Zenyatta News

[moonwalker]

It's quite obvious that John Shirreffs likes a fresh and peaked Zenyatta for the BC. We'll never agree on this but as long as Z wins the BC like she has for the two previous years then I call that a successfull campaign. If she wins the BCC again this year she will seal the deal for HOY most likely because she went through QR and RT to get it. If double digit grade 1's and three BC wins isn't a total success, then I don't know what is. This horse isn't a machine. She may be a monster on the track but traveling is a different issue. The trainer knows best for his horse.


Agree. It's worked the past two years with two BC wins. The Breeders' Cup is the goal. They announce her races well in advance. If other horses want to come challenge her, they know where she is. She's on top; she doesn't need to chase them.

I'm grateful she's racing another year, instead of being pregnant and hanging out in the paddock with Life is Sweet, gossiping.
Plenty of time for that! (though I would *love* to see her learn dressage after racing, I know they want her on the "mama track.")

Mary MMM

[Somnambulist]

Agree. It's worked the past two years with two BC wins. The Breeders' Cup is the goal. They announce her races well in advance. If other horses want to come challenge her, they know where she is. She's on top; she doesn't need to chase them.

The other horses can't race against her when she's racing in restricted company. I guess Pletcher should sign Quality Road up for a sex change.

And I'm sure I'm the only one that feels this way, but I'd rather she her retired and bred then running against the same, tired, level of competition. It's pretty boring watching her run against inferior competition. At least we'd get to see something different with a foal and guess the sex of it.

[islandgirl45]

It was also disappointing as usual that reporters can't or won't ask those cut to the chase questions ...Seems to me those turf scribes just don't know how to do a succinct interview .


You've hit the nail on the head. I've seen turf writers produce many, many snarky columns that draw the Zenyatta-bashing masses. Yet so far, I haven't seen one article that indicates a writer actually called Jerry Moss or John Shirreffs and asked simple questions like... Do you plan to send Zenyatta to race outside California before the Breeders Cup Classic? If not, are you minimizing how many times she ships because she doesn't travel well and can becomes dehydrated?

Are they so afraid of these horse owners and trainers that they can't ask straightforward questions? I don't get it.

[MonmouthGuy]

They announce her races well in advance. If other horses want to come challenge her, they know where she is. She's on top; she doesn't need to chase them.





Stop reading last year's script, because, while that may have been your motto in 2009 with Rachel Alexandra, it isn't true in 2010.

She isn't racing in open company.

If the connections of Rail Trip want to race against Zenyatta this summer in California, where exactly can they find her?

[The Tin Man]

If the connections of Rail Trip want to race against Zenyatta this summer in California, where exactly can they find her?


Damn I hate agreeing with you MG!!!

They need to face Rail Trip so I don't have to!! :wink:

[MonmouthGuy]

Damn I hate agreeing with you MG!!!

They need to face Rail Trip so I don't have to!! :wink:


Honestly, watching the big mare try to chase down Rail Trip in the Hollywood Gold Cup is something that even this East Coast fan could get excited about.

[ManOTaz]

My honest opinion is that Zenyatta "might be" the greatest horse ever. I think she could be. The problem is that she will never be regarded that way. There is always an East Coast/West Coast bias. Until people on the East Coast see that big, beautiful mare run in person, they will always be skeptical.

You see her in person, you watch her run in person and you know you are watching something so perfect it will never be duplicated. I have said it before...I can only equate watching Z run to watching something like Walter Payton in a broken field run, watching Ozzie Smith turn a double play or watching Michael Jordan thread his way through the lane to the hoop. Those are all perfectly unique moments of brilliance. For me, watching Zenyatta run is like that.

I just wish the Mosses would pull the trigger and let people on the East Coast see this in person. I stand by my beliefs - the Delaware Handicap or the Personal Ensign would be perfect. Maybe even the Woodward. Something to finally shut up all of those who doubt what a great horse she is.

Until then, there will always be doubters.


At least you put the blame where it belongs...with her connections.

And I think some of the "knocks"/cricitism of Zenyatta's connections is fair.

You look at a horse like Zenyatta who has IMHO demonstrated much more talent than Lady's Secret ever did...but who is being coddled/sheltered/protected/managed...use whatever term you like to define how her handlers are treating her...

But Ruffian, Zenyatta could beat Quality Road, Rail Trip and all the others...and frankly there would still be doubters.

They would say that the horses that she beat were not the best of the best...but at least if she did take on these horses the criticism would ring a lot more hollow than it did

I still believe her finest race...the best outing of her career was her win in the Apple Blossom in 2008. She faced a multiple grade I winner in Ginger Punch who was the defending BC Distaff Champion -- a horse that was in her prime and would go on to win multiple Grade I races afterwards....Zenyatta did it in her first Grade I effort and her first effort on dirt...and I believe she won with her largest margin of victory to date.

That was a spectacular race IMHO...much more impressive than her Breeders Cup victory because at that point there were still questions about just how good she was. By the time of the BC Classic, everyone pretty much knew how good she was particulalry on the Santa Anita track. That is why she was made the morning line favorite no matter how accomplished the field was that she was facing and the betting public kept her there.

This year, it seems that there will be no 2008 Apple Blossom moment...no race in the HGC against Rail Trip. No 9 furlong race against males in the East. I think the only semi-stretch that we may get before the BC Classic may be the Personal Ensign where she would take on females in a 10 furlong race at Saratoga - which while a test given that she will be travelling, dealing with the NY detention barn, and participating in a 9 furlong race, the Distaff company at 10 furlongs is lacking at this point unless Blind Luck points to the race.

R - I truly hope you are right. I'll be at all those races. Waiting and hoping. :grin:



Stop reading last year's script, because, while that may have been your motto in 2009 with Rachel Alexandra, it isn't true in 2010.

She isn't racing in open company.

If the connections of Rail Trip want to race against Zenyatta this summer in California, where exactly can they find her?


Well, I have yet to see that the Jockey Club recognizes gender change operations...so I think his options are between zilch...and nadda...

[susan]

You've hit the nail on the head. I've seen turf writers produce many, many snarky columns that draw the Zenyatta-bashing masses. Yet so far, I haven't seen one article that indicates a writer actually called Jerry Moss or John Shirreffs and asked simple questions like... Do you plan to send Zenyatta to race outside California before the Breeders Cup Classic? If not, are you minimizing how many times she ships because she doesn't travel well and can becomes dehydrated?

Are they so afraid of these horse owners and trainers that they can't ask straightforward questions? I don't get it.


A lot of the conjecture could be cleaned up that way ...

Theoretically ...

I am aware that Z's races have been announced in good time, but how about a little window into the game plann ???

I believe they are saving the best for last, and there are more significant shipping problems involved, but why not just say so, or why not just ask ???

[forgotten]

That is silly. This has nothing to do with East Coast/West Coast bias. Her career has been carefully managed. She is certainly the greatest mare of this generation, but I can't imagine even her most ardent fan considering her the greatest horse ever, nor is that the goal of her connections or she would be campaigned far differently. Personal Ensign, who was campaigned similarly, was #48 in the top Thoroughbreds of the 20th Century. Sounds about right.


Personal Ensign was a truly amazing mare, but she never took on the boys at any point in her career and won a BC race once. She also only made 13 starts. Zenyatta has already surpassed her as a race mare, I only hope she can be half as great in the breeding shed as Personal Ensign was.

As for why turf writers won't ask the direct questions....perhaps its because they already know that Shirreffs and Moss will tell them what they feel they want to share and nothing more. Just as they currently do with their announcements. I really feel sorry for them. Every other horse you get to train, you just go about your business. It must suck a lot of fun out of training Z to be under such a microscope all the time. I trust they will continue to do what is best for the horse.....just as they have always done.

[Somnambulist]

I believe they are saving the best for last, and there are more significant shipping problems involved, but why not just say so, or why not just ask ???


Maybe a reporter did, and they never answered? As much as it'd be nice to know, Z's connections don't really need to tell us what they're up to, or how they're spending their money, or anything like that. It's frustrating watching without much knowledge, but I guess they really don't need to tell us anything.

[Somnambulist]

Personal Ensign did run, and win, against males. She won the Whitney.

[susan]

Hey Forgotten--

Your argument loses a lot of lustre when you put out stuff that is less than factual .

Yes, Personal Ensign only ran 13 times--she had a bad fracture and came back to the races with four screws in her leg . Amazing she ran at all after that ...

She also did win against males as stated beating Gulch and King's Swan in the Whitney .

Her " only " Breeder's Cup win came at the expense of Derby winning filly Winning Colors on a track she had trouble handling .

Very different condition that those you state ...

And the fillies and mares she ran against were a cut above many Z has faced ...

[ManOTaz]

Hey Forgotten--

Your argument loses a lot of lustre when you put out stuff that is less than factual .

Yes, Personal Ensign only ran 13 times--she had a bad fracture and came back to the races with four screws in her leg . Amazing she ran at all after that ...

She also did win against males as stated beating Gulch and King's Swan in the Whitney .

Her " only " Breeder's Cup win came at the expense of Derby winning filly Winning Colors on a track she had trouble handling .

Very different condition that those you state ...

And the fillies and mares she ran against were a cut above many Z has faced ...


Wait...didn't Winning Colors lose to Personal Ensign on the same Churchill Downs track she won the Kentucky Derby on?

[MonmouthGuy]

Wait...didn't Winning Colors lose to Personal Ensign on the same Churchill Downs track she won the Kentucky Derby on?


I think Susan is stating that Personal Ensign won the BCC against Winning Colors despite the fact that Personal Ensign had trouble handling the surface.

[ManOTaz]

I think Susan is stating that Personal Ensign won the BCC against Winning Colors despite the fact that Personal Ensign had trouble handling the surface.


Oops. My bad. To quote Rosannerosannadanna -- Nevermind... :azn:

[MonmouthGuy]

Hey Forgotten--
Your argument loses a lot of lustre when you put out stuff that is less than factual .


A "true believer" never lets facts get in the way of a good argument.

[Arravale]

What is frustrating about this whole scenario is the reaction the Mosses will undoubtedly have at the HOY ceremony if she loses again after running the same lame campaign. Apparently HOY was important to them (as demonstrated by their awful sore loser display last year.) Why do they think that anything will change this year if she runs the same tired, waste of time and talent campaign? The Mosses better hope that another horse doesn't step up and run a big summer/fall or they will lose HOY again.

Quote from Moss in January:
"I would say we're probably going to travel a bit," Moss said. "I'd like to see her run in some dirt races."

Apparently "some" = 2. Lame.

[forgotten]

Somewhat frustrating trying to respond when it keeps having `connection probs'.....

I stand corrected on The Whitney. I did forget about that one. However, Zenyatta beat the KY Derby winner and the Belmont winner in her Classic. Not to mention that Summer Bird has just come off completing the triple of the Belmont, Travers and the JC Gold Cup....the first horse since Easygoer to do that, I think? To say she hasn't faced stiff competition is laughable. The mares she beat in the distaff weren't exactly substandard either. Cocoa Beach, Ginger Punch were tough knocking mares. Perhaps the company she has faced isn't considered to be as stellar because she has been so dominant throughout her career.

I did say Personal Ensign was an amazing race mare. She's one of my all time favorite mares, but Zenyatta has surpassed her accomplishments on the track. That is a fact.

Arravale, please explalin `their awful sore loser display'......I must have missed it...

[MonmouthGuy]

Somewhat frustrating trying to respond when it keeps having `connection probs'.....

I stand corrected on The Whitney. I did forget about that one. She's one of my all time favorite mares, but Zenyatta has surpassed her accomplishments on the track. That is a fact.




Give us all a break here. If Personal Ensign was one of your "all time favorite mares" there is absolutely NO possible way you would have "forgotten" that she won the Whitney. BTW, she also beat the Kentucky Derby winner in her "only" Breeders Cup win, and that happened to be at Churchill Downs, not some third surface.

You, like far too many Zenyatta fans, and unlike Susan, insult the history of this great sport with every post.

