beat her is on the front end of a fast pace...which means I think there is very little way to beat her...

I do not think QR or RT can do it...at any distance from 8.5 furlongs to 12 furlongs...

[Draynay]

Based on her works being so slow maybe a 2nd or 3rd wouldn't be so bad. The main thing is to be ready in November for the Classic. She will have plenty of time to regain form. It seems her last dirt race took more out of her then they expected. :grin:

[carbonite]

She has worked slow before but it seems like she hasn't been herself since running on dirt in the Apple. Looks like a huge upset in the making. :cry:



Based on her works being so slow maybe a 2nd or 3rd wouldn't be so bad. The main thing is to be ready in November for the Classic. She will have plenty of time to regain form. It seems her last dirt race took more out of her then they expected. :grin:

I think that that first smiley was supposed to look like this:
http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/images/smilies/tears.gif

[DesertHeat]

No one was thrilled with the final time but what I loved about the workout was that it was so Zenyatta - her head cocked to the left eyeing her rivals - I've got you any time I want you - then she swoops, passes, and the ears come up - yay! I did it!!

[ManOTaz]

I think that that first smiley was supposed to look like this:
http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/images/smilies/tears.gif


:azn:

[islandgirl45]

I think that that first smiley was supposed to look like this:
http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/images/smilies/tears.gif


That is precious. Where did you find an emoticon like that?

[islandgirl45]

No one was thrilled with the final time but what I loved about the workout was that it was so Zenyatta - her head cocked to the left eyeing her rivals - I've got you any time I want you - then she swoops, passes, and the ears come up - yay! I did it!!


Did her connections make any comments after the workout? Bloodhorse only reported the figure in a lead paragraph, then rehashed the "going for 17 in Vanity" stuff. I don't see anything about the work on DRF yet.

[Reposmoral]

Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, I will definitely try to get to the paddock! I plan on taking lots of photos and video.

I've been riding horses--hunter/jumper, trail riding, gaited horses--since I was a kid, and have been a horse owner for many years. Been following racing for the past 4 years, since it's the only horse sport that gets any kind of regular press coverage. So, as someone who just appreciates a good horse when she sees one... Zenyatta is freaking awesome. Her conformation, her size, her beauty, her personality, her dancing and strutting, her giant stride, her win record, everything. I have a hard time finding words to describe her. She is like the Platonic form of Racehorse.

When I heard she was running in the Vanity, while I was a little disappointed (she could easily win more challenging races), I was also a little excited, because I could finally have the chance to go see her in person. I live on the west coast, so it's a relatively simple trip to make. I've been too busy to have done it before, and I managed to convince my father that the best birthday gift of all would be in the form of some frequent flyer miles for a round-trip ticket to LAX and back :wink:

[The Tin Man]

Based on her works being so slow maybe a 2nd or 3rd wouldn't be so bad. The main thing is to be ready in November for the Classic. She will have plenty of time to regain form. It seems her last dirt race took more out of her then they expected. :grin:


HaHaHaHaHa ... Dray! You're hilarious! Even funnier than usual today! Keep up the good work! 2nd or 3rd would be OK??? That's CLASSIC!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[littlelate]

Come on...why the need to be so uncivil...
The language will get fouler and the direct attacks more personal until this $**+head leaves or gets banned. No one likes him, we've all made this agonizingly clear, and the ignore feature is next to useless as he is quoted, so we still have to see his nasty drivel.

Slow works + St T and I'm seriously preparing myself for a less than favourable outcome for Team Z. (inb4 daynay's nasty, tasteless, bitter, hateful comments about how that's good because "she will lose lololololol...")

[carbonite]

It's always good to be prepared. And it's especially good to be aware that what makes racing enjoyable is that multiple outcomes are possible. If you a poster is too obnoxious you can ignore him or go away. He won't. The more you tell him that he irritates you, the more you motivate him to continue. Unless you think he believes what he posts. But then you wouldn't be irritated.

[Sun Devils]

The language will get fouler and the direct attacks more personal until this $**+head leaves or gets banned. No one likes him, we've all made this agonizingly clear, and the ignore feature is next to useless as he is quoted, so we still have to see his nasty drivel.

Slow works + St T and I'm seriously preparing myself for a less than favourable outcome for Team Z. (inb4 daynay's nasty, tasteless, bitter, hateful comments about how that's good because "she will lose lololololol...")


Google draynay and you will see some of the forums that have banned him. It is only a matter of time before he becomes unglued and he will have to find another site to frequent.

[forgotten]

Dray is obvioulsy unaware that work times mean nothing as a rule. Every horse trains different and is trained differently depending on the objective. It would take forever to explain here and still some would argue. Her work times don't mean a thing. St T is an obvious threat and a very good horse, but there could be a longshot run a career race on any given day. The one thing Z has going for her is she does not know how to lose. Even in the morning, they set her up to run another horse down.

She could have her streak ended, but I really hope not. On the other hand, its kinda like getting a scratch in a new car....if it has to happen, you enjoy the car much more once its over with although its painful when it first happens. Even if she did get beat, she will still probably be one of the greatest race mares in modern history and a lock for HOF the first year she is eligible.

[Sheepish]

On the other hand, its kinda like getting a scratch in a new car....if it has to happen, you enjoy the car much more once its over with although its painful when it first happens. Even if she did get beat, she will still probably be one of the greatest race mares in modern history and a lock for HOF the first year she is eligible.


This.

To me, too much hoopla is put into being undefeated. I like a horse to not win their maiden first time out of that reason. A streak is bad enough, but undefeated is just unnecessary icing on the best cake ever.

[ManOTaz]

It's always good to be prepared. And it's especially good to be aware that what makes racing enjoyable is that multiple outcomes are possible. If you a poster is too obnoxious you can ignore him or go away. He won't. The more you tell him that he irritates you, the more you motivate him to continue. Unless you think he believes what he posts. But then you wouldn't be irritated.


Egg-zactly... :police:

[Draynay]

Dray is obvioulsy unaware that work times mean nothing as a rule. Every horse trains different and is trained differently depending on the objective. It would take forever to explain here and still some would argue. Her work times don't mean a thing. St T is an obvious threat and a very good horse, but there could be a longshot run a career race on any given day. The one thing Z has going for her is she does not know how to lose. Even in the morning, they set her up to run another horse down.

She could have her streak ended, but I really hope not. On the other hand, its kinda like getting a scratch in a new car....if it has to happen, you enjoy the car much more once its over with although its painful when it first happens. Even if she did get beat, she will still probably be one of the greatest race mares in modern history and a lock for HOF the first year she is eligible.


I would place Zenyatta right behind Azeri on the list.

[The Tin Man]

One thing I'm really enjoying about The Vanity is that it seems most everyone realizes how good St Trinians is ... So I'm expecting that if Zenyatta vanquishes her next Sunday ... Maybe ... Just maybe ... Some of the naysayers will give her an ounce of credit for a job well done ...

St Trinians is a damn good horse and IF Zenyatta wins easily ... It won't mean St Trinians was overrated ... It will mean Zenyatta is just that good! :wink:

[dr john h]

i will be down there to watch her on sunday too. i have seen her race in person in both BC's and while of course i wanted her to win both of them, i wasn't totally confident that she could. however i knew i would be happy just to see her do the best she can and that is the way i am trying to look at her races this year too. it's always a thrill for me to just see her, whether she is galloping in the morning, schooling in the paddock or racing.

[SecretariatForever]

Why is everyone so concerned with the time? Zenyatta almost never works "fast" the only times I've really read of her working fast is her more serious works before a "big" race. With DH's description of the work it seems pretty Z like to me. She's still all dappled, dancing, happy, and ears pricked. When you start to see her look unhappy, dull coat, and not dancing...then be worried. :wink: There is absolutely no reason to make her work fast and push her in her in her works when she's as fit as a racehorse can be and this race isn't a big race like the BC or something. Honestly, I think the ones saying she's not the same, blah blah are the only Rachel or only Quality Road fans who are just overlooking and trying to find something to say bad because Rachel has lost her two races this year or they feel Zenyatta is a threat to QR.

I just find it funny that so many people will complain about trainers/jocks/exercise riders who make the horse work lights out in a work out and when a trainer like Shirreffs just lets a horse as fit and good as Zenyatta do her own thing and lope around in a nice easy more exercise like work..it's also not a good thing. ugh guess some people will never be satisfied. How many times do we see horses work fast and then lose their next race? (eh hem Rachel) Times don't always mean everything..it's how a horse does it that matters most.

[Slewbopper]

The language will get fouler and the direct attacks more personal until this $**+head leaves or gets banned. No one likes him, we've all made this agonizingly clear, and the ignore feature is next to useless as he is quoted, so we still have to see his nasty drivel.

Slow works + St T and I'm seriously preparing myself for a less than favourable outcome for Team Z. (inb4 daynay's nasty, tasteless, bitter, hateful comments about how that's good because "she will lose lololololol...")


Get the stick out of your adze. At least Negative Ninny had something to say about horse racing.

[SecretariatForever]

One thing I'm really enjoying about The Vanity is that it seems most everyone realizes how good St Trinians is ... So I'm expecting that if Zenyatta vanquishes her next Sunday ... Maybe ... Just maybe ... Some of the naysayers will give her an ounce of credit for a job well done ...


No, they won't. They'll find something to nit pick.

[MonmouthGuy]

Google draynay and you will see some of the forums that have banned him. It is only a matter of time before he becomes unglued and he will have to find another site to frequent.


Aren't you the eunuch who, completely unprovoked, called Quality Road a nag on the Met Mile thread less than a minute after they hit the wire?

[forgotten]

What is with the preoccupation with balls on this forum?

[Draynay]

No, they won't. They'll find something to nit pick.


Until she wins a race at Belmont, Saratoga, Gulfstream, or Churchill she is little more then a regional poly champion. IMO

[SecretariatForever]

Until she wins a race at Belmont, Saratoga, Gulfstream, or Churchill she is little more then a regional poly champion. IMO


Didn't know it was the track that made a horse good or bad...thought it was the competition that really mattered.

hmph. I'll never understand. I mean Oaklawn is a dirt surface right? So why does it have to be Churchill, Belmont, GS, or Saratoga?

[Sun Devils]

Until she wins a race at Belmont, Saratoga, Gulfstream, or Churchill she is little more then a regional poly champion. IMO


If she ran on silicone she would be your favorite horse in training.

[hagginwood]

Until she wins a race at Belmont, Saratoga, Gulfstream, or Churchill she is little more then a regional poly champion. IMO


I suppose that list will keep shrinking were she to win at any other of those tracks, as you conveniently left out Oaklawn. Maybe if your horses are only running at those tracks they are marginalized as regional as well?

