What does "stamp his get" mean?

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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:11 pm

What does it mean when people say a sire stamps his get? Is it color? Markings? A particular type of conformation? Temperament? I genuinely don't know what the term means, so welcome anyone's insights.

For example, there is a distinct Northern Dancer type. He was a small, compact, muscular bay with a blaze and three white socks. A large number of his offspring and descendants are the same type.

Northern Dancer
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BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:38 pm

RR, I think you just answered your own question. ;)
When I've seen the phrase 'stamps his get,' it usually refers to the physical resemblance, like conformation and coloring.
IMHO, Lonhro is a good example. His son Denman is the spitting image of his sire. When I'm looking at a field where I know there is a Lonhro running, I can usually pick out the individual; built like a miler and usually black. 8-)
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Ballerina
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:39 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:RR, I think you just answered your own question. ;)
When I've seen the phrase 'stamps his get,' it usually refers to the physical resemblance, like conformation and coloring.
IMHO, Lonhro is a good example. His son Denman is the spitting image of his sire. When I'm looking at a field where I know there is a Lonhro running, I can usually pick out the individual; built like a miler and usually black. 8-)
This
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:23 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:RR, I think you just answered your own question. ;)
I guess, but the term still confuses me. So for example, can a sire be thought of as stamping his get if he gets a wide variety of coat colors? Can a sire be thought of as stamping his get only if a high percentage of his foals resemble him and not their dams? Or a small percentage? I'm not sure I'm being clear, but trying to be.

Northern Dancer is, to me, unusual. Although there is a distinct ND type that has lasted through several generations, his best racing son was Nijinsky II. Nijinsky resembled his dam, not his sire ND.

Another example is Tapit. Most of his get are grays, but gray is a dominant color. So is he stamping his get because most are gray, or are they gray because the color is dominant? See what I'm trying to get at?

For that matter, is it even important in Thoroughbred racing for a stallion to stamp his get?
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:45 pm

Good questions. I don't think we will find a definitive answer, since we're dealing with the impression that a stallion is siring offspring that look like him. We may hear that horses like Honor Code run like A.P. Indy (low head), so 'Indy 'stamped his get' with that colt....but how many of 'Indy's offspring actually run like that?
Tapit's grey get may add to the impression that the Pulpit stallion 'stamps his get,' but, as you point out, grey is a dominant color, and may end up on horses that don't actually have Tapit's conformation.
Maybe a better example of a prepotent stallion is Galileo. His kids are almost always bay (Winter is kind of rare), with a white snip or blaze, not large or heavy, and handsome with a chiselled head. And tremendous talent on the turf. :P
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:05 pm

Speaking of Lonhro, his three-year-old daughter, Nootka Sound, just won the 8th at Gulfstream, a 7 1/2-furlong AOC on the grass. And, yes, the Wesley Ward-trained filly is mid-sized, almost black and with a pretty head. ;) :D Like Dad.
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Miss Woodford
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:37 pm

Classic example is the Fair Play neck- thick, upright and upside-down.

Fair Play himself
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Man O'War
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Mad Hatter
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Head Play
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Chance Play
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It can be seen in many of his later descendants as well.
War Relic
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Stymie (linebred 3x3 to Man O'War)
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:43 pm

Miss Woodford wrote:Classic example is the Fair Play neck- thick, upright and upside-down.
Nice, helpful post. Question...what does upside-down mean?
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:54 pm

I'm going to guess it's the muscular, convex curve on the underside of the neck. :P ;)
I think it's rather attractive. Adds to the powerful image of the stallions.
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Falinadin
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:12 pm

On the biology side of things, "stamping his get" can be related to the heterzygosity/homozygosity of his genetics. If a stallion is strongly linebred, or his dam and sire were similar (both short, both fine boned, whatever), then his genetics will all be similar, in a sense. He'll produce offspring of a similar type. On the other hand if you breed a 17h fine boned stallion to a short thick mare and the resultant colt is middle of the road, who knows what he'll produce. Are his recessive genes from his sire or dam?

This can be of value to breeders because you have a better idea about what he'll throw, and can maybe make a better choice for your mare.

I have a huge collection of sales conformation pictures from the past 5 years or so, and it's really interesting seeing the conformational traits that stallions pass down.

Tapit has an attractive head, a neck that ties in high, straight knees, a flat-ish hip, and is a tiny bit posty in his rear legs.
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Here are yearlings of his that carry some of those same traits:
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Not every offspring of his has all these traits, but they're common enough that I can pick out a number of Tapit yearlings just by their looks.
Rainyday
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:21 pm

In the case of Fair Play, it's not really just the neck--it's the whole front end. Comes with that prominent wither and shoulder.