[Arravale]

I suppose "awful" was overstating. I was referring to them toasting themselves during Jackson's acceptance speech, and then their terse, nearly rude interview after the awards were announced.

I can understand being disappointed but it seemed that during their interview they were being unfairly dismissive of others' accomplishments. That interview made it clear that they felt they deserved to win HOY. I guess my point was that it was obviously important to them. I can't imagine they no longer desire HOY so why do they think that running the same campaign will win it this year?

[dr john h]

the connections of Z would have had to be pretty bad to beat jess jackson's classless comments about the track at SA beating Curlin when he he was giving his thank you speech after WINNING horse of the year with Curlin.
Curlin was my pick for horse of the the year that year, because of dubai and because he did run in the BC and ran a good race too. so nothing against Curlin but it's alwas in my mind when i hear what a great sportsman JJ is

[Slewbopper]

I don't know what to say about this schedule....It truly is pathetic what the owner and trainer are doing to rob the racing world of seeing this brilliant mare compete on a top level. The Vanity, Hirsch, Milady, and Lady's Secret again? All 250/300 k races. No one from the east will seek her out. Ship to Cali to run on plastic for peanuts? Fat chance of that. I am disgusted. *** did they even bring her back this year?

As much as I love this mare and would love to see her winning real races against real horses, I hope she gets to the Classic and loses just to spite the jerks she has for connections. But then again, to contradict myself, if she wins the Classic I will be happy for her and probably cheering her greatness down the stretch as I have never been one to hold the human connections against a horse.

[forgotten]

the connections of Z would have had to be pretty bad to beat jess jackson's classless comments about the track at SA beating Curlin when he he was giving his thank you speech after WINNING horse of the year with Curlin.
Curlin was my pick for horse of the the year that year, because of dubai and because he did run in the BC and ran a good race too. so nothing against Curlin but it's alwas in my mind when i hear what a great sportsman JJ is


The main thing that beat Curlin in the BC was lack of steroids...


Monmouth, you dont' like me so no matter what I say, you will pick it apart. I have always counted Personal Ensign among my favorites, but I do think Z has surpassed her on the track. You accuse me of insulting the history of the sport....you are insulting history in the making. Zenyatta will be remembered as an all time great whether you like it or not. I may be `stupid' by your estimation, but I'm not so dumb as to not appreciate her while she is still running. I'm also smart enough to relize that it is possible to like more than one horse at the same time. They aren't lovers, so its not like its frowned upon...

[TouchOfGrey]

I don't know what to say about this schedule....It truly is pathetic what the owner and trainer are doing to rob the racing world of seeing this brilliant mare compete on a top level. The Vanity, Hirsch, Milady, and Lady's Secret The Zenyatta again? All 250/300 k races. No one from the east will seek her out. Ship to Cali to run on plastic for peanuts? Fat chance of that. I am disgusted. What in the world? did they even bring her back this year?

Fixed that for you. :wink:

[susan]

Let's not add the Milady and Lady's Secret just yet .

It may come to pass unfortunately, but let us keep the roar to a minimum for now .

[Slewbopper]

Monmouth, you dont' like me so no matter what I say, you will pick it apart. I have always counted Personal Ensign among my favorites, but I do think Z has surpassed her on the track.


You really think so? Zenyatta didn't have to race against the likes of Gulch and King's Swan

[Best Pal]

The Milady has already ran. Made for Magic won it, you know the horse racing against Rachel Saturday. I get the feeling the people hear talk about horse racing a lot more than they actually watch it.

[susan]

You really think so? Zenyatta didn't have to race against the likes of Gulch and King's Swan


Conversely, Personal Ensign didn't have to beat a ( male ) Derby and Belmont winner in the same race ..
As well as others in the BCC .

And Gulch, the better of the two Whitney opponents-- was essentially a miler in aptitude .

[islandgirl45]

You, like far too many Zenyatta fans, and unlike Susan, insult the history of this great sport with every post.

You, like far too many Zenyatta haters, spew insults any anyone who disagrees with your horse-bashing. Why must you people be so obnoxious? Seriously, why can't all of you generate your own thread and savage Zenyatta to your heart's content without posting such nastiness in every blog that discusses her?

[susan]

The Milady has already ran. Made for Magic won it, you know the horse racing against Rachel Saturday. I get the feeling the people hear talk about horse racing a lot more than they actually watch it.


Correct--I too get all those M and Santa races muddled up ..

[forgotten]

She beat Summer Bird, Gio Ponti, Einstein, et al....Please realize that during the time Personal Ensign beat Gulch etc. they weren't even truly appreciated as much as they are now. So, yes, I do think she has surpassed Personal Ensign on the track. She has a lot of producing to do to come close to her in the breeding shed. Its funny that all the same people that guess Quality Road is the HOY for this year and Z can't beat him, gloss over that Summer Bird beat him quite soundly more than once. Z beat Summer Bird easily and he was handling the surface just fine. There were no excuses that day.

[The Tin Man]

She beat Summer Bird, Gio Ponti, Einstein, et al....Please realize that during the time Personal Ensign beat Gulch etc. they weren't even truly appreciated as much as they are now. So, yes, I do think she has surpassed Personal Ensign on the track. She has a lot of producing to do to come close to her in the breeding shed. Its funny that all the same people that guess Quality Road is the HOY for this year and Z can't beat him, gloss over that Summer Bird beat him quite soundly more than once. Z beat Summer Bird easily and he was handling the surface just fine. There were no excuses that day.


Get ready for the excuses about the QR losses to Summer Bird forgotten ... They'll be forthcoming ... :wink:

[susan]

Please realize that during the time Personal Ensign beat Gulch etc. they weren't even truly appreciated as much as they are now.

I think they were MORE appreciated then, as their accomplishments were fresh enough to remember that Personal Ensign beat the boys in the Whitney .

Goodbye Halo, Gulch and King's Swan are barely discussed or appreciated today.

Personal Ensign's most remembered and appreciated rival is Winning Colors .

Have to disagree with your statement based on the evidence .

[forgotten]

I think they were MORE appreciated then, as their accomplishments were fresh enough to remember that Personal Ensign beat the boys in the Whitney .

Goodbye Halo, Gulch and King's Swan are barely discussed or appreciated today.

Personal Ensign's most remembered and appreciated rival is Winning Colors .

Have to disagree with your statement based on the evidence .


I guess from my point of view, Gulch is more appreciated for the sire he became.

[susan]

I guess from my point of view, Gulch is more appreciated for the sire he became.


That I would totally agree with.

[Slewbopper]

Conversely, Personal Ensign didn't have to beat a ( male ) Derby and Belmont winner in the same race ..
As well as others in the BCC .

And Gulch, the better of the two Whitney opponents-- was essentially a miler in aptitude .


You are a pretty dim bulb Susan. Do I have to use an emoticom to show sarcasm?

[Slewbopper]

She beat Summer Bird, Gio Ponti, Einstein, et al....Please realize that during the time Personal Ensign beat Gulch etc.


There is no etcetera to Gulch. She beat him and King's Swan, a claimer....period

[susan]

You are a pretty dim bulb Susan. Do I have to use an emoticom to show sarcasm?


Not at all, my lttle sour pickle .

You might have missed my point as well, that both horses beat about the likes of the same--good, but not awesome . Wasting no wattage are we ???

And King's Swan was a bit better than to be labelled a claimer--or did I really miss your sarcasm there ???

[Huaka]

LoL, the people on the PaceAdvantage forum are calling Zardana a rabbit. Heh? I guess they didn't notice she actually won some stakes races as well. She doesn't always run on the lead either, so what gives? Someone needs to post there and tell them what's what.

[FastG45]

Anybody going to try to beat Zenyatta this weekend? She is like the SUN, you know she will show up.

If you had to bet on one horse to save your life, who would it be out of this list:

Zenyatta
Rachel Alexandra
Presious Passion
Rail Trip
Blame
Battle Plan

[EquineAnne]

There is no etcetera to Gulch. She beat him and King's Swan, a claimer....period


A Claimer period? WTH Redman, have you seen his record? Of course living where you live, I'm surprised you didn't attend those races. For shame you sour little pickle. LOL best line I've heard ever to describe you. LOL again!

[JT Dancer]

Anybody going to try to beat Zenyatta this weekend? She is like the SUN, you know she will show up.

If you had to bet on one horse to save your life, who would it be out of this list:

Zenyatta
Rachel Alexandra
Presious Passion
Rail Trip
Blame
Battle Plan


Zenyatta would be my choice, but if I bet on her that would probably be her one and only loss :laugh:

[Somnambulist]

I wonder what the problem with calling Gulch a miler is. It's true. What Personal Ensign beat in the Whitney wasn't something to wet your pants over.

[littlelate]

I wonder what the problem with calling Gulch a miler is. It's true. What Personal Ensign beat in the Whitney wasn't something to wet your pants over.
But what Rachel beat in the Woodward was? No need to detract some of the all-time greats to get your point across; ra can be good without smacking other horses. That goes for the silly King's Swan comment from bopper, too.

[Somnambulist]

But what Rachel beat in the Woodward was? No need to detract some of the all-time greats to get your point across; ra can be good without smacking other horses. That goes for the silly King's Swan comment from bopper, too.


I have never said that what Rachel beat in the Woodward was good... ever, so I'm a little unsure how RA gets dragged into this.

Obviously no horse can control the other horses they run against. Gulch was without fail a really respectable horse, but I think a lot of people can agree that he probably preferred a mile over the distance of the Whitney. I'm not trying to detract anything from PE, she's one of my favorite horses and I follow all descendants of hers. She didn't need to beat the reincarnation of a Secretariat-Man O War hybrid to be good, but to think her competition in the Whitney was stellar is a little loopy too.

[forgotten]

Obviously no horse can control the other horses they run against.


I agree, but apparently there is a double standard on this as far as Zenyatta's concerned. She beat a solid field in the BCC last year but that's still not enough for her detractors....

[Somnambulist]

I agree, but apparently there is a double standard on this as far as Zenyatta's concerned. She beat a solid field in the BCC last year but that's still not enough for her detractors....


I'm not sure anyone (well, maybe not everyone) detracts from Zenyatta. I think a lot of people are frustrated because she's shown that she's head and shoulders above the rest of the competition, but yet she's running a pretty boring schedule. I really have nothing but respect for Zenyatta, but I'm not going to sit here and say she's the best horse ever. She hasn't run a campaign that fits that title.

[Hermes]

I want to figure out how 3 weeks was enough time originally between her first start of the year and the Apple Blossom, which then became a better four week gap thanks to Jess, and how 4 weeks is enough the past two years for her last prep Ladies Secret to BC, but it is not enough time between Vanity and HWG? Anyone?

BTW, wonder what the final prep will be now after the Hirsch? The Zenyatta or would she possibly go to Spinster at Kee and stay in KY for BC? I'd never have thought that but given that JS has done a huge about face on how she is so much better on dirt, he wishes he could race her on dirt, and he is now willing to race her at Del Mar (but not in the Pacific Classic of course)...well it is hard to know what to think other than they are managing something, and all in once again on BCC, which is fine, although the "It is in CA" excuse doesn't fly this year. But then neither does Zenyatta. I guess even Fiji water can't rehydrate The Big Mare.

She keeps this schedule and doesn't pull off or maybe even make the ship to CD, and she might not win any Eclipse this year if another mare starts running the table in the east.

[forgotten]

I think you need to just accept that Z likely won't run against the boys until BC. Why burn her out and ask her to run harder than she needs to at this point in the year? Save the best run for the biggest race. I'm a bit surprised that people that claim to know everything about racing can't quite get this concept.

[Hermes]

I think you need to just accept that Z likely won't run against the boys until BC. Why burn her out and ask her to run harder than she needs to at this point in the year? Save the best run for the biggest race. I'm a bit surprised that people that claim to know everything about racing can't quite get this concept.


Everyone gets that, just some of us think it sucks for the "sport" and is far from what Moss said would happen this year, and detracts from Z's legacy. But hey, forgotten, never let an opportunity at a dig pass, lest we just forget you.

