Rachel Rachel Rachel All Rachel Rachel The Rachel Time Rachel!...2010!!

[Ezariah]

They may take Miss Z east after the BC, but they have said on numerous occasions that she won't be shipping anywhere before the BC.


[quote author=Alex link=topic=34061.msg788952#msg788952 date=1250802660]
[quote author=WesternDreamer link=topic=34061.msg788906#msg788906 date=1250797961]
Shirreffs has made it pretty clear Zenyatta will never come East before the BC[/quote]

Are you sure about that? I'm surprised I haven't seen the following quote from an August 17th article anywhere in this forum:

Shirreffs, who had previously expressed concern about shipping Zenyatta to New York because of NYRA's race-day security barn policy, said he's not against shipping her east.

"As far as going to New York, I'd love to take Zenyatta back there and have her be seen there," he said. "I'm from Long Island. One of my wishes in life is to spend some time at Belmont Park."
[/quote]

[Rick1323]

We already know JJ is a whore. He is just negotiating his price. Pa would be a real whore move though.

[Roc525]

Hey, Jess. Do not go to PA. For once, ignore the money. Thanks.

[WesternDreamer]

[quote author=Alex link=topic=34061.msg788952#msg788952 date=1250802660]
[quote author=WesternDreamer link=topic=34061.msg788906#msg788906 date=1250797961]
Shirreffs has made it pretty clear Zenyatta will never come East before the BC[/quote]

Are you sure about that?
[/quote]

He stated in June that he won't bring Zenyatta back east because it was "too close" to the BC and they were prepping on the track where the BC was held. I distinctly remember it because of the "too close" comment; there were plenty of people questioning why June was too close to the BC to ship her elsewhere for a race. I've seen other quotes that he left the possibility open after the BC, depending what happens, but not before.

[Whos the Cowboy]

[quote author=WesternDreamer link=topic=34061.msg789033#msg789033 date=1250810703]
[quote author=Alex link=topic=34061.msg788952#msg788952 date=1250802660]
[quote author=WesternDreamer link=topic=34061.msg788906#msg788906 date=1250797961]
Shirreffs has made it pretty clear Zenyatta will never come East before the BC[/quote]

Are you sure about that?
[/quote]

He stated in June that he won't bring Zenyatta back east because it was "too close" to the BC and they were prepping on the track where the BC was held. I distinctly remember it because of the "too close" comment; there were plenty of people questioning why June was too close to the BC to ship her elsewhere for a race. I've seen other quotes that he left the possibility open after the BC, depending what happens, but not before.
[/quote]
But to get HOY, they'll try RA anywhere, any time.
In June, Zenyatta's connections believed that they had HOY sewed up-right now, they don't-Rachel does. They need to beat Rachel Alexandra to get back in the running for HOY

[slinky malinky]

[quote author=Roc525 link=topic=34061.msg789031#msg789031 date=1250810555]
Hey, Jess. Do not go to PA. For once, ignore the money. Thanks.
[/quote]

Okay....why should he?

If you assume that Jess Jackson plans to keep donating all her earnings to charity AND that he wants to set his star filly up for a Horse of the Year (she's already got 3yofilly lock stock and barrel), then it makes no sense whatsoever to run her in places where she isn't heavily favoured to win. It makes no sense whatsoever to run her against Zenyatta, no sense to put her on grass for a race with Goldikova, and makes no sense whatsoever to try and get a piece of Quality Road. It does make sense to put her in prestige spots that don't actually have a lot of depth in the field.

[karmamaker]

[quote author=Whos the Cowboy link=topic=34061.msg789168#msg789168 date=1250829255]
[quote author=WesternDreamer link=topic=34061.msg789033#msg789033 date=1250810703]
[quote author=Alex link=topic=34061.msg788952#msg788952 date=1250802660]
[quote author=WesternDreamer link=topic=34061.msg788906#msg788906 date=1250797961]
Shirreffs has made it pretty clear Zenyatta will never come East before the BC[/quote]

Are you sure about that?
[/quote]

He stated in June that he won't bring Zenyatta back east because it was "too close" to the BC and they were prepping on the track where the BC was held. I distinctly remember it because of the "too close" comment; there were plenty of people questioning why June was too close to the BC to ship her elsewhere for a race. I've seen other quotes that he left the possibility open after the BC, depending what happens, but not before.
[/quote]
But to get HOY, they'll try RA anywhere, any time.
In June, Zenyatta's connections believed that they had HOY sewed up-right now, they don't-Rachel does. They need to beat Rachel Alexandra to get back in the running for HOY
[/quote]

Where on earth did you read Z's connections thought they had HOY in June? That's just plain idiotic.

