Accelerate vs Justify HOTY

Who gets your vote?

Justify
18
27%
Accelerate
48
73%
 
Total votes: 66
Rick1323
Posts: 834
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Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:38 am

barbaro111 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:06 pm



sorry that is just so much speculation. in any horse racing season a horse runs against the horses who show up. He won the triple crown- please tell me who the hell Seattle Slew beat in the triple crown races? Sanhedrin? I love Seattle Slew and he is a great horse and he is a great horse in great part because he won the triple crown: history does not put an asterik on the trophy saying oh, Seattle Slew or Justify didn't beat any horse of note..
History will not put an asterisk on Justify's record, but fans can and will. I have seen several TCs now and he is by far the one with the least ability. I will stick to my original theory, there isn't another crop in the last 20 years that he would have won the TC. If you doubt that, put your name sake in this crop.....still think he wins all 3? Which is my point, you cant take away what he accomplished, but you can wonder just how lucky he was to be born when he was......
Everyone come home sound.....
stark
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Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:26 pm

Rick1323 wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:38 am

History will not put an asterisk on Justify's record, but fans can and will. I have seen several TCs now and he is by far the one with the least ability. I will stick to my original theory, there isn't another crop in the last 20 years that he would have won the TC. If you doubt that, put your name sake in this crop.....still think he wins all 3? Which is my point, you cant take away what he accomplished, but you can wonder just how lucky he was to be born when he was......
If we play the "what if" game against other competition than he actually faced, does he get a hypothetical foundation in him by running at 2 so that things are a little more equal and that there would be natural maturation to be factored in from the experience?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Charlie
Posts: 565
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Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:38 pm

stark wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:26 pm
Rick1323 wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:38 am

History will not put an asterisk on Justify's record, but fans can and will. I have seen several TCs now and he is by far the one with the least ability. I will stick to my original theory, there isn't another crop in the last 20 years that he would have won the TC. If you doubt that, put your name sake in this crop.....still think he wins all 3? Which is my point, you cant take away what he accomplished, but you can wonder just how lucky he was to be born when he was......
If we play the "what if" game against other competition than he actually faced, does he get a hypothetical foundation in him by running at 2 so that things are a little more equal and that there would be natural maturation to be factored in from the experience?
No, because people are using his lack of a 2 yr old foundation as to why he is so special. If you give it to him, he still loses the majority of the TC races against our recent winners and he looks even more average. So you will do him a favor but not allowing the hypothetical 2y old foundation.
stark
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Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:42 pm

Charlie wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:38 pm
stark wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:26 pm
Rick1323 wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:38 am

History will not put an asterisk on Justify's record, but fans can and will. I have seen several TCs now and he is by far the one with the least ability. I will stick to my original theory, there isn't another crop in the last 20 years that he would have won the TC. If you doubt that, put your name sake in this crop.....still think he wins all 3? Which is my point, you cant take away what he accomplished, but you can wonder just how lucky he was to be born when he was......
If we play the "what if" game against other competition than he actually faced, does he get a hypothetical foundation in him by running at 2 so that things are a little more equal and that there would be natural maturation to be factored in from the experience?
No, because people are using his lack of a 2 yr old foundation as to why he is so special. If you give it to him, he still loses the majority of the TC races against our recent winners and he looks even more average. So you will do him a favor but not allowing the hypothetical 2y old foundation.
And you know that because.....
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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ElPrado2
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Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:47 pm

Going back to the last post directed at me.....
Who showed up....
19 other horses that were seen as from a good, even excellent crop. We had the usual threats of dying if this, that or the other horse didn't soundly defeat whoever the poster did not prefer.
This, that, or the other horse was anointed as the second coming of Kincsem. Anything but one particular trainer was a recurrent theme. Another trainer seemed to be the second coming. That trainer couldn't get more than 1 horse within 100 feet of the winner's circle at the spa this year. "Oh, he has a virus in his barn!" The virus strangely coincided with better drug testing. He managed to win at the track formerly known as Calder, however. Somehow, the other trainer managed to get blamed for that. The one that had the "virus" in his barn was still the second coming.
Give it a rest.
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ElPrado2
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Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:59 pm

Now the posts before my last one.
He would not have won the Triple Crown in any of the previous 20 years. Really?
Amazingly, he was not in those races. He was in the Triple Crown races this year. He was not born 20 years ago. He was born 3 years ago. That made him eligible to run this year in the 2018 Triple Crown. Sorta works out that he did not have to run against those 4 year old and older horses if he wasn't even born. Against the horses he was eligible to run against, he did, indeed, compete against them. Just as amazingly, he was the horse that won. Imagine that! He won theTriple Crown. That, whether anyone still wants to admit it, is still the biggest achievement in American racing.
Not older horses. The important horses are 3. Not 4, not 2, not 5. 3. You aren't going to change that any time soon. It is what it is. Pouting because he isn't going to run against older horses is not very productive. It is not the horse's fault. He did not make the decision. Trying to hold him up as an example of what is wrong with American racing, while praising a horse that could not compete and win against horses that did win major races at 3 makes about as much sense as anything else in this thread.
Ugh. Baffert won. Sorry about that. He was not the trainer that held his horses out of Saratoga as soon as they instituted tougher drug testing. He does not normally run there. He is based in California.
This thread is getting hilarious.
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Charlie
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Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:01 pm

I know that because I have eyes and can use critical thinking skills.

