poll: is Gloria de Campeao a "world champion" ?

[The_Knight_Sky]

[table][tr][td] DRF's Steven Crist

Instead, it remains entirely unclear what this World Cup proved other than Bob Baffert's adage that synthetic tracks make good horses look ordinary and ordinary horses look good. (And put down your torches -- this has nothing to with Zenyatta, a transcendently great horse who handles everything and is probably as good or better on dirt than on synthetics.)

[/td][/tr][tr][td][size=7pt][img width=500 height=340]http://i41.tinypic.com/2dqpowi.jpg[/img]

TBC members and lurkers may vote at the main server.
Results shown in real-time after you vote. [/size][/td][/tr][/table]

Sure, plenty of major dirt races end with befuddling finishes (cf. Kentucky Derby, 2005 and 2009) and there were even bigger upsets on grass today than on Tapeta. But in the past, the World Cup was a true showcase for champions, such as Cigar, Silver Charm, Dubai Milennium, Invasor and Curlin. Now? Step right up and spin the wheel. :lipsrsealed:

[whbar158]

He showed up and won, long shots win all the time. I still am unsure who people think we could have sent over there regardless of surface and would have done well? Yes top horses have gone over there and killed most of their racing season over here.

If the race had been dirt who would have gone? Some 3rd tier dirt horses from here (because right now what do you have as proven older horses that would have gone?) would have beaten some turf horses running on dirt for a big check. Some horses that were suppose to run big (and had over the surface) didn't do well and the race fell apart a little just like any race can regardless of surface.

I am still not sure what is wrong with having a horse that does well exclusively on the sythn if your horse doesn't handle it well then don't race on it. I do not think that our Championship races should be run on it 2 years in a row, but really I have no problem with the surface. As with any race that horse was best that day for whatever reason. Imagine if we had sent a horse like QR and they won I doubt we would be complaining about the surface.

[chinook pass]

[quote author=The_Knight_Sky link=topic=41943.msg922671#msg922671 date=1269979224] Now? Step right up and spin the wheel. :lipsrsealed:
[/quote]

My spin landed on Almutawakel.

Oh well.

[weatherbird]

who is claiming that the winner of this race is a "world champion"? In other words, who are we agreeing with if we answer "YES" in your poll? They put up 10 million and invited the world to participate. It's the Breeders Cup which claims to crown "world champions", not the DWC day of races.

[The_Knight_Sky]

[quote author=weatherbird link=topic=41943.msg922705#msg922705 date=1269983324]

[size=11pt]who is claiming that the winner of this race is a "world champion"? [/size]

[/quote]

A: The Mad Genius as recently as last week.
[size=7pt]http://gulfnews.com/sport/horse-racing/meydan-track-awaits-the-best-1.602130[/size]

If you're wondering which horse will win the $10 million
(Dh36.7 million) Dubai World Cup (Group 1) on Saturday, the man who created
the racing surface on which the world's richest race will be run, has offered the answer.

"The best horse in the world will be crowned champion," said its creator,

Michael Dickinson at Meydan racecourse yesterday. "Unlike some of the other
race tracks we don't want the surface to dictate who will win, this surface
will produce the true world champion.

[GreenasGrass]

Who? Oh, is that the horse that won the Dubai Meydan Cup? When was the last time he won anything?

[TizTheOne]

Nobody is a world champion in horse racing.

However, all these idiots that think only dirt racing can decide anything are basically the same type of people that think that Aqueduct is a better track than Del Mar because it is run on dirt.

Everyone knows what surface they are running on and if a race has a $10 million dollar purse and another race has a $5 million purse, I know I would prefer to win the $10 million one.

[Commentator]

[quote author=GreenasGrass link=topic=41943.msg922715#msg922715 date=1269985342]
Who? Oh, is that the horse that won the Dubai Meydan Cup? When was the last time he won anything?
[/quote]January?

[quote author=chinook pass link=topic=41943.msg922703#msg922703 date=1269982565]
[quote author=The_Knight_Sky link=topic=41943.msg922671#msg922671 date=1269979224] Now? Step right up and spin the wheel. :lipsrsealed:
[/quote]

My spin landed on Almutawakel.

Oh well.
[/quote]Mine landed on Moon Ballad

[weatherbird]

[quote author=The_Knight_Sky link=topic=41943.msg922713#msg922713 date=1269984510]
[quote author=weatherbird link=topic=41943.msg922705#msg922705 date=1269983324]

[size=11pt]who is claiming that the winner of this race is a "world champion"? [/size]

[/quote]

A: The Mad Genius as recently as last week.
[size=7pt]http://gulfnews.com/sport/horse-racing/meydan-track-awaits-the-best-1.602130[/size]

If you're wondering which horse will win the $10 million
(Dh36.7 million) Dubai World Cup (Group 1) on Saturday, the man who created
the racing surface on which the world's richest race will be run, has offered the answer.