[Wando]

[quote author=Whos the Cowboy link=topic=34061.msg789168#msg789168 date=1250829255]
[quote author=WesternDreamer link=topic=34061.msg789033#msg789033 date=1250810703]
[quote author=Alex link=topic=34061.msg788952#msg788952 date=1250802660]
[quote author=WesternDreamer link=topic=34061.msg788906#msg788906 date=1250797961]
Shirreffs has made it pretty clear Zenyatta will never come East before the BC[/quote]

Are you sure about that?
[/quote]

He stated in June that he won't bring Zenyatta back east because it was "too close" to the BC and they were prepping on the track where the BC was held. I distinctly remember it because of the "too close" comment; there were plenty of people questioning why June was too close to the BC to ship her elsewhere for a race. I've seen other quotes that he left the possibility open after the BC, depending what happens, but not before.
[/quote]
But to get HOY, they'll try RA anywhere, any time.
In June, Zenyatta's connections believed that they had HOY sewed up-right now, they don't-Rachel does. They need to beat Rachel Alexandra to get back in the running for HOY
[/quote]

So much for sportsmanship and seeing how good your horse is by running against the best fields, which is the point of horse racing. But sadly I think you are right, that is probably why they nominate her to everything so they can pick the softest field with the most prestige to add to her reputation. The only good field she's run in and probably will ever run in was the Preakness - a loss there wouldn't have done anything to her reputation and they could have continued on just running her against overmatched fillies. Now they've got a filly that appears to be a superstar so they certainly don't want to tarnish that by running her against anything the could beat her. Pity, the Travers could have been the race of the year - all three triple crown race winners (assuming Mine that Bird runs) and Quality Road and any other new ones that are coming into form. I really hope I'm wrong, but I suspect her next race will be yet another yawner with her running against 3 or 4 overmatched allowance/G3 horses and her fans falling all over themselves saying how great that was.

[slug863]

Why the clamor to get all three TC race winners in one race?

She beat MTB in the Preakness, and dominated Summer Bird in the Haskell.

It really should be a non-issue at this point.


And I'm sorry, but putting a 3yo filly in against older males in a GI race cannot possibly be seen as looking for a soft field. Please explain the logic of that to me?
People are making it sound like she would be entered in an allowance race at Canterbury Park or something.

Aren't older males supposed to be stronger than 3yo males? Would anyone in here make Mine That Bird or Summer Bird the favorite in the Woodward against older males?
Would anyone in here even make Quality Road the favorite coming off a 6 1/2 furlong race? Would Bullsbay's owner be saying he would skip if any of them entered?

Just incredible in here sometimes.

[Slewbopper]

[quote author=Ezariah link=topic=34061.msg788958#msg788958 date=1250803146]
They may take Miss Z east after the BC, but they have said on numerous occasions that she won't be shipping anywhere before the BC.

[/quote]

And what race would they run her in in the East after the BC? The only G1 I know of is the Cigar Mile which I believe is 3 weeks after the BC. Zenyatta shipping to NY to run a mile at Aquedirty? Yeah sure. The Clark is also 3 weeks after the BC and is a G2. Whichever race she runs on BC day will be her last

[Wando]

[quote author=slug863 link=topic=34061.msg789209#msg789209 date=1250854655]
Why the clamor to get all three TC race winners in one race?

She beat MTB in the Preakness, and dominated Summer Bird in the Haskell.

It really should be a non-issue at this point.


And I'm sorry, but putting a 3yo filly in against older males in a GI race cannot possibly be seen as looking for a soft field. Please explain the logic of that to me?
People are making it sound like she would be entered in an allowance race at Canterbury Park or something.

Aren't older males supposed to be stronger than 3yo males? Would anyone in here make Mine That Bird or Summer Bird the favorite in the Woodward against older males?
Would anyone in here even make Quality Road the favorite coming off a 6 1/2 furlong race? Would Bullsbay's owner be saying he would skip if any of them entered?

