APPLE Should or Shouldn't?

Ruffian_fan
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Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:06 am

Admin wrote:
BaroqueAgain1 wrote:IMHO, the safe deposit box/safe comparison isn't quite apples and apples.
If you get a court order to open one particular safe deposit box or safe, the action doesn't open EVERY other similar deposit box or safe in the country. And it doesn't make that one open-it-all key available then to any nefarious person/group who knows how to use it...which, if I understand the situation correctly, might be what would happen if Apple designs a "back door" to their encryption code.
I see both sides, but there has to be a compromise somewhere. :?
If Apple is worried that their coding can be stolen, then aren't they admitting to a lack of proper security?
I don't see that as admitting a lack of security. I see that as acknowledging that somewhere, sometime, someone might get through.
Ruffian_fan
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Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:09 am

stark wrote:Who's in charge of the slippery slope?

For the folks that think 100,000,000's of innocent folks at Starbucks are going to be impacted by this decision.....doesn't that responsibility lie with APPLE?
Are they saying that once it's invented that they can't control it and it would be available for mass release?

Hogwash!

APPLE is in control of the destiny period.

If they write the code, use it for this one request, get reimbursed for their labor and then drag it to the recycle bin, doesn't the slippery slope concept dry up rather quickly? At least it does from the Government's side of things, there's nothing Washington DC can do to slide down the slope, if it fails it would be on APPLE, no?

Now if APPLE wants to think that the Government's request might happen again in April, and elect not to destroy the secret proprietary codes, that's okay but they're the ones in total control of mass hysteria, which there won't be any if APPLE controls things the way they should, are they really afraid they'll fail at that?
The human brain is not very good at unlearning things, as a general rule. Once something has been created, it cannot be uncreated. You may trash it destroy it, whatever, but there will still be those with the knowledge of how it was created.

Apple is absolutely doing the right thing. I would have been highly disappointed to hear that they rolled over.
stark
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Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:48 pm

Ruffian_fan wrote: Apple is absolutely doing the right thing. I would have been highly disappointed to hear that they rolled over.
But wait, the story gets even better.....

The government now says to APPLE "we understand your hesitancy and you don't have to break the encryption code, we've got guys that can guess the user's password, but we understand that if we miss too many times then it'll automatically erase itself" So, can you APPLE just disconnect that feature and let our guys figure out how to break in?

The whole issue came up in the Republican debate last night and the distinguished gentleman from Ohio nailed it....."the problem here is that Obama (if it was ever necessary to go that high) failed to convene a meeting, lock the door and say we need to reach an agreement before anybody leaves". This NEVER should have been played out on the nightly news!

And as for the kids holding posters in front of Starbucks that read "Secure Phones Save Lives" and other such nonsense about privacy issues I have a question.....isn't that the same kid that posted pictures of his privates on Facebook along with other unimaginable details about his personal life that NEVER would be in the public domain without the aid of APPLE?
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BlindLucky
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Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:35 pm

That's actually still the same story, though.

They can't just disconnect the feature, that's at the core of the issue. They have to write code that compromises the OS and allows brute force attacks to continue past their current safeguards that would lock/erase data. That's the backdoor/master key that the government wants them to create, and if they do it for one phone and set this precedent, Apple is arguing that it won't stop there. They'll want it again for another phone. And another. And another. And it could be expanded beyond just the use case for phone security and into other businesses/industries. It's the scary side of the government forcing a private company to weaken the security on a privately developed product that they're afraid sets a Big Brother precedent we can't go back from.

I tend to side with Apple on this one. And I don't even like Apple. Although I do tend to think that if you aren't doing anything wrong, then why should you care if someone looks at your phone--but then where do you draw the line at reasonable expectations of privacy? This issue isn't about one phone from a known terrorist. It's about opening Pandora's box and letting the government dictate security-weakening terms to a privately held company that can be used as a legal precedent to do it again in the future.