[forgotten]

Horses aren't machines. Maybe their intention was to run her in different spots, but since the ship to the Apple Blossom took more out of her than they thought it would, they adjusted their plans. She's not a machine, they have to be somewhat flexible in their plans and put the horses first. Sorry its bad for the sport. I suppose her losing or getting hurt would be ok as long as she did it while flying all over hell and back and running solely against males.

Don't you need to go start some more rumors about Calvin Borel based on your assumptions of his demeanor while galloping this morning?

[Hermes]

Horses aren't machines. Maybe their intention was to run her in different spots, but since the ship to the Apple Blossom took more out of her than they thought it would, they adjusted their plans. She's not a machine, they have to be somewhat flexible in their plans and put the horses first. Sorry its bad for the sport. I suppose her losing or getting hurt would be ok as long as she did it while flying all over hell and back and running solely against males.

Don't you need to go start some more rumors about Calvin Borel based on your assumptions of his demeanor while galloping this morning?


Nah, I just need to wait for the Quality Road stud deal to be announced so everyone can breath a sigh of relief at your impending vacation.

[forgotten]

Yes, I should follow your lead and register a few variations of my name just incase, huh? I'm thinking I'll be just fine on our bet...

[Hermes]

Yes, I should follow your lead and register a few variations of my name just incase, huh? I'm thinking I'll be just fine on our bet...

No, I will take a month off as Hermes if Darley buys him, don't worry. I am willing to honor my bet, forgotten. You think all you like, everyone here gets to judge you with every lovely post you make. The humor is unending if nothing else.

[forgotten]

You seem to think that a message board is real life and its about `winning'. Who cares what somebody that hides behind a nickname thinks of you or is threatened by that other than you, Hermes. Seriously, you take this message board way too seriously. You were dead wrong about Calvin being taken off RA and him looking sad at the Belmont because of that. You have been told you are wrong in the breeding forum, but you keep harping on this QR and Lane's End business. What difference does it make where he goes? I just don't see Lane's End supporting his sire line nor do MANY real horsemen think he's going to add up to being a superstar in the breeding shed. I asked you to name one son of Elusive Quality that has sired some serious runners and you can't. So let it go....He's a nice racehorse and he should stay running as long as they can keep him together. You are one of these people that think that you can only like one horse a bunch and have to hate and run down every other one. Kind of like your insecurities causing you to be vile to other people that actually do know as much or more than you.

[Hermes]

Did you say something forgotten? Cause I know you don't mean you know as much as I do or 90% of the folks here. Yeah, why don't we let it go and reconvene for a parting shot when QR's stud deal is announced;) Not that anyone here thinks you won't welsh on the bet, or that you have a clue who would be a better sire prospect for 2011, and I am sorry, but does EQ have any sires out there with more than 3 yr olds this year?

[forgotten]

there are several sires with no more than three year olds doing quite well......

I'm not getting in a useless argument with you over who knows more. I'm quite secure within myself and certainly don't care what you think. In fact, I would be more worried if you agreed with me....then I would start to wonder if I had lost my touch after all these years... :smiley:

[The Tin Man]

Did you say something forgotten? Cause I know you don't mean you know as much as I do or 90% of the folks here. Yeah, why don't we let it go and reconvene for a parting shot when QR's stud deal is announced;) Not that anyone here thinks you won't welsh on the bet, or that you have a clue who would be a better sire prospect for 2011, and I am sorry, but does EQ have any sires out there with more than 3 yr olds this year?


Uhhhhhhhh ... That's "welch" Hermes ... :wink:

[Hermes]

there are several sires with no more than three year olds doing quite well......

I'm not getting in a useless argument with you over who knows more. I'm quite secure within myself and certainly don't care what you think. In fact, I would be more worried if you agreed with me....then I would start to wonder if I had lost my touch after all these years... :smiley:


Only if you were one of those children that touched the stove even when told, "It's Hot. Don't."
Yeah, EQ on that 10k fee he started with has had a great shot as a sire of sires so far. It's a damn wonder he still stands for 75k after all these years, isn't it? Keep 'em coming Ms. Security. DIG that hole, baby!

[Hermes]

Uhhhhhhhh ... That's "welch" Hermes ... :wink:


Damn, Tinny, you got that one wrong, too. Ouch. Look it up. Welsh is used, too. But when one is as petty and pedantic as you are, this is to be expected. How's that second Cushion Track company doing?

[forgotten]

Not sure why we are discussing this in a Zenyatta thread, but being a great sire is one thing, being a sire of sires is another. So far EQ has not proven to be a sire of sires. That's not just my wild idea, several people in the industry aren't convinced that his sons are or will be great sires. Useful for a regional market like PA or LA, maybe....but not great.

The reason I haven't named `THE MOST EXCITING SIRE PROSPECT OF THE YEAR' is because it is only June of this year and I don't know who is even retiring. But, I define a great or exciting prospect as one that is likely to throw a few star runners and increase in fees, not one that will get a decent fee based on hype and then fade away to smaller market or have his fees lowered on his second year because people weren't bringing the goods to him. As I have told you, you wouldn't have found a better horse racing at his time than Gentleman, but where is he now and what has he sired?

[The Tin Man]

Damn, Tinny, you got that one wrong, too. Ouch. Look it up. Welsh is used, too. But when one is as petty and pedantic as you are, this is to be expected. How's that second Cushion Track company doing?


Look like the the snarky one and I are both correct on this one ... Damn it! :wink:

welsh (wĕlsh, wĕlch) also welch (wĕlch)

intransitive verb welshed also welched, welshing also welching, welshes also welches
Informal
1.To swindle a person by not paying a debt or wager.

2.To fail to fulfill an obligation.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/welch

[Hermes]

I loved Gentlemen, but he as not well bred like QR. He did fail miserably at stud, too. Nine out of ten of them fail as sires, so you are likely to be right. But someday it will occur to you what the difference is between a made sire and sire prospect is, I just know it. And then maybe it is possible you will learn the basis for judging the value of a prospective sire. I have faith in you despite evidence much to the contrary.

[The Tin Man]

Damn, Tinny, you got that one wrong, too. Ouch. Look it up. Welsh is used, too. But when one is as petty and pedantic as you are, this is to be expected. How's that second Cushion Track company doing?


Awwwww petty and pedantic ... You should know Hermes baby ... Are you flirting with me??? :wink: :kiss:

[Hermes]

Awwwww petty and pedantic ... You should know Hermes baby ... Are you flirting with me??? :wink: :kiss:


Nah, just hoping this will go back to the subject of Z, and that the two of you will seek negative attention elsewhere?

[forgotten]

I'm well aware what makes a good prospect. Trust me. QR's main value as a sire will be before his babies hit the track and prove they are average at best. He's from a nice bred mare, but other than him what has she produced. I don't care who she is related to, because surely you know siblings of good horses don't usually measure up....who has she produced other than him? She, herself, did not win a race. That's a big knock right there. It would have been better had she been a non-starter. So, to me and most other horsemen, a `prospect' is one that is likely to go on to be a good or important sire. Based on that, he's not the best bred one out there. Any son of Distorted Humor that retires this year out of a decent mare is likely to be a better sire prospec than him.

For the record, Gentlemen wasn't ill bred, he was, in fact, decently but obscurely bred. The blood was there, he just didn't work as a sire at all.

Hermes, why are you even interested in getting back to the subject of Z. You clearly have disdain for her and her connections.

[luvsgeldings]

tvg showed her schooling late this afternoon in the hollywood park paddock - she looked great - dapples all over - she was pawing the ground - but her tail... what the heck - its looking really short and sparse - are they cutting pieces of it and giving it away or what? other than that, she looked like her usual big beautiful self.

[Hermes]

I like Z. I don't like many of her fans, yourself included.

You are laughable in your assertion that QR is not a good stud prospect and I can't wait for you to eat your words, Ms. Secure Horseman, when he is sold for many many millions or goes to stud at Lane's End for a healthy fee. W T F would anyone stand him for that kind of money or buy him for that kind of money of they DIDN'T think he would be a good sire? He is out of a half FULLsister to Ajina. You don't care WHO she is related to? Can you really be this dense?

I did not call Gentlemen "ill bred" BTW, but hey since in your parallel universe, Personal Ensign never beat males, what's a little twist of someone else's words?

I am trying to think of the spectacular sires that Distorted Humor has sired already? Maybe you can help me out there unless your Hypocrisy Meter has exploded in your own head by now?

[The Tin Man]

Nah, just hoping this will go back to the subject of Z, and that the two of you will seek negative attention elsewhere?


You're the one who ALWAYS reverts to name calling Hermes my dear ... You're the one bringing on the negative attention.

Drop the name calling and just discuss things in a civil manner and you just may be amazed by how peaceful things would get.

Name calling is NOT a good way to get people to see your point of view and you have a bad habit of doing it.

It's really, truly, honestly OK for people to have different points of view ... and can often be constructive ...

Don't get so worked up when other's viewpoints differ from yours ... It's TRULY not personal ... But it becomes that way when YOU resort to calling names instead of being constructive. :wink:

[Somnambulist]

Don't get so worked up when other's viewpoints differ from yours ... It's TRULY not personal ... But it becomes that way when YOU resort to calling names instead of being constructive. :wink:


Uhm, no. I've seen Hermes have plenty of civil conversations with people that have a differing opinion.

[Hermes]

Tin Ear, you are truly insufferable. Really. You try to correct me for the word welsh , and you're wrong to boot of course, and then you post more dribble. Look, dude, we all know you don't like me and have a different set of rules for what I should post v. you and your pals. But for gawd's sake, stay away from me. For everyone's sake. At least forgotten, while terribly misinformed, is arguing about horses. You just want to argue and be a hypocritical sanctimonious pill.

[Hermes]

Uhm, no. I've seen Hermes have plenty of civil conversations with people that have a differing opinion.


Thank you Som, my faith in objectivity is momentarily restored.

It amazes me how some of these mainly "new" posters bait, waste space, wash, rinse, repeat, and then accuse me (or others as the case may be) of treating them unkindly.

[forgotten]

I like Z. I don't like many of her fans, yourself included.

You are laughable in your assertion that QR is not a good stud prospect and I can't wait for you to eat your words, Ms. Secure Horseman, when he is sold for many many millions or goes to stud at Lane's End for a healthy fee. W T F would anyone stand him for that kind of money or buy him for that kind of money of they DIDN'T think he would be a good sire? He is out of a half FULLsister to Ajina. You don't care WHO she is related to? Can you really be this dense?

I did not call Gentlemen "ill bred" BTW, but hey since in your parallel universe, Personal Ensign never beat males, what's a little twist of someone else's words?

I am trying to think of the spectacular sires that Distorted Humor has sired already? Maybe you can help me out there unless your Hypocrisy Meter has exploded in your own head by now?


Can you please answer who QR's mother has produced other than him? Full sister means NOTHING once they have foals on the ground if those foals aren't up to snuff. Are you really that clueless as to how that works?

Distorted Humor has DaStoops....already has winners on the ground out of his 2 yr old crop....Any Given Saturday, Flower Alley, its No Joke, Sharp Humor......all young sires many people are quite excited about. Not bad for a young sire which Distorted Humor is as far as being a sire of sires...

Elusive Quality has Smarty Jones....not exactly a barn burner on the success scale....he's the same age as Distorted Humor btw....

[Hermes]

I m not willing to derail the Z thread further.

[The Tin Man]

Tin Ear, you are truly insufferable. Really. You try to correct me for the word welsh , and you're wrong to boot of course, and then you post more dribble. Look, dude, we all know you don't like me and have a different set of rules for what I should post v. you and your pals. But for gawd's sake, stay away from me. For everyone's sake. At least forgotten, while terribly misinformed, is arguing about horses. You just want to argue and be a hypocritical sanctimonious pill.


So ... I guess you won't step back from the name calling then?

And welch and welsh are BOTH correct ... You know that.

