Are our turf horses really inferior???

Post Reply
Izvestia
Posts: 3844
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:16 am

Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:40 am

This was said by Sound of Freedom a few days ago... European turf horses come over here and dominate these horses. See this years Breeder Cup. Group3 turf horses come over here and compete and sometimes win Grade 1's over here.

I had to dissect your comment, mostly because I know you are wrong. Of the 34 G1s on the turf in the USA in 2013, 9 were won by European horses (or 10 if you include Seek Again, born in KY and raced overseas), and 1 was won by an Argentine horse (Suggestive Boy) who was a G1 winner in Argentina before shipping.

Four of those races were won by Dank (GB) and Laughing (IRE).
Laughing is the only one that falls under your statement “Group 3 turf horse in Europe”. The trick with Laughing was getting her to relax on the front, since she’s a wing-nut.
Dank was a Group 2 winner before she came over to the USA, not a Group 3 winner.

Juvenile turf racing is not as good as Europe, I admit that. BUT, Outstrip (GB) was a Group 2 winner, and placed in a Group 1. And, Chriselliam (IRE) won a Group 1 before coming over and winning the Juvenile Turf Fillies race.

Magician (IRE) won the BC Turf. He won a Group 1 in May, then ran 9th after a bad trip in June. Was off until the BC Turf.

Alterite (FR) won the Garden City, she was 2nd and 3rd in Group 1’s in France.

The other was Obviously (IRE), who raced 3 times in at 3 in IRE, and has come over and done well as a mile/sprint turf horse in CA. Perhaps he likes to hear his bones rattle when he runs? Perhaps he was the type of horse to get better with age. Shocking, really.

I'd like to see where the domination is.
User avatar
dustino140
Posts: 5206
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:51 pm

Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:42 am

It really is a slow time of the year in racing, huh?
Izvestia
Posts: 3844
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:16 am

Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:44 am

Peanut, I'm only getting started.

I just think if you're going to say stuff like that, at least have it right.
User avatar
dustino140
Posts: 5206
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:51 pm

Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:46 am

Izvestia wrote:Peanut, I'm only getting started.

I just think if you're going to say stuff like that, at least have it right.
Who do you like in any of today's races?
Izvestia
Posts: 3844
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:16 am

Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:16 pm

I posted on the Jerome thread.
I like the Hollendorfer filly in the Santa Ynez.
Cyclometer in the Midnight Lute.
I'd like to see Jeranimo win the San Gabriel, I also like Fire With Fire in that.
Zensational Bunny for Casse in the Old Hat, Abaco in the Marshua's River, Hollywood Talent in the Spectacular Bid.
And a longshot, La Song, in the Pan Zareta.
Somnambulist
Posts: 7382
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:59 pm

Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:19 pm

Izvestia wrote:This was said by Sound of Freedom a few days ago... European turf horses come over here and dominate these horses. See this years Breeder Cup. Group3 turf horses come over here and compete and sometimes win Grade 1's over here.
I think you need to take a step back and take a serious look at who you're arguing with.

I'm guessing Dank and Wise Dan aren't holding razors to their fetlocks because 1-2 posters on a message board called them inferior, but it should be very obvious that any credible argument relating to this is stating turf racing in the U.S. an inferior product to compared to that offered on the main track. And it is. I wonder how many people who feel it's equal handicap even infrequently.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
User avatar
mariasmon
Posts: 3882
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:38 am

Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:31 pm

Doesn't it depend on the horse? Stephanie's Kitten could probably be competitive on an international level. She likes soft ground and potential track conditions in the UK & Ireland wouldn't negatively affect her chances.
User avatar
Life At Zen
Posts: 1655
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:52 pm

Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:42 pm

I think a better example of their lesser horses beating our best would be Cape Blanco.
A R R O G A T E
Paradise Woods, Lady Eli, Songbird, Ziconic
Gormley, Royal Mo, Shaman Ghost, Constellation

Once upon a time there was a horse named Kelso.
But only once. ~Joe Hirsch
User avatar
mariasmon
Posts: 3882
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:38 am

Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:46 pm

How inferior was Cape Blanco? He WAS a dual G1 winner in Ireland.
User avatar
Life At Zen
Posts: 1655
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:52 pm

Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:50 pm

mariasmon wrote:How inferior was Cape Blanco? He WAS a dual G1 winner in Ireland.
There were a lot of races he didn't do so well in. Then he ships to the US and manhandles our turf horses three times in a row in G1 races. His races here were cakewalks for him.
A R R O G A T E
Paradise Woods, Lady Eli, Songbird, Ziconic
Gormley, Royal Mo, Shaman Ghost, Constellation

Once upon a time there was a horse named Kelso.
But only once. ~Joe Hirsch
MR-W
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:46 pm

Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:00 pm

A friend of mind lives in England and is well versed in horse racing in both Europe and the US. He feels that the horses overseas are much much tougher because of the training methods and racing conditions that they face. Long and soft turf on uneven surfaces that make our surfaces feel like short carpet to them. Over the years many people on the forums have complained that running the BC at Santa Anita is unfair to the Euros because the temp can be into the high 80's to 100 such as it was in 2003. It hasn't seemed to make a difference that I can see. I think the Euro horses face more adversity while running and it shows in the results.
User avatar
mariasmon
Posts: 3882
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:38 am

Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:50 pm

Life At Zen wrote:
mariasmon wrote:How inferior was Cape Blanco? He WAS a dual G1 winner in Ireland.
There were a lot of races he didn't do so well in. Then he ships to the US and manhandles our turf horses three times in a row in G1 races. His races here were cakewalks for him.
He beat Dean's Kitten by a nose in the Joe Hirsch. That's not a cakewalk. Do I think Dean's Kitten was really that good? No. And Cape Blanco came out of the race with an injury, so you could theorize he was compromised. But I think you're somewhat overstating.
User avatar
Life At Zen
Posts: 1655
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:52 pm

Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:53 pm

mariasmon wrote:
Life At Zen wrote:
mariasmon wrote:How inferior was Cape Blanco? He WAS a dual G1 winner in Ireland.
There were a lot of races he didn't do so well in. Then he ships to the US and manhandles our turf horses three times in a row in G1 races. His races here were cakewalks for him.
He beat Dean's Kitten by a nose in the Joe Hirsch. That's not a cakewalk. Do I think Dean's Kitten was really that good? No. And Cape Blanco came out of the race with an injury, so you could theorize he was compromised. But I think you're somewhat overstating.
We can all have different opinions, doesn't mean anyone is right. In my opinion, I think he had a much easier time winning G1's here than overseas. I don't think he was chopped liver over there, but he was no more than a "Good" horse.
A R R O G A T E
Paradise Woods, Lady Eli, Songbird, Ziconic
Gormley, Royal Mo, Shaman Ghost, Constellation

Once upon a time there was a horse named Kelso.
But only once. ~Joe Hirsch
Izvestia
Posts: 3844
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:16 am

Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:57 pm

[/quote]

I think you need to take a step back and take a serious look at who you're arguing with.
[/quote]


Seriously? I think you need to take a step back and take a serious look at what I am saying.
Post Reply