Still pops up sometimes. Look at Da'Tara, who is a direct male line descendant of Fair Play: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ed/66/76/ed66 ... horses.jpg
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Miss Woodford
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:04 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:
Miss Woodford wrote:Classic example is the Fair Play neck- thick, upright and upside-down.
Nice, helpful post. Question...what does upside-down mean?
The bulk of the musculature and "weight" of the neck is on the underside instead of the crest, and the neck . Can be used interchangeably with the term "ewe neck" but they are slightly different.
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Rainyday wrote:In the case of Fair Play, it's not really just the neck--it's the whole front end. Comes with that prominent wither and shoulder.

Still pops up sometimes. Look at Da'Tara, who is a direct male line descendant of Fair Play: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ed/66/76/ed66 ... horses.jpg
Tiznow didn't have it that noticeably but some of his offspring sure do.

Bullsbay
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Slew's Tizzy
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:36 pm

Wonderful discussion. Thank you everyone. One reason I posed this question about stamping get aside from the fact that it has been a hard concept for me to fully understand, is that I like Gun Runner. I wish him well at stud, but don't see much resemblance between him and either his sire, Candy Ride, or dam, Quiet Giant, and wondered how that might affect his stud career if at all.

Quiet Giant
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Candy Ride
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Gun Runner
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Miss Woodford
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:32 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote: Quiet Giant
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Off topic, but are those are the craziest Bend Or spots (?) I've ever seen.
firehorse
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Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:52 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:Wonderful discussion. Thank you everyone. One reason I posed this question about stamping get aside from the fact that it has been a hard concept for me to fully understand, is that I like Gun Runner. I wish him well at stud, but don't see much resemblance between him and either his sire, Candy Ride, or dam, Quiet Giant, and wondered how that might affect his stud career if at all.

Quiet Giant
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Candy Ride
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Gun Runner
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Looks like his mom to me.
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Treve
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Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:54 am

Usually "stamping" the get (at least in other breeds and disciplines) refers to the conformation and/or biomechanics, moreso than colour or pigment. And when you say a stallion or a mare stamps their get usually you mean that they produce a good chunk of their offspring that resembles them or carries a distinctive characteristic that is "unmistakably X". That doesn't mean they can't/don't produce offspring who won't be like that. But it's the difference between a stallion that produces offspring with a lot of common characteristics, vs a stallion that produces horses all over the map. For example Cairo Prince yearlings were very well received because from what I've heard he's passing on good conformation and good biomechanics consistently. If he continues to "breed true" one could say he is stamping his get.

I see both of his parents in Gun Runner, but he does look more like mom conformationally. She's super flashy with her bend'or spots I gotta say.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Ridan_Remembered
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Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:28 am

Treve wrote:Usually "stamping" the get (at least in other breeds and disciplines) refers to the conformation and/or biomechanics, moreso than colour or pigment. And when you say a stallion or a mare stamps their get usually you mean that they produce a good chunk of their offspring that resembles them or carries a distinctive characteristic that is "unmistakably X".
Thanks Treve, focusing on conformation/biomechanics helps me conceptualize the term. Gun Runner is smallish and carries his head low like A.P. Indy. Yet he has zero A.P. Indy in his pedigree and neither Candy Ride nor Quiet Giant have that characteristic. It's such an interesting topic. :)
genuinerizk
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Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:46 am

It is so neat to see these pictures. Thank you to all for posting them. Wonder how much Gun Runner will change appearance-wise when he becomes less race- fit looking, and becomes more "studdy" looking? I'm wondering if he will start to look more like dad?
I have a Rock Hard Ten mare, who looks just like her dad. I have been able to recognize a lot of Rock Hard Tens right away because he seems to really stamp them.
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starrydreamer
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Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:35 am

Speaking of Northern Dancer, his son Danzig, who looks quite a lot like him, stamped a good number of his sons, I think.

Danzig
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War Front
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Hard Spun (who has a prettier head than most Danzigs, I think)
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Danehill (who honestly looks more like Northern Dancer)
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Green Desert
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War Chant
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Polish Numbers
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Exchange Rate
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Dayjur
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Chief's Crown
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Pine Bluff
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Danzig Connection
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Bianconi
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Katewerk
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Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:33 pm

How different are these in type than the photos from Japan that Tachyon shares? Holy cow.
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