O'Neil suspended 45 days

[The Tin Man]

Tinny, I have no illusions about this sport. I have read more than I care to know and am certain it can be uglier than I care to imagine. Heck, things I've seen over the last 10 years with my own eyes have chilled me to the bone. I'm pretty certain DO is/was dirty. To what extent I don't know. Perhaps he's turned over a new leaf and deserves a chance to prove that. I give him credit for it. But I also think if he's harmed an animal, albeit in the past, he needs to pay for it. I just HATE the timing of it. Sorry.

I definitely believe he's turned over a new leaf. I've seen and heard plenty of enormously positive things he's done ...

That being said, this situation happened 1 1/2 years ago ... So it's not exactly like he timed it to come to a head now ... Guess it's just the luck of the draw.

That's horse racing's luck I guess ...

[EquineAnne]

Tinny, listen: just because he does good things, doesn't make the bad things that he did do in the past go away. We all do good things and bad things. We make amends. But it is up to each individual to decide if they can forgive us or not.

Some people can't forgive O Neill for what he has done, some are willing to forgive him because he does good things too. You can discuss this for another 1000 pages, everyone has their own ethics about this.

My take on O Neill is, that he is no saint, that he did bend the rules to his liking (and probably will in the future again, since this is a competition driven sport where results count). But I also believe that he did change after the Burna Dette (hope I spell her name right) incident and now takes better care of his horses and devoting more work to horse rescues because of that. I don't know if that is because of public pressure (don't think so though, because I never saw him gloat about it) or because of simple guilt.

But again, other people will never forgive him and you can't fault them for that.

About the milk shaking: the horse was under his care, his responsibility. It does NOT matter if he did it himself or let someone else do it. He - as a trainer - has to make sure it doesn't happen. The suspension came at a bad timing for the sport, or maybe at a good timing too to make a stance against cheaters. If he doesn't simply get away with signing horses over to his brother and continue training via mobile phone ofc. :s And it also happened multiple times. If it happens once, I would make sure by informing myself about it (via google or whatever) to not ever make it happen again. So the statement that they did not even know what MS is, is just silly.

Well said. I agree with everything you wrote except the timing of it.

[The Tin Man]

Well said. I agree with everything you wrote except the timing of it.

There's one other part you shouldn't agree with Anne ... Per the report ... The horse wasn't "milkshaked" by anyone period.

They don't know what caused the high TCO2 reading ... But they say it wasn't "milkshaking".

[EquineAnne]

Thanks for looking out for me Buddy!

Just as an FYI, I have nothing against you. I enjoy you and your contributions. Pretty sure most do as well.

[The Tin Man]

Just as an FYI, I have nothing against you. I enjoy you and your contributions. Pretty sure most do as well.

Thanks Anne ... The appreciation is reciprocated.

[breezing]

tinny, has the CHRB ever used the term "milkshake" in any of their rulings or do they merely report the TCO2 level as being over the set limit?

[EquineAnne]

There's one other part you shouldn't agree with Anne ... Per the report ... The horse wasn't "milkshaked" by anyone period.

They don't know what caused the high TCO2 reading ... But they say it wasn't "milkshaking".

Tinny, I used to frequent the AOL boards. There was a poster that was a CA resident and had some kind of direct dealings in the business. Maybe family members, I don't know for certain. Anyway, I was given all kinds of $hit and grief when I followed Lava Man because Drug O'Neil was his trainer. According to this guy, DO was a known juicer. And the reason Lava Man was a success was DO's juice. Do I believe that juice was LM's reason for success? No. But c'mon, where there's smoke there's fire. Too many accusations, too many unfortunate occurrences. Throw in Bernadette and a few other "happenings" and you'd have to be blind to doubt that DO was not without guilt. That's all I'm saying. I hope he's seen the error of his ways and wish him well.

[The Tin Man]

tinny, has the CHRB ever used the term "milkshake" in any of their rulings or do they merely report the TCO2 level as being over the set limit?

Don't know ... I was just going verbatim from the Bloodhorse report ... And it says that O'Neill was found not guilty or giving the horse a milkshake and that a milkshake was NOT the cause of the TCO2 overage ...

I can only go by what the report says and take it literally. They emphasize it was not a milkshake that cause the overage.