[TK]

It's kind of interesting to me reading all the comments about St. Trinians. It seems like many think she is a major threat to Zenyatta's streak. I don't know who she beat in England but it seems like she is receiving a lot of accolades for winning a grade 2 and lesser races on the west coast. Remember, when Zenyatta wins races many say that she just beats up on the same old west coast filly/mares all the time. At least she has a gaggle of grade 1 wins to show for it, not to mention her Apple Blossom and BC wins. It's not like Smith is going to let St. Trinians get away from Zenyatta either. It's 1 1/8 miles and Z will most likely be tracking just a couple lengths at most behind ST for most of the race. In my opinion, the only thing that gets Z beat this weekend is if she is sick. No knock on ST. I just don't see anybody beating Z right now.

[The Tin Man]

If she ran on silicone she would be your favorite horse in training.


Or maybe just got implants herself!! :wink:

Good one Sun Devils!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Railbird]

She ran in a Grade I race, outside of California, on the dirt. She had committed to the race well over a month in advance. If nobody showed up to challenge her, that's not on her or her connections.

[Draynay]

Didn't know it was the track that made a horse good or bad...thought it was the competition that really mattered.

hmph. I'll never understand. I mean Oaklawn is a dirt surface right? So why does it have to be Churchill, Belmont, GS, or Saratoga?



Maybe you can start a list of all the greats that never won a race at one of those tracks...... I'll wait.

[Draynay]

She ran in a Grade I race, outside of California, on the dirt. She had committed to the race well over a month in advance. If nobody showed up to challenge her, that's not on her or her connections.


What ? Is she STILL not ready to face open company ??? Unreal. Race the best ! If she is all that head to the Whitney....lol.... never happen

[SecretariatForever]

Maybe you can start a list of all the greats that never won a race at one of those tracks...... I'll wait.


Didn't know in order to be great you have to do exactly what all the other greats did.


As for your scenerio, I guess all the horses from overseas that never came over here aren't great?


P.S The year isn't over yet. She's got time to follow your rules of greatness. *rolls eyes*

[Draynay]

Didn't know in order to be great you have to do exactly what all the other greats did.


As for your scenerio, I guess all the horses from overseas that never came over here aren't great?


P.S The year isn't over yet. She's got time to follow your rules of greatness. *rolls eyes*


I promise you she will never ever run on dirt again. Two more poly wins and Zenyatta is done. IMO :cool:

[Railbird]

She's never running on dirt again? Did they move the Breeders' Cup back to Santa Anita this year and I missed it?

She'll be there. But I'm sure the Zenyatta naysayers will still find something negative to say about her, even IF she wins that. Maybe they'll want Mike to sit on her backwards or something.

[SecretariatForever]

She's never running on dirt again? Did they move the Breeders' Cup back to Santa Anita this year and I missed it?

She'll be there. But I'm sure the Zenyatta naysayers will still find something negative to say about her, even IF she wins that. Maybe they'll want Mike to sit on her backwards or something.



Even if Mike did sit on her backwards, she would still get no credit it would be to his credit for staying on like that. :azn:

[The Tin Man]

She's never running on dirt again? Did they move the Breeders' Cup back to Santa Anita this year and I missed it?

She'll be there. But I'm sure the Zenyatta naysayers will still find something negative to say about her, even IF she wins that. Maybe they'll want Mike to sit on her backwards or something.


They'll come up with excuses of some sort ... NO doubt. Which is perfectly fine at this point. If they don't want to appreciate one of the greats and just watch her come and go. It's THEIR loss, not yours or mine. :wink:

[Draynay]

She's never running on dirt again? Did they move the Breeders' Cup back to Santa Anita this year and I missed it?

She'll be there. But I'm sure the Zenyatta naysayers will still find something negative to say about her, even IF she wins that. Maybe they'll want Mike to sit on her backwards or something.


Nope...100% wrong. IF She went to Churchill and beat the best males on dirt you wouldn't hear a negative word from anyone in the world. Everyone would be shocked and grateful to see such a performance and accomplishment.

But listen.... please listen... if she could do it don't you think she would have done it by now ? You must know by now she wasn't the same horse coming out of the Apple. She will not race again on dirt.

[susan]

It's kind of interesting to me reading all the comments about St. Trinians. It seems like many think she is a major threat to Zenyatta's streak. I don't know who she beat in England but it seems like she is receiving a lot of accolades for winning a grade 2 and lesser races on the west coast. Remember, when Zenyatta wins races many say that she just beats up on the same old west coast filly/mares all the time. At least she has a gaggle of grade 1 wins to show for it, not to mention her Apple Blossom and BC wins. It's not like Smith is going to let St. Trinians get away from Zenyatta either. It's 1 1/8 miles and Z will most likely be tracking just a couple lengths at most behind ST for most of the race. In my opinion, the only thing that gets Z beat this weekend is if she is sick. No knock on ST. I just don't see anybody beating Z right now.


Same old same old .

Before the race there are the so called threatening challengers , after the race they weren't any good because they were beaten ...

We heard this before the BCC, and we will hear it ad nauseum .

[PJMIII]

She has worked slow before but it seems like she hasn't been herself since running on dirt in the Apple. Looks like a huge upset in the making. :cry:

I don't know about that. As I remember it she did pretty well after she ran at Oaklawn in 2008.

[MonmouthGuy]

Same old same old .

Before the race there are the so called threatening challengers , after the race they weren't any good because they were beaten ...

We heard this before the BCC, and we will hear it ad nauseum .


I'm confused.

It St. Trinians a top G1 mare or not?

Should I be interested in the race, or is it essentially a walkover.

[SecretariatForever]

But listen.... please listen... if she could do it don't you think she would have done it by now ?


Considering the past two years the BC has been in Cali...how could she have done it already?



You must know by now she wasn't the same horse coming out of the Apple. She will not race again on dirt.


Where's your proof?

[Railbird]

Nope...100% wrong. IF She went to Churchill and beat the best males on dirt you wouldn't hear a negative word from anyone in the world. Everyone would be shocked and grateful to see such a performance and accomplishment.

But listen.... please listen... if she could do it don't you think she would have done it by now ? You must know by now she wasn't the same horse coming out of the Apple. She will not race again on dirt.


No, I don't know that. Because people who actually know what they're talking about - some friends of mine in the business, as well as trusted members of this board - have shared that everything is just fine and Zenyatta is in great shape. So you're the only one who seems to think something is up.

I'm disappointed that Zenyatta is running in the Vanity rather than the Foster this weekend. I'll be more disappointed if she doesn't swing for the fences this summer. But I have absolutely no doubt that she'll show up at the Breeders' Cup and shut everyone up about her 'ducking.'



They'll come up with excuses of some sort ... NO doubt. Which is perfectly fine at this point. If they don't want to appreciate one of the greats and just watch her come and go. It's THEIR loss, not yours or mine. :wink:


You're absolutely correct, Tin.

[ElPrado]

Here, I have one for you:|426|

[susan]

I'm confused.

It St. Trinians a top G1 mare or not?

Should I be interested in the race, or is it essentially a walkover.


That is your call---and keep the story the same pre race and post race .

[Railbird]

Actually, speaking of silver linings, how about we actually do some good while we're having this stupid argument?

Draynay, if Zenyatta never runs on dirt again, I'll donate to the equine charity of your choice. If however she does run on a dirt track, you donate to one of my choice.

I'm going to win this bet, so I pick Old Friends.

[susan]

Actually, speaking of silver linings, how about we actually do some good while we're having this stupid argument?

Draynay, if Zenyatta never runs on dirt again, I'll donate to the equine charity of your choice. If however she does run on a dirt track, you donate to one of my choice.

I'm going to win this bet, so I pick Old Friends.


Great idea--and so worthwhile .

[MonmouthGuy]

That is your call---and keep the story the same pre race and post race .


I have no idea. Have never seen her race.

Was asking you.

[imported_admin]

Here, I have one for you:|426|


What's with the part of your recent posts that I bolded above?

[forgotten]

But listen.... please listen... if she could do it don't you think she would have done it by now ? You must know by now she wasn't the same horse coming out of the Apple. She will not race again on dirt.


Do they run the BC more than once a year and not tell everybody? You seem to not get the concept of picking a race and charting a path towards it. You cannot ask a horse to go all out every single start and expect to have a fresh, fit horse come November. I'm sorry that doesn't mesh with your desire for more, more more.....the fact they kept her running this year and postponed the breeding shed is just a huge bonus for those of us that love to see her run.

[susan]

I have no idea. Have never seen her race.

Was asking you.


A very nice mare with peculiar action who won 2 back in convincing fashion beating Life is Sweet in the Santa Maria.G2.

Ran unplaced in the HGC after a rough trip .

Very good horse .


I am sure YouTube or CalRacing can hook you up for the replays .

[ElPrado]

It's just a smiley.

[Draynay]

Do they run the BC more than once a year and not tell everybody? You seem to not get the concept of picking a race and charting a path towards it. You cannot ask a horse to go all out every single start and expect to have a fresh, fit horse come November. I'm sorry that doesn't mesh with your desire for more, more more.....the fact they kept her running this year and postponed the breeding shed is just a huge bonus for those of us that love to see her run.


To suggest or even think that a horse can come in have never stepped foot on the track after running nearly every race on plastic and show up and beat the very best males on dirt is just plain nuts.... ASK ANY TRAINER IN THE WORLD. Males on dirt is a different race then anything she has EVER seen and without experience running against males on dirt she would have no chance at all of winning so one can ONLY think she ain't coming. Do you honestly think she could just show up on Breeders Cup day and race males on dirt for the first time and win ???? Really ? Really ? Come on be honest.

[MonmouthGuy]

A very nice mare with peculiar action who won 2 back in convincing fashion beating Life is Sweet in the Santa Maria.G2.

Ran unplaced in the HGC after a rough trip .

Very good horse .


I am sure YouTube or CalRacing can hook you up for the replays .


Thanks, will watch Santa Maria. Did not realize she defeaed Life is Sweet.

[The Tin Man]

I have no idea. Have never seen her race.

Was asking you.


Hey Monmouth ... I just sent you a PM with detailed information on St Trinians that should get you up to speed on her ...

She's pretty impressive.

TTM

[ElPrado]

She's already beaten males. Had no trouble at all. She's already won on dirt. Same answer. Maybe you would like them to swim, or climb sand dunes next?

[The Tin Man]

Thanks, will watch Santa Maria. Did not realize she defeaed Life is Sweet.


Beat Zardana in that same race too. :wink:

[Faith]

I share your respect for Shirreffs, but disagree with your assessment of Amy. She has a job to do, she does it, and from what I've seen does it well. I respect how she handles that position.


I think I did mention that it is her job to do and sure, I respect it. I've had several conversations and even a couple drinks with her durning Curlin's time in California in 2008. I like her fine. I do think, however, she's crossed a line or two when it comes to her job. I get what she has to do and sometime she really needs to be tough, but sometimes she's tough when she really doesn't need to be. And I told her as much. She did say, though, that sometimes she just hits her limit.

I guess my issue really isn't "her" as much as it's the arrogance in the need for "her" to begin with. My thinking is if they weren't so guarded with Rachel Alexandra, and Curlin before her, people would actually back off a bit.