Just incredible in here sometimes.
[/quote]

I believe it is "great" older horses should beat "great" 3 year olds. There aren't any great older males running (maybe Rail Trip, but he's still has some more to prove). So yes it would not surprise me if Mine That Bird, or any of the other top 3 year olds was the favourite. Do you really think a horse like Bullsbay would be favoured over Rachel in the Woodward?

I would rather her run against some good competition then what constitutes the older division. Right now the Travers appears to be the race that will be the most competitive. While Bullsbay is a nice horse, if he's considered one of the top older males then we are in worse trouble then I thought.

[SecretariatForever]

[quote author=Wando link=topic=34061.msg789223#msg789223 date=1250861244]
While Bullsbay is a nice horse, if he's considered one of the top older males then we are in worse trouble then I thought.
[/quote]

:tongue: it's sad this year isn't it? :undecided:

[Slewbopper]

[quote author=Secretariat Forever link=topic=34061.msg789233#msg789233 date=1250862424]
[quote author=Wando link=topic=34061.msg789223#msg789223 date=1250861244]
While Bullsbay is a nice horse, if he's considered one of the top older males then we are in worse trouble then I thought.
[/quote]

:tongue: it's sad this year isn't it? :undecided:
[/quote]

With the exception of Curlie and Invasor, it has been rather sad for the last 4 years.

[Wando]

[quote author=Slewbopper link=topic=34061.msg789246#msg789246 date=1250863990]
[quote author=Secretariat Forever link=topic=34061.msg789233#msg789233 date=1250862424]
[quote author=Wando link=topic=34061.msg789223#msg789223 date=1250861244]
While Bullsbay is a nice horse, if he's considered one of the top older males then we are in worse trouble then I thought.
[/quote]

:tongue: it's sad this year isn't it? :undecided:
[/quote]

With the exception of Curlie and Invasor, it has been rather sad for the last 4 years.
[/quote]

Got to agree. That and the picking the easiest spots and avoiding competition. Can you imagine Affirmed running against Seattle Slew or Spectacular Bid going against Affirmed these days. Of course the opportunity probably wouldn't exist since Slew and Affirmed would not have run as 4 year olds. Do you think Affirmed and Alydar would have run against each other as many times as they did in today's racing climate?

[GinTalking]

[quote author=slug863 link=topic=34061.msg789209#msg789209 date=1250854655]
And I'm sorry, but putting a 3yo filly in against older males in a GI race cannot possibly be seen as looking for a soft field. Please explain the logic of that to me?
[/quote]

I agree 100% with this. This is a very tough assignment for most three year olds, much less a filly. Trainers spend most of the year trying to find races where they can keep their three year olds in against their own age group.

It fascinates me that folks are actually comparing this filly to males her own age and want to see if she can beat older males when they aren't asking the same of some of the three year old males.

She's three. She's extraordinarily accomplished for a three year old of any sex. Those are the facts. How people can ignore them is incredible to me.

Right now, I think people ought to be trying to compare other horses to her; not the other way around. She's done everything asked of her. We're still waiting to see some of the three year old males break out and deliver a superb performance.

I love MTB. Big, big fan of his, but I want to see him win something else. I was a big fan of Quality Road and while he was impressive in Florida, winning a secondary sprint race four months later isn't what we're looking for from him. If he's to be considered THE top male, he needs to win the Travers impressively and then take on older males and beat them as well.

We have three three year old males who between them have won the Florida Derby, the Kentucky Derby and the Belmont.

And we have a three year old filly who has won both the Preakness and the Haskell.

[Ezariah]

[quote author=Slewbopper link=topic=34061.msg789220#msg789220 date=1250859552]
[quote author=Ezariah link=topic=34061.msg788958#msg788958 date=1250803146]
They may take Miss Z east after the BC, but they have said on numerous occasions that she won't be shipping anywhere before the BC.
[/quote]
And what race would they run her in in the East after the BC? The only G1 I know of is the Cigar Mile which I believe is 3 weeks after the BC. Zenyatta shipping to NY to run a mile at Aquedirty? Yeah sure. The Clark is also 3 weeks after the BC and is a G2. Whichever race she runs on BC day will be her last
[/quote]

Did I say they had a race in mind? No. If you read what I was responding to, you'd know why I said what I said. Anyway, if Miss Z's connections were serious about facing Rachel after the BC, I'm sure arrangements could be made. Plus, who said the race HAD to be in NY? Imo, as I've stated before, any match-up between the two should be at a track that neither has ever raced on or at Oaklawn. Then, neither of the connections could use the excuse that the other horse had an advantage.