[The Tin Man]

Tinny, I used to frequent the AOL boards. There was a poster that was a CA resident and had some kind of direct dealings in the business. Maybe family members, I don't know for certain. Anyway, I was given all kinds of $hit and grief when I followed Lava Man because Drug O'Neil was his trainer. According to this guy, DO was a known juicer. And the reason Lava Man was a success was DO's juice. Do I believe that juice was LM's reason for success? No. But c'mon, where there's smoke there's fire. Too many accusations, too many unfortunate occurrences. Throw in Bernadette and a few other "happenings" and you'd have to be blind to doubt that DO was not without guilt. That's all I'm saying. I hope he's seen the error of his ways and wish him well.

I don't know about the good old days ... As I didn't really know or interact with Doug then. I don't work in his barn, but I do go there from time to time and usually interact with him when I see him at the track. I also interact with several rescues and know a good amount of the horse people out here ... So all I can say is about now ... And from everything I see and hear from others in the here and now is that this guy is always doing charity appearances and donating to rescues and attending rescue fundraisers ...

Maybe he was a bad boy in the past ... But for whatever reason then, he does a heck of a lot of good now.

It just doesn't get nearly as much press as past indescretions ... And he doesn't go around crowing about it either. I see, I hear and others tell me of all he does.

Some can never forgive him for past indescretions, but I'm personally very grateful for all he does to help and aid the horses now. If he was cheating or uncaring in the past, I sure don't see it now. So I choose in that case to believe he's learned life lessons and is making amends.

[EquineAnne]

I don't know about the good old days ... As I didn't really know or interact with Doug then. I don't work in his barn, but I do go there from time to time and usually interact with him when I see him at the track. I also interact with several rescues and know a good amount of the horse people out here ... So all I can say is about now ... And from everything I see and hear from others in the here and now is that this guy is always doing charity appearances and donating to rescues and attending rescue fundraisers ...

Maybe he was a bad boy in the past ... But for whatever reason then, he does a heck of a lot of good now.

It just doesn't get nearly as much press as past indescretions ... And he doesn't go around crowing about it either. I see, I hear and others tell me of all he does.

Some can never forgive him for past indescretions, but I'm personally very grateful for all he does to help and aid the horses now. If he was cheating or uncaring in the past, I don't see it now. So I choose in that case to believe he's learned life lessons and is making amends.

I think you have a good perspective about everything. Can't change the past anyway. (can't change how folks feel either.) I vacillate...one minute I am furious that the CHRB is creating this fiasco now, at this time, and the next I hope DO fry's if he's hurt an animal, in any way. I hope he has learned his lesson. I hope his crimes were not atrocious and that any suffering he may have been responsible for was minor and not intentional.

[second_glance]

Don't know ... I was just going verbatim from the Bloodhorse report ... And it says that O'Neill was found not guilty or giving the horse a milkshake and that a milkshake was NOT the cause of the TCO2 overage ...

I can only go by what the report says and take it literally. They emphasize it was not a milkshake that cause the overage.

And yet he's still getting overages. So what's he doing?

BTW, California isn't the only jurisdiction where he's been tagged for this; however, he gets tagged for it more in CA than any other trainer. This doesn't suggest anything to you?

[Indychase]

I don't know about the good old days ... As I didn't really know or interact with Doug then. I don't work in his barn, but I do go there from time to time and usually interact with him when I see him at the track. I also interact with several rescues and know a good amount of the horse people out here ... So all I can say is about now ... And from everything I see and hear from others in the here and now is that this guy is always doing charity appearances and donating to rescues and attending rescue fundraisers ...

Maybe he was a bad boy in the past ... But for whatever reason then, he does a heck of a lot of good now.

It just doesn't get nearly as much press as past indescretions ... And he doesn't go around crowing about it either. I see, I hear and others tell me of all he does.

Some can never forgive him for past indescretions, but I'm personally very grateful for all he does to help and aid the horses now. If he was cheating or uncaring in the past, I sure don't see it now. So I choose in that case to believe he's learned life lessons and is making amends.

You do know it's possible to be a cheater on the track and still do good works in other areas of your life, right? You can 'push the envelope' to get ahead because you are a claiming trainer and frankly that's what most guys who operate mainly in the claiming ranks do and still have other interests like cancer research and horse rescue (maybe the latter is to assuage a guilty conscience).