[Roc525]

It's just a smiley.


It doesn't show as a smiley in any of your posts. At least for me. It always shows as a set of numbers like this: |426|

I've been wondering what the numbers were about for a while now.

[Sheepish]

Wow.

[dustino140]

I doubt that would be a choke, more like chew a sunflower seed and spit?


This is why Hermes > Everybody Else

[SecretariatForever]

:laugh: :azn:

[forgotten]

To suggest or even think that a horse can come in have never stepped foot on the track after running nearly every race on plastic and show up and beat the very best males on dirt is just plain nuts.... ASK ANY TRAINER IN THE WORLD. Males on dirt is a different race then anything she has EVER seen and without experience running against males on dirt she would have no chance at all of winning so one can ONLY think she ain't coming. Do you honestly think she could just show up on Breeders Cup day and race males on dirt for the first time and win ???? Really ? Really ? Come on be honest.
She trains on dirt all the time. She's raced and won on dirt. I think they're pretty secure she can run on dirt. She ran against the best boys around and beat them. They know she can do that too. So, they are `pointing' her to that race and they will put her where she needs to run to be in peak form for the race. I have no idea what their plans after this week are for her, but I'm sure they will give careful consideration as to what is best for her and what will bring her into BC in her best form. Regardless of what you think or want.

[ElPrado]

Ok, I'll stop using that program. http://www.smileycons.com/img/emotions/135.gif Does this one work?

[Roc525]

Yep, that one works. You're now number free.

[carbonite]

Maybe you can start a list of all the greats that never won a race at one of those tracks...... I'll wait.

The first name I think of is Cougar II.

[carbonite]

Yep, that one works. You're now number free.

Could we go back to the numbers, please?

[islandgirl45]

To suggest or even think that a horse can come in have never stepped foot on the track after running nearly every race on plastic and show up and beat the very best males on dirt is just plain nuts.... ASK ANY TRAINER IN THE WORLD. Males on dirt is a different race then anything she has EVER seen and without experience running against males on dirt she would have no chance at all of winning so one can ONLY think she ain't coming. Do you honestly think she could just show up on Breeders Cup day and race males on dirt for the first time and win ???? Really ? Really ? Come on be honest.


Perhaps you weren't paying attention earlier this year when some California horses tried dirt and did just fine. In fact, the synth-to-dirt transition seems to benefit horses that experience it. Besides that, Hollywood Park's Cushion Track somewhat mimics dirt, so why would Zenyatta be hampered in any way?

You really have a sick obsession with bashing this horse. Frankly, it is a bit disturbing.

[Draynay]

The first name I think of is Cougar II.


Not exactly in the Bloodhorse top 50 is he ? :cool:

[littlelate]

Clearly, dray is simply having insecurities; a horse is more successful and better liked that he ever will be. This doesn't sit well with him. Poor fella.

If they ship her far out enough, give her time to really settle, I'm sure she'd be fine at basically any track. I doubt, very highly, that surface does anything to her. She'd probably win running over flaming pitch.

[Dusty]

Let's just hope she is healthy and happy...I am a bit concerned that she did take the flight well...and has not shown her...OOMPH lately - she may need a break..give her one after she destroys this field

[carbonite]

I didn't know he wasn't in their top 50. He probably should have been. He definitely belongs in the Hall of Fame.

[RSA]

Do you honestly think she could just show up on Breeders Cup day and race males on dirt for the first time and win ???? Really ? Really ? Come on be honest.

Yes. The transition from synthetic to dirt is much easier than the reverse. And if she loses, she loses. Nothing is absolute in this life except death. I can accept the fact she got beat - if that ever happens. I won't be a sore loser and blame the track conditions or anything else.

[ElPrado]

Unlike someone else we could mention several times.

[SecretariatForever]

horsephotos has photos up of her recent work. :smiley: Wow she looks so...body builder like!! :azn:

[WestCoast]

Just watched her school. Holy hot mama she looks good.

[SecretariatForever]

Just watched her school. Holy hot mama she looks good.


thanks! Good to hear!!

[Liztannica]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/113743.html

I am disappointed in this news...was hoping to see her head to NY.

As for the Vanity...the addition of Zardana makes for a more interesting race.

[islandgirl45]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/113743.html

I am disappointed in this news...was hoping to see her head to NY.

As for the Vanity...the addition of Zardana makes for a more interesting race.


That surprised me, too, considering its 1-1/16 miles instead of 1-1/8 miles, and it's well known Zenyatta dislikes the Del Mar track surface.
I also wonder if they're planning anything in July.

[islandgirl45]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/113743.html

I am disappointed in this news...was hoping to see her head to NY.

As for the Vanity...the addition of Zardana makes for a more interesting race.


That surprised me, too, considering its 1-1/16 miles instead of 1-1/8 miles, and it's well known Zenyatta dislikes the Del Mar track surface.
I also wonder if they're planning anything in July.

[Bozo]

What.....does dirt make her hind end sore? Sort of looks like the trainer is avoiding the dirt for some reasons that seem suspect. I thought they wanted horse of the year? Gonna just wait for the BC and hope for the best? Should have retired her..this is a waste of our time, Zenyatta's time, and Mike Smith's time.

[CoronadosQuest]

This makes me incredibly sad. The Clement? Really? I thought she hated Del Mar. *sigh*

[ezgoerbaby]

I can't read links from my phone. The Clement Hirsch is what she's being pointed to next? Am I gathering this correctly?

[islandgirl45]

What.....does dirt make her hind end sore? Sort of looks like the trainer is avoiding the dirt for some reasons that seem suspect. I thought they wanted horse of the year? Gonna just wait for the BC and hope for the best? Should have retired her..this is a waste of our time, Zenyatta's time, and Mike Smith's time.


Actually, her exercise rider said she skipped over the dirt track at Oaklawn and if you watched the race, she moved up on the front horses faster than she does in synthetic track races. Perhaps they're reluctant to ship her if she got dehydrated from the last time. Still think she'll go east before the Breeders Cup.

In that line of thought...
Faith, did you run into Dottie Shirreffs this week? Is there any news about when Zenyatta might be heading east to run (maybe July or September/October?), in light of today's DRF article saying she will be going to the Clement Hirsch Stakes at Del Mar on Aug. 7?

[TK]

That surprised me, too, considering its 1-1/16 miles instead of 1-1/8 miles, and it's well known Zenyatta dislikes the Del Mar track surface.
I also wonder if they're planning anything in July.

Yeah, this is a bit interesting. Actually she ran very well in the race itself. She ran against soft fractions and was way far back. Coming seven wide around the far turn didn't help either. Either did the short stretch run but she did finish like a freight train. I assume Smith will make amends this time and get her into the race from the time the gate opens instead of being way back.
As a huge Z fan I am happy that she is running in my back yard but this campaign is a bit of a disappointment. I do not take all of her grade 1 wins for granted like many on this board tend to do because I know how hard it is to win grade 1 races let alone pretty much any race. For credibility sake of running back east and on dirt I know many feel this is what she has to do to make a mark for herself. But please, don't tell me she is avoiding the east coast filly/mares. They're no better and most wouldn't face her if she traveled back east anyway. We saw who showed up in the Apple Blossom. Not much. As for the boys, yes I was looking forward to a race or two against them this year but it looks like we'll see an almost identical campaign as last year. If she shows up at CD for the Classic it will be all worth it for me. My money will be on her for a win, as usual.

[Curlin]

What.....does dirt make her hind end sore? Sort of looks like the trainer is avoiding the dirt for some reasons that seem suspect. I thought they wanted horse of the year? Gonna just wait for the BC and hope for the best? Should have retired her..this is a waste of our time, Zenyatta's time, and Mike Smith's time.


I don't think it's dirt-avoidance but travel-avoidance. I'm only guessing here, but perhaps she just doesn't ship well (per articles written upon her return from Oaklawn).

The latter part of your post about retiring her and it being a waste of time, well, I'm on the fence because ultimately it's the connections decision not ours as to where she's going to be raced, but I do share your disappointment. I let out a big groan when I read the DRF piece.

I don't understand, I thought the end game here was HOTY for 2010. They're not going to get it this way. So much for her running in the Del 'Cap (heaving BIG sigh here). :sad:

[CoronadosQuest]

I don't think it's dirt-avoidance but travel-avoidance. I'm only guessing here, but perhaps she just doesn't ship well (per articles written upon her return from Oaklawn).

The latter part of your post about retiring her and it being a waste of time, well, I'm on the fence because ultimately it's the connections decision not ours as to where she's going to be raced, but I do share your disappointment. I let out a big groan when I read the DRF piece.

I don't understand, I thought the end game here was HOTY for 2010. They're not going to get it this way. So much for her running in the Del 'Cap (heaving BIG sigh here). :sad:


I thought it was to get HOTY too. Yea she is currently leading the polls but give Quality Road a few more G1 wins and I can't see her beating him for the award. Such a shame. It makes no sense to me :(

[bort84]

I love me some Zenyatta, but I'm also a bit disappointed in this decision... Oh well. I guess I'll say what I did after the Vanity announcement - maybe they'll do something unexpected after the next race = )

[ezgoerbaby]

It's enough to make one just want to cry. At the very least, if you're staying in Cali, please race against the guys.

[Rick1323]

Wat a shame. There is some easy pickings at Churchill this weekend.

[ZJ]

I hope they enjoy losing HOY again.

I get that she gets dehydrated and that they might not want to ship her. But the Pacific Classic is only two weeks after the Hirsch. Why not point her there? Blah.

[forgotten]

I thought it was to get HOTY too. Yea she is currently leading the polls but give Quality Road a few more G1 wins and I can't see her beating him for the award. Such a shame. It makes no sense to me :(


If she remains undefeated and wins the Classic again, she will be HOY. Its pretty much as simple as that. Only one other horse has won back to back classics, no filly or mare has even won one before last year, the fact she raced through 4 seasons in graded company and remained undefeated, will all make her pretty much a lock for HOY. I'm guessing they don't want to beat her up too much in getting there. It will be the toughest race of her career and the fresher and sounder she is, the better she will run. It would appear her connections aren't as worried about dirt as the general public.

[MonmouthGuy]

I assume that a Hirsch "three-peat" would preclude her from racing in the Pacific Classic. Am I correct?

Why stay in California and skip the two biggest races of the summer, the Hollywood Gold Cup and Pacific Classic?

Entering a rabbit in the Vanity and then skipping the two biggest G1s of the summer in California. How sporting

It is really disingenuous for Sherriffs to state that he is skipping the Gold Cup because it comes up too close after the Vanity and then skipping the Pacific Classic because it comes up too close to the Hirsch, when he is making the decision to run in the first race.

That is the equivalent from a competitive standpoint from being earnings-eligible but skipping the Kentucky Derby because you ran in the Frederico Tessio stakes.


Doing a disservice to a great mare who could have achieved immortality.