[Somnambulist]

Welch and Welsh are not the same. One is jelly, the other refers to people who come from a country.

[The Tin Man]

Welch and Welsh are not the same. One is jelly, the other refers to people who come from a country.


I posted the definition and the link earlier in this thread Somny ... Look back a page or two ... It's both ways ... :wink:

Here it is ... I copied and pasted it again ...

welsh (wĕlsh, wĕlch) also welch (wĕlch)

intransitive verb welshed also welched, welshing also welching, welshes also welches
Informal
1.To swindle a person by not paying a debt or wager.

2.To fail to fulfill an obligation.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/welch

[forgotten]

I m not willing to derail the Z thread further.


Pretty convenient when you just got proven wrong....

[Hermes]

I posted the definition and the link earlier in this thread Somny ... Look back a page or two ... It's both ways ... :wink:


Yeah, we know. I said that in my first reply to you. But really, keep the Z train off the tracks so we can pay more attention to you for an inane post that was written with the sole intention of making me wrong about something and you couldn't even get that right.

[Dusty]

SOM - Love the AVATAR!


Can we PLEASE get this thread back on track!

[Hermes]

Pretty convenient when you just got proven wrong....


I was waiting for you. But you didn't get off so easy. I moved the discussion and your stupidity to the QR thread so we can all continue to laugh at your posts, or moan in agony, as the case may be. You can thank me over there. Leave Z alone. She needs her rest :evil:

[forgotten]

A truly secure person would not have to constantly speak for the masses and hide behind `we'. But then again a secure person wouldn't drop first names of people they don't really know..... :azn:

[Sun Devils]

Forgotten, here is the drill. You disagree with hermes, you are an idiot. Once you realize how she operates, you will never feel better about feeling like an idiot. By the way, does Calvin have any mounts at Churchill this Saturday? He looked so sad, like a wittle baby during the Belmont telecast?

[Somnambulist]

Man, you guys really pick and chose what ya wanna read about here, don't you?

[forgotten]

Forgotten, here is the drill. You disagree with hermes, you are an idiot. Once you realize how she operates, you will never feel better about feeling like an idiot. By the way, does Calvin have any mounts at Churchill this Saturday? He looked so sad, like a wittle baby during the Belmont telecast?
:azn:



Man, you guys really pick and chose what ya wanna read about here, don't you?
She gives us so much to work with.... :grin:

[MonmouthGuy]

No, here is the drill>>>>> you call Personal Ensign one of your "all time favorite race mares" and have no idea that she won the Whitney, then you are an idiot.

Or you call Quality Road a "nag" 30 seconds after he runs the fastest race of the year anywhere in the world according to the Racing Post, then you are an idiot.

[dustino140]

Forgotten, here is the drill. You disagree with hermes, you are an idiot. Once you realize how she operates, you will never feel better about feeling like an idiot. By the way, does Calvin have any mounts at Churchill this Saturday? He looked so sad, like a wittle baby during the Belmont telecast?


You mean the 'wittle baby' that became more famous and rich in a few years than you'll ever even dream of becoming? I think he'll survive. You had to have lost a ton of money betting against Rachel last year. That's the only thing that explains it. I mean, I get not liking a horse, but you go above and beyond the rest of your cohorts.

And yes, I would like fries with that.

[littlelate]

SOM - Love the AVATAR!
Funny; I have it ad blocked on Mozilla.

Of all the people you never thought you'd hear it from, I'm sick of the arguing. Z's done X, rachel's done Y, until they face off, any bickering is pointless.
http://www.lolpix.com/_pics/Funny_Pictures_782/Funny_Pictures_7828.jpg

[Hermes]

A truly secure person would not have to constantly speak for the masses and hide behind `we'. But then again a secure person wouldn't drop first names of people they don't really know..... :azn:


I have only corrected the name spellings of people you dropped as folks you think I know, and seem insecure and obsessed about, as though you privately think, crap, SHE does know her sh!t and I am drowning here but I can't stop swimming upstream, help ME.

[Sun Devils]

And yes, I would like fries with that.


Nice way to insult those who bust their asses to serve you food. You are a joke. I don't work in food services, nor would I be ashamed to do so. Let me know how many post-graduate degrees you have and then maybe I will consider you an equal. Until then, keep on mocking folks who need to work at jobs that insult you so they can pay the bills.

[dustino140]

I really just don't get it. Zenyatta is the better horse now. Nobody is denying that. Rachel won HOY last year. Nobody is taking that away from her. If you want to, get over it. I pray that there is something more important going on in your life than holding a grudge over a thoroughbred award that was handed out 6 months ago.

So what the hell are we arguing about?

There was a thread about Quality Road here. It's now about Zenyatta. There was a thread about St. Trinians here. It's now about Zenyatta. There's a thread about the Fleur de Lis here. It's about bashing Rachel. There's a pair of Vanity threads here. They're about Zenyatta. There's a Zenyatta thread here. It's about Zenyatta. There's a thread about Trappe Shot's odds in the Travers. It's just about the stupidest thing I've ever read on the internet.

[dustino140]

Nice way to insult those who bust their asses to serve you food. You are a joke. I don't work in food services, nor would I be ashamed to do so. Let me know how many post-graduate degrees you have and then maybe I will consider you an equal. Until then, keep on mocking folks who need to work at jobs that insult you so they can pay the bills.


You make me wish I owned stock in Kleenex. Somebody is making money off your usage.

[Sun Devils]

You make me wish I owned stock in Kleenex. Somebody is making money off your usage.


Whatever. Spit on any homeless people on the way home this evening?

[Hermes]

Nice way to insult those who bust their asses to serve you food. You are a joke. I don't work in food services, nor would I be ashamed to do so. Let me know how many post-graduate degrees you have and then maybe I will consider you an equal. Until then, keep on mocking folks who need to work at jobs that insult you so they can pay the bills.


Do you ever post about horses here? Or do you only pop up like a jack in the box to insult others? Oh, wait, do you work at Jack in the Box? That's not really food or service, true.

[Sun Devils]

Do you ever post about horses here? Or do you only pop up like a jack in the box to insult others? Oh, wait, do you work at Jack in the Box? That's not really food or service, true.


Here's a post about horses. Rachel is running on Saturday. Calvin is on her back. Admit you were wrong...oh wait, that would go against everything you stand for. You might hit 1000 posts by Saturday at your rate.

[dustino140]

Whatever. Spit on any homeless people on the way home this evening?


I don't dislike you that much =/

[forgotten]

I have only corrected the name spellings of people you dropped as folks you think I know, and seem insecure and obsessed about, as though you privately think, crap, SHE does know her sh!t and I am drowning here but I can't stop swimming upstream, help ME.


Trust me, at no point has it ever crossed my mind that you are anything other than a wannabe. Privately or otherwise. You jump all over a typo....yet you refer to `Calvin' and `Sheik Mo' blah blah blah....The fact you were the rocket scientist that spawned the rumor he was taken off Rachel because he looked sad at The Belmont proves what a fake you are and how little you really do know. Because if you did know how things work and how professional riders were....you would have realized he was there to ride a different horse that day and was focussed on that. So refer to him as `Calvin' all you want and you can throw in Steve-O Assumsen and Bobby Baffert or whatever pet names you make up but it still won't make you anything other than an insecure wannabe that can't hold a civil conversation on a message board or handle somebody disagreeing with them without calling names and throwing a hissy.

YOU are going to hold up a post count as an argument? Weren't you the one that said if you resort to that it proves you're losing???? :azn:

I have two horses running in stakes this weekend, I highly doubt my post count is going to climb much on Saturday or Sunday...

[dustino140]

Trust me, at no point has it ever crossed my mind that you are anything other than a wannabe. Privately or otherwise. You jump all over a typo....yet you refer to `Calvin' and `Sheik Mo' blah blah blah....The fact you were the rocket scientist that spawned the rumor he was taken off Rachel because he looked sad at The Belmont proves what a fake you are and how little you really do know. Because if you did know how things work and how professional riders were....you would have realized he was there to ride a different horse that day and was focussed on that. So refer to him as `Calvin' all you want and you can throw in Steve-O Assumsen and Bobby Baffert or whatever pet names you make up but it still won't make you anything other than an insecure wannabe that can't hold a civil conversation on a message board or handle somebody disagreeing with them without calling names and throwing a hissy.

YOU are going to hold up a post count as an argument? Weren't you the one that said if you resort to that it proves you're losing???? :azn:

I have two horses running in stakes this weekend, I highly doubt my post count is going to climb much on Saturday or Sunday...


Who are they, in order for us to cheer for them? Best of luck to you.

[Hermes]

Here's a post about horses. Rachel is running on Saturday. Calvin is on her back. Admit you were wrong...oh wait, that would go against everything you stand for. You might hit 1000 posts by Saturday at your rate.


Oh is that going to make you happy? Somehow I doubt that. I was wrong. Calvin was not sad about losing the mount on Rachel because he has not lost the mount. I have no problem being wrong, it is rare enough, and any objective sane reader here knows I was musing, and sad for Calvin if so, not claiming it was so.

[Hermes]

Wow, I didn't even read all of that, but can see, with some delight, that I have crawled under forgotten's skin in a BIG WAY. She means the "stakes races" that she runs with her Breyer horses on her bedroom floor Dustino. Which one are you rooting for?

[forgotten]

It was a completely assinine thing to even suppose from what you were basing it on. Why didn't you just give ole Calvin a call and ask? I thought you knew everybody who is anybody?

Breyer horses? :azn: :azn: Now you are projecting your life onto me!

[MonmouthGuy]

Whatever. Spit on any homeless people on the way home this evening?


No, that was me. But at least I threw you a towel afterwards.

[Sun Devils]

No, that was me. But at least I threw you a towel afterwards.


Thanks nag.

[Hermes]

It was a completely assinine thing to even suppose from what you were basing it on. Why didn't you just give ole Calvin a call and ask? I thought you knew everybody who is anybody?

Breyer horses? :azn: :azn: Now you are projecting your life onto me!


Way to go when I can admit I am wrong. Hey Ms. Asinine, you are going to get your own shot at that soon enough. Which horsie won the "stakes race"?

[forgotten]

It hasn't run yet, but I'll let ya know after Sunday. He ran third in his year opener so he should be on the board again this weekend with the rider change.

[Old Bones]

Zenyatta could run in New York ? maybe

http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/zenyatta-could-run-in-new-york-maybe/4694/

[Hermes]

Zenyatta could run in New York ? maybe

http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/zenyatta-could-run-in-new-york-maybe/4694/


Steve Anderson at DRF must love how often JS throws him under the bus. Unbelievable games. I wish Jess owned Zenyatta so JS had a muzzle.

[susan]

Steve Anderson at DRF must love how often JS throws him under the bus. Unbelievable games. I wish Jess owned Zenyatta so JS had a muzzle.


Maybe Steve Anderson threw JS under the bus with bad reprting--it could go either way ..

That said--where's your muzzle ???

[Railbird]

This comment on that blog really got to me.


Please send her East, I just want to see her once before I die, I waited for the Red Sox, I will wait for the Great Z, I already have the mapquest printed out and the directions in my GPS, the money in the bank saved for gas and tolls, I will sleep in my car if I have to, I just want to see her once, I want to be able to say I saw THE Greatest... She has been such an inspiration for me for 2 years now, watching her has gotten me through some really tough times filled with the death of my Dad,loss of my Mom, my husband having a stroke, financial problems, the loss of 3 of my dogs and much more. I would come home after working 14 hours and sit on my computer and watch the videos John Sherriffs and Larry Zapp posted and it would make me smile and get me through and give me strength, Her races were something to look forward to, I have all her race stubs saved and uncashed..She never wavered, never caved, never gave less than her all, never gave in or up..Sometimes God puts something in your way to give you courage and this is what Zenyatta did for me?.She is an amazing Example of what Grace and Courage are. God smiled one day and created Zenyatta..

That got me. Completely got me. Because so many horses have done the same for me, and God bless Zenyatta - whatever else you may think of her - for doing it for this person. This is why I love horse racing.