"The best horse in the world will be crowned champion," said its creator,

Michael Dickinson at Meydan racecourse yesterday. "Unlike some of the other
race tracks we don't want the surface to dictate who will win, this surface
will produce the true world champion.
[/quote]
more "mad" than "genius" these days...

[Kayrite]

I don't think any one race can determine a "world champion", but I don't really understand the suggestion that Gloria de Campeao came out of nowhere either. He's a multiple GSW and a winner on all three surfaces, he ran second in the DWC last year, and this year he was a neck away from winning two rounds of the Maktoum Challenge. He seems like a pretty legit winner to me.

[Viva Pataca]

The Dubai World Cup result proved that Gloria was the first horse crossing the wire in that particular race on that particular day. That's basically it. Simple as that.

[Hermes Redux]

So Well Armed was WORLD CHAMPION horse last year? Ah. You know, this would have been VERY helpful info last fall when the Sea The Stars v Rachel v Zenyatta wars broke out. But now you tell us...

A different take on Crist's diatribe:

http://www.troyrecord.com/articles/2...b854309848.txt

[Psychotic Parakeet]

I smell sour grapes here.

[whbar158]

[quote author=Psychotic Parakeet link=topic=41943.msg922780#msg922780 date=1269994838]
I smell sour grapes here.
[/quote]

Me too, I still don't know why it is bad to have a horse that does well on sythn, why it makes that horse any less good. I understand it was billed as being like dirt, but its not it is like its own surface, so does winning on dirt mean you are a better horse than one that has won on sythn? All else equal? I understand a horse is a much better horse if they can win on whatever surface that is placed in front of it, but lets face it most horses aren't that talented. So other horses who have won the DWC have never lost? Never got beat by a fair amount at some point in their career?

[Bozo]

Since the turf and Tapeta are the same... the World Champion will not be decided until Dar Re Me the world champion of Turf takes on the Tapeta Champion Gloria. Then they will have to take on Zenyatta who is the world pro ride champion and that champion will take on the World dirt champion whoever that is.

Then Jess Jackson and Goldophin will get in a bidding war to buy the horse and the bidding will not stop until the One Trillion dollar mark unless of course it is Zenyatta.

:grin:

[terpsichorist]

Dickinson will always continue marketing Tapeta.
He also said once Zenyatta was over rated.
Think he changed his mind.

Hard not to like him though

[Commentator]

What I find amusing is the fact that, had any of the favorites won, people would now be complaining about how the surface was clearly just catering to turf horses. Instead, a horse with actual dirt form wins, in a typically dirt-horse way, and immediately invalidates the whole thing because he went off at... what, 16-1? Because that is clearly the first upset in the whole history of the race...

I'm also a bit confused by all this talk of Invasor and Curlin and Cigar, as if Gloria De Campeao's victory is somehow besmirching their names. Just imagine the furor if a turf horse had won the race while it was still on dirt! Oh, wait...

[Noble]

Had we sent Zenyatta and she won the DWC, I wouldn't hear any complaining from Crist.

Then some of the Eastern folks who called her a "synthetic specialist" will start calling her "world champion." Our 2009 best older horse (of either gender) was not sent there, so if an unfamiliar name to Americans wins the race, we complain.

I love the hypocrisy. When we don't send any runners to Dubai, we complain. When our horses win the DWC, we complain about the recovery time. We complain when our horses win, lose, and when they get sent there or don't get sent there.

[Hermes Redux]

Handicappers don't matter to me anywhere near as much as the horses do. And even if they did, they can line up all the way around the Meydan track 3 deep to the rail, and ain't nothing going to change for them. Drink that whine.

To any handicapper that claims they didn't see Gloria as a logical play, I say you should NOT be betting on horses. Gio was beat less than 2 lengths off a slow pace. Give me a break.

[Psychotic Parakeet]

[quote author=Noble link=topic=41943.msg922795#msg922795 date=1269996974]
Had we sent Zenyatta and she won the DWC, I wouldn't hear any complaining from Crist.[/quote]

Let alone, some people here too. Might add Life is Sweet to that note, if she was healthy enough. Even if she did make it, I have my doubts that she would have not been able to catch the winner.