[GinTalking]

Disappointing. No Hollywood Gold Cup. No Pacific Classic.

Can't say I'm the least bit surprised. Eh, they're only doing their great mare a disservice by taking this route. It'll be saved if she wins the Classic, but if she doesn't ... they could have done so much for her.

Zardana's travel plans, or lack thereof, worked out rather conveniently. If only Shirreffs hadn't said he was worried about their being no pace in the race and then suddenly, her stablemate's travel plans just couldn't come together. Yeah, Lord knows, it's tough finding a way to get from Los Angeles to New York ... right up there with trying get from Wilmington, NC to Butte, MT. :grin:

[TK]

If she remains undefeated and wins the Classic again, she will be HOY. Its pretty much as simple as that. Only one other horse has won back to back classics, no filly or mare has even won one before last year, the fact she raced through 4 seasons in graded company and remained undefeated, will all make her pretty much a lock for HOY. I'm guessing they don't want to beat her up too much in getting there. It will be the toughest race of her career and the fresher and sounder she is, the better she will run. It would appear her connections aren't as worried about dirt as the general public.

I think you're pretty much right on. I don't care which way they go. If she remains undefeated and wins the BCC again she will go down as an all time great. I definitely believe she will get HOY if she does it this way. Defeating all the best at CD in the Classic should seal the deal. That's a big "if" though.

[ezgoerbaby]

Huge IF. This time she will be running down some classy runners running on their preferred surface. I think she could do just about anything and this is why it's so damn disappointing that they are hiding her out in Cali. Anywhere she goes she would draw the fans in a big way. I'd like to see that.

[TK]

Disappointing. No Hollywood Gold Cup. No Pacific Classic.

Can't say I'm the least bit surprised. Eh, they're only doing their great mare a disservice by taking this route. It'll be saved if she wins the Classic, but if she doesn't ... they could have done so much for her.

Zardana's travel plans, or lack thereof, worked out rather conveniently. If only Shirreffs hadn't said he was worried about their being no pace in the race and then suddenly, her stablemate's travel plans just couldn't come together. Yeah, Lord knows, it's tough finding a way to get from Los Angeles to New York ... right up there with trying get from Wilmington, NC to Butte, MT. :grin:

These are 2 high powered owners who want to win races. I doubt Arnold Zetcher is loaning Moss Zardana as a rabbit this weekend. He'll be out to win.

[MonmouthGuy]

This isn't about 'not travelling well' or 'hiding in California', it is clearly about avoiding competition, even California competition.

[forgotten]

This isn't about 'not travelling well' or 'hiding in California', it is clearly about avoiding competition, even California competition.


They announce her races well in advance. The `competition' can travel her way too....or avoid her as the case may be.....

[Beandog]

The news makes you wonder just how deliciously ironic it would be, after all the hoopla, if her stablemate beat not only Rachel, but the big mare herself as well. :azn:

[Rick1323]

This isn't about 'not travelling well' or 'hiding in California', it is clearly about avoiding competition, even California competition.


Actually its about getting her to the BCC rested and ready for her biggest effort of the year. It was and is the plan. They really don't care what anyone thinks. They may lose HOTY again, but they will do it their way.

I wouldn't bet against her in the BCC....no matter who else shows up.

[Ruffian75]

YUCK. I really thought this whole 2010 campaign was about sharing Zenyatta with the fans, not just about the Moss' having fun with her. There are ample East Coast races for her. The Delaware Handicap is a $750,000 race, at a classic distance at a historic track. What is wrong with the DelCap? What is wrong with Saratoga?

I am sorry, I expect this stuff from Jess Jackson, not the Zenyatta camp. I think there are many on the East Coast who would love to see her run. Many folks who are reserving the title of "Greatest Horse Ever" for her, but only after they see her run in person.

Del Cap, Personal Ensign...there are worthy races.

[breezing]

This isn't about 'not travelling well' or 'hiding in California', it is clearly about avoiding competition, even California competition.

pffft, avila has opted to ship made for magic to kentucky because he doesn't want to face the big girl again (he's quoted several times, look it up). i suppose you think it's a stellar field just lining up to take on the 0-2 RA too . this nonesense has to end.

[forgotten]

Ruff,

You have to remember that California is home to Z and her connections. They give people lots of opportunity to come see her by announcing, well in advance, her race plans. Their ultimate responsibility is to keep that mare happy and sound, so if not shipping around a bunch is what does that, then more power to them. Jackson took Rachel on the road and had that mare travel all over the place. In the end, she didn't make BC and so far isn't the same horse this year. Would you like it if they did that with Z? Personally, I want to see her do what it takes, go to the BCC and silence all the whining. If it doesn't happen, I will still think they gave her her best shot.

If she dehydrates and doesn't ship all that well, this isn't the time of year to be flying her to the east coast or KY. Late in the fall, it will be far less stress on her as far as heat and humidity goes.

MGuy, both fields are pretty weak, but I think its about what you can expect given how tough both these mares are to run against when they're on their game. RA hasn't really done all that badly this year and Z has yet to throw a stinker. It may be that we all have to wait for BC to see them face any sort of stiff competition.

[SecretariatForever]

Shirreffs said Zenyatta will remain at Hollywood Park this summer, and will be based at Del Mar only briefly. Shirreffs has said in the past that Zenyatta does not train well on Del Mar's Polytrack surface, which led to speculation that Zenyatta would start on the East Coast in late summer. But Shirreffs said he has no problem running Zenyatta at Del Mar.

"I said I didn't want to train at Del Mar," he said. "There is a difference."

THIS really annoyed me. Am I the only one who thinks this makes absolutely no sense...at all!?!


Yes, Shirreffs there is a difference. See training over the track you're just training, running in a race on the track is going against other horses and taking a risk of her losing. Which considering she's on a track she doesn't really like...the risk is higher. Not just losing but injury as well. Oh, and the fact that you don't want to train over the track and then make her run on it, adds to that facts as well.

Dumb.


Didn't the Mosses say earlier in the year they wanted to ship more this year? That the whole reason for bringing her back was because she seemed to be getting even better and they wanted to give "other" fans a chance to see her? What is going on? I haven't heard any comments from them in a while, just Shirreffs. Did he duck tape their mouths and tie them up somewhere so he gets to baby Zenyatta? :evil:

[BornToWin]

Zenyatta is so good for racing in California. An icon, she is good for racing's image throughout the world.

If her races aren't enough to earn her Horse of the Year, that's no big deal. Consider Azeri who was HOTY and now in the HOF. No one in the United States thought enough of her to buy her.
No one.

Forget second guessing the politics.

Kudos to Zenyatta's connections for always keeping their horse in front of them. Let the challengers come to her. She is one awesome, contemporary race horse.

[The Tin Man]

This isn't about 'not travelling well' or 'hiding in California', it is clearly about avoiding competition, even California competition.


I'm disappointed in her schedule too ... But Monmouth ... You and I BOTH know St Trinians IS competition ... At least as far as mares go. For MY money she's the 2nd best mare in the country.

I'd rather see her take on some boys though or the lesser females on the East Coast.

As far as Horse of the Year ... In all honesty I could care less about that. Just as I think the Moss' could care less too.

Undefeated and capped off with a Breeder's Cup Classic win works for me. Those are the ONLY goals I care about.

Horse of the Year would be gravy, but give me an undefeated record with a Classic win to end her career and I'm happy. :grin:

[dr john h]

doesn't zardana usually come running late? i don't think of her as setting the pace, in fact she needs someone to set it for her.
i hate it that Z is going to del mar. too many horses break down there, even after they switched to synthetic and she really doesn't like that track either.
i m sure they changed their mind on the original plan of shipping for more races this year when they found out that she got dehydrated again even with all of their precautions.

[islandgirl45]

These are 2 high powered owners who want to win races. I doubt Arnold Zetcher is loaning Moss Zardana as a rabbit this weekend. He'll be out to win.


I don't buy the conspiracy theory either. Zardana's owner is very competitive. He was the one who wanted to race against Rachel Alexandra in March, not John Shirreffs, so I have to assume he plays a role in picking Zardana's races.

Plus, Zardana didn't run out front (aka a "rabbit") in either the New Orleans Ladies or the La Troinne. She was stalking behind the leaders. She was able to pounce and hang on to win the New Orleans Ladies but she fought her jockey in the La Troienne and ran out of steam.

I think St Trinians also is a stalker type, and I read something about Miss Pleasant being a potential pace-setter if she goes in the Vanity. Guess we won't know if she's in until entries are announced Thursday.

If Faith is reading this topic and has had some contact with Zen's connections, perhaps she can shed some light on why Shirreffs told DRF they're aiming for the Clement Hirsch with Zenyatta, and if they still intend to ship her east later this year prior to the Breeders Cup.

[The Tin Man]

I think St Trinians also is a stalker type, and I read something about Miss Pleasant being a potential pace-setter if she goes in the Vanity. Guess we won't know if she's in until entries are announced Thursday.


Actually Islandgirl ... St Trinians is a deep, deep closer. Much like Zenyatta ... St Trinians runs about 10 lengths back at least and ALWAYS at the back of the pack.

If they use their normal running styles in this race, it should be quite a sight to see Zenny and St Trinians come flying from the back of the pack together to close out the frontrunners. :grin:

Check St Trinians out on CalRacing.com ... Watch all 5 of her races there and I'm sure you'll be VERY impressed. :wink:

[breezing]

Actually Islandgirl ... St Trinians is a deep, deep closer. Much like Zenyatta ... St Trinians runs about 10 lengths back at least and ALWAYS at the back of the pack.

If they use their normal running styles in this race, it should be quite a sight to see Zenny and St Trinians come flying from the back of the pack together to close out the frontrunners. :grin:

Check St Trinians out on CalRacing.com ... Watch all 5 of her races there and I'm sure you'll be VERY impressed. :wink:

watch the head on view to see her pronounced egg-beater motion with her left front. creeps me out.

[SecretariatForever]

Actually Islandgirl ... St Trinians is a deep, deep closer. Much like Zenyatta ... St Trinians runs about 10 lengths back at least and ALWAYS at the back of the pack.


St Trinians was actually with the rest of the field in the Santa Maria. The front runner was way ahead of the field. She definitely wasn't as far back as Zenyatta tends to end up. She'll more than likely be ahead of Zenyatta during the beginning of the Vanity. I also think she'll start making her run before Zenyatta does to get a jump on her...she'll have to if she wants any chance of out running Z.

St Trinians certainly is one...ugly...mover. Yikes. I don't see her being much of a "threat" to Z honestly. She started her move before Life is Sweet in the Santa Maria and got a few lengths on her, and LIS was still able to gain more ground on St Trinians than she ever has on Zenyatta in the stretch. LIS wasn't going to catch St Trinians though. But St Trinians wasn't exactly pulling away from her like Z has.

[islandgirl45]

watch the head on view to see her pronounced egg-beater motion with her left front. creeps me out.