[Hermes]

Maybe Steve Anderson threw JS under the bus with bad reprting--it could go either way ..

That said--where's your muzzle ???


The best muzzle is the one you wear called the big always very sour dill, and if you post anything that isn't a personal shot at someone, then we can take it off. Try it. Just once.

[susan]

The best muzzle is the one you wear called the big always very sour dill, and if you post anything that isn't a personal shot at someone, then we can take it off. Try it. Just once.


As posted through the looking glass darkly .

I do ocassionally post a shot or two, but I am an also ran to you dear ...

As everyone knows .

Why don't you try it ??

Surely that would be novel .

And take Drano with you .

[Hermes]

You post shots at everyone Susan, all the time. I am civil to those that are the same. But no problem, I'll go first and try to be the change I want to see here.

[susan]

You post shots at everyone Susan, all the time. I am civil to those that are the same. But no problem, I'll go first and try to be the change I want to see here.


You know better than the first statement you made--and if things had reverted to drawing awayville, there never would have been a problem .

But hey--I would not mind a change, and I am willing to participate as long as the olive branch doesn't have thorns or root rot ..

[ShuveesGirl]

STUFF IT - She has been in continuous training for quite a while - they are giving her a break while not taking her out of racing - they want her to win- then they will decide what next - as far as Horse of the Year - I do not think they care as long as she is sound, happy and improving - AND she is not wasted by these people - she is loved by them - oh yes you would rather they had retired her???? GET A CLUE


Stuff it?

How old are you? Like, twelve?

I could comment more but I think your post stands well enough on its own merits, or rather lack thereof.

[islandgirl45]

This comment on that blog really got to me.

That got me. Completely got me. Because so many horses have done the same for me, and God bless Zenyatta - whatever else you may think of her - for doing it for this person. This is why I love horse racing.


If this person's outpouring of love for Zenyatta doesn't melt your heart, it's made of stone. What an incredibly touching story.

How unfortunate that Draynay felt he had to trash this woman's dream in his comment #6. No class.

[PJMIII]

You post shots at everyone Susan, all the time. I am civil to those that are the same. But no problem, I'll go first and try to be the change I want to see here.

You must be kidding. :huh:

[ManOTaz]

Can you please answer who QR's mother has produced other than him? Full sister means NOTHING once they have foals on the ground if those foals aren't up to snuff. Are you really that clueless as to how that works?

Distorted Humor has DaStoops....already has winners on the ground out of his 2 yr old crop....Any Given Saturday, Flower Alley, its No Joke, Sharp Humor......all young sires many people are quite excited about. Not bad for a young sire which Distorted Humor is as far as being a sire of sires...

Elusive Quality has Smarty Jones....not exactly a barn burner on the success scale....he's the same age as Distorted Humor btw....


Who did Nellie Morse produce besides Rachel?

Who did Vertigineux produce besides Zenyatta?

And La Vie En Rouge...who besides Barbaro?

Elusive Quality does not look so bad as a sire to me... :rolleyes:

By Lifetime Earnings

Smarty Jones $7,613,155
Raven's Pass $3,658,556
Quality Road $1,632,830
Maryfield $1,334,331
Elusiveness $599,906
Raihana (Aus) $599,271
Gimmeawink $531,090
Elusive Warning $485,832
Elusive Diva $484,510
Stage Presence (Aus) $455,526

By 2010 Earnings

Quality Road $660,000
=Raihana (AUS) $592,500
=I'm Discreet (AUS) $120,273
West Ocean $111,000
=Stage Presence (AUS) $102,782
=Amedeo (AUS) $101,055
Elusive Warning $98,350
=Will To Win (AUS) $82,531
Pardon $78,998
Starfish Bay $76,191

2010 fee: $75,000 --- which in this economy is nothing to sneeze at...

Certainly he is no Mr. Prospector...

But if you are trying to compare Smarty Jones, Raven's Pass and Quality Road to Any Given Saturday, Flower Alley, its No Joke, and Sharp Humor...well...I think the comparison favors Elusive Quality...

A Kentucky Derby Preakness winner
A BC Classic winner
A multiple Grade I stakes winner who is not done racing...



Conversely, Personal Ensign didn't have to beat a ( male ) Derby and Belmont winner in the same race ..
As well as others in the BCC .

And Gulch, the better of the two Whitney opponents-- was essentially a miler in aptitude .


True, but then we see how those Derby and Belmont winners performed at 10 furlongs on Pro Ride. It was not one of their best performances...

The Derby winner demonstrated in the Classic his continued aversion to the surface despite being tried on it here for his third loss on it.

The Belmont Stakes winner finished a well beaten 4th...in the same position that Curlin did last year and if you look at the two horses...they seemed to finish in an identical manner with their stretch runs...trying earnestly but sponning their wheels to no avail...gaining not one inch over the surface.

As you noted, Personal Ensign struggled over the Churchill surface and still won...

She and Gulch loved the Whitney surface...and Gulch actually was not even a miler...he was a sprinter..though he had won the Met Mile and the 9 furlong Wood Memorial...

Whereas Zenyatta did well on the Pro Ride surface...Summer Bird's first trainer said he did not like it...and his performance certainly did not demonstrate anything more than a tolerance of it...

But then you know all this already... :grin:

[Sheepish]

Who did Nellie Morse produce besides Rachel?


That's Lotta Kim, and that's hardly fair considering Rachel was her first.



Who did Vertigineux produce besides Zenyatta?


Balance, for one. A very useful mare:
At 2:
Won Sharp Cat S. (Hol,8.5F)
2nd Hollywood Starlet S. (G1)
3rd Hidden Light S. (Osa,R,8FT)

At 3:
Won Las Virgenes S. (G1), Santa Anita Oaks (G1)
3rd Ashland S. (G1), La Brea S. (G1)

At 4:
Won Santa Margarita H. (G1), La Canada S. (G2)
2nd Vanity Invitational H. (G1)
3rd Milady Breders' Cup H. (G2,8.5F)



And La Vie En Rouge...who besides Barbaro?


La Ville Rouge, but I'll give you that one. The Barbaro boys seem to have terrible luck.

[carbonite]

I wish Rachel and Zenyatta didn't race so often. The PMS (Pre Mare-racing Syndrome) here seems to get more intense every time.

[ManOTaz]

I wish Rachel and Zenyatta didn't race so often. The PMS (Pre Mare-racing Syndrome) here seems to get more intense every time.


Yeah...6 races in six months...between them is too much of a good thing...for us to handle. :azn:

[Hermes]

You must be kidding. :huh:


No. Well, maybe. Lets see how long I can try to be nice. Whatever line you set, I'd go with the under. Because there will always be posts like yours here that are meant to discourage good intention;)

[forgotten]

ManOT, I don't question that Elusive Quality is a nice sire. We were discussing whether or not he is a sire of sires. The general feeling in the industry is that he may not be a sire of sires. That doesn't detract from his ability to sire a solid racehorse...just whether or not they will go on to being great sires themselves. Right now, Distorted Humor as a slight edge on that and more optimism surrounding this potential as a sire of sires. I'm strictly talking about the real world, not message board alternate reality.

[Native Diver]

It's when Zen and RA have a race on the same weekend that the PMS is so Intense....better make sure I've got Midol and the heating pad is good to go. :undecided:

[weatherbird]

who can keep up?
http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/zenyatta-could-run-in-new-york-maybe/4694/

[forgotten]

That doesn't really sound like they've committed to anything. I still seriously doubt she'll run in NY. Its really of no benefit to her in her path to BCC.

[Huaka]

Do you think Sherriffs is hesitant of sending Zenyatta to New York is because a similar gargantuan Manistique to Saratoga and she lost as the heavy favorite?

[forgotten]

Nope, I think Zenyatta doesn't ship well and they are trying to minimize the wear and tear on her prior to the BCC.

[Huaka]

If they actually do ship to New York, I'd bet they'd go for a filly and mare race. I'd be happy anywhere she races! Even if she does races in the Clement Hirsch, it's great just watching her.

[PJMIII]

No. Well, maybe. Lets see how long I can try to be nice. Whatever line you set, I'd go with the under. Because there will always be posts like yours here that are meant to discourage good intention;)

Nothing can discourage you kiddo. :laugh:

[The Tin Man]

If they actually do ship to New York, I'd bet they'd go for a filly and mare race. I'd be happy anywhere she races! Even if she does races in the Clement Hirsch, it's great just watching her.


My sentiments exactly Huaka!

I don't care where she runs leading up to the Classic ... I'm just gonna enjoy the ride :grin:

But if she runs in the Hirsch ... I'll be there! :cool:

[Rick1323]

Please change the title. I just read 5 pages that contained no Zenyatta news. I'm so glad I went to the track today and avoided this crap.

[SecretariatForever]

Nope, I think Zenyatta doesn't ship well and they are trying to minimize the wear and tear on her prior to the BCC.


Honestly, this could be the case.

[Curlin]

I wish Rachel and Zenyatta didn't race so often. The PMS (Pre Mare-racing Syndrome) here seems to get more intense every time.


I dunno, the middle-aged-crazy male contingent on this board gets pretty testes testy here too.

The very eloquent poster, susan, said it best by dubbing them, sour little pickles. :wink:

[Dusty]

Hopefully back on track - Zen looks fabulous - muscled and dapples all over! Quite the Queen - I wish her the best on SUnday and WILL be there..dang I am getting nervous

[Curlin]

Hopefully back on track - Zen looks fabulous - muscled and dapples all over! Quite the Queen - I wish her the best on SUnday and WILL be there..dang I am getting nervous


The longer she races, the more nervous I become. The Hirsch last year darn near gave me a heart attack.

[DesertHeat]

It seems crazy to me that I get this nervous before every race. I'm so terrified that she might lose one day, not because of her own doing, but because losing happens.... to most other horses, anyway. After every win, it seems she is invincible, immortal... how do I forget that as each next race nears??

[JT Dancer]

I'm flying out today to go see her and am already nervous. By race time, it is conceivable I will have developed an ulcer; I can't wait, though. She's such a superstar.

[honneerider]

To me, Zenyatta epitomizes the excitement of racing.
I am so nervous building up to her races, and only have eyes for her during the running of the race that I never see the rest of the field.
Godspeed to Z. I thank her connections for sharing this magnificent lady with us another year.

[fluffy]

She definitely draws your eyes to only her, doesn't she?

Sending best wishes for a great day Sunday to this special girl.

[luvsgeldings]

i thought my heart was going to jump out of my chest before the classic last year - i was so nervous for zenyatta - but then she goes out there and does her thing so easy that you wonder later why you were ever worried - she inspires confidence - i just wish my nerves would listen - i will be a wreck again tomorrow when she loads in the gate at hollywood. hoping for a win but praying all come back home safe and sound.

[GinTalking]

Please change the title. I just read 5 pages that contained no Zenyatta news. I'm so glad I went to the track today and avoided this crap.


That's why you wait and only read every sixth or seventh page. I stopped reading all the NEW stuff weeks ago .. and honestly, haven't missed an ounce of news. LOL

[Hermes]

Oh I see another page can be skipped that talks about the pages of crap that should be skipped;)

[Hermes]

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=113812&subs=0&arc=0

John Shirreffs, Zenyatta's trainer, is the control freak at the center of the storm. He was asked one morning this week if maybe things weren't getting a little boring, after running the mare 16 times and having the same old thing happen each and every time. Obviously, training Zenyatta has become no more challenging than turning on the barn lights.

"Are you kidding?" Shirreffs shot back. "A big mare like her, there have been things to deal with. The mental challenges alone have been considerable."

Citing trainer-trainee privilege, Shirreffs declined to expand on any physical hurdles Zenyatta may have faced during her 31 months in competition, although it is broadly known that her summers at Del Mar have not been exactly a day at the beach. There is a reason Zenyatta will remain at Hollywood Park this year after the meet closes, even though the Hirsch at Del Mar is tentatively on her schedule.

