The downside of having a blatantly speed favoring track ...

[Native Diver]

Z's career is now history. Who cares what effect the new track might have had on her career? It is never going to happen. We will never, ever know. That is because time only moves FORWARD. Not backwards. You can speculate on how any number of factors may have affected a horse's record, from the track, to the routine, to trip they got, and on and on and on. If ya'll have that kind of time to kill, go ahead.

Maybe the closers there can change up their strategy, stay closer to the pace if they can. IF. I can't help but think the track might take corrective action of some form with the track, if they lose enough horses to other tracks, and the other issues as well cause enough dust up (pun intended).

[Hermes]

There will be plenty of sand in that track soon enough. Just hard for Tedesco to keep the happy medium composition for speed v. closers...and the white haired guy.

[BARNFOUR]

Maybe the closers there can change up their strategy, stay closer to the pace if they can. IF. I can't help but think the track might take corrective action of some form with the track, if they lose enough horses to other tracks, and the other issues as well cause enough dust up (pun intended).

When a track is that speed favoring the closers are screwed.If they try to sit closer they usually won't have the same finish.It is good for the astute handicapper though....

[The Tin Man]

Z's career is now history. Who cares what effect the new track might have had on her career? It is never going to happen. We will never, ever know. That is because time only moves FORWARD. Not backwards. You can speculate on how any number of factors may have affected a horse's record, from the track, to the routine, to trip they got, and on and on and on. If ya'll have that kind of time to kill, go ahead.

Maybe the closers there can change up their strategy, stay closer to the pace if they can. IF. I can't help but think the track might take corrective action of some form with the track, if they lose enough horses to other tracks, and the other issues as well cause enough dust up (pun intended).

Just to make the purpose of this thread clear ... It was just to comment on how the way Santa Anita is running right now, those with closers seem to be thinking of running them elsewhere.

I agree with you ... They should just adjust and run them closer to the pace and not leaving them with SO much to do late.

Rosario, in particular, seems to be having a very hard time making that adjustment. He's been killing me whenever he's on a closer. To the point where I'm not playing him if he's on a closer. Even though he's a great jock, I'm just not using him on closers at SA anymore unless I see the track play differently or see him adjust.

[Hermes]

Yup.Someday she's going to make some girl a wonderful husband..

Aww, going for a new low, Barntrollbeenfour 'cause you get your a$$ handed to you by me every time? "Here Lassie, here girl!! No, here Lassie!!!! Bark when you find it!!!"

[FlowerEssence]

Yet another thread turned to crap.

[BARNFOUR]

.

[BARNFOUR]

Aww, going for a new low, Barntrollbeenfour 'cause you get your a$$ handed to you by me every time? "Here Lassie, here girl!! No, here Lassie!!!! Bark when you find it!!!"

That is so sharp.....wow,I'm impressed.

[The Tin Man]

When a track is that speed favoring the closers are screwed.If they try to sit closer they usually won't have the same finish.It is good for the astute handicapper though....

The astute handicapper just isn't going to play a closer, especially a deep one, to win at Santa Anita right now. Not unless riding tactics or the surface changes.

You know ... Even more than Blind Luck not being able to close ... I keep going back to a lower level claimer, Lemon Drop Ridge not being able to dust a clearly inferior field about a week ago. Rosario had the mount and ran her like 10 back going into the last furlong or two. She made up 9 of the lengths, but was sent WAY too late.

It got me to thinking and then realizing that Rosario just doesn't seem to be realizing that he needs to alter his style on these deep closers and he's just not grasping that concept. Hard to believ he wouldn't, but the proof is on the pudding. Next time he's on a deep closer on dirt, pay attention and you'll see what I mean. He's not adjusting to the track.

[Hermes]

Just to make the purpose of this thread clear ... It was just to comment on how the way Santa Anita is running right now, those with closers seem to be thinking of running them elsewhere.

I agree with you ... They should just adjust and run them closer to the pace and not leaving them with SO much to do late.

Rosario, in particular, seems to be having a very hard time making that adjustment. He's been killing me whenever he's on a closer. To the point where I'm not playing him if he's on a closer. Even though he's a great jock, I'm just not using him on closers at SA anymore unless I see the track play differently or see him adjust.

Tinny, a horse can't be made to change his style just 'cause you'd like him to make your bet a winning one. And not Rosario's fault every time either. He seems to play the track just fine to me, if any jock is mounted on a closer right now he is at a disadvantage. If you aren't playing speed right now, you need to look in the mirror. That said , look out on Thursday when the track has been rototilled on the dark days to mix in the new sand to slow it down.

ps and Rosario not only is not going to successfully change a closer's style, he has to ride to instructions to a degree as well. It is not like everyone in the world doesn't know about the speed bias.