It does look strange from head on. She really wings her legs out to the side quite noticeably. Her trainer said her hind legs go to the right and her front legs go to the left.

[islandgirl45]

Actually Islandgirl ... St Trinians is a deep, deep closer. Much like Zenyatta ... St Trinians runs about 10 lengths back at least and ALWAYS at the back of the pack.

If they use their normal running styles in this race, it should be quite a sight to see Zenny and St Trinians come flying from the back of the pack together to close out the frontrunners. :grin:

Check St Trinians out on CalRacing.com ... Watch all 5 of her races there and I'm sure you'll be VERY impressed. :wink:


Hmm.. In the Santa Maria she started out hanging with the leaders about four horses across, then dropped back to run on the rail about two lengths ahead of Life Is Sweet.

I think part of the reason LIS lost that race was Garrett Gomez just waited too long to get crank her up and St Trinians got the jump on him. Also, the Santa Maria was 1-1/16 miles and there wasn't enough distance left for LIS to catch up. I'm glad the Vanity is 1-1/8 miles.

[Came Home]

Does anyone know what number race that the Vanity will be?

[ShuveesGirl]

Shirreffs said the [2010] schedule would likely be quite different than the one the strapping mare experienced during the prior two years, when she mostly stayed in California.

What a crock of bull.

I hope her connections are prepared to lose Horse of the Year for the third consecutive time. She is absolutely wasted by these people.

[Jumron]

Just watched her school. Holy hot mama she looks good.
Also saw this on TVG, with her coat all dappled and doing the Spanish step..agree with West Coast - OMG she sure looks great.

[Dusty]

What a crock of bull.

I hope her connections are prepared to lose Horse of the Year for the third consecutive time. She is absolutely wasted by these people.


STUFF IT - She has been in continuous training for quite a while - they are giving her a break while not taking her out of racing - they want her to win- then they will decide what next - as far as Horse of the Year - I do not think they care as long as she is sound, happy and improving - AND she is not wasted by these people - she is loved by them - oh yes you would rather they had retired her???? GET A CLUE

[SecretariatForever]

I think what ShuveesGirl is trying to say is that this mare has an IMMENSE amount of talent and is not being allowed to show what she can really do because her connections are keeping her in races that do not give her the opportunity to really let everyone know what she is capable of. Zenyatta loves to show off...so why not start giving her a reason to really show her talent? It's what ZENYATTA loves to do!

And I have to say I agree. Yes, of course they love her and kudos to them for keeping her in such good care...but letting her take on better horses, males, and other tracks (not synthetic) is not throwing her to the wolves and it's certainly not putting her at any risk than any other normal race could have. It's like they think by giving her a bigger challenge means they aren't taking care of her or something.

[slug863]

I really don't care if she ships anywhere or not, but after the BC Classic, there is no need to keep running her in the same races she ran the last two years.

That's the part I don't understand.

But hey, if I could end up 20 for 20 and be a 2x BC Classic winner, I'd take that too.

I just don't think it would be fair to Cigar to compare the win streaks when he ran his races in open company. 11 of which were GI.

And he won races in NY, FL, CA, IL, Dubai, LA, and MA.

[GinTalking]

These are 2 high powered owners who want to win races. I doubt Arnold Zetcher is loaning Moss Zardana as a rabbit this weekend. He'll be out to win.


He doesn't have to 'loan' her. She's in the trainer's barn. She's a very nice older filly. It's a good spot for her. He's not throwing her to the wolves. There are plenty of reasons to put her in the Vanity.

That said,

1) She was headed to Belmont per everything that's been rumored and written about.
2) Shirreffs openly stated he didn't care for the pace scenario with such a short field in the Vanity.
3) A mare in his own barn suddenly has problems getting from one major city in the U.S. to another.

I don't know, but you put one and two together, you get three ... or at least it's a possible scenario. That's all I'm saying.

Of course, you all had her coming to the DelCap too ... so I take what a lot of you folks with all the inside info with a grain of salt. So boo on that since at this time of year, that's essentially my home track and it's not a race I've missed for many years. Other California runners have done well in this race. I'd have loved to have seen her run here. Not going to happen.

I just don't see the defense for not running a GREAT horse in some of the most historic races on the East Coast OR running her against males on her on own turf. It's nuts, I think.

But keep on keeping on ...

[MonmouthGuy]

I just don't see the defense for not running a GREAT horse in some of the most historic races on the East Coast OR running her against males on her on own turf. It's nuts, I think.





Amen.

The more I think about Zenyatta's current four five six year old campaign, the more I am starting to think that her connections hope Rachel Alexandra gets back in form so the Ladies Classic can be seen as a legitimate end of year target.

[Huaka]

Didn't Zardana win one of her few graded races on the Hollywood Park surface? If it is then I wouldn't see why they didn't mind entering her in this race.

[MonmouthGuy]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=5232842

[GinTalking]

Now that I've read a few of the other posts, I really think pro-Z folks don't understand what a lot of people are saying. It's not an assault on the horse. We just don't understand why, when you think/know you have greatness on your hands, they don't insist on showing her off to the rest of the country.

You know, like Allen Paulson did with Cigar who was the last 'super older horse' as far as media and fan interest was concerned. He went places with his horse just because it was a chance for people in California, in Massachusetts, in Illinois to see his horse. Don't you think that that it would have been much easier just to run at 'home' at Gulfstream and then ship 'home' to New York ... and stay put and just run the table on all the big races at Belmont and Saratoga with maybe one trip to Suffolk or Pimlico or Oaklawn. Yeah, it would. But people all over the country remember when they got to see Cigar at a track within a few hundred miles of their homes. They can't really say that, to this point, about Zenyatta. You don't think people would have flooded Delaware Park to see Zenyatta, for instance? Of course they would ... if for no other reason to see her.

That's all I think most folks are saying and yet you guys are so protective of your horse, you can't or don't want to see what people are saying.

[carbonite]

You know, like Allen Paulson did with Cigar who was the last 'super older horse' as far as media and fan interest was concerned.

Your memory is faulty, Gin. Keep in mind this is not a situation where you are taking a current "Horse of the Year" on tour--that would be Rachel's campaign. Cigar, once he left Hassinger and went to Mott, was an east coast horse, who made sporadic forays outside that circuit.

From July 1994 to retirement:
Bel
Sar
Bel
Bel
Aqu
Aqu
GP
GP
GP
OP
Pim
Suf
Hol
Bel
Bel
Bel
GP
Nad
Suf
AP
Dmr
Bel
Bel
WO

And for those who like to bemoan theatrical retirements, who will ever forget the spectacle in the Garden.

Cigar made exactly two trips back to the west coast. He even won one of them.

[MonmouthGuy]

Your memory is faulty, Gin. Keep in mind this is not a situation where you are taking a current "Horse of the Year" on tour--that would be Rachel's campaign. Cigar, once he left Hassinger and went to Mott, was an east coast horse, who made sporadic forays outside that circuit.

From July 1994 to retirement:
Bel
Sar
Bel
Bel
Aqu
Aqu
GP
GP
GP
OP
Pim
Suf
Hol
Bel
Bel
Bel
GP
Nad
Suf
AP
Dmr
Bel
Bel
WO

And for those who like to bemoan theatrical retirements, who will ever forget the spectacle in the Garden.

Cigar made exactly two trips back to the west coast. He even won one of them.


Stop it with this East Coast horse BS. Oaklawn, Arlington and Woodbine are not considered East Coast tracks by anyone except the geographically challenged on the left coast. Each of those trips required real shipping, not even mentioning Dubai.

If you posted that list of Cigar's final 24 races to prove your point, you wound up proving the opposite. I see 11 different tracks on 7 different circuits in 3 different countries, all in open company.

[whbar158]

I do think it is odd that they have not at least gone for the big boys at their home. Much less gone after girls at any other tracks. Cigar may have only gone over the rockies twice, but like someone else pointed out he raced at 11 different tracks. It would have been one thing if he had only raced at BEL, AQD, SAR and GP lets say because that is exactly how Z is. It is in no way a knock against her because I believe she could win anywhere, but if they never prove it it will always be a bit of a blemish on her record for some people. I really don't understand why except they want to make sure she keeps winning? I mean I show horses, I understand wanting to win, but she out classes the horses in her races. It is like I am showing at a small show at my home barn and always win, have gone a few other places and won too, but haven't really been out in the real world. Personally I think it is boring to beat the same people all the time or never move up. I really thought they were going to show her off this year and so far they really aren't.

[CoronadosQuest]

I agree with Monmouth. As somebody who lives in the midwest, I don't consider Arlington Park an east coast track at all. Cus if I did, then I'd have to say I live on the east coast, and the only thing Im on the east coast of is Lake Michigan. And how is Oaklawn on the east coast? Arkansas is more west then Wisconsin, and again I don't consider myself on the east coast of anything except Lake Michigan, so maybe you can say that they are on the east coast of the Mississippi River.

[carbonite]

You (predictably) miss the point, Monmouth Guy.

There is a geographical distance between east and west, and a significant difference in what is required in terms of travel, going from either location to the midwest. The primary point is not that Cigar didn't travel--he did. But he was located in the East, and he actually did relatively little cross-country travel.

His base was Belmont and Gulfstream in the winter. The ship from Gulfstream to Oaklawn is a fairly routine one, remaining within one (southern) region. The ship to Pimlico in one direction or to Suffolk in the other is a van ride. Prior to his '95 Horse of the Year award, he had one significant ship, cross-country to Hollywood. The following year he had the big ship to Dubai, then came home for a van-up to the MassCap. He then embarked on his cross-country ship that was designed to get him a stopover halfway in Chicago with a specially-written race before doing the second half of the ship to Del Mar (Paulson's home track), and then returning to New York. If Paulson had not been living at Del Mar, that trip would never have occurred, and to make it happen, they wanted a place to go along the way. He won one of his two cross-country ships, and he won 2 of his five final starts during the sequence that began with the ship to Arlington. In the fifteen months from the time Mott got him, until he was named Horse of the Year, he started 16 times, 12 of them in New York or Florida, depending on where he was based at the time; and of the four ships, only one--the cross-country ship to the Hollywood Gold Cup--was a major transport.

Nothing that I have read thus far about Zenyatta indicates anything other than what seemed most likely with this cockamamey idea of keeping her in training for another year: try to ship and face Rachel early (which Rachel predictably avoided) then try to hold her together over the summer, so you still have something in the tank to wind up when you have to ship in the fall. Depending on what the year looks like once you get to September, you have to decide if you want to ship east for a race before the Breeders Cup or let it all ride on one last bullet in Louisville. But from day one, this campaign has never made a lot of sense to me as anything other than people having a hard time letting go of a career that they feel (I think rightly) has been undervalued.

I think that they have done a remarkable job with a remarkable mare.

[GinTalking]

Your memory is faulty, Gin. Keep in mind this is not a situation where you are taking a current "Horse of the Year" on tour--that would be Rachel's campaign. Cigar, once he left Hassinger and went to Mott, was an east coast horse, who made sporadic forays outside that circuit.