As for Zenyatta's psychological baggage, she has reached the midpoint of her 6-year-old season still preferring to run sideways in the mornings rather than straight ahead. She will protest, in various ways, even the slightest departures from established procedures. In the afternoons, her goose-stepping post parades are a physical transference of bottled anxieties, which are eventually soothed by her unhurried but carefully orchestrated stroll to the post, while the others gallop and jog. For the crowd, it's just good theater.

"We learned that absolutely everything with her has to be part of a strict routine," Shirreffs said. "We found that she'd get too worked up if you warmed her up, so we decided to pick a spot where she could walk and then stand and be calm and relaxed. We chose the quarter pole."

[Faith]

A Hall of Fame horseman once told me, "Good horses are more often than not their own worst enemies."

In this case, he could not have been more right. She is most certainly a handful of diva.

[Hermes]

Her half sister Balance was a terror. High strung doesn't begin to define that one. Sounds like JS walks a high wire with Z indeed.

[Faith]

Her half sister Balance was a terror. High strung doesn't begin to define that one. Sounds like JS walks a high wire with Z indeed.


Balance lunged at me once. Lunged! From the back of her stall as I was walking by.

I thought, "what did I ever do to you?"

Zenyatta is more of a snuggler which seems very contrary to her diva ways. John's assistant said in the mornings when she goes in to check her legs she takes her nose and feels around in her pockets, up in her neck behind her hair, etc. Pretty cute.

[fluffy]

Whatever it takes to make the big mare happy & content is all that I can hope for; and it seems that her "people" take care to make that all happen. I thank them for letting us be a part of the time that is Zenyatta.

No ulterior motives/why they brought her back in 2010/I really don't care...just that she is and has been a grand part of racing and what will ultimately go down in history as someone very special. Quotes from last November and the trainers, etc (people in the business who KNOW what they're talking about, not just US) and they were in awe and glad that they got to see her then. Some even pulling for her :grin:

What works for one doesn't always work for another; and who can say without a doubt how she would have been for ALL of these wins if she'd not been handled as well as she has been managed. I could care less who could/might/can beat Zenyatta--all I know is that they haven't yet.

Your sister might be the prettiest girl in the small town-but maybe if sis goes across the world then she'd be just another pretty girl...but until that is PROVEN- sis is just as pretty as the next pretty girl. AND Zenyatta is just as good as the next UNDEFEATED mare at this time.

She may have not been making mud pies during the trip but she's laid down every single step that the others have taken; whatever the surface and whatever showed up to take her on. And though some said that they would, they didn't. Not her problem, and certainly not ours armchair training.

If/when a defeat for her ever comes--then it will have come. Until then, I am enjoying perfection. I don't even care that she's undefeated. But, she IS perfect. However it has come, it IS. Like it or not. She has done it.

(AND I was truly glad to see Rachel win today. It hurt me to see her running 2nd though she wasn't that far off in her first two of 2010. I love the horses and could care less about the politics and the fusses.)

[Dusty]

Whatever it takes to make the big mare happy & content is all that I can hope for; and it seems that her "people" take care to make that all happen. I thank them for letting us be a part of the time that is Zenyatta.

No ulterior motives/why they brought her back in 2010/I really don't care...just that she is and has been a grand part of racing and what will ultimately go down in history as someone very special. Quotes from last November and the trainers, etc (people in the business who KNOW what they're talking about, not just US) and they were in awe and glad that they got to see her then. Some even pulling for her :grin:

What works for one doesn't always work for another; and who can say without a doubt how she would have been for ALL of these wins if she'd not been handled as well as she has been managed. I could care less who could/might/can beat Zenyatta--all I know is that they haven't yet.

Your sister might be the prettiest girl in the small town-but maybe if sis goes across the world then she'd be just another pretty girl...but until that is PROVEN- sis is just as pretty as the next pretty girl. AND Zenyatta is just as good as the next UNDEFEATED mare at this time.

She may have not been making mud pies during the trip but she's laid down every single step that the others have taken; whatever the surface and whatever showed up to take her on. And though some said that they would, they didn't. Not her problem, and certainly not ours armchair training.

If/when a defeat for her ever comes--then it will have come. Until then, I am enjoying perfection. I don't even care that she's undefeated. But, she IS perfect. However it has come, it IS. Like it or not. She has done it.

(AND I was truly glad to see Rachel win today. It hurt me to see her running 2nd though she wasn't that far off in her first two of 2010. I love the horses and could care less about the politics and the fusses.)


Very well said - I will be there to root her on! I thank the Mosses - who I think are a class act - and will do what is right for the Big Z

[luvsgeldings]

cannot wait to head to hollywood park today and watch the big girl in the paddock and on the track - just a really fun time every time - and hey, zenyatta supports old friends! - they will be selling zenyatta jersey's today at the track that will benefit the retired horses at old friends - i love that zen does so much for other animals - truly a classy mare and classy people around her - its a true joy to support this glorious horse and her connections.

[PJMIII]

Zenyatta no sure thing this time

Zenyatta might be greatest mare who ever raced, she probably is the best horse in the country, and she certainly has captured the hearts of California fans.

Yet when the towering 6-year-old seeks a record 17th consecutive victory Sunday at Hollywood Park, there is one thing Zenyatta is not. She is not a cinch.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/113844.html

[luvsgeldings]

i have been reading and hearing this a lot lately... while no win is ever a sure thing, zenyatta inspires confidence when you see her - i think mike has to be smart with her though - i don't doubt zen's talent or heart - she will always come running - but no matter the outcome today, as long as she comes back safe and sound (and all the horses do the same), it will be a great day - she has been such fun and so unique to observe, a loss will never erase any of that - but heck yeah we want to see her get her 17th today in front of her home crowd - good luck today zenyatta - your loyal fans love ya and always will!!!

[Majella from Ireland]

Every single horse that puts hoof on a track can be beaten. If Zen is beaten today there will be no shame in it. I'll be cheering for Zen no matter what the outcome and I just hope she, and all the others, come back safe and sound! :grin:

[GinTalking]

What's interesting is that both these DRF articles are written by Californians ... not Easterners with a bone to pick.

I haven't seen anything yet that tells me that either Zardana or St Trinians have a good chance to beat Zenyatta. Zardana beat Rachel in a first race off a long layoff and then lost to her so it's not as if she set the world on fire with her two trips East. What is in these stories that was not reported is that it was Zardana's work, not the shipping plans, that determined she would not go East. Previously, it was reported that her shipping plans fell through. I kind of didn't buy that shipping from L.A. to N.Y. was much of a problem, but at least now we know that they didn't want to ship her as scheduled because of a fast work. That makes much more sense to me. Still, I don't see wonder horse written all over her.

As for the other mare, is she really this good that the people who are most likely to be in Zenyatta's corner are questioning whether Zen can beat her? Maybe this is a reflex ... setting themselves up for a loss when no loss will occur.

The one thing I do agree with is ... there is no such thing as a lock, a sure thing. Never has been one, never will be one. Any horse can lose a race they were supposed to win. So from that standpoint, one always worries about things that are out of your control. You think you are good to go going in ... but when the gate opens, aren't there a hundred things that COULD go wrong. You always hope they don't, but you never really know and you have no control over what other horses do.

I was watching a race at Golden Gate yesterday afternoon/last evening and the race caller pointed out that it was a good thing that So and So was outside another horse because the last time the horse ran, it had gone into the infield to take a swim. Once he said something, I remembered that race. That's certainly something no one with even the wildest imagination would ever anticipate prior to a race, and yet it happened. There are tons of ways to lose races. I'd be very surprised if Zenyatta lost this one today ... but you never know. Who thought Bailey would go after Dare and Go?

[luvsgeldings]

egads gin you are right... i hope mike runs a smart race today.

[seahawkgal]

While Zardana and St. Trinians are nice horses, they would need to put more than 130 on Zenyatta's back to even this field out. That weight won't matter to a horse of her size and strength. She will get them at the wire, per her usual performance.

[luvsgeldings]

well tvg showed zen schooling in the paddock a couple of days ago and she looked like her usual dappled awesome self - as long as she is still happy doing her thing, thats all that matters - she doesn't care what is written about her or the weight assignments - she just wants to pass any and all horses that are in front of her in the stretch.

[Huaka]

I wonder why people never include Silent Witness on their list of win streaks. He won 17 in a row in some top class turf sprint races. I thought that would garner a few mentions but he doesn't even have data on pedigreequery or included on wikipedia for their win streak list. O_O.

[GinTalking]

I wonder why people never include Silent Witness on their list of win streaks. He won 17 in a row in some top class turf sprint races. I thought that would garner a few mentions but he doesn't even have data on pedigreequery or included on wikipedia for their win streak list. O_O.


Interesting. I know why he's not included in the BRIS or Equibase database ... he never raced here and I believe you have to make at least one start here to be included.

Pedigree Query isn't a really legit site as the data is entered by anyone, right. Am I right that you now submit the info and someone monitors it to make sure it's correct before it's put up on the site? If you have the info, enter it. Then it would be there for everyone.

[carbonite]

What is in these stories that was not reported is that it was Zardana's work, not the shipping plans, that determined she would not go East. Previously, it was reported that her shipping plans fell through. I kind of didn't buy that shipping from L.A. to N.Y. was much of a problem, but at least now we know that they didn't want to ship her as scheduled because of a fast work. That makes much more sense to me.


It was reported, Gin. I know you have a tendency not to actually read articles when they are linked, so you may have missed it:


Shirreffs had hoped to start Zardana in the Grade 1 Ogden Phipps Handicap at Belmont Park on Saturday, but said he was not happy with potential shipping arrangements.

Zardana worked five furlongs in 58.80 seconds on Sunday, the fastest of 55 works at the distance. Shirreffs said the fast workout, and complications with travel, made shipping to New York a hardship. "She worked too fast to ship across the country and be settled," he said.
http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=113743&subs=0&arc=1

[Harrison Bergeron]

Pedigree Query isn't a really legit site as the data is entered by anyone, right. Am I right that you now submit the info and someone monitors it to make sure it's correct before it's put up on the site? If you have the info, enter it. Then it would be there for everyone.


They've had to lock certain horses due to morons posting garbage on the site. Only a moderator can change them at that point.

[Curlin]

Zenyatta is more of a snuggler which seems very contrary to her diva ways. John's assistant said in the mornings when she goes in to check her legs she takes her nose and feels around in her pockets, up in her neck behind her hair, etc. Pretty cute.


That's funny, because when I fed her carrots after the 2008 Lady's Secret, she was poking around in my handbag to see if I had anything more to eat in there. I guess a big mare needs a big after-race snack. :wink:

[luvsgeldings]

oh you lucky ladies who have gotten up close and personal with the lovely mare - i can only gaze adoringly at her from the rails... and i do it happily - hey its an honor just to meet her gaze for a beautiful moment - but oh to say you touched her and had that personal connection with her, well thats beyond special and a memory for a lifetime.

[Huaka]

I read on a forum that said she was making lots of noise when she had her last workout, which she's never done before. Is that true?

[Faith]

I read on a forum that said she was making lots of noise when she had her last workout, which she's never done before. Is that true?


Not a sound. That was a lie.

[Huaka]

Oh, okay. That's good! ^^;;. I think my nerves are shot getting so nervous waiting for her to race.

[halo]

I heard the same thing, from someone who would know.

[Faith]

I heard the same thing, from someone who would know.


Well, standing there I heard nothing. And neither did the six people standing next to me.

Some people reported the work right in this very thread, too, and funny how none mentioned it.

I say it 'cause it didn't happen.

[carbonite]

Yeah, that's the story going around now. Why do you say it's a lie, Faith?

Sorry, our posts crossed. You were there when she came off the track?

[halo]

This person was also there and also heard her making a bit of a sound that she hadnt made before.

[Faith]

This person was also there and also heard her making a bit of a sound that she hadnt made before.


I've seen her in person maybe, I don't know, 50 times? Several were for works. She sounded no different in this last work than the 20 or so before then. Or her 16 races of which I've been to 12.

