would you guys PLEASE run horses where they belong!!!

[Songofthesword]

Rouge Romance rumps in the bourbon, and you run him in the BC juve.

Paddy might be the best turf horse in the country, and he's going to be an also ran in the classic. He might be an also ran to the also rans.


evening jewel can run in the f and m turf, the lady's classic, possibly even the mile (not really) and you are toying with the idea of the bc f and m sprint.

Mine that bird, wins the derby, runs his but off in the Belmont and you put him in the BC mile.


Gio Ponti does not belong in the classic on dirt.


WOULD YOU PLEASE GIVE YOUR HORSES A CHANCE IN WINNING BY RUNNING THEM WHERE THEY BELONG!



/rant

[Harrison Bergeron]

Rouge Romance rumps in the bourbon, and you run him in the BC juve.

Paddy might be the best turf horse in the country, and he's going to be an also ran in the classic. He might be an also ran to the also rans.


evening jewel can run in the f and m turf, the lady's classic, possibly even the mile (not really) and you are toying with the idea of the bc f and m sprint.

Mine that bird, wins the derby, runs his but off in the Belmont and you put him in the BC mile.


Gio Ponti does not belong in the classic on dirt.


WOULD YOU PLEASE GIVE YOUR HORSES A CHANCE IN WINNING BY RUNNING THEM WHERE THEY BELONG!



/rant

Here you go!

[songbird1]

Great post; thank you; this is just what i've been thinking.

[second_glance]

Rouge Romance rumps in the bourbon, and you run him in the BC juve.

Um, it's Rogue, not Rouge. While I'm not jumping with joy over the decision to send him to the Juvenile, I will point out that, unlike Paddy, his breeding is for dirt and the plan was to put him on dirt eventually anyway. RR ran on turf in NY because they decided early on that he's a 2-turn horse and if you want to begin there in NY, you start on turf. Had Leparoux been available, RR would have gone in the Futurity at KEE rather than the Bourbon. Moreover, RR's strength right now is that last 1/16th of a mile-and-a-sixteenth, but the Juvy Turf is only a mile, and Europe seems to turn out good turf milers by the dozen who have that kind of move at that distance.

It's a gamble, but in the long run, assuming RR has a long run (as that is defined in modern times), losing this race might not mean much. Winning or even showing well, of course, could mean a lot. Either way, they should learn some important things about the colt and his proper future.

[Suni]

Evening Jewel would get obliterated in the F&M Turf considering she gets late at 9f. The F&M Sprint might actually be the best fit based on odds for her on the BC program, unlike the situations for Paddy & Gio. The Mile might be her true best fit but it's overloaded with better horses.

[reverberate]

[QUOTE=Songofthesword;129206]Rouge Romance rumps in the bourbon, and you run him in the BC juve.


he's going to run dirt eventually

[The Tin Man]

Rouge Romance rumps in the bourbon, and you run him in the BC juve.

Paddy might be the best turf horse in the country, and he's going to be an also ran in the classic. He might be an also ran to the also rans.


evening jewel can run in the f and m turf, the lady's classic, possibly even the mile (not really) and you are toying with the idea of the bc f and m sprint.

Mine that bird, wins the derby, runs his but off in the Belmont and you put him in the BC mile.


Gio Ponti does not belong in the classic on dirt.


WOULD YOU PLEASE GIVE YOUR HORSES A CHANCE IN WINNING BY RUNNING THEM WHERE THEY BELONG!



/rant

I agree with all of this except that Gio will do better than you think if he runs in The Classic ... But granted ... He'd have a better chance of winning elsewhere ... But he's got a great shot at hitting the board in The Classic at least.

[justinnich]

I've gotta believe with Paddy the thinking is that the Classic is most likely to help his value as a stallion. He's worth a whole lot more if he can compete at classic distances on the dirt than if he appears one dimensional for the turf. While I'm a big fan of turf racing and I don't love the fact that owners have to think this way, the reality is that Paddy's not proven on the surface that brings the most $$$ in stud value. What, really, could the BC Turf do for his value? He's already the best 3yo turf colt in the country and the likelihood is he won't beat the best of the best from Europe. If he were to somehow run ahead of LAL in the Classic, he could make a claim to be the best 3yo on any surface in the US.

[Happy Endings]

I've gotta believe with Paddy the thinking is that the Classic is most likely to help his value as a stallion. He's worth a whole lot more if he can compete at classic distances on the dirt than if he appears one dimensional for the turf. While I'm a big fan of turf racing and I don't love the fact that owners have to think this way, the reality is that Paddy's not proven on the surface that brings the most $$$ in stud value. What, really, could the BC Turf do for his value? He's already the best 3yo turf colt in the country and the likelihood is he won't beat the best of the best from Europe. If he were to somehow run ahead of LAL in the Classic, he could make a claim to be the best 3yo on any surface in the US.

This is exactly the thinking and they have been quoted in the press as saying as much. It's not a dumb move at all.

[The Tin Man]

This is exactly the thinking and they have been quoted in the press as saying as much. It's not a dumb move at all.

Will it still be a wise move when Paddy doesn't hit the board? Because I sincerely think he won't.

On turf, I'd be tempted to pick him to win ... On dirt against this bunch, I don't see him as having any chance to hit the board.

I could be wrong, but if I'm not ... Were his connections wise then?

[Happy Endings]

Will it still be a wise move when Paddy doesn't hit the board? Because I sincerely think he won't.