From July 1994 to retirement:
Bel
Sar
Bel
Bel
Aqu
Aqu
GP
GP
GP
OP
Pim
Suf
Hol
Bel
Bel
Bel
GP
Nad
Suf
AP
Dmr
Bel
Bel
WO

And for those who like to bemoan theatrical retirements, who will ever forget the spectacle in the Garden.

Cigar made exactly two trips back to the west coast. He even won one of them.


You just do anything to pick apart my posts, don'tcha. Well, as Monmouth Guy points out, you're really stretching it.

I wasn't necessarily making a case of anyone taking the reigning HOY on the road as much as it was taking a very popular horse around the country. And while he clearly started out "at home", by the time his fan base had grown he had done quite a bit of traveling. Even you have to know that at some point he left Gulfstream and either went directly to Oaklawn (which he may have done), but then he went back to Belmont, shipped to Pimlico and back to Belmont, shipped to Suffolk and back to Belmont, flew to Hollywood Park and finished up at Belmont (one reason being the BC was there ... if that excuse is good enough for Zenyatta, surely it's good enough for Cigar).

The following year, his schedule was GP, Nad, Suf, AP, Dmr, Bel, Bel and WO

My memory is faulty? I don't think so! And I doubt anyone else would see it that way either unless they were really stretching to find something, anything, they could pick on. You find me another top horse who has done that kind of traveling ... and that's what I'm talking about ... traveling to tracks to show off your horse. And how many horses going for a record number of wins tries to keep the record intact by flying to Dubai and include a trip to Hollywood Park ... and then, to try to break the record, he shipped back to Del Mar.

The only risk that Zenyatta has really taken is going in the Classic and even that wasn't much of a risk. It was a risk she should have taken earlier, I think, and if you listen to all the chatter coming from the Mosses, we all know they said this was going to be a different year. Where's the beef, baby!!!

Again, if any of her rabid fans want her to be remembered as an all-time great, I think she has to mix it up a little more. I don't give a hoot if she runs in the Longacres Mile or tries the Del Cap ... at least venture out a little bit. Two runs at Oaklawn is hardly enough to secure the position she should have.

[islandgirl45]

This is sheer speculation, let me declare that first so no one jumps on me. We know she was dehydrated after the trip to Oaklawn and they basically just walked her for a couple weeks afterward.

Perhaps Shirreffs is hesitant to ship her during the heat of summer for fear it might happen again and affect her more seriously? I don't know that of course, I'm just thinking out loud.

[ezgoerbaby]

Arkansas is on the west side of the Mississippi.

[Valiant Nature]

I have never entered one of these threads for the simple reason that the argument seems almost circular. And, although I do not have the facts, certainly someone here will find the following information and post it;

Horseracing, like most everything in life is neither fair, nor equitable. If you allow Oaklawn to be counted by both sides due to its proximity, and use the Mississippi as the line of demarcation, someone tell me how many G1 races run are in the east vs. the west. Also at how many different racetracks in the U.S. annually are they run.

It just seems to me that the number is so glaring that unfortunately for the west coast based horses, they simply cannot have the same criteria of argumentative facts pass muster. It's a misnomer to say your horse didn't go west anymore than mine west east, when you apply the races available for any given east coast or midwest based horse at numerous racetracks. The west coast is at a complete disadvantage. It's nobody's fault of course, but it is a glaring fact of life. And the fact that "east coast" tracks may be 600 miles apart, the "west coast threesome" are 40 miles from each other, and many times 10 miles also never seems to be taken into account. You simply cannot make parallel arguments with any real meaning.

Okay, rant on.

[CoronadosQuest]

Arkansas is on the west side of the Mississippi.


Well then... haha its not on the east coast of anything ;) I should stop replying to threads at 8:30am.

[MonmouthGuy]

The ship from Gulfstream to Oaklawn is a fairly routine one, remaining within one (southern) region.

Please, there is not much of a difference between shipping from Gulfstream to Oaklawn and Santa Anita to Oaklawn.

Probably 350 miles or so difference. Six hours in a van or 30 minutes on a plane.

[MonmouthGuy]

This is sheer speculation, let me declare that first so no one jumps on me. We know she was dehydrated after the trip to Oaklawn and they basically just walked her for a couple weeks afterward.

Perhaps Shirreffs is hesitant to ship her during the heat of summer for fear it might happen again and affect her more seriously? I don't know that of course, I'm just thinking out loud.


That is a valid and fair point. So, if you don't want to ship her, keep her at home and target the Pacific Classic instead.

If Rail Trip wins the Hollywood Gold Cup and Pacific Classic, and Zenyatta wins the Vanity and Hirsch---objectively, who would have accomplished more in 2010.

[ezgoerbaby]

How does anyone claim OP as West OR East Coast? It's neither. It's in the middle IMO. And the good people of Arkansas will tell you they are a southern state. I guess if forced to do so, I would make the Mississippi River the dividing line and Ark. is on the west side of that line.

[carbonite]

You just do anything to pick apart my posts, don'tcha.
You're way too defensive, there's nothing personal at all in this.


You find me another top horse who has done that kind of traveling ... and that's what I'm talking about ... traveling to tracks to show off your horse.

That's easy: Skip Away. He was much more of an instance of a horse travelling like a gypsy, rather than campaigning from a stable base.

Mott kept Cigar very much in his barn with his other horses, following his routine; and most of his ships were van rides or short-hop flights. The Gulfstream to Oaklawn is a good example of that kind of ship; the Belmont to Pimlico or Belmont to Suffolk is a good example of the van-ride.

This is not a personal thing at all for me; it's simply pointing out that there are logistical differences between where Zenyatta is based and what travel is for her and where a horse like Cigar was based and what travel options were available for him.

I don't really see, in this age, why there should be any more interest in whether Zenyatta races in New York than there is about whether Quality Road races in California; both places have quality racing and 98%+ of the people watching will be watching on television or a computer anyway, so what difference does it make?



I have never entered one of these threads for the simple reason that the argument seems almost circular. And, although I do not have the facts, certainly someone here will find the following information and post it;

Horseracing, like most everything in life is neither fair, nor equitable. If you allow Oaklawn to be counted by both sides due to its proximity, and use the Mississippi as the line of demarcation, someone tell me how many G1 races run are in the east vs. the west. Also at how many different racetracks in the U.S. annually are they run.

If you are seriously considering the length of the ship and the logistics required in making travel arrangements, it's probably good to have a more realistic map of the country in mind: the geographical midpoint between New York and San Francisco falls around Grand Island Nebraska and bisects the country in the eastern region of the band of states stretching from the Dakotas, through Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. That's why you see horses from the west coast rather more frequently than the northern and central east coast in pps for Lone Star, for instance. At the same time, there is a southern gulf region, in which horses fairly routinely ship between Texas at the west end and Florida at the east.

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&channel=s&hl=en&q=grand+island+nebraska&ie=UTF8& hq=&hnear=Grand+Island,+Hall,+Nebraska&ll=40.92181 4,-98.357849&spn=32.029171,56.513672&t=h&z=4

[Rick1323]

Now that I've read a few of the other posts, I really think pro-Z folks don't understand what a lot of people are saying. It's not an assault on the horse. We just don't understand why, when you think/know you have greatness on your hands, they don't insist on showing her off to the rest of the country.

You know, like Allen Paulson did with Cigar who was the last 'super older horse' as far as media and fan interest was concerned. He went places with his horse just because it was a chance for people in California, in Massachusetts, in Illinois to see his horse. Don't you think that that it would have been much easier just to run at 'home' at Gulfstream and then ship 'home' to New York ... and stay put and just run the table on all the big races at Belmont and Saratoga with maybe one trip to Suffolk or Pimlico or Oaklawn. Yeah, it would. But people all over the country remember when they got to see Cigar at a track within a few hundred miles of their homes. They can't really say that, to this point, about Zenyatta. You don't think people would have flooded Delaware Park to see Zenyatta, for instance? Of course they would ... if for no other reason to see her.

That's all I think most folks are saying and yet you guys are so protective of your horse, you can't or don't want to see what people are saying.


I see it. And for most of last year I was critical of them for the same reason. This year I have come to the conclusion that even though she wins like a robot....she is not a robot. She has issues, both physical and mental. They choose to minimize those by keeping her on familiar ground.....which happens to be synth. If her home tracks were dirt, it would be less of an issue...but it would still be an issue. She has been pretty much a regional horse for most of her career. They will close her career with one last big effort. I don't expect to see her do anything dramatic before the BC. I'm not so sure it will be the BCC again. I have a hard time being critical when they are doing what they are sure is best for her.

This is no Cigar or Skippy. Dispite her appearance, she is much more fragile and requires an easier schedule. Wouldn't you do the same if it were your horse?

[MonmouthGuy]

I don't know if they teach geography in California, but there is no materially discernable flight time difference between a Miami-Little Rock flight and a Los Angeles-Little Rock flight. If one is a "short hop" then they are both short hops. If one is a major ship, then they are both major ships.

[MonmouthGuy]

I see it. And for most of last year I was critical of them for the same reason. This year I have come to the conclusion that even though she wins like a robot....she is not a robot. She has issues, both physical and mental. They choose to minimize those by keeping her on familiar ground.....which happens to be synth. If her home tracks were dirt, it would be less of an issue...but it would still be an issue. She has been pretty much a regional horse for most of her career. They will close her career with one last big effort. I don't expect to see her do anything dramatic before the BC. I'm not so sure it will be the BCC again. I have a hard time being critical when they are doing what they are sure is best for her.


Good post. And that is probably the answer for why she doesn't ship, and a far more reasonable response then, she is the Great Mare who could win anywhere against anyone, anytime. It doesn't answer why they don't target the PAcific Classic with her, although the reasoning is likely the same.

In reality, if she shipped like Cigar and raced solely in open company, whe wouldn't be sound or undefeated. Her connections know that and are saving her for one final effort on dirt. I think whether that effort winds up being in the Classic or Ladies Classic depends a lot on how Rachel Alexandra fares the rest of the year.

[ElPrado]

Yeah, they teach geography. You lose time going easthttp://www.smileycons.com/img/emotions/137.gif, gain time going westhttp://www.smileycons.com/img/emotions/136.gif.

[Horsebagger]

Good post. And that is probably the answer, and a far more reasonable response then, she is the Great Mare who could win anywhere against anyone, anytime.

In reality, if she shipped like Cigar and raced solely in open company, whe wouldn't be sound or undefeated. Her connections know that and are saving her for one final effort on dirt. I think whether that effort winds up being in the Classic or Ladies Classic depends a lot on how Rachel Alexandra fares the rest of the year.


If the Zenyatta connections are still focusing on how Rachel's year is going, then they missed the memo about the HOY race going through Quality Road. In horse racing terms, the jock is focusing on the wrong horse, and in the meantime they're allowing the 3rd horse an easy lead and unless he comes back to the pack, they're not catching him.

