Yeah god curse them, I know if Breeders' Cup Distaff winner Unbridled Elaine was in my barn I wouldn't breed her.Originally Posted by KEYSTONE-KING
Yeah god curse them, I know if Breeders' Cup Distaff winner Unbridled Elaine was in my barn I wouldn't breed her.
Are you saying that the perceived "weakness" originates with Unbridled's Song? What made his genes "weak"? Unbridled? Please show us your analysis of Unbridled's Song's pedigree, including siblings and half-siblings and their offspring.
KEYSTONE, you need to go back and reread halo's post.
here is a nice read on him
http://www.reines-de-course.com/unbridled's_song.htm
Can you demonstrate that horses by Unbridled's Song make fewer starts or break down more often than the national average, and that these breakdowns are due only to pedigree?
If not, these claims cannot be made.
I'll give you an example.
Chelokee and Barbaro were both inbred to Nashua 4Sx5D. Chelokee and Barbaro both broke down. Nashua is a source of unsoundness.
Do you see how that does not work?
It isn't weak genes so much as lousy training practices. US is very tall. So are most of his offspring. If his get are not given time to develop the bones and ligaments aren't ready for extreme stress. Start them a bit later and you would have fewer breakdowns. Same reasoning as not expecting a 7 foot tall 16 year old kid to play basketball against 7 foot tall adults. The bones aren't mature. The kid breaks down, too. My nephew was a 6'6" freshman pitcher for his University. He had to have Tommy John surgery before he had finished his freshman year.
Nowadays, it's all rushing to get them through two year old sales. Then get them into the 2 year old stakes. Then the TC trail. US get are very talented. They figure prominently all through the sales, juvie stakes and TC Trail. But modern day trainers, either because of "hurry get my money back" newcomer owners or poor mentoring by older trainers, rush these huge youngsters until something's just got to give. It's usually the 2 year old's knee or ankle.
The great big 2 year old is all the fashion now. Then they try to get it racing in May or June, get it in the 2 year old sale in Feb. Force it to run faster than the bones are ready for.
Then some dimwit gets to claim they are unsound.
what more do you need to see ? the link I sent you to was written by a well known american pedigree tracer Ron Parker.
It's called science. What I did not see in that article is a comparison of the number of starts and breakdowns of horses by UBS vs. the national average of starts and breakdowns. I also did not see evidence that no other agent but pedigree is responsible for such stats. Without those, I cannot be convinced. No one who actually cares about knowledge could.
do you have the national average of starts and breakdown stats handy ?
Get to work--it won't be too hard. Several databases and media outlets have been doing studies, some better than others (steer clear of the NYT). You're making the positive claim, the proof is up to you. I have handicapping to do.
You'll also need the starts/breakdowns of every UBS offspring--for his entire breeding career. Have fun.
your the one asking about the science, I could care less about UBS
Is that why you are typing replies in this thread?
Last edited by ElPrado1; 08-03-2012 at 01:48 PM.
You're the one who made the initial post. Correct? Are you saying you came to your opinion because of a blog and a high-profile breakdown four years ago, but cannot back it up beyond that?
i made the post because its well know that he doesnt produce the most sound horses
Well known by Internet posters, perhaps. Internet posters also know that the Rapture is happening on the 22nd (probably something to do with Frankel) and the discovery of the Higgs particle means some scientists photographed God. If an actual study has been done, the information I ask for should be easy to find. Can you find it for me?
It's also well known that you can't spell or punctuate.
Google it
You Google it and give it to me. You made the statement, you must defend it. (This is another lesson in science.)
Seek and ye shall find.
Notably not a scientific source.I already know no such study has been done. Take a look at the careers of top horses. Eclipse winners, graded stakes winners. Compare the number of starts and the fates of top racers by UBS and those not by him. Tell me what you find. Now pick a few claimers and compare their starts. Some by UBS, some not. Find some geldings--some by UBS, some not. Compare their number of starts. Tell me what you find. My prediction is that UBS gets the same number of starts and injuries per precocious two-year-old, top horse, and bottom-level horse as other sires. He's just been demonized since '08 as people tried to find blame for the Eight Belles tragedy and couldn't blame her connections because they were so nice.
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