On turf, I'd be tempted to pick him to win ... On dirt against this bunch, I don't see him as having any chance to hit the board.

I could be wrong, but if I'm not ... Were his connections wise then?

He might not hit the board in either race. Might as well pick the one that could do the most for his stud value. A piece of the Classic purse means more $ than a piece of the Turf, and more money for them in the long run when it comes to stud fees. It's a calculated risk and theirs to take. El Prado has sired dirt runners and there is dirt on Paddy's female side, too, so maybe he could do better on dirt than is assumed by many.

[second_glance]

Will it still be a wise move when Paddy doesn't hit the board? Because I sincerely think he won't.

On turf, I'd be tempted to pick him to win ... On dirt against this bunch, I don't see him as having any chance to hit the board.

I could be wrong, but if I'm not ... Were his connections wise then?

Did anyone say it is a wise move? I think the connections see it as a calculated risk. They've said they want to bring him back at 4; so far he appears to be a very sound horse. So he takes a shot here; if it doesn't work, he goes back to turf next year, where they think they already have a good sense of his stud value and can probably up that a bit. I don't see much of a downside, assuming the horse stays sound and is in form next year.

I like it because I'm tired of both owners and fans treating every loss as though it's the death knell to a horse's career and therefore being afraid to lose.

[Songofthesword]

I will even go so far as to say that the bc turf is like the irish st. ledger... it's so far, you don't' want to win it lol becuase you will be considered a plodder.

but still. horse has less than 0% chance of hitting the board.

[Valiant-Nature]

I will even go so far as to say that the bc turf is like the irish st. ledger... it's so far, you don't' want to win it lol becuase you will be considered a plodder.

but still. horse has less than 0% chance of hitting the board.

It's St. Leger, not Ledger. And it's restricted to 3YOs. At 14 furlongs it is consistent with the Belmont Stakes for dirt 3YOs. 12 furlongs, OTOH, is the Classic distance in turf racing. Nothing "plodder" about it.

[The Tin Man]

He might not hit the board in either race. Might as well pick the one that could do the most for his stud value. A piece of the Classic purse means more $ than a piece of the Turf, and more money for them in the long run when it comes to stud fees. It's a calculated risk and theirs to take. El Prado has sired dirt runners and there is dirt on Paddy's female side, too, so maybe he could do better on dirt than is assumed by many.

I just don't see any way he finishes ahead of Zenny, QR, Lucky or Blame in The Classic ... Likely not ahead of Gio either ... I just don't think an off the board finish will benefit him at all.

In all honesty, I'm thinking 8th for him. If he hits the board, I'll be very suprised and impressed. I actually like the horse, believe it or not. THAT'S why I'd rather see him have a chyance to excel on Turf than get smoked on dirt. IMHO of course.

[The Tin Man]

Did anyone say it is a wise move? I think the connections see it as a calculated risk. They've said they want to bring him back at 4; so far he appears to be a very sound horse. So he takes a shot here; if it doesn't work, he goes back to turf next year, where they think they already have a good sense of his stud value and can probably up that a bit. I don't see much of a downside, assuming the horse stays sound and is in form next year.

I like it because I'm tired of both owners and fans treating every loss as though it's the death knell to a horse's career and therefore being afraid to lose.

Well ... Verbatim ... Someone said "It's not a dumb move at all." ... Kinda nitpicky there eh SG? Kinda insinuated that they thought it a good move. Which I have NO problem with someone having a differing opinion than mine ... I'm just expressing that mine differs. Time will tell if it was a "wise" move or not by the connections. I think it's an "unwise" move and very risky. We'll soon know either way. ;-)

Were I a BIG fan of Paddy's I would cheer for him to NOT hit the board in The Classic ... Because if he does, he's retired. If he doesn't, he will run again as a 4 year old.

And yes ... I know the connections have stated he runs either way ... But if he ups his stud value significantly in The Classic ... He's retired ... IMHO. It's just the way the game is played these days ... Unfortunately.

[second_glance]

It's a very expensive place to find out if your horse likes a surface or not -- I see $150,000 worth of downside. ;-)

LOL. They paid $105,000 for him; he's earned $1,451,297. They've got the money to play with, if they want.

[weatherbird]

It's St. Leger, not Ledger. And it's restricted to 3YOs. At 14 furlongs it is consistent with the Belmont Stakes for dirt 3YOs. 12 furlongs, OTOH, is the Classic distance in turf racing. Nothing "plodder" about it.

actually, the St. Leger (3rd leg of English Triple Crown) is restricted to 3YO's but the Irish St. Leger is for 3 & Up (maybe 4 & Up).

[Valiant-Nature]

actually, the St. Leger (3rd leg of English Triple Crown) is restricted to 3YO's but the Irish St. Leger is for 3 & Up (maybe 4 & Up).

My bad, I was thinking about the British version. Is the Irish side also 14 furlongs?

[arkle]

It's a very expensive place to find out if your horse likes a surface or not -- I see $150,000 worth of downside. ;-)

They have already run him over not only the surface, but the surface and distance at this very track.

Not sure why so many people are down on this move. In a field where so many of the runners have question marks about surface and/or track and/or distance, he is one of the few that has run over this exact course and performed respectably. His alternative is to run in a race at distance that he seemed to be suspect at when he attempted it and he'll be up against several heavy hitters that are confirmed 12f animals.
I think the people that are aghast at him not running in the Turf probably have an overinflated opinion of his ability on grass... putting too much store in his Col/Va/Derby/Sec stakes wins.