Accelerate vs Justify HOTY

Who gets your vote?

Justify
18
27%
Accelerate
48
73%
 
Total votes: 66
Rick1323
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:00 pm

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:51 pm

Put Justify against any other crop of the last 20 years and he would be lucky to win one TC race. He is a very good horse who was born in the right year..................
Everyone come home sound.....
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Big Ten
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Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:39 am

Whoever wins HotY, it's not like robbery since it isn't exactly lopsided. It's like Rachel vs Zenyatta or Zenyatta vs Blame. No problem with either to me.

This ain't no Dances With Wolves beating Goodfellas for Best Picture for 1990! Accelerate and Justify are from California, so no East vs West rivalry there. Just two local boys of ours trying to win an award.

I just think the Triple Crown shouldn't become a footnote accomplishment just because American Pharoah won it over three years ago. Who knows when is the next one?

By 2055, some young folks who never saw Justify will say, "Wait, Justify wasn't HotY when he won the Triple Crown? The first one to be denied? What did Accelerate do that year that was so special to deny Justify the award?"

I don't care if the TC are just for 3YOs. Winning the TC is a difficult accomplishment, period. So for me, Justify is my 2018 Horse of the Year.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray- ... ot-a-beef/
Rock Hard Ten. Free House. Soul Of The Matter. Lit de Justice. Zenyatta. Justify. Cigar. Ghostzapper. Lava Man. Silver Charm.
sweettalk
Posts: 1984
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:15 pm

if what accelerate did was easy, why haven't more horses done it? you're saying the TC is hard (and it is) but acting like it's the EXCLUSIVE hard thing in racing, when it isn't. it's just the one with the most publicity.

and justify coming after AP so soon IS NOT THE ISSUE. you type a lot but you don't seem to actually read much. the circumstances surrounding his year drag him down significantly. we have made valid points (didn't race all year, didn't beat older, didn't beat a particularly interesting crop, people have belmont foil hats, ec) but you've got your fingers in your ears screaming "BUT MUH TRIPLE CROWN!!"
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Big Ten
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Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:57 pm

I'll echo Steve Haskin's sentiments from over a week ago by saying to not take the Triple Crown for granted just because American Pharoah won it in 2015. Justify should be the 2018 HotY. There will be a BC Classic winner every year.
Justify provided us with great joy and made 2018 a year for the history books. What he accomplished in such a short period of time will most likely never be seen again.
If we most likely will never see that again then Justify should be awarded HotY.
Rock Hard Ten. Free House. Soul Of The Matter. Lit de Justice. Zenyatta. Justify. Cigar. Ghostzapper. Lava Man. Silver Charm.
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Curtis
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Location: Monroe, WA
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Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:51 pm

Rick1323 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:51 pm
Put Justify against any other crop of the last 20 years and he would be lucky to win one TC race. He is a very good horse who was born in the right year..................
As they say, everyone is entitled to an opinion......and that certainly is one.
MR-W
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:46 pm

Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Curtis wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:51 pm
Rick1323 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:51 pm
Put Justify against any other crop of the last 20 years and he would be lucky to win one TC race. He is a very good horse who was born in the right year..................
As they say, everyone is entitled to an opinion......and that certainly is one.
Yeah. For a horse who never showed one weakness that is quite an opinion.
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ElPrado2
Posts: 1680
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Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:56 pm

Accelerate looks wonderful... against the competition he was running against. Let's face it. If you wait until the better horses are retired, you must be the best out there. He couldn't beat them if he ran against them. Then the greed of the owners got Justify retired. Hand it to Accelerate's owners why don't we.
What's the difference?
You can reward a Triple Crown winner...
Or, you can gift a horse that has already proven he couldn't beat the best in his crop with an award he backed into.
barbaro111
Posts: 517
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:43 pm

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:06 pm

Rick1323 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:51 pm
Put Justify against any other crop of the last 20 years and he would be lucky to win one TC race. He is a very good horse who was born in the right year..................

sorry that is just so much speculation. in any horse racing season a horse runs against the horses who show up. He won the triple crown- please tell me who the hell Seattle Slew beat in the triple crown races? Sanhedrin? I love Seattle Slew and he is a great horse and he is a great horse in great part because he won the triple crown: history does not put an asterik on the trophy saying oh, Seattle Slew or Justify didn't beat any horse of note..
stark
Posts: 4153
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:21 pm

One thing that mystifies me is when owners get labeled and criticized for being greedy with how they treat their investments.

Kenny provides us with a related life lesson for those who like to be a winner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hx4gdlfamo


You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done
Every gambler knows
That the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away
And knowin' what to keep
'Cause every hand's a winner
And every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for is to die
in your sleep
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Tessablue
Posts: 3523
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Location: Boston

Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:32 pm

One things that mystifies me is how willing some racing fans are to debase themselves and conflate hoarding wealth with "winning." The sport is call horse racing, and you win by running in races. I'm not going to thank a bunch of already-rich people for denying me the chance to witness the career of a potentially great horse while repeatedly lying to me about their plans for becoming more rich. They chose their legacy and have not earned any excuses for it. Honestly, it's probably better for Justify's legacy if he loses HOTY. I think that controversy would last longer in the annals of the sport than his six-race career.