[The Tin Man]

I have never entered one of these threads for the simple reason that the argument seems almost circular. And, although I do not have the facts, certainly someone here will find the following information and post it;

Horseracing, like most everything in life is neither fair, nor equitable. If you allow Oaklawn to be counted by both sides due to its proximity, and use the Mississippi as the line of demarcation, someone tell me how many G1 races run are in the east vs. the west. Also at how many different racetracks in the U.S. annually are they run.

It just seems to me that the number is so glaring that unfortunately for the west coast based horses, they simply cannot have the same criteria of argumentative facts pass muster. It's a misnomer to say your horse didn't go west anymore than mine west east, when you apply the races available for any given east coast or midwest based horse at numerous racetracks. The west coast is at a complete disadvantage. It's nobody's fault of course, but it is a glaring fact of life. And the fact that "east coast" tracks may be 600 miles apart, the "west coast threesome" are 40 miles from each other, and many times 10 miles also never seems to be taken into account. You simply cannot make parallel arguments with any real meaning.

Okay, rant on.


Del Mar is about 100 miles from Hollywood Park and about 120 miles from Santa Anita ... No biggie ... Just so the information is correct. :wink:

[MonmouthGuy]

If the Zenyatta connections are still focusing on how Rachel's year is going, then they missed the memo about the HOY race going through Quality Road. In horse racing terms, the jock is focusing on the wrong horse, and in the meantime they're allowing the 3rd horse an easy lead and unless he comes back to the pack, they're not catching him.


I think they will let the chips fall where they may when it comes to HOY. In fact, I think they would prefer to defeat Rachel in the Ladies Classic and retire undefeated than race in the Breeders Cup Classic at 10F on dirt against open company.

The argument would then be, we defeated the reigning HOY in the Breeders Cup Ladies Classic, defeated the males last year, have won an unprecendented three straight Breeders Cup races, and are retiring undefeated. We are HOY.

If QR stubs his toe between now and then, they are probably right.

[GinTalking]

This is no Cigar or Skippy. Dispite her appearance, she is much more fragile and requires an easier schedule. Wouldn't you do the same if it were your horse?


If that's the case, then yes, of course ... but that's the first time I've ever heard that she was "fragile" or anything even near that.

So she's more Ghostzapper and Tiznow than Cigar or Skip Away. I can accept that.

And if I'd never heard Jerry Moss interviewed after the Eclipse Awards last year, I'd have accepted it back in January. But I did hear him and I didn't think it was a pretty sight. I expected more. I shouldn't have. I should have known better. I apologize for that. :wink:

[MonmouthGuy]

If the Zenyatta connections are still focusing on how Rachel's year is going, then they missed the memo about the HOY race going through Quality Road. In horse racing terms, the jock is focusing on the wrong horse, and in the meantime they're allowing the 3rd horse an easy lead and unless he comes back to the pack, they're not catching him.


I think they will let the chips fall where they may when it comes to HOY. In fact, I think they would prefer to defeat Rachel in the Ladies Classic and retire undefeated than race in the Breeders Cup Classic at 10F on dirt against open company.

The argument would then be, we defeated the reigning HOY in the Breeders Cup Ladies Classic, defeated the males last year, have won an unprecendented three straight Breeders Cup races, and are retiring undefeated. We are HOY.

If QR stubs his toe between now and then, they are probably right.

[The Tin Man]

Please, there is not much of a difference between shipping from Gulfstream to Oaklawn and Santa Anita to Oaklawn.

Probably 350 miles or so difference. Six hours in a van or 30 minutes on a plane.


LA to Arkansas is about a 3 to 3 1/2 hour plane ride. Just for the record.

[The Tin Man]

I don't know if they teach geography in California, but there is no materially discernable flight time difference between a Miami-Little Rock flight and a Los Angeles-Little Rock flight. In fact, the latter may be shorter b/c you are flying east. If one is a "short hop" then they are both short hops. If one is a major ship, then they are both major ships.


MG consecends again ... and the world spins off of it's axis ... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I have NO idea the flight time from Miami to Little Rock ... But from L.A. to Little Rock it's about 3 to 3 1/2 hours. Roughly 1500 miles or so. :wink:

[MonmouthGuy]

Howmanyhours.com shows LAX to Little Rock as a 2 hour 58 minute flight and the Miami to Little Rock as a 2 hour flight. If CIgar shipped from New York to Oaklawn, it would have been 2 hours 20 minutes.

While the trip from LAX is the longest, they are all in the same range.

[Horsebagger]

I think they will let the chips fall where they may when it comes to HOY. In fact, I think they would prefer to defeat Rachel in the Ladies Classic and retire undefeated than race in the Breeders Cup Classic at 10F on dirt against open company.

The argument would then be, we defeated the reigning HOY in the Breeders Cup Ladies Classic, defeated the males last year, have won an unprecendented three straight Breeders Cup races, and are retiring undefeated. We are HOY.

If QR stubs his toe between now and then, they are probably right.


I see it differently. I think this season was ALL about getting HOY, which they feel they were robbed of last year. If it was about beating RA, they could have gone out and tracked her down when she didn't show up in the AB. This is about getting HOY, and instead of going out and proving it by beating the best out there right now, they're going to point for the Classic. And if QR loses along the way, and no other horse looks like they're in the running, they're going to run in the Ladies Classic. They're going to protect her until they are absolutely forced to take on any good horses to win HOY.

Just my opinion.

[violabella]

I think they will let the chips fall where they may when it comes to HOY. In fact, I think they would prefer to defeat Rachel in the Ladies Classic and retire undefeated than race in the Breeders Cup Classic at 10F on dirt against open company.

The argument would then be, we defeated the reigning HOY in the Breeders Cup Ladies Classic, defeated the males last year, have won an unprecendented three straight Breeders Cup races, and are retiring undefeated. We are HOY.

If QR stubs his toe between now and then, they are probably right.


Yikes...I certainly hope that isn't what they are thinking because I thought we learned last year that you can't take the previous seasons efforts or being undefeated into account for HOTY. I hate to say it but I think QR *will* be the horse to beat. If we had to vote right now, I'd have to vote for him. What's worse is that if Z win's the Vanity Saturday, I would *still* vote QR. Bless her heart, she really hasn't beaten all that much.

I agree whole-heartedly with what Gin has said too. I am disappointed with her season at this point. Not HER mind you but the races they've entered her in. I was really looking forward to seeing her in person and it now looks like I'm going to have to simply hope she stays undefeated if I'm going to get a chance to see her in Kentucky (and THANK GOODNESS I had a friend who was able to get me tickets as I didn't think I'd be able to go....).

[The Tin Man]

I think whether that effort winds up being in the Classic or Ladies Classic depends a lot on how Rachel Alexandra fares the rest of the year.


In all honestly, I think that the Zenyatta/Rachel debate was a big reason why they brought Zenny back. To beat Rachel and prove a point, more so than winning Horse of the Year. Now that who's the better of the two is really a dead issue(and will remain one), I think they've just decided to enjoy her for the rest of the year and culminate her career with a Breeder's Cup Classic win as the year end goal.

I think there is NO chance they put her in anything but the Classic at the end of the year. She's not going to The Breeder's Cup to run in the Distaff, I think that's a ludicrous thought. She's not gonna ship across country to step down in class.

Just like they topped off last year with a big bang, they'll want to top off her career the same way.

As far as Horse of the Year, I really think they could care less. I feel the same way too. If they win it, great. If they don't, who cares?

I think undefeated with a 2nd Breeder's Cup Classic win to finish her career is their goal now. It's mine too for her at this point.

I'd have loved to have seen her do a big East Coast race or two leading up to the Cup, but being as it's likely not gonna to happen ... I'm just gonna kick back and enjoy her wherever she runs ... and once I'm back in Cali next month, I'm going to go see her whenever she runs.

I'm gonna stop worrying about her schedule and savor her instead. I may not see another mare like her in my lifetime.

Yes ... I'd like them to take her on the road and showcase her a bit for whichever faithful East Coast fans she has, but I'm done getting worked up over it. I feel for her East Coast fans who won't get to see her. But it is what it is now, so I'm just gonna kick back and take her in for however many races she has left in her this year and I suggest others do the same. :wink:

If we blink, she'll be gone ... and I'm not blinking. I'm savoring.

She runs where she runs and it is what it is ... and I'm gonna just sit back and enjoy watching her run.

[Rick1323]

So she's more Ghostzapper and Tiznow than Cigar or Skip Away. I can accept that.




I believe what I see and that appears to be the case. She has stayed in racing for a very long time, but they have managed her schedule very closely. I don't think they get enough credit for keeping her in top form for this long. Much like Ghostzapper and Tiznow.

[The Tin Man]

Howmanyhours.com shows LAX to Little Rock as a 2 hour 58 minute flight and the Miami to Little Rock as a 2 hour flight. If CIgar shipped from New York to Oaklawn, it would have been 2 hours 20 minutes.

While the trip from LAX is the longest, they are all in the same range.


Looks like I was dead on in flight time MG ... And the reason I'd posted that was because you were mentioning a "30 minute plane ride" earlier when talking about Miami to Little Rock ... As a refresher ... You''d said "a 6 hour van ride or a 30 minute plane ride" in the post ...

What were you referencing as a 30 minute plane ride then? Did I misread something?

Sincere question. :wink:

[Ruffian75]

My honest opinion is that Zenyatta "might be" the greatest horse ever. I think she could be. The problem is that she will never be regarded that way. There is always an East Coast/West Coast bias. Until people on the East Coast see that big, beautiful mare run in person, they will always be skeptical.

You see her in person, you watch her run in person and you know you are watching something so perfect it will never be duplicated. I have said it before...I can only equate watching Z run to watching something like Walter Payton in a broken field run, watching Ozzie Smith turn a double play or watching Michael Jordan thread his way through the lane to the hoop. Those are all perfectly unique moments of brilliance. For me, watching Zenyatta run is like that.

I just wish the Mosses would pull the trigger and let people on the East Coast see this in person. I stand by my beliefs - the Delaware Handicap or the Personal Ensign would be perfect. Maybe even the Woodward. Something to finally shut up all of those who doubt what a great horse she is.

Until then, there will always be doubters.

[The Tin Man]

I believe what I see and that appears to be the case. She has stayed in racing for a very long time, but they have managed her schedule very closely. I don't think they get enough credit for keeping her in top form for this long. Much like Ghostzapper and Tiznow.


They're NOT afraid or dirt or any particular horses. I mean ... In all honesty, if you had Zenyatta what horse would you fear? I'd fear none. Not saying QR or RT may not be able to beat her, but fear them? No. I think Zenyatta is a better horse than both of them, but that's not saying they're not serious threats ... because they are.

Were I the owner of QR or RT, I'd fear Zenny more than I'd fear QR or RT if I were the owner of Zenny.

I think its soley that the travel is taxing at this point, so they don't want to do more of it than they have to.