[Ezariah]

[quote author=Whos the Cowboy link=topic=34061.msg789168#msg789168 date=1250829255]
But to get HOY, they'll try RA anywhere, any time.
In June, Zenyatta's connections believed that they had HOY sewed up-right now, they don't-Rachel does.
[/quote]

You're making assumptions here unless you've read a quote that I never have.

[Slewbopper]

[quote author=Ezariah link=topic=34061.msg789274#msg789274 date=1250867467]
[quote author=Slewbopper link=topic=34061.msg789220#msg789220 date=1250859552]
[quote author=Ezariah link=topic=34061.msg788958#msg788958 date=1250803146]
They may take Miss Z east after the BC, but they have said on numerous occasions that she won't be shipping anywhere before the BC.
[/quote]
And what race would they run her in in the East after the BC? The only G1 I know of is the Cigar Mile which I believe is 3 weeks after the BC. Zenyatta shipping to NY to run a mile at Aquedirty? Yeah sure. The Clark is also 3 weeks after the BC and is a G2. Whichever race she runs on BC day will be her last
[/quote]

Did I say they had a race in mind? No. If you read what I was responding to, you'd know why I said what I said. Anyway, if Miss Z's connections were serious about facing Rachel after the BC, I'm sure arrangements could be made. Plus, who said the race HAD to be in NY? Imo, as I've stated before, any match-up between the two should be at a track that neither has ever raced on or at Oaklawn. Then, neither of the connections could use the excuse that the other horse had an advantage.
[/quote]


I mentioned NY and KY as states, not just NY. BTW, Oaklwn isn't open til mid January. Where else are they running anything resembling quality races in late Nov and early Dec other than California, the one place Rachel won't go? Why should a race need to be created? It isn't about money anyway.

[ManOTaz]

[quote author=slug863 link=topic=34061.msg789209#msg789209 date=1250854655]
Why the clamor to get all three TC race winners in one race?

She beat MTB in the Preakness, and dominated Summer Bird in the Haskell.

It really should be a non-issue at this point.


And I'm sorry, but putting a 3yo filly in against older males in a GI race cannot possibly be seen as looking for a soft field. Please explain the logic of that to me?
People are making it sound like she would be entered in an allowance race at Canterbury Park or something.

Aren't older males supposed to be stronger than 3yo males? Would anyone in here make Mine That Bird or Summer Bird the favorite in the Woodward against older males?
Would anyone in here even make Quality Road the favorite coming off a 6 1/2 furlong race? Would Bullsbay's owner be saying he would skip if any of them entered?

Just incredible in here sometimes.
[/quote]

You got it.

[ManOTaz]

[quote author=Wando link=topic=34061.msg789223#msg789223 date=1250861244]
[quote author=slug863 link=topic=34061.msg789209#msg789209 date=1250854655]
Why the clamor to get all three TC race winners in one race?

She beat MTB in the Preakness, and dominated Summer Bird in the Haskell.

It really should be a non-issue at this point.


And I'm sorry, but putting a 3yo filly in against older males in a GI race cannot possibly be seen as looking for a soft field. Please explain the logic of that to me?
People are making it sound like she would be entered in an allowance race at Canterbury Park or something.

Aren't older males supposed to be stronger than 3yo males? Would anyone in here make Mine That Bird or Summer Bird the favorite in the Woodward against older males?
Would anyone in here even make Quality Road the favorite coming off a 6 1/2 furlong race? Would Bullsbay's owner be saying he would skip if any of them entered?

Just incredible in here sometimes.
[/quote]

I believe it is "great" older horses should beat "great" 3 year olds. There aren't any great older males running (maybe Rail Trip, but he's still has some more to prove). So yes it would not surprise me if Mine That Bird, or any of the other top 3 year olds was the favourite. Do you really think a horse like Bullsbay would be favoured over Rachel in the Woodward?

I would rather her run against some good competition then what constitutes the older division. Right now the Travers appears to be the race that will be the most competitive. While Bullsbay is a nice horse, if he's considered one of the top older males then we are in worse trouble then I thought.
[/quote]

She has nothing to prove against three year olds...she needs races against older horses on her resume...