Article in New York Times states Justify failed a drug test before the Derby

Tessablue
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Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:02 pm

RugbyGirl wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:46 pm
CHRB has responded
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/re ... 74.twitter
I like how this response focuses in very narrowly on the "he should have been DQ'd prior to the Derby" angle, which is by far the easiest to defend and deflect with. In addition, this statement:
“Jimson weed is a weed we see in California not infrequently,” he said. “This is not a case of someone drugging a horse. This is a case of a horse poisoning. The source of it is a poisonous plant.

“The Board, on my and the executive director’s recommendation, made the correct, appropriate and the gutsy decision to dismiss the case,” Arthur said.
should be considered utterly alarming by anyone with a vested interest in maintaining (establishing?) the integrity of this sport. You just cannot make such a definitive conclusion. By definition, are all scopolamine overages null in his eyes? But, having read his seven dead horses report, it's hard to expect better.
CorridorZ75
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Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:22 pm

Fact 1: it can be used as a performance enhancer.
Fact 2: it was found in legitimately elevated levels in the test and was confirmed with a split sample.

Conclusion: regardless of whether it was intentional or not, the horse should be disqualified for having it in his system.

Really if they were worried about environmental contamination, then it should just be a disqualification without penalty to the trainer.
Also, if it was no big deal, then don't cover it up for months and then get all defensive when your idiotic decisions come back and haunt you.

The entire CHRB board should resign and Arthur as well. Their integrity is completely shot to hell.

Also, this is what happens when three races in the Spring of a three year old year are the end all and be all of the sport. Granted, I doubt Justify was ever going to hold up to racing longterm.

Let's put it this way, had California chrome come out of the Santa Anita Derby with elevated scopolamine, do you think the CHRB would have bothered to do much more than DQ him? But after this, who knows, maybe he did come up positive for something, may plenty of horses have come up with positives without public knowledge. That is the worst part of losing your trustworthiness; no one should believe you going forward.
stark
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Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:52 pm

BDS
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
MySaladDays
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Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:06 pm

Honestly, I think the only people who will be floored by this are those who think U.S. racing, and everyone in it, is participating clean and honest.

"2 months after the Belmont Stakes the CHRB held a closed session and decided his food may have been contaminated" and the inquiry was closed...


I guess they don't realize that drugs are no long put in with hypodermic needles, they are in the feed itself. The feed guys are the new pharmacists, often coming up with new undetetables, and/or staying one step ahead of the testing technology.

The feed is tainted, but on purpose. :lol:


Guess we should expect that AP and Justify pass on their "classic distance stayer" genes to their progeny......watch them all turn out to be sprinters / milers. :)

CHRB starts to seem like one of those protection outfits back in the days of the mafia. They have to do what they have to do in order to keep the operation running ------ they will protect their own.
lurkey mclurker
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:04 am

Regardless of alleged bias in any direction, the fact remains: Justify tested positive for a substance that can act as a PED and was in fact prohibited when he raced. He also tested positive at FOUR TIMES the allowed limit, if the numbers given are correct.

It stinks to high heaven all around. Getting so jaded about everything. :(

ETA: Ditto everything that Corridor said up there ^^^
Last edited by lurkey mclurker on Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
greyhorse
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:06 am

Not surprised. The conflicts of interest in racing, and California in particular, are outta control. I'm sure Baffert's been given special treatment more times than we realize.
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Charlie
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:07 am

I mean I am not surprised in any way, which is sad. For whatever reason, they want to kiss Baffert's ass and its the detriment of the sport. The would have most definitely DQed a smaller/different trainer.

It's also not surprising that Justify was on performance enhancers. He did a lot of stuff history said he shouldn't and he had a lot of drama surrounding his TC wins.
greyhorse
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:10 am

lurkey mclurker wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:04 am
It stinks to high heaven all around. Getting so jaded about everything. :(
:(

Been there, done that, quit racing, no intention to return. I worked in the So Cal racing industry, and saw this kinda crap firsthand and also heard stories from a handful of people I trust. At first I didn't want to believe it, but it became too much. Many people who read this story won't want to believe it, either.
CorridorZ75
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:56 am

I am pretty much there as well. Just holding out to see if Chrome can beat the odds (and I guess cheaters) once more in becoming a good sire.

Seriously, though, all the CHRB had to do was make a public announcement on the positive when it was confirmed by split sample, explain why this could have been contamination and not willful cheating, and then publish all the positive scopolamine tests and the levels in say the last year, the 3 years, or the last 5 years to help assuage the public's immediate reaction to the news. If this is such a common thing, then surely there much be plenty of positives.... but no, they went with the ever popular "bury it" and ended up making it look ten times worse and anything but a simple case of "contamination".
MySaladDays
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:09 am

If someone already brought this up, I apologize for not reading every post in this topic:

But here is my lingering question:

Before the SA Derby, Justify did not have any points with which to enter the KY Derby.

He received 100 points by winning the SA Derby.

By not being disqualified (or even disqualed to a lower final finish number) ....... did it keep another deserving horse "on the bubble" from being able to run in the KY Derby that year?


THis alone would be terribly wrong and would be truly unfair to not only the betting public, but other trainers, owners, and breeders.

THis isn't like a racing interference, where a horse is "dropped back" to a different ITM place from the win position! . It's a drug positive, before a qualifying race that earned him a place in the KY Derby gate! He had 0 points before that race. He should have been DQed altogether and after the SA Derby would have had 0 points again. (his only other races were a maiden and an allowance).

FOr god's sake, they stripped Lance Armstrong of his entire 7 titles.
Last edited by MySaladDays on Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
MySaladDays
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:21 am

CorridorZ75 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:56 am

all the CHRB had to do was make a public announcement on the positive when it was confirmed by split sample, explain why this could have been contamination and not willful cheating, and then publish all the positive scopolamine tests and the levels in say the last year, the 3 years, or the last 5 years to help assuage the public's immediate reaction to the news. If this is such a common thing, then surely there much be plenty of positives.... but no, they went with the ever popular "bury it" and ended up making it look ten times worse and anything but a simple case of "contamination".

So--------now ANY trainer can have a positive and get into the KY Derby gate by claiming an "innocent" contamination--- a simple case of contamination. NOT cheating.
CorridorZ75 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:56 am
If this is such a common thing, then surely there much be plenty of positives....

This just opens the door for them to do exactly that! It's common......no need to worry!

Bring it on!
Somnambulist
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:11 am

WinStars post TC comments and retiring this horse immediately destroyed my passion for this game. The Restoring Hope thing was also just bad taste. Ever since I've kind of looked at racing the way you might look at a significant other once someone brings something negative to your attention and the love isn't there anymore. No more rose colored glasses. You just start the holes in it and wonder why you signed up to this to begin with.

I will always follow racing. But this whole thing makes me me laugh sadly.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
Somnambulist
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:13 am

So do people still really believe Bayern shouldn't have been DQed. The CHRB deserves to have the State take it over.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
peeptoad
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:02 am

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Last edited by peeptoad on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CoronadosQuest
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:52 am

Sounds like a case like this happened before too (not a Triple Crown prep race though) to Mandella, Henning, and McAnally

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of ... 89876.html
Lady Blessington and Water Prospector are two horses which finished first in races at Santa Anita Race Track on February 27, 1994 and March 9, 1994, respectively.   On April 9, 1994, Top Rung finished second in a race at Santa Anita Race Track.   The California Horse Racing Board (hereinafter CHRB) took from each horse a post-race urine sample which was tested for the presence of foreign substances at a private laboratory.   The laboratory reported that each of the samples contained evidence of the presence of a prohibited drug, scopolamine, a plant alkaloid which is a depressant.   The CHRB, acting through its Board of Stewards, commenced administrative proceedings against the trainers of each of the horses, alleging violations of CHRB rules.1  On October 31, 1994, the stewards found that there had been violations and each trainer was fined.   In addition, acting upon the authority of CHRB rule 1859.5,2 the stewards ordered that each of the horses be disqualified and their owners, respondents herein, were ordered to return the purses earned by their horses.
Ziggypop
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:55 am

stark wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:52 pm
RugbyGirl wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:46 pm
CHRB has responded
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/re ... 74.twitter
Rick Arthur, the equine medical director for the CHRB called the story “absolute nonsense.”

“I will tell you this, Joe knows better,” Arthur said. “Joe thought he had a story and he wrote it the way he wanted.”
By all means, he blames the messenger.
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Ridan_Remembered
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:13 am

During one period, Baffert was giving ALL the horses in his barn a thyroid medication. During the same period, 7 of his horses dropped dead. He has a history of some of his formerly average horses suddenly become world beaters for less than a handful of races, then retired.

Posting this link for those who would like to see clearly -- no more wool pulled over eyes: https://mail.all-creatures.org/articles ... lty-2.html
peeptoad
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:14 am

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Last edited by peeptoad on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
djnorth
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:43 am

CoronadosQuest wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:52 am
Sounds like a case like this happened before too (not a Triple Crown prep race though) to Mandella, Henning, and McAnally

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of ... 89876.html
Lady Blessington and Water Prospector are two horses which finished first in races at Santa Anita Race Track on February 27, 1994 and March 9, 1994, respectively.   On April 9, 1994, Top Rung finished second in a race at Santa Anita Race Track.   The California Horse Racing Board (hereinafter CHRB) took from each horse a post-race urine sample which was tested for the presence of foreign substances at a private laboratory.   The laboratory reported that each of the samples contained evidence of the presence of a prohibited drug, scopolamine, a plant alkaloid which is a depressant.   The CHRB, acting through its Board of Stewards, commenced administrative proceedings against the trainers of each of the horses, alleging violations of CHRB rules.1  On October 31, 1994, the stewards found that there had been violations and each trainer was fined.   In addition, acting upon the authority of CHRB rule 1859.5,2 the stewards ordered that each of the horses be disqualified and their owners, respondents herein, were ordered to return the purses earned by their horses.
These cases though, without more info, could be explained (maybe) by contamination. If levels were low, and these trainers were all buying hay/ grain from the same dealer and lot, maybe. I realize that testing has gotten so much better and more specialized since 1994. However, notice that the legal stuff ended on Halloween. (!) When were these trainers notified (in proximity to the race dates) and what was done.
Vandalay
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Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:40 am

he CHRB is a prime example of why racing has an image problem, the people running the