I hate all this BS talk. I wouldn't stand for it for any horse. Ridiculous.

[Curlin]

This person was also there and also heard her making a bit of a sound that she hadnt made before.


The sound she was making was the blowing of raspberries at her upcoming competition. :wink:

[SecretariatForever]

I heard the same thing, from someone who would know.


Who is this someone?

I think Faith is a pretty reliable source and obviously knows Zenyatta as much as just a fan can considering she just said she has been to 12 of her races and has been to many of her workouts.

[Ruby 8.0]

I don't have cable or digital t.v.-is there a livestream link for seeing the race on computer? I found a link for 30 min. of sports, free, through ESPN.com, but it was broken. I am a little lost in the Hollywood Park website, looking for it there. Any help appreciated. Thanks.

[halo]

Well, I havent seen her, Im on the East Coast. But when I get a phone call from a friend of mine who is at the track every day, and he just mentions in passing that he saw Zenyatta work, and was making some noise, I have no reason not to believe him. Horses make noise all the time, Ive had horses make noise in the morning, put them in a race, and they are fine.

If he said it, Ill believe him.

[Huaka]

I don't have cable or digital t.v.-is there a livestream link for seeing the race on computer? I found a link for 30 min. of sports, free, through ESPN.com, but it was broken. I am a little lost in the Hollywood Park website, looking for it there. Any help appreciated. Thanks.


You can try calracing and the NTRA website. They both have free streaming for her race.

[SecretariatForever]

Well, I havent seen her, Im on the East Coast. But when I get a phone call from a friend of mine who is at the track every day, and he just mentions in passing that he saw Zenyatta work, and was making some noise, I have no reason not to believe him. Horses make noise all the time, Ive had horses make noise in the morning, put them in a race, and they are fine.

If he said it, Ill believe him.


Just like you said, horses make all kinds of noises all the time. Zenyatta is known for snorting, and making noises actually as Mike Smith has said she does all the time.

If it was something major
A. I'm sure more than one person, and Faith would have heard it.
B. They would not be letting her race today.

[Faith]

Well, I havent seen her, Im on the East Coast. But when I get a phone call from a friend of mine who is at the track every day, and he just mentions in passing that he saw Zenyatta work, and was making some noise, I have no reason not to believe him. Horses make noise all the time, Ive had horses make noise in the morning, put them in a race, and they are fine.

If he said it, Ill believe him.


Dude, she barely took a deep breath. Funny noise? Hardly.

I've heard her grunt before, but no "funny noises" while at full speed.

Her work was on Monday. Today is Sunday. Wouldn't this big, bad noise have made ALL the boards several days ago?

If there was noise, it was coming from the sound as she whooshed by her workmate.

[carbonite]

I'm not sure, but I believe one of the clocker reports (Thoroughbred Digest?) made note of it.

[Faith]

I'm not sure, but I believe one of the clocker reports (Thoroughbred Digest?) made note of it.


Not on today's sheet apparently.

[Hermes]

The noise is going to be the deafening sound of silence if she loses today. And either way I predict this is her last race. Lets hope (as many of you always do) that I am wrong.

Z has never failed to overcome rumor and speculation that she is not at her best, though.

[Faith]

The noise is going to be the deafening sound of silence if she loses today. And either way I predict this is her last race. Lets hope (as many of you always do) that I am wrong.

Z has never failed to overcome rumor and speculation that she is not at her best, though.


Why do you predict that? Just for argument's sake, will you fill me in? I don't think I've read that from you before.

And I gtg. Post time in an hour and a half and I'm still sitting here at my computer. See you all later.

[CoronadosQuest]

The noise is going to be the deafening sound of silence if she loses today. And either way I predict this is her last race. Lets hope (as many of you always do) that I am wrong.

Z has never failed to overcome rumor and speculation that she is not at her best, though.


You think she is going to lose? I just can't see her losing. I see her winning by about a length, give or take a bit, with her ears pricked and then she dances back to the winner's circle like she always does. I really think the only horse who can beat her out west is Rail Trip.

[halo]

Actually, its not a big bad noise. Its a very subtle wheezing that horsemen would notice. I was just sent a link to a video of the work, and yes, she is making a slight noise. I would have to think that since this was just noted, that it is something new. Its probably nothing, she'll probably air today as she always does.

I would be very surprised if she wasnt scoped after this work. Could have had some pharyngitis, some mucous, any of some minor issues.

Probably no one would have even noticed this with an ordinary horse, but she is so micro-watched that its not a surprise it was noted.

[Huaka]

^ Could I see the link?

[SecretariatForever]

^ Could I see the link?


I'd like too aswell.

[Rick1323]

Fabrication.....there is no link.

[Hermes]

Fabrication.....there is no link.


You mean like your "friend" out there fabricated injury for her last year?
Just saying, Halo's info is no more legit, accurate, or not than anyone else's rumors or observations.
Unless you wanted a link to a mistake riddled Blood Horse or Ny Times article?

[halo]

I hesitate to put this out there, because 99% of you wont know what you are hearing, but here it is:

http://www.focusedfilly.com/2010/06/02/zenyatta/

[Somnambulist]

I'm with Hermes. There are a lot of people who fabricate things, but I don't think halo is one of them. halo's been around a long time, and I don't recall any boo-boo's.

[GinTalking]

You think she is going to lose? I just can't see her losing. I see her winning by about a length, give or take a bit, with her ears pricked and then she dances back to the winner's circle like she always does. I really think the only horse who can beat her out west is Rail Trip.


I have no opinion on that comment ... but if I were to guess, I think it could come after a win or a loss. A loss because the streak is over. A win because she will have gotten the record. But again, that's pure speculation on someone else's speculation. :wink:

[Huaka]

That's an old work. The one where she dusted Aitcho. Not her recent one. She had TWO workmates with her in that one.

[Rick1323]

You mean like your "friend" out there fabricated injury for her last year?
Just saying, Halo's info is no more legit, accurate, or not than anyone else's rumors or observations.
Unless you wanted a link to a mistake riddled Blood Horse or Ny Times article?


Your right. And so is Halo....I have no idea what I am listening for. I actually used to pay that "friend" for information when I was playing a lot of So Cal Pick 6s. We parted ways.

[Hermes]

I have no opinion on that comment ... but if I were to guess, I think it could come after a win or a loss. A loss because the streak is over. A win because she will have gotten the record. But again, that's pure speculation on someone else's speculation. :wink:

This is said well Gin.
If I had to bet head to head, I'd say she will win as she always does. But I am picking ST to upset today.

[SecretariatForever]

I hesitate to put this out there, because 99% of you wont know what you are hearing, but here it is:

http://www.focusedfilly.com/2010/06/02/zenyatta/


It went from it being an obvious noise to here's the link "99% of you wont know what you are hearing" in other words...you probably won't hear anything but it's just because you don't know what to listen for. *rolls eyes*


P.S. The mind can play tricks on you. You look hard enough for something..well there's a saying about it. But it doesn't mean it's really there. It's all in your mind.

[Somnambulist]

P.S. The mind can play tricks on you. You look hard enough for something..well there's a saying about it. But it doesn't mean it's really there. It's all in your mind.


Ok this is a little ridiculous. What you wrote is truth, but it's one thing to have a healthy skepticism, and another to be way rude about it.

[GinTalking]

That's a pretty bizarre 'work' by the workmate. The rider was practically ... not practically, was ... standing up for the whole work. If that's Aitcho, no wonder he ran last yesterday. Probably thought trailing the field was how he was supposed to do it.

[halo]

As I said, Im not there. People who I know and trust are there.

[Jinx]

You (predictably) miss the point, Monmouth Guy.

There is a geographical distance between east and west, and a significant difference in what is required in terms of travel, going from either location to the midwest. The primary point is not that Cigar didn't travel--he did. But he was located in the East, and he actually did relatively little cross-country travel.

His base was Belmont and Gulfstream in the winter. The ship from Gulfstream to Oaklawn is a fairly routine one, remaining within one (southern) region. The ship to Pimlico in one direction or to Suffolk in the other is a van ride. Prior to his '95 Horse of the Year award, he had one significant ship, cross-country to Hollywood. The following year he had the big ship to Dubai, then came home for a van-up to the MassCap. He then embarked on his cross-country ship that was designed to get him a stopover halfway in Chicago with a specially-written race before doing the second half of the ship to Del Mar (Paulson's home track), and then returning to New York. If Paulson had not been living at Del Mar, that trip would never have occurred, and to make it happen, they wanted a place to go along the way. He won one of his two cross-country ships, and he won 2 of his five final starts during the sequence that began with the ship to Arlington. In the fifteen months from the time Mott got him, until he was named Horse of the Year, he started 16 times, 12 of them in New York or Florida, depending on where he was based at the time; and of the four ships, only one--the cross-country ship to the Hollywood Gold Cup--was a major transport.

Nothing that I have read thus far about Zenyatta indicates anything other than what seemed most likely with this cockamamey idea of keeping her in training for another year: try to ship and face Rachel early (which Rachel predictably avoided) then try to hold her together over the summer, so you still have something in the tank to wind up when you have to ship in the fall. Depending on what the year looks like once you get to September, you have to decide if you want to ship east for a race before the Breeders Cup or let it all ride on one last bullet in Louisville. But from day one, this campaign has never made a lot of sense to me as anything other than people having a hard time letting go of a career that they feel (I think rightly) has been undervalued.

I think that they have done a remarkable job with a remarkable mare.


I agree.

What I don't understand is how anyone on here who has witnessed what Rachel's 2009 campaign did to her in terms of 2010 would wish that on Zenyatta. I think Zenyatta's connections are thinking about her well-being. Maybe they were honestly planning to ship her around until they saw how RA was struggling to get her mojo back and then Z dehydrated on her trip to Oaklawn and they said the heck with that idea. Obviously, they don't want to do to her what happened to Rachel...where test after test after test took its toll. I think they consider Z more of a pet than a trophy and they are treating her accordingly. Rather than being wasted, I think she's being carefully managed to make it through this season in one piece. Remember she is 6 and at that age a mare can start tailing off.

[SecretariatForever]

Ok this is a little ridiculous. What you wrote is truth, but it's one thing to have a healthy skepticism, and another to be way rude about it.


Not trying to be rude. It was not a personal attack.

[CoronadosQuest]

I heard a snorting/panting dog noise. Thats all.

[Huaka]

Isn't that the normal noise they make when they inhale/exhale air galloping?

[Rick1323]

I heard a snorting/panting dog noise. Thats all.


Trying to control myself.

[Ruby 8.0]

:smiley: (from two pages ago) THANK YOU, Huaka! I'm in, and camped at the computer with a nice Sudoku for the meantime!

[Huaka]

:smiley: (from two pages ago) THANK YOU, Huaka! I'm in, and camped at the computer with a nice Sudoku for the meantime!


No problem! Sudoku rocks. :grin:

[SecretariatForever]

Isn't that the normal noise they make when they inhale/exhale air galloping?


I've been told it's when they settle into a rhythm.

[second_glance]

That's a pretty bizarre 'work' by the workmate. The rider was practically ... not practically, was ... standing up for the whole work. If that's Aitcho, no wonder he ran last yesterday. Probably thought trailing the field was how he was supposed to do it.


Yeah. It's pretty easy to "dust" a horse that isn't being allowed to run.

[CoronadosQuest]

Trying to control myself.


:P

[carbonite]

It probably would have been easier to hear if there was something to be concerned about if they could have gotten that third-rate lounge singer to shut up.

[islandgirl45]

It probably would have been easier to hear if there was something to be concerned about if they could have gotten that third-rate lounge singer to shut up.


No wonder they put cotton in her ears during her workouts! :wink:

[BigCountry]

It probably would have been easier to hear if there was something to be concerned about if they could have gotten that third-rate lounge singer to shut up.

Or, ya' know, one of the most popular music/entertainment acts in the country. Same thing.

[Ruby 8.0]

Good grief, livestreaming websites jammed. :sad: Will wait to get result of race from y'all.