My boss just left to speak at a cyber security conference in D.C. tonight. I work at a software startup that's creating a mobile application development platform, so this topic has been discussed in the office almost every day since Apple went public with their press release. These guys can explain it down to the most minuscule detail, but my eyes glaze over once they start their technospeak.
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stark
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Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:19 pm

BlindLucky wrote:Apple is arguing that it won't stop there. They'll want it again for another phone. And another. And another.
But that's all pure conjecture at this point, NOBODY really knows the actual answer to their concerns, but we do know that National Security should be the trump card today, and APPLE is still in control going forward. Will there be more one-off's, most likely, but how does anybody logically jump to millions of innocent users being negatively impacted?

p.s. why do they call it the Trump card? ;)
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BlindLucky
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Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:40 pm

stark wrote:
BlindLucky wrote:Apple is arguing that it won't stop there. They'll want it again for another phone. And another. And another.
But that's all pure conjecture at this point, NOBODY really knows the actual answer to their concerns, but we do know that National Security should be the trump card today, and APPLE is still in control going forward. Will there be more one-off's, most likely, but how does anybody logically jump to millions of innocent users being negatively impacted?
Probably because of things like the NSA legally conducting warrantless wiretapping on who knows how many people, so it's not pure conjecture.

I really don't know what the answer is, and I'm still torn on how I feel about the whole thing.
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stark
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Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:11 pm

BlindLucky wrote: I really don't know what the answer is, and I'm still torn on how I feel about the whole thing.
Yep, that's why it's a 50/50 issue when people get polled, no definitive right answer out there.

Could be as simple as there's 50% of the world is pessimistic fairly certain something will go wrong, while the other 50% have that EGBOK philosophy on a daily basis, everything's gonna be okay!

Count me in with the latter.

Curious if you can share anything related from your bosses speaking engagement in DC?
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BlindLucky
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Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:57 pm

stark wrote: Curious if you can share anything related from your bosses speaking engagement in DC?
I don't even know what the conference is called--my eyes were glazing over at that point :lol:

I'll find out when he gets back. They may have recorded it, or at least have some info about it online somewhere.
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BlindLucky
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Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:06 pm

stark wrote:Curious if you can share anything related from your bosses speaking engagement in DC?
So it turns out that there's not much he can share, because he and about 10 other tech CEOs were speaking to a Congressional panel on how to best explain cyber security issues to the general public. Seems that Congress mostly just had their fingers in their ears and wanted sound bites, not nuanced explanations. :roll:
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Bookman
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Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:49 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG0bAaK7p9s&app=desktop

Published on Feb 29, 2016
"Yes, it has gotten this bad. In language simple enough for even a child to understand, John McAfee explains for the world and for the FBI how to hack an iPhone or any computer that is in physical custody. No need for network-connected backdoors. Batteries included. "
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CoronadosQuest
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Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:24 pm

I know that the judge already ruled that Apple didn't have to build this backdoor system but I think what a lot of people don't realize is that if Apple has to do this for our country... why not the rest of the world? Apple is an INTERNATIONAL Country so if they allow ONE government in, there is nothing that says they can't allow the others. Apple phones are all over the world. If you are okay with them giving the backdoor code to the FBI, are you okay with them giving them to the other countries in the world?
stark
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Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:18 pm

CoronadosQuest wrote:I know that the judge already ruled that Apple didn't have to build this backdoor system but I think what a lot of people don't realize is that if Apple has to do this for our country... why not the rest of the world? Apple is an INTERNATIONAL Country so if they allow ONE government in, there is nothing that says they can't allow the others. Apple phones are all over the world. If you are okay with them giving the backdoor code to the FBI, are you okay with them giving them to the other countries in the world?
What if...What if...What if...What if...What if....What if....What if....What if....What if..What if....

That could go on forever, unfortunately a timely decision may be very necessary and for the greater good, in this case National Security in the USA. This particular case should've reached a quick solution already while all the "what if's" can be raised as needed going forward. As I understand it, the FBI is asking for access NOT the backdoor code, leaving APPLE in complete control.
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CoronadosQuest
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Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:07 pm

stark wrote:
CoronadosQuest wrote:I know that the judge already ruled that Apple didn't have to build this backdoor system but I think what a lot of people don't realize is that if Apple has to do this for our country... why not the rest of the world? Apple is an INTERNATIONAL Country so if they allow ONE government in, there is nothing that says they can't allow the others. Apple phones are all over the world. If you are okay with them giving the backdoor code to the FBI, are you okay with them giving them to the other countries in the world?
What if...What if...What if...What if...What if....What if....What if....What if....What if..What if....

