Accelerate vs Justify HOTY

Who gets your vote?

Justify
17
26%
Accelerate
48
74%
 
Total votes: 65
Rick1323
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:00 pm

Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:38 am

barbaro111 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:06 pm



sorry that is just so much speculation. in any horse racing season a horse runs against the horses who show up. He won the triple crown- please tell me who the hell Seattle Slew beat in the triple crown races? Sanhedrin? I love Seattle Slew and he is a great horse and he is a great horse in great part because he won the triple crown: history does not put an asterik on the trophy saying oh, Seattle Slew or Justify didn't beat any horse of note..
History will not put an asterisk on Justify's record, but fans can and will. I have seen several TCs now and he is by far the one with the least ability. I will stick to my original theory, there isn't another crop in the last 20 years that he would have won the TC. If you doubt that, put your name sake in this crop.....still think he wins all 3? Which is my point, you cant take away what he accomplished, but you can wonder just how lucky he was to be born when he was......
Everyone come home sound.....
stark
Posts: 4140
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:26 pm

Rick1323 wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:38 am

History will not put an asterisk on Justify's record, but fans can and will. I have seen several TCs now and he is by far the one with the least ability. I will stick to my original theory, there isn't another crop in the last 20 years that he would have won the TC. If you doubt that, put your name sake in this crop.....still think he wins all 3? Which is my point, you cant take away what he accomplished, but you can wonder just how lucky he was to be born when he was......
If we play the "what if" game against other competition than he actually faced, does he get a hypothetical foundation in him by running at 2 so that things are a little more equal and that there would be natural maturation to be factored in from the experience?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Charlie
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:34 pm

Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:38 pm

stark wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:26 pm
Rick1323 wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:38 am

History will not put an asterisk on Justify's record, but fans can and will. I have seen several TCs now and he is by far the one with the least ability. I will stick to my original theory, there isn't another crop in the last 20 years that he would have won the TC. If you doubt that, put your name sake in this crop.....still think he wins all 3? Which is my point, you cant take away what he accomplished, but you can wonder just how lucky he was to be born when he was......
If we play the "what if" game against other competition than he actually faced, does he get a hypothetical foundation in him by running at 2 so that things are a little more equal and that there would be natural maturation to be factored in from the experience?
No, because people are using his lack of a 2 yr old foundation as to why he is so special. If you give it to him, he still loses the majority of the TC races against our recent winners and he looks even more average. So you will do him a favor but not allowing the hypothetical 2y old foundation.
stark
Posts: 4140
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:42 pm

Charlie wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:38 pm
stark wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:26 pm
Rick1323 wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:38 am

History will not put an asterisk on Justify's record, but fans can and will. I have seen several TCs now and he is by far the one with the least ability. I will stick to my original theory, there isn't another crop in the last 20 years that he would have won the TC. If you doubt that, put your name sake in this crop.....still think he wins all 3? Which is my point, you cant take away what he accomplished, but you can wonder just how lucky he was to be born when he was......
If we play the "what if" game against other competition than he actually faced, does he get a hypothetical foundation in him by running at 2 so that things are a little more equal and that there would be natural maturation to be factored in from the experience?
No, because people are using his lack of a 2 yr old foundation as to why he is so special. If you give it to him, he still loses the majority of the TC races against our recent winners and he looks even more average. So you will do him a favor but not allowing the hypothetical 2y old foundation.
And you know that because.....
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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ElPrado2
Posts: 1674
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:45 pm

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:47 pm

Going back to the last post directed at me.....
Who showed up....
19 other horses that were seen as from a good, even excellent crop. We had the usual threats of dying if this, that or the other horse didn't soundly defeat whoever the poster did not prefer.
This, that, or the other horse was anointed as the second coming of Kincsem. Anything but one particular trainer was a recurrent theme. Another trainer seemed to be the second coming. That trainer couldn't get more than 1 horse within 100 feet of the winner's circle at the spa this year. "Oh, he has a virus in his barn!" The virus strangely coincided with better drug testing. He managed to win at the track formerly known as Calder, however. Somehow, the other trainer managed to get blamed for that. The one that had the "virus" in his barn was still the second coming.
Give it a rest.
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ElPrado2
Posts: 1674
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:45 pm

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:59 pm

Now the posts before my last one.
He would not have won the Triple Crown in any of the previous 20 years. Really?
Amazingly, he was not in those races. He was in the Triple Crown races this year. He was not born 20 years ago. He was born 3 years ago. That made him eligible to run this year in the 2018 Triple Crown. Sorta works out that he did not have to run against those 4 year old and older horses if he wasn't even born. Against the horses he was eligible to run against, he did, indeed, compete against them. Just as amazingly, he was the horse that won. Imagine that! He won theTriple Crown. That, whether anyone still wants to admit it, is still the biggest achievement in American racing.
Not older horses. The important horses are 3. Not 4, not 2, not 5. 3. You aren't going to change that any time soon. It is what it is. Pouting because he isn't going to run against older horses is not very productive. It is not the horse's fault. He did not make the decision. Trying to hold him up as an example of what is wrong with American racing, while praising a horse that could not compete and win against horses that did win major races at 3 makes about as much sense as anything else in this thread.
Ugh. Baffert won. Sorry about that. He was not the trainer that held his horses out of Saratoga as soon as they instituted tougher drug testing. He does not normally run there. He is based in California.
This thread is getting hilarious.
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Charlie
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:34 pm

Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:01 pm

I know that because I have eyes and can use critical thinking skills.

It’s also my opinion. How do you know so surely he would have won? Because I’m struggling to seeing him beat recent race winners (especially that Preakness).

We can admit that was an ugly Preakness win guys. It’s ok.
sweettalk
Posts: 1984
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:17 pm

all that argument gives him is 3 yr old hoty, which he deserves since really, this crop had no exceptional standout (hard to beat a TC).

hoty is open to all ages. since he didn't put on a hoty performance (stayed in restricted races and vanished after four months, 6 races, and 2 "wow we don't like this" performances"), i would be hard pressed to give it to him. accelerate's accomplishments this year shouldn't be trivialised because of whatever pedestal we've got the TC on. there's racing outside of the TC. if the TC were the be all end all, we would retire every colt after it.
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Katewerk
Posts: 608
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Location: Canada
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Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:35 am

This is just getting stupid now.
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