[Sheepish]

I am so freaking nervous.

[personalensign79]

I am so freaking nervous.


Me too, I keep fidgeting and drinking more wine. lol

[Sheepish]

Christ, that was a scary race. Love that St Trinians, she almost had it, but Z made it at the last second. Jeez, my hands are shaking!

[Minersmarq]

holy freakin near photo batman!

[GinTalking]

Well worth it!

[Hermes]

Wow. I thought she wasn't going to catch her. And I bet ST. And then as Z galloped out I realized I had tears on my cheek. She and the emotions she stirs in humans is one of the rarest things I have seen in racing.

But on the replay it is never in doubt. Smith just said ST "Ran her eyeballs out."
I don't understand why they won't run her against Rail Trip.

[GreenasGrass]

God Good. That was a race! Ok, and I thought I was too young for near cardiac arrest. Attsa gal, Z.

[personalensign79]

I've never felt this much emotion watching a horse before. Zenyatta!

[Draynay]

Very good win but all out to catch THAT horse at the wire ? Stay in California Zenyatta. :wink:

[Hermes]

Very good win but all out to catch THAT horse at the wire ? Stay in California Zenyatta. :wink:


You are the biggest A$$HOLE in the world. Congrats.
She wasn't all out, but you clearly are to win the Troll Classic by open lengths.

[susan]

I have never seen Z move better moving in the post parade and running ... Sore, my arse ...

She gave me a major panic attack, but she did it .. Dramarama extreme ...

I have to say that I have always been a fan of St. Trinians, and the little eggbeater ran brilliantly and went down in defeat so gamely ....

[personalensign79]

Some people just can't enjoy what is beautiful about these horses and horse racing and that's sad for them.

[Commentator]

Very good win but all out to catch THAT horse at the wire ? Stay in California Zenyatta. :wink:
The horse that you said "should" win? Can't have it both ways. Dude.

Anyways. I've always kind of been skeptical of the idea that certain horses are better at finding the wire than others- not so much after today. She just knows how to win, no matter what. With her running style, it just shouldn't be possible.

[littlelate]

I'm going back to offering Vic a large sum of money in unmarked bills to ban this fellow =( Disagreeing is one thing but blatant hatred towards everyone in every single post is too much. I'm willing to bet Hastings was a kinder soul.

After this, I'm not scared of anyone anymore. She knows how to win. And give people heart attacks. (Edit) Oh, and expose dray for the retard that he is.

[GinTalking]

Not a knock at all ... no way ...

but do some of you really think she wasn't all out today? She has her style ... she covers ground like a real amazon ... but I can't believe she could run THAT much faster to the wire unless she has a Lamborghini engine embedded inside her body.

Just because a horse wins a race doesn't mean they are having an easy time of it.

[Draynay]

You are the biggest A$$HOLE in the world. Congrats.
She wasn't all out, but you clearly are to win the Troll Classic by open lengths.


Call it like I see it. 149+ was slow and she was all out to catch her at the wire. St. Trinians is no Quality Road or Rachel. She needs to stay in California.

[Ballerina]

Congrats to Zenyatta fans everywhere. She was vulnerable today, but she triumphed. Good for her!

[ElPrado]

Oh Drano.... I thought St Trinians was guaranteed to win? Are you having a temper tantrum? Are all your bets this bad? :cheesy:

[Roc525]

Not a knock at all ... no way ...

but do some of you really think she wasn't all out today? She has her style ... she covers ground like a real amazon ... but I can't believe she could run THAT much faster to the wire unless she has a Lamborghini engine embedded inside her body.

Just because a horse wins a race doesn't mean they are having an easy time of it.


I agree Gin. For instance, I don't think she would've beat Rail Trip yesterday. Just my opinion.

[personalensign79]

Oh Drano.... I thought St Trinians was guaranteed to win? Are you having a temper tantrum? Are all your bets this bad? :cheesy:


lol let's hope so...come on down to Tampa Bay Downs this winter and do us all a favor with your wagering. Opening a strip joint in Tampa?! Hilariously not a surprise, you will fit right in this tacky town.


hats off to St Trinians though!

[carbonite]

Call it like I see it.

I believe you.

I don't think a lot of your eye, but I believe you.

[CoronadosQuest]

Not a knock at all ... no way ...

but do some of you really think she wasn't all out today? She has her style ... she covers ground like a real amazon ... but I can't believe she could run THAT much faster to the wire unless she has a Lamborghini engine embedded inside her body.

Just because a horse wins a race doesn't mean they are having an easy time of it.


Yea all the articles Ive read that have just been posted say that she was all out. I believe it. She was digging deep to get those final strides of St Trin, who was running her eyeballs out.

[forgotten]

Not a knock at all ... no way ...

but do some of you really think she wasn't all out today? She has her style ... she covers ground like a real amazon ... but I can't believe she could run THAT much faster to the wire unless she has a Lamborghini engine embedded inside her body.

Just because a horse wins a race doesn't mean they are having an easy time of it.


I think she was all out the final furlong. I don't recall ever seeing Smith have to get into her like that either. The difference with a horse with her running style is they aren't all out every step of the way. They relax at the back and then close with their big kicks. Yes, today she had to lay down a lot more than she has in a long while, but I don't think it will cost her like it costs a front end runner to set a pressured pace and then be all out to hang on. Just my experience and certainly not a judgement on either style of runner.

[PJMIII]

Zenyatta Stands Alone With Record 17th Win

The remarkable Zenyatta stands alone. Thrilling another crowd with her spine-tingling late charge, the undefeated mare nabbed a determined St Trinians by a half-length for her 17th consecutive victory in the June 13 Vanity Handicap (gr. I) at Hollywood Park.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57479/zenyatta-stands-alone-with-record-17th-win

[littlelate]

I don't care that she was all out. When she's all out, she's FAST. And that's what matters; when you go, can you go in time? She can. She always has.

[ezgoerbaby]

She looked all out and I'm not so sure she woulda beat RT yesterday, BUT how often do you see an all out horse with a cocked ear? Usually you see ears pinned and I dont think she would've blown out a candle when she came back, but Ive only looked at it once...will look at it a few more times on DVR over the next couple of days.

[Dave in TJMex]

Weight stops a freight train, the old horse racing line goes.

Weight almost stopped Zenyatta today.

She may no longer be good enough to give pretty good horses like Saint Trinian 9 pounds.

She needs to fine some straight weight for age races or run against the boys, where they will give HER weight.

Glad she won. :smiley:

[mege23]

Call it like I see it. 149+ was slow and she was all out to catch her at the wire. St. Trinians is no Quality Road or Rachel. She needs to stay in California.


And what was Quality Road carrying in weight for the Metropolitan? 124

How much for the Donn? 123

And please, Rachel? It took a field of grade three fillies (at best, for that distance) for her to get a win in, and she certainly wasn't carrying 129 pounds when she did it. So far this year, she hasn't shown the brilliance displayed in last year's Mother Goose or Kentucky Oaks . . . We'll see how she does, but thus far she hasn't been too inspiring.

--Not saying they wouldn't be a challenge, but I'd say you're over-blowing at least a bit. Let me know when Quality Road has to give away 9 pounds to an unquestionably talented grade one winning rival -- and still wins in a hot time.

What's more, times east coast to west don't always line up quite right. Belmont has been playing hot so far this season -- except for First Dude and company . . . Wait, wasn't he supposed to be the next Secretariat? Guess Zenyatta must be quivering at the very thought of him . . . :shocked:

[bulldog]

The only reason I don't think she was all out is her ears. Watch the race again. Her ears are flopping around in the stretch. Then look at St T's ears.....she was all out. Who knows?! But, what I do know is that anyone who works with animals knows that it is highly unusual for any animal to win 10 in a row let alone 17 at any level. Ron Ellis said after the race that he was in no hurry to take on Z with Rail Trip....but I bet all these arm chair trainers know better than him. The other scenario that all this brings to mind is Sunday Silence and Easy Goer. If I am not mistaken EG was running 110-115 Beyers and SS was running 90 something beyers..... we all know who won most of the races when they met. I am really sad for the people who can't awknowledge greatness when they see it. Rachel is great.... So is Zenyatta.

[forgotten]

Look at it this way, if they are all still around in November and opt for The Distaff over The Classic, it might be the first time that people are more interested in The Distaff on both cards.....it certainly would be an amazing race to have RA, St T and Z in the gates.

[Draynay]

The only reason I don't think she was all out is her ears. Watch the race again. Her ears are flopping around in the stretch. Then look at St T's ears.....she was all out. Who knows?! But, what I do know is that anyone who works with animals knows that it is highly unusual for any animal to win 10 in a row let alone 17 at any level. Ron Ellis said after the race that he was in no hurry to take on Z with Rail Trip....but I bet all these arm chair trainers know better than him. The other scenario that all this brings to mind is Sunday Silence and Easy Goer. If I am not mistaken EG was running 110-115 Beyers and SS was running 90 something beyers..... we all know who won most of the races when they met. I am really sad for the people who can't awknowledge greatness when they see it. Rachel is great.... So is Zenyatta.


Dude stop it !!! She was all out getting whipped and all and for what ? To catch the mighty St. Trinians .... lol.... trust me she needs to stay in California and race the girls. The boys would whip her good. 149+ doesn't do anyone any good and Quality Road could walk that fast....tell me when QR EVER ran 1 1/8th that sloooowwww

[forgotten]

Tell me when QR carried that much weight or gave up that much to any horse that was a legit threat.....

[mege23]

Dude stop it !!! She was all out getting whipped and all and for what ? To catch the mighty St. Trinians .... lol.... trust me she needs to stay in California and race the girls. The boys would whip her good. 149+ doesn't do anyone any good and Quality Road could walk that fast....tell me when QR EVER ran 1 1/8th that sloooowwww



Yeah, sure. Quality Road could walk that fast carrying 129 pounds, on a track that isn't goosed -- not. Oh, and Quality Road's splits for 1 1/8 in the JCGC and Travers were both slower than 1:49.

And the dis against St Trinians is really low -- way to talk about a fast grade one winner who ran her guts out today. I'd take a bet on her against QR at 1 1/16-- especially if he's giving 9 pounds.

[ckmiller56]

Dude stop it !!!

That's all we're asking you to do.

[Minersmarq]

And if you idiots would quit feeding the dumbass, he might stop

[littlelate]

S'ok guys; I PM'd Vic a plate of cookies. Hopefully she'll call an extreminator. Or get her shoe. But why ruin a good shoe on this scrub? If anyone's all out, it's this guy struggling to reason why the win means nothing, when it means everything. I've never hated QR, never licked his hooves either. But if dray doesn't vanish soon, I'll root to the end for anyone to beat him, just to taste dray's delicious tears.

Marq; ignoring does nothing. He'll troll and puke in our shoes til he gets the plug pulled which hopefully will be soon. Rainbows and kitties don't usually solve the problem =(

[Chiefs Crown]

All the bickering instead of just enjoying this mare. One for the ages. Zenyatta, another wow performance today.

What a great weekend of racing. Zenyatta. Rachel. Blame. Rail Trip. A fabulous weekend to be a racing fan.

[Draynay]

Yeah, sure. Quality Road could walk that fast carrying 129 pounds, on a track that isn't goosed -- not. Oh, and Quality Road's splits for 1 1/8 in the JCGC and Travers were both slower than 1:49.

And the dis against St Trinians is really low -- way to talk about a fast grade one winner who ran her guts out today. I'd take a bet on her against QR at 1 1/16-- especially if he's giving 9 pounds.


You know what they say.... there's a sucker born every minute.... :cheesy:

Come on keep it real.... she was all out getting whipped again and again to catch St. Trinians ??? Do you really think she could ever catch top males on dirt when she had to get whipped to catch that little horse ? Geez.

[islandgirl45]

You are the biggest A$$HOLE in the world. Congrats.
She wasn't all out, but you clearly are to win the Troll Classic by open lengths.


Now, that was funny.