That could go on forever, unfortunately a timely decision may be very necessary and for the greater good, in this case National Security in the USA. This particular case should've reached a quick solution already while all the "what if's" can be raised as needed going forward. As I understand it, the FBI is asking for access NOT the backdoor code, leaving APPLE in complete control.
And if they create an access, that means it exists which means that someone could potentially get a hold of it and everyone's info is everywhere. Without it existing, nobody can potentially get into the system.

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stark
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Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:44 pm

CoronadosQuest wrote: And if they create an access, that means it exists which means that someone could potentially get a hold of it and everyone's info is everywhere. Without it existing, nobody can potentially get into the system.
You just can't really believe that, that nobody can potentially get into the system?

If you are living in fear of Apple's code is going to become public may I suggest that the bad guys out there are probably already working on it and any real thoughts you may have of rights to privacy are slim.
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Catalina
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Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:14 am

stark wrote:
CoronadosQuest wrote: And if they create an access, that means it exists which means that someone could potentially get a hold of it and everyone's info is everywhere. Without it existing, nobody can potentially get into the system.
You just can't really believe that, that nobody can potentially get into the system?

If you are living in fear of Apple's code is going to become public may I suggest that the bad guys out there are probably already working on it and any real thoughts you may have of rights to privacy are slim.
That was pretty much also my thought.
Mikako
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Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:45 am

Last night I was listening to an album I had bought a few years ago, and I thought: I should never have bought this stuff - its so unattractive even if maybe interesting for the musicians to play. The reason I bought it in the first place must have been a review I had read somewhere. - So I thought: Should I start a thread entitled Albums I Should Never Have Bought - but then I decided not to do it. I felt it wouldnt be fair on the musicians. But Im still uncertain - do we have enough clout here to ruin a musicians career? And if so, would we really want to do that?

Let me know what you think.
ПРИКИНЬТЕ ДОЛЛАР СНОВА БУДЕТ СТОИТЬ 30 РУБЛЕЙ!!! ВОТ ТАК НОВОСТЬ!!! ПОДРОБНЕЕ ТУТ
stark
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Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:51 pm

Mikako wrote:Last night I was listening to an album I had bought a few years ago, and I thought: I should never have bought this stuff - its so unattractive even if maybe interesting for the musicians to play. The reason I bought it in the first place must have been a review I had read somewhere. - So I thought: Should I start a thread entitled Albums I Should Never Have Bought - but then I decided not to do it. I felt it wouldnt be fair on the musicians. But Im still uncertain - do we have enough clout here to ruin a musicians career? And if so, would we really want to do that?

Let me know what you think.
That's an interesting initial post Mikako, I'm kinda shocked there's no link to somewhere!
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stark
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Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:25 pm

In a CBS News/New York Times poll, 50 percent of the more than 1,000 people surveyed said Apple should unlock the phone, though nearly as many, 45 percent, think it should not.

Some highlights from the poll:

Younger Americans, independents, and iPhone owners side with Apple, while older Americans, and most Republicans and Democrats, side with federal law enforcement officials in this dispute.
More than eight in 10 Americans think it's at least somewhat likely that if Apple creates a way to unlock the iPhone it will create a precedent for the future, and two-thirds think it's at least somewhat likely it will make other iPhones more vulnerable to hackers. But two-thirds also think it's at least somewhat likely that the iPhone contains information that could help the government in its investigation.
Generally, just 26 percent think the federal government has gone too far in infringing on people's privacy in the fight against terrorism, while the percentage who thinks the government hasn't gone far enough has risen. But 58 percent of Americans remain concerned about losing some of their privacy in the fight against terrorism.
The poll was conducted by telephone March 11-15, 2016 among a random sample of 1,022 adults nationwide. Data collection was conducted on behalf of CBS News
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stark
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Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:54 pm

Case closed.

Curious if the slippery slope grassy knoll folks are nervous?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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