You make it sound like's it's impossible that he can be cheating just because he lets a girl ride Lava Man and gives generously of his time off the track.

[The Tin Man]

And yet he's still getting overages. So what's he doing?

BTW, California isn't the only jurisdiction where he's been tagged for this; however, he gets tagged for it more in CA than any other trainer. This doesn't suggest anything to you?

I could have sworn this overage was a year and a half ago. Do you know of a newer one I've missed?

Actually Baffert has offended at a much higher clip than O'Neill.

I'm just curious ... Do you think I say he never does anything wrong? I'm certainly not saying that. Pretty much nearly all of them do ... I'm just pointing out the tons of good he does that gets discounted ...

You guys do a good enough job pointing out the bad ... I'm just balancing things out by pointing out the good also.

[second_glance]

- A range of 26.3mmol/l to 35.2mmol/l assumes that 1 normal horse in 1000 will fall outside this range.

- A range of 25.4mmol/l to 36.1mmol/l assumes that 1 normal horse in 10,000 will fall outside this range. This is obviously a more conservative range.

- A range of from 24.6mmol/l to 36.9mmol/l assumes that 1 normal horse in 100,000 will fall outside this range. This is an exceptionally conservative range.

http://www.harness.org.au/hra/papers/TC02Q-A.HTM

[Indychase]

I could have sworn this overage was a year and a half ago. Do you know of a newer one I've missed?

Actually Baffert has offended at a much higher clip than O'Neill.

No, he's figured out he can't milkshake to that extent. He does continue to get med overages:

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/Stewards/Ruli...P_11_06_56.pdf

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/Stewards/Ruli...A_11_11_38.pdf

[The Tin Man]

- A range of 26.3mmol/l to 35.2mmol/l assumes that 1 normal horse in 1000 will fall outside this range.

- A range of 25.4mmol/l to 36.1mmol/l assumes that 1 normal horse in 10,000 will fall outside this range. This is obviously a more conservative range.

- A range of from 24.6mmol/l to 36.9mmol/l assumes that 1 normal horse in 100,000 will fall outside this range. This is an exceptionally conservative range.

http://www.harness.org.au/hra/papers/TC02Q-A.HTM

Just for clarification to those who don't read the link ... This is a chart or ranges for TCO2 ...

[The Tin Man]

No, he's figured out he can't milkshake to that extent. He does continue to get med overages:

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/Stewards/Ruli...P_11_06_56.pdf

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/Stewards/Ruli...A_11_11_38.pdf

I have no idea what those violations are ... I'm not a vet ...

That being said, one of them is 15 months ago ... Not exactly new.

The other one, Naturaliste, in September last year ... I'll give you as fairly recent. But I don't know what the offense was, since I'm not a vet.

Question ... Have any other SoCal trainers had offenses within the last 15 months or is it just O'Neill?

Seems like a very targeted witch hunt here.

[The Tin Man]

I'll tell you what guys ... I'm out for the night, so you guys have fun with the O'Neill flogathon ...

You're right. He's a demon from Hell and people never change their stripes. You finally convinced me ... Have fun ... I'm bored with this ... Enjoy!

[Indychase]

I have no idea what those violations are ... I'm not a vet ...

That being said, one of them is 15 months ago ... Not exactly new.

The other one, Naturaliste, in September last year ... I'll give you as fairly recent. But I don't know what the offense was, since I'm not a vet.

Question ... Have any other SoCal trainers had offenses within the last 15 months or is it just O'Neill?

Seems like a very targeted witch hunt here.

Really? You don't know what Bute is? Maybe you should do a little research. A few bleeder medication overages, but the only other painkiller overage was Marcelo Polanco in April 2011. (which Etodolac and Bute are painkillers). And Baffert hasn't had any. There haven't been any other milkshake cites either. (I didn't look at all the Fairplex rulings, there might have been some there because I'm not as familiar with the trainers there).

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/stewards_rulings_sa.html

[Indychase]

I'll tell you what guys ... I'm out for the night, so you guys have fun with the O'Neill flogathon ...

You're right. He's a demon from Hell and people never change their stripes. You finally convinced me ... Have fun ... I'm bored with this ... Enjoy!

Typical.