[Hermes]

That is so sharp.....wow,I'm impressed.

More like you are at a loss for a comeback of any kind. Barny, ya wanna play in the big wood, ya gotta bring a bat.

[BARNFOUR]

The astute handicapper just isn't going to play a closer, especially a deep one, to win at Santa Anita right now. Not unless riding tactics or the surface changes.

You know ... Even more than Blind Luck not being able to close ... I keep going back to a lower level claimer, Lemon Drop Ridge not being able to dust a clearly inferior field about a week ago. Rosario had the mount and ran her like 10 back going into the last furlong or two. She made up 9 of the lengths, but was sent WAY too late.

It got me to thinking and then realizing that Rosario just doesn't seem to be realizing that he needs to alter his style on these deep closers and he's just not grasping that concept. Hard to believ he wouldn't, but the proof is on the pudding. Next time he's on a deep closer on dirt, pay attention and you'll see what I mean. He's not adjusting to the track.

Tiny,when a jock forces a deep closer to stay closer they rarely finish.You can maybe keep a stalker closer and have success but rarely can it be done with a deep closer on this type of track...

[BARNFOUR]

More like you are at a loss for a comeback of any kind. Barny, ya wanna play in the big wood, ya gotta bring a bat.

No comeback needed when you post something my 4 year old nephew would be embarrassed to post.....just sayin'

[The Tin Man]

Tinny, a horse can't be made to change his style just 'cause you'd like him to make your bet a winning one. And not Rosario's fault every time either. He seems to play the track just fine to me, if any jock is mounted on a closer right now he is at a disadvantage. If you aren't playing speed right now, you need to look in the mirror. That said , look out on Thursday when the track has been rototilled on the dark days to mix in the new sand to slow it down.

Let's hope the track is balanced somewhat soon.

And I wasn't asking for closers to have their style totally changed. Just run a lottle closer to the pace. I'm mainly talking about horses running 8 to 10 lengths behind needing to maybe change it to 5 lengths. Still close, but not from so damn far back.

And yep ... I was slow on this one. (Peanut gallery feel free to chime in). I only within the last week or so caught on that betting on closers who seemd "MUCH THE BEST" was what was killing my exotics. I knew they were at some disadvantage, but I was thinking the REALLY good closers would still come through based on talent. But that was not the case.

Oh well ... Better late than never. Unless Zenyatta comes back, I'm not betting any deep closers to win on the SA dirt no matter how "much the best" they look ... Until I see the bias change.

[Hermes]

No comeback needed when you post something my 4 year old nephew would be embarrassed to post.....just sayin'

Ah, you hang with a 4 yr old to inspire your internet missives. It is all making more sense now.

[The Tin Man]

.

[Hermes]

Yet another thread turned to crap.

Barntrollhasbeenfour regularly leaves gifts.

[JT Dancer]

Hopefully, the track can be slowed down and the bias lessened. I really want California racing to succeed; I love Santa Anita and don't want to see them lose even more horses to other tracks that better suit certain running styles.

That said, if Hollendorfer wants to send Blind Luck and Dakota Phone to Fair Grounds for a couple of months, I won't complain

[Spahny]

Zenyatta won her El Encino over a track that was far more speed bias than this one. That was the track Bob Black Jack found fame on and Monterey Jazz set an unofficial track record for a mile while winning the 9 furlong Strub. Hollywood Park has never been speed bias. This track has been fast but horses have been closing to win if they are good enough.

It looks like ordinary good closers are the ones who need the bias excuses.

[islandgirl45]

Herpes,I didn't lose cause I didn't have a dog in the fight.You Z nuts are way too sensitive.Simple question,If this track was installed 3 years ago would the great John Shirreffs have raced Zenyatta over a surface with such a speed bias.If anyone else had asked this question there would have been a discussion.

Santa Anita is already being adjusted to add more sand. If it had been installed three years ago as a new track it would have been adjusted then too, to make it play as fair as possible. Which exposes your breathless "Would Zenyatta have raced there, huh, huh, would she, answer me?" as the childish nonsense it is.

Lastly, dear God BarnFour, could you just shut up about Zenyatta? She's retired for good! Act like an adult and end this stubborn, stupid obsession with her so you don't continue to look foolish.