[MonmouthGuy]

Looks like I was dead on in flight time MG ... And the reason I'd posted that was because you were mentioning a "30 minute plane ride" earlier when talking about Miami to Little Rock ... As a refresher ... You''d said "a 6 hour van ride or a 30 minute plane ride" in the post ...

What were you referencing as a 30 minute plane ride then? Did I misread something?

Sincere question. :wink:


I was referencing that I thought the 'difference' between the flighttimes between Miami-LR and LAX-LR was probably 30 minutes.

[MonmouthGuy]

I think its soley that the travel is taxing at this point, so they don't want to do more of it than they have to.


If it is solely travel, even giving the connections the benefit of the Vanity vs the HGC, why the Hirsch instead of the Pacific Classic.

[The Tin Man]

My honest opinion is that Zenyatta "might be" the greatest horse ever. I think she could be. The problem is that she will never be regarded that way. There is always an East Coast/West Coast bias. Until people on the East Coast see that big, beautiful mare run in person, they will always be skeptical.

You see her in person, you watch her run in person and you know you are watching something so perfect it will never be duplicated. I have said it before...I can only equate watching Z run to watching something like Walter Payton in a broken field run, watching Ozzie Smith turn a double play or watching Michael Jordan thread his way through the lane to the hoop. Those are all perfectly unique moments of brilliance. For me, watching Zenyatta run is like that.

I just wish the Mosses would pull the trigger and let people on the East Coast see this in person. I stand by my beliefs - the Delaware Handicap or the Personal Ensign would be perfect. Maybe even the Woodward. Something to finally shut up all of those who doubt what a great horse she is.

Until then, there will always be doubters.


Excellent post Ruffian ... Unfortunately we just may have to wait until The Classic to prove her greatness in person to the East ... But They'll have their chance to prove it then ... and I believe they will.

I too wish they'd have 1 more race in the East ... like New York. I'd prefer her to be showcased a little.

But regardless of what happens, once she's done running ... Those who recognize her greatness ... that's wonderful ... and those who don't ... Oh well ...

It wouldn't mean she wasn't great ... It would just mean they didn't recognize it. :wink:

I never saw Babe Ruth or Honus Wagner play ... But I have NO doubt about their greatness.

[The Tin Man]

I was referencing that I thought the 'difference' between the flighttimes between Miami-LR and LAX-LR was probably 30 minutes.


Cool ... Thanks for the clarification MG ... I'd think you're probably dead on with that :wink:

[MonmouthGuy]

Cool ... Thanks for the clarification MG ... I'd think you're probably dead on with that :wink:


It is actually closer to an hour, but not enough, IMHO, to make one a 'short hop" while the other is a 'long ship.'

Some horses just handle shipping differently. As Rick said, they are not machines.

[The Tin Man]

If it is solely travel, even giving the connections the benefit of the Vanity vs the HGC, why the Hirsch instead of the Pacific Classic.


Trust me MG ... I wish they were doing the Gold Cup too ... I FULLY understand skipping The Pacific Classic because that surface is SO damn taxing and sucks and taking on the boys there could be quite risky ... But The Hollywood Gold Cup I would have liked to have seen. Maybe they think it's too big of a step since it's her first race back after her dehydration bout ... I don't know.

But I will tell you that Rail Trip doing what he did in such an impressive fashion off of an 8 1/2 month layoff was scary good. To me ... He's an X-factor. We don't know just how good he may be and he has the exact running style that would seem to be the biggest threat to Zenny and fired the 2nd highest Beyer on synth ALL year 111 compared to Zenny's 112 in The Classic.

So I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility that they MAY be wary of him right now.

I'll tell you that Rail Trip is the ONLY horse that concerns me at all right now in regards to Zenyatta. Because he's damn fast and has NO distance limitations. That guy could take 2 miles with NO issue running full out the whole way. QR is still questionable as far as endurance. Rail Trip mixes front running speed with incredible stamina(Aka he WON'T be fading at the end ... He will have to be caught at his normal cruising speed). JUST the type of running that would seem to threaten Zenny most.

He concerns me ... Maybe he concerns Shirreffs too ... At least until they see him race another time or two this year, so they can get a true gauge of his form.

I'm putting myself on record as saying I'd love to see Zenny face RT in The Hollywood Gold Cup too.

I 100% stand by that fear or dirt is ludicrous though ... Almost all decent synth horses improve their form upon switching to dirt. Zenny's biggest margins of victory have been on dirt. The Beyers were only low because she won so damn easily that she merely gallopped around the track.

The non shipping thing is just the travel ... IMHO.

[TK]

Screw the HGC and the PC and anything back east. Too much arm chair qb'ing going on here. How many people here complain that by the time the BC arrives many of the horses are over the top or past their peak. It's quite obvious that John Shirreffs likes a fresh and peaked Zenyatta for the BC. We'll never agree on this but as long as Z wins the BC like she has for the two previous years then I call that a successfull campaign. If she wins the BCC again this year she will seal the deal for HOY most likely because she went through QR and RT to get it. If double digit grade 1's and three BC wins isn't a total success, then I don't know what is. This horse isn't a machine. She may be a monster on the track but traveling is a different issue. The trainer knows best for his horse.

[JT Dancer]

Screw the HGC and the PC and anything back east. Too much arm chair qb'ing going on here. How many people here complain that by the time the BC arrives many of the horses are over the top or past their peak. It's quite obvious that John Shirreffs likes a fresh and peaked Zenyatta for the BC. We'll never agree on this but as long as Z wins the BC like she has for the two previous years then I call that a successfull campaign. If she wins the BCC again this year she will seal the deal for HOY most likely because she went through QR and RT to get it. If double digit grade 1's and three BC wins isn't a total success, then I don't know what is. This horse isn't a machine. She may be a monster on the track but traveling is a different issue. The trainer knows best for his horse.

I totally agree; she has been in training for well over a year. If she is to get to the BC in top form, she needs a carefully planned series of races that won't 'gut' her along the way.

[slug863]

My honest opinion is that Zenyatta "might be" the greatest horse ever. I think she could be. The problem is that she will never be regarded that way. There is always an East Coast/West Coast bias. Until people on the East Coast see that big, beautiful mare run in person, they will always be skeptical.

You see her in person, you watch her run in person and you know you are watching something so perfect it will never be duplicated. I have said it before...I can only equate watching Z run to watching something like Walter Payton in a broken field run, watching Ozzie Smith turn a double play or watching Michael Jordan thread his way through the lane to the hoop. Those are all perfectly unique moments of brilliance. For me, watching Zenyatta run is like that.

I just wish the Mosses would pull the trigger and let people on the East Coast see this in person. I stand by my beliefs - the Delaware Handicap or the Personal Ensign would be perfect. Maybe even the Woodward. Something to finally shut up all of those who doubt what a great horse she is.

Until then, there will always be doubters.



I'm sorry, but this is nonsense.

If Zenyatta had the same record, running in the equivalent of the same races on the East Coast, we who live in the East would be just as outraged. Because we want to see her run in the best races against the best competition we are biased?

No one doubts how great she is. You don't become a 2x divisional champion, win two different BC races, and go undefeated (to this point) without being great.

You want to see Walter Payton against the leagues best run defense, not the worst.
You want to see the Wizard go deep into the hole to start to the DP, not just handle a routine grounder.
Wasn't it better watching MJ battle Dominique in the dunk contest, or go against the Knicks at MSG instead of playing the Clippers?
Stephen Strassburg can strike out 14 Pirates, but we want to see what he can do against the Dodgers and Phillies.

[susan]

I have been a Z fan for a long time now .

I will keep it brief though--in contrast to the windy pro and con diatribes this mare inspires .

The announcement of the Hirsch was very disappointing in light of prior proclamations for this year .

It was also disappointing as usual that reporters can't or won't ask those cut to the chase questions ...Seems to me those turf scribes just don't know how to do a succinct interview .

And seems to me that Shirreffs either should say more or say less . Ditto Jackson ..

If Z has so much trouble shipping, just say so. CLEARLY . And move on ..

If she is so good on dirt, run on it .

If she hates another surface--don't .

If you want an undefeated record alone, say so .

If you want HOY as stated--run like it or run like last year and take the lumps ..

I realize fans are not privy or owed every bloody detail of a horse's plans, but the ambiguity and twaddle belched forth from Z and R's connections is epic and annoying .

If both sides are misaligned and misunderstood, it is their fault and the fault of the racing press both .

[The Tin Man]

Wasn't it better watching MJ battle Dominique in the dunk contest, or go against the Knicks at MSG instead of playing the Clippers?


Hey!! Leave MY poor, lowly Clippers out of this!! Maybe next year ... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Somebody's gotta love them. Better than being a front-running Laker fan. :wink:

[slug863]

lol

there are no Clippers fans.

the team sucks and the owner is a cheap, racist, slumlord.

[The Tin Man]

lol

there are no Clippers fans.

the team sucks and the owner is a cheap, racist, slumlord.


Hmmmmm .... Very odd being as Elgin Baylor was his General Manager for many, many, many years ...

[slug863]

Exactly.

Sterling was the plantation owner and Elgin was his "house....servant"


If you had the misfortune of belonging to the wrong ethnic group while you lived in one of Sterling's buildings, your rent checks were refused, you were harassed, threatened or evicted and the Clippers might make the playoffs before anything was repaired in your apartment. One of Sterling's property managers testified that after Sterling bought one apartment building, the new owner remarked that the building carried a stench because "all the blacks in this building, they smell, they're not clean. And it's because of all of the Mexicans that just sit around and smoke and drink all day." That suit was settled confidentially in 2005.


The NBA would be more than justified to hand down a severe penalty because the discrimination lawsuits represent only a portion of the humiliation and bad publicity Sterling has brought to the league. He has reached confidential settlements, for example, in two sexual harassment cases. And let's not forget that former Clippers GM Elgin Baylor is suing Sterling for employment discrimination, alleging things that are similar to what has been said about Sterling in previous discrimination suits.

[MonmouthGuy]

My honest opinion is that Zenyatta "might be" the greatest horse ever. I think she could be. The problem is that she will never be regarded that way. There is always an East Coast/West Coast bias. Until people on the East Coast see that big, beautiful mare run in person, they will always be skeptical.


That is silly. This has nothing to do with East Coast/West Coast bias. Her career has been carefully managed. She is certainly the greatest mare of this generation, but I can't imagine even her most ardent fan considering her the greatest horse ever, nor is that the goal of her connections or she would be campaigned far differently. Personal Ensign, who was campaigned similarly, was #48 in the top Thoroughbreds of the 20th Century. Sounds about right.

[Somnambulist]

THANK YOU MG.

There is no East Coast bias. If Zenyatta's not regarded as the best anything, it's because the of the path her connections chose to walk, and no reason other than that. So far she's nothing but the greatest what if I've ever seen. I don't see how never seeing a horse in person somehow makes it so we here can't acknowledge an accomplishment.