And I still maintain that he would not have won any recent Preaknesses with that performance. The Belmont and Derby are substantially more arguable; I certainly think he would have won all or most of the second-tier Belmonts (i.e. years besides 2015, 2007, and 2005) with that same trip. Probably a fair number of Derbys as well, again depending on trip. We didn't exactly get many chances to observe any weaknesses, but the question of outside pace pressure will last into perpetuity because of his connections.
MR-W
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:46 pm

Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:40 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:32 pm
One things that mystifies me is how willing some racing fans are to debase themselves and conflate hoarding wealth with "winning." The sport is call horse racing, and you win by running in races. I'm not going to thank a bunch of already-rich people for denying me the chance to witness the career of a potentially great horse while repeatedly lying to me about their plans for becoming more rich. They chose their legacy and have not earned any excuses for it. Honestly, it's probably better for Justify's legacy if he loses HOTY. I think that controversy would last longer in the annals of the sport than his six-race career.

And I still maintain that he would not have won any recent Preaknesses with that performance. The Belmont and Derby are substantially more arguable; I certainly think he would have won all or most of the second-tier Belmonts (i.e. years besides 2015, 2007, and 2005) with that same trip. Probably a fair number of Derbys as well, again depending on trip. We didn't exactly get many chances to observe any weaknesses, but the question of outside pace pressure will last into perpetuity because of his connections.
All of your speculation and $2.25 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.....just sayin'
stark
Posts: 4153
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:46 pm

Andy Beyer says No to Justify, Accelerate will get his vote.

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/so ... Q8.twitter

Not the first time Andy has put the "other" horse right straight into the winners circle.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
sweettalk
Posts: 1984
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:15 pm

ElPrado2 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:56 pm
Accelerate looks wonderful... against the competition he was running against. Let's face it. If you wait until the better horses are retired, you must be the best out there. He couldn't beat them if he ran against them. Then the greed of the owners got Justify retired. Hand it to Accelerate's owners why don't we.
What's the difference?
You can reward a Triple Crown winner...
Or, you can gift a horse that has already proven he couldn't beat the best in his crop with an award he backed into.
"who did they beat" i'm not sure is a valid argument for either of them. maybe accelerate beat a watered down crop, but justify was simply the best of a poor crop. they sort of balance out, "they beat who showed up" applying to both of them.
Tessablue
Posts: 3523
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Location: Boston

Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:41 pm

MR-W wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:40 pm
All of your speculation and $2.25 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.....just sayin'
And on the other hand, critical thinking is free to develop and practice.
stark
Posts: 4153
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:48 pm

Critical thinking?

How about expectations and who is in charge of yours?

Maybe they need some adjusting so you'll feel better?

Curious......have you ever been back in the barn when your over-achiever horse returns from a battle on the track and has to be put down?

I'm willing to bet that 99.9% of the rich "no-goods" for the sport would be willing to give most of their money not to have to live through that another time.

It's a dangerous world out there, ain't nothing wrong with being healthy in the barn reproducing.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Tessablue
Posts: 3523
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:29 am
Location: Boston

Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:08 pm

Alright then, let's just shut the sport down.

This whole situation is the exact thing we've collectively feared and complained about for years, but now that it's actually happened, we're supposed to just... shut up and be grateful for it? After we watched a TC winner- the first in nearly four decades- go on to finish his campaign just three years ago?

Racing fans are so weird.
stark
Posts: 4153
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:44 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:08 pm
Alright then, let's just shut the sport down.

Don't be silly, it's unbecoming on you.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
katmandu
Posts: 1006
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:16 am

Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:50 pm

stark wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:48 pm
Curious......have you ever been back in the barn when your over-achiever horse returns from a battle on the track and has to be put down?

I'm willing to bet that 99.9% of the rich "no-goods" for the sport would be willing to give most of their money not to have to live through that another time.

It's a dangerous world out there, ain't nothing wrong with being healthy in the barn reproducing.

Straw man eating a red herring.
Rick1323
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:00 pm

Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:11 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:32 pm


And I still maintain that he would not have won any recent Preaknesses with that performance. The Belmont and Derby are substantially more arguable; I certainly think he would have won all or most of the second-tier Belmonts (i.e. years besides 2015, 2007, and 2005) with that same trip. Probably a fair number of Derbys as well, again depending on trip. We didn't exactly get many chances to observe any weaknesses, but the question of outside pace pressure will last into perpetuity because of his connections.
Pretty much my sentiments. One horse like Peace Rules, Chrome, MDO or any other horse that could carry its speed for mile would change every one of his TC races. A triple crown winner needs one thing, to be born in the right year. Justify had exactly that luck this year......it isn't a knock on him, he beat who showed up, and the right kind of horses showed up.
Everyone come home sound.....
stark
Posts: 4153
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:25 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:08 pm
Racing fans are so weird.
Agreed.
Two horses currently under discussion, Justify and Bravazo.

Can they both be right?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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