when i was at ashford it was in may but they were still breeding 3 times a day. i was told that the stallions were turned out at night. not sure what they do in the winter
when i was at ashford it was in may but they were still breeding 3 times a day. i was told that the stallions were turned out at night. not sure what they do in the winter
The ones who stay in US get turned out in summer when season is over. If Mo is still standing, I bet he shuttles.Originally Posted by drjohnh
On a separate note from the mental and physical health of the stallion - as Halo mentioned, what breeder in their ever loving right mind does want to risk being one of 150 foals - many of them intended for eventual sales? Although with that said, this is the year to try it.
I'm lost...?
Animal Kingdom, Eblouissante, Amazombie, Somali Lemonade, Royal Delta,
Archwarrior, Flashy Gray, Antonia Autumn, Verrazano, Mr Commons, Midnight Lucky
2012 Thoroughbred In Memoriam
Once upon a time there was a horse named Kelso. But only once. ~ Joe Hirsch
Why, is it a bad place? Wasn't he in KY for a while?
About which part?I'm lost...?
Ashford - as well as other major farms - breeds large books of mares which some (not all, of course) believe is hard on the stallion, especially since they often shuttle them as well. The other part, the business part, is that the commercial breeder who raises horses to sell will be selling Uncle Mo # 94 and that with so many to choose from it will effect demand due to the over supply.
I'm confused.Where did Consolidator go off to?
Consolidator was sold in November to stand in the Phillipines. That's where Fantasticat is now too.
This. Thanks! Reading posts at midnight isn't good for me lol. I couldn't wrap my head around what you meant.
Animal Kingdom, Eblouissante, Amazombie, Somali Lemonade, Royal Delta,
Archwarrior, Flashy Gray, Antonia Autumn, Verrazano, Mr Commons, Midnight Lucky
2012 Thoroughbred In Memoriam
Once upon a time there was a horse named Kelso. But only once. ~ Joe Hirsch
The oversupply has been around for years. For every really nice Giant's Causeway that sells well there are three that sell for under 50K each. All they hope for is one or two home runs to boost the average enough that most won't be discouraged.
I looked at three random years/stallions from Ashford to show that even with a lot of them the average is not as low as you think. It's not the 2.5 times the stud fee but maybe most of these sellers don't consider that the benchmark.
Giant's Causeway
YEARLINGS (160) - 2009 Fee $125,000 75 offered, 61 sold, avg $163,556, $127,500 med (3.4 TNA)
34 colts, avg $192,287; 27 fillies, avg $127,376
Now here's Scat Daddy
YEARLINGS (72) - 2009 Fee $22,500
55 offered, 44 sold, avg $44,051, $30,000 med (0.9 TNA)
20 colts, avg $52,450; 23 fillies, avg $38,174
Tale of The Cat
YEARLINGS (206) - 2008 Fee $37,500
67 offered, 52 sold, avg $78,827, $55,106 med (1.9 TNA)
31 colts, avg $91,129; 21 fillies, avg $60,667
Retweet by Sid Fernando. @pbel2012: A Brazilian group just acquired the South American rights of the stallion DROSSELMEYER (Distorted Humor), lead by Stud TNT.
First rule: Try always to do what's right for the horse. The people part will work out. -- Josh Pons, Merryland, 2007
I guess I just don't understand the economics of breeding for sale. I assume it only works if you have enough mares and foals that you will hit those home runs. Otherwise in the samples cited above, the odds on any given foal are that you won't make any money once care, sales prep, commission and all are taken into account.
I ran marathons. I saw the Taj Mahal by moonlight. I drove Highway 1 in a convertible. I petted Zenyatta.
That's why if you can only afford to buy one mare you buy the absolute best quality mare you can afford and send her to the best stallions you can afford and hope that after she's put a few foals on the ground and you've sent those through the sales that you have made some money. The chances of someone with one mare having her first foal hit a home run are slim so by sending a mare to a first year stallion some are gambling that people will buy on hype since the stallion has not proven he's a flop.
By the same token it's probably not a good move to take a 5K mare and send her to Giant's Causeway.
Just to play devil's advocate, do you think that Scat Daddy being the leading freshman sire will have an effect on how the market perceives him? After all, most of those yearling prices were before anyone knew whether they could run and he wasn't bred to the most stellar book of mares. Contrary to popular belief online, I understand that it is not easy to just book a mare to Scat Daddy right now. He has a lot of buzz from the right people.
Also isn't Tale of the Cat getting a little long in the tooth? I know he had Gio Ponti but there is a point when almost every stallion starts declining commercially.
The market was high on Scat Daddy BEFORE his offspring started running. People liked his yearlings and thought he'd do well. So much so that he got 191 mares in 2011, up from 92 the previous year.
That was just given to show how many yearlings there were by some of those sires. They still want 35K for Tale of the Cat so he can't be that long in the tooth if people are willing to pay that. You don't need to play Devil's advocate, simple math says that the average yearling by a stallion with a lot of yearlings in a sale is going to be lower than one that does not. It's simple supply and demand. Provide a lot of supply and the demand drops and the one's who are really good get all the attention and the one's who are not get none.
The reality is that no matter how hot a sire is like Giant's Causeway he has a high number of yearlings sell who do not come close to the stud fee. Scat Daddy's average might go up but the reality is with that many yearlings how much do you think it could possibly move?
I don't know why anyone would want to have one of 75 by the same sire in a sale and all those numbers were supposed to show is how hard it is to make money when you factor in all the costs of getting that foal to the sale.
That, to me, is the whole point which seems to have been previously overlooked. I would much rather have one yearling of many by a good stallion than one of few by a stallion that interests no one.
Why would anyone considering a 35k first year stallion also have on their list "a stallion that interests no one?"
Why would it be such an either/ or proposition?
I bet it would've never been that high of a number if Indian Charlie did not pass away unexpectedly.
I'll never understand the hype that surrounds this horse on-and-off the track. Other thing that raises an eyebrow is now this new stressful workload when he has already battled liver issues. I'm more than certain Ashford will monitor Mo closely and make sure everything is alright. However, I can't help but to feel bad he will live by the motto of can of Maxwell House Coffee.
I really wish Ashford all the luck with Mo and anyone breeding a mare to him. Hopefully he lives up to more promise at stud than he did at the track. Good luck...
If you were a cookie, you'd be a WHOREO!!!
I can't help thinking that most mares who would've gone to Indian Charlie would look for another stallion in the same stud fee range, not a $35K unproven stallion.
This.
We ended up booking a mare to Unbridled's Song very quickly when we found out about Indian Charlie weeks before the news was released. Airdrie was very forthcoming and most the stallions in that range were either booked full or close to it but were willing to open a few spots to accommodate.
Such a shame. He was a very nice horse.
Nobody said giving Kirstie Alley a colonic would be easy.
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