Champion 3yo filly

Somnambulist
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:49 pm

I still think Sylmar gets it. You can look at this track and see that she's probably wasn't going to close well.

Hope you're buying the beer V. All Eclipse award discussions should never be held sober :)
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Somnambulist
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:58 pm

I actually liked Beholder a ton here. I think she's been a little forgotten all year long. Her race in the Oaks was great, and she's looked like a beatess all week long to me.

Personally I think she should get it, but I'm not sure how they'll vote.
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Miss Woodford
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:02 pm

Has any filly won the Kentucky Oaks, CCAO and Alabama and NOT won the 3yo filly championship? And the Beldame to boot?

The only time Beholder ventured out of California, she lost, to Princess of Sylmar. Both fillies have 4 G1 wins this year, but the Distaff is Beholder's only win at 9 furlongs. The Princess has multiple G1 wins at 9 furlongs AND at 10 furlongs. I think the Princess has shown more versatility and while it's close, she narrowly beats out Beholder for Champion 3yo Filly.
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Life At Zen
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:02 pm

Still think it should go to Princess of Sylmar.
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BaroqueAgain1
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:05 pm

The problem for the Princess is the fact that Royal Delta finished OTB today. That makes the Princess's win over RD in the Beldame look less impressive. Up against a small but good field today, she finished behind the longshot Street Girl.
IMO, Beholder has finished her season so strongly that it's hard not to reward her.
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Miss Woodford
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:09 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:The problem for the Princess is the fact that Royal Delta finished OTB today. That makes the Princess's win over RD in the Beldame look less impressive. Up against a small but good field today, she finished behind the longshot Street Girl.
IMO, Beholder has finished her season so strongly that it's hard not to reward her.
Neither of them seemed like themselves today, though.
Tessablue
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:15 pm

I think it depends on what happens tomorrow. If every single non-Marathon BC winner races on the front or closeup on the outside, and if horses coming from off the pace continue to spin their wheels in the stretch, there will probably be support for the idea that Princess had no chance and her connections shouldn't be punished for being sporting. And yes, I know that track condition on one day may not affect it on another, but I'm talking psychology here.

Personally, I have no preference either way. Can see the argument for both.
carole
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:16 pm

double post, sorry
Last edited by carole on Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
carole
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:16 pm

Miss Woodford wrote:Has any filly won the Kentucky Oaks, CCAO and Alabama and NOT won the 3yo filly championship? And the Beldame to boot?

The only time Beholder ventured out of California, she lost, to Princess of Sylmar. Both fillies have 4 G1 wins this year, but the Distaff is Beholder's only win at 9 furlongs. The Princess has multiple G1 wins at 9 furlongs AND at 10 furlongs. I think the Princess has shown more versatility and while it's close, she narrowly beats out Beholder for Champion 3yo Filly.
No because she was the first filly to do so :) That alone should say something about her chances for Eclipse Honours. And this coming from a person who's not a huge fan of her!

Beholder was great this year but her unfortunate injury after the Oaks allowed Sylmar to stamp herself on the top of the division.

Is the Breeder's Cup becoming a championship event to determine Eclipse Award winners? :/
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Miss Woodford
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:17 pm

Admin wrote:
Miss Woodford wrote:Has any filly won the Kentucky Oaks, CCAO and Alabama and NOT won the 3yo filly championship? And the Beldame to boot?

The only time Beholder ventured out of California, she lost, to Princess of Sylmar. Both fillies have 4 G1 wins this year, but the Distaff is Beholder's only win at 9 furlongs. The Princess has multiple G1 wins at 9 furlongs AND at 10 furlongs. I think the Princess has shown more versatility and while it's close, she narrowly beats out Beholder for Champion 3yo Filly.
Beholder won two G1s against older fillies and mares, and one of those was the biggie -- the Distaff. And she beat Sylmar in that race. Sylmar has just one win against older females.
It might come down to an East vs. West Coast thing. That's annoying.
MTO
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:24 pm

Remember when Questing ran badly in the Ladies Classic, and talk was about her losing out 3 YO filly? She won it anyway. She came out of the race with an eye closed shut, so had an excuse that probably helped her get more votes.

We don't know how Princess came out of the race. We might find out tomorrow that that had some kind of issue that shows up the next day.

Either way, I think voters for Eclipse would look at the body of work for Beholder and Princess for the entire year and then make their choice.

We know the track today had a speed bias. That helps Princess. We know she broke badly. Now if she comes out of the race with some kind of issue, then it's a wrap. I think Princess will get the votes regardless.
reverberate
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:52 pm

i feel princess of sylmar was a tired horse but she deserves it, she still dominated all year. hats off to beholder though she came through today and this was her best race of her career.
Izvestia
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:54 pm

Both won 4 grade 1's. Both beat each other. The margins 1/2 length in the KY Oaks for Princess. And, HOW many lengths in the Distaff for Beholder?

The difference will be the bias. The East Coast bias.

Beholder soundly defeated her.
Tessablue
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:59 pm

Izvestia wrote: The difference will be the bias. The East Coast bias.
So close, and yet so very far.
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Oldowan
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:29 pm

Beholder. Never run worse than second this year, won the big one. I'm not entirely sure there was a speed bias today. London Bridge came from out of it--though you could argue he just passed tiring horses who couldn't handle the distance, but it looked like more than that. Close Hatches was fourth early (while Princess was fifth) and ran second; plus Princess of Sylmar was fifth with longshot Street Girl sixth and Street Girl finished in front of her. Authenticity had the lead but didn't go all the way; both Beholder and Close Hatches came from behind her. I don't think you can make the excuse that the track alone did Princess of Sylmar in. She had a bad day. Beholder has never had a bad day this year.
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Calypso
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:58 pm

Solid cases can (and indeed will) be made for both fillies. I think that if Beholder wins, she certainly would deserve this one more than the 2yo award she got last year.
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Charlie
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:04 pm

I think both would be deserving winners of the Eclipse. I'm slightly biased towards Princess of Sylmar so I'd like her to win it though. ;)
arkle
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:17 pm

Who cares?

Seriously, why are eclipse awards such a big deal? Do they come with a big check for the winner? Does anyone make a breeding decision based on one?
Never understood the endless debates that go on over these things.
BlindLucky
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:42 pm

arkle wrote:Do they come with a big check for the winner?
If you consider their value at auction, yes.
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Happy Endings
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Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:44 pm

BlindLucky wrote:
arkle wrote:Do they come with a big check for the winner?
If you consider their value at auction, yes.
I think it makes a difference for their sire, too, in terms of stud fees increases and breeding demand. So there can be a monetary significance to it.
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