It’s also my opinion. How do you know so surely he would have won? Because I’m struggling to seeing him beat recent race winners (especially that Preakness).

We can admit that was an ugly Preakness win guys. It’s ok.
sweettalk
Posts: 1984
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:17 pm

all that argument gives him is 3 yr old hoty, which he deserves since really, this crop had no exceptional standout (hard to beat a TC).

hoty is open to all ages. since he didn't put on a hoty performance (stayed in restricted races and vanished after four months, 6 races, and 2 "wow we don't like this" performances"), i would be hard pressed to give it to him. accelerate's accomplishments this year shouldn't be trivialised because of whatever pedestal we've got the TC on. there's racing outside of the TC. if the TC were the be all end all, we would retire every colt after it.
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Katewerk
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Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:35 am

This is just getting stupid now.
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Big Ten
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Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:07 am

For me, Justify winning HotY is more about honoring Team Baffert.

Bob Baffert = GOAT horse trainer

I know not everyone likes this man, but say Baffert is dead 5-10 years from now? Those same people saying negative things about him now will be praising him when he's dead.

Think Bobby Frankel (or even Michael Jackson). I wasn't really a Frankel fan when he was alive. I knew his horses were awesome on turf and he usually trained for Juddmonte Farms. Then when he died, people kept praising him.

Jerry Bailey is the best American jockey I ever saw for my generation. I remember him winning a BCC threepeat. Yet, I think Baffert is greater as a trainer than Bailey ever was as a jockey.

Triple Crown winners = 2
BCC winners = 3
KY Derby winners = 5
DWC winners = 3
Pegasus winners = 1

I'll take the nickname from 7-time NBA champion, Robert Horry, and call Baffert Big Shot Bob. He's even bigger money than Big Money Jerry or Mike.

Pletcher has won Trainer of the Year 7x. Baffert only 4x. Baffert is way better than Pletcher for me. I feel if the voters award Justify HotY, they're really awarding the greatest trainer many of us have ever seen.

We may never see a run like this from a trainer ever again in our lifetimes. I'd bet Baffert has an improbable game winner again for next year... ;-)
Rock Hard Ten. Free House. Soul Of The Matter. Lit de Justice. Zenyatta. Justify. Cigar. Ghostzapper. Lava Man. Silver Charm.
stark
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:03 pm

I'm confident somebody here can present a cogent answer......

Andy Serling
‏@andyserling

How come nobody is talking about the real upcoming Eclipse Award controversy...how can they actually give an award this year to Male Turf Champion?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
peeptoad
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:31 pm

stark wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:03 pm
I'm confident somebody here can present a cogent answer......

Andy Serling
‏@andyserling

How come nobody is talking about the real upcoming Eclipse Award controversy...how can they actually give an award this year to Male Turf Champion?
The award shouldn't be given if there is no worthy recipient. Isn't that how the Eclipse awards started out? (maybe not I don't keep tabs on that stuff) If no standout then don't give the award; then it'll mean more when it is doled out.
Tessablue
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:35 pm

Stormy Liberal earned it and I will die on that hill!!
peeptoad
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:38 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:35 pm
Stormy Liberal earned it and I will die on that hill!!
Ha! I actually just thought of him after I posted... he's the closest to worthy this year.
Tessablue
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:42 pm

Yeah, I know he's not a traditional choice and "G1 win, G3 win, listed win" doesn't sound like a championship resume, but it's not his fault those races won't be upgraded until next year and he was fantastic in the BC (and pretty darn good in Dubai, for whatever that's worth).

Not about to hold my breath, although I genuinely don't know who else could even be considered at this point.
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mariasmon
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:49 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:42 pm
Yeah, I know he's not a traditional choice and "G1 win, G3 win, listed win" doesn't sound like a championship resume, but it's not his fault those races won't be upgraded until next year and he was fantastic in the BC (and pretty darn good in Dubai, for whatever that's worth).

Not about to hold my breath, although I genuinely don't know who else could even be considered at this point.
La Verdad won an Eclipse without a G1 to her name. There's something to be said for having the most consistent season. Horse can't help it if the division in which he excels has a (comparative) dearth of graded stakes and only one North American G1 available.
barbaro111
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Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:09 am

https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/ ... 0_list_123#

Justify lands on ESPN's dominant 20 list--
Accelerate ain't there
Point being: the triple crown is a very big deal
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ElPrado2
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Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:14 am

Ain't love grand!
MR-W
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Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:12 pm

barbaro111 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:09 am
https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/ ... 0_list_123#

Justify lands on ESPN's dominant 20 list--
Accelerate ain't there
Point being: the triple crown is a very big deal
When it comes to horse racing, ESPN reminds me of my local newspaper. They look at the glitz and the glamor and don't know much about the inter workings of the sport. I doubt that they even know who Accelerate is. Just sayin'...
stark
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Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:24 pm

MR-W wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:12 pm
barbaro111 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:09 am
https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/ ... 0_list_123#

Justify lands on ESPN's dominant 20 list--
Accelerate ain't there
Point being: the triple crown is a very big deal
When it comes to horse racing, ESPN reminds me of my local newspaper. They look at the glitz and the glamor and don't know much about the inter workings of the sport. I doubt that they even know who Accelerate is. Just sayin'...
Sounds like you could be describing ABC tv and the Academy Awards.
Isn't it true that 87% of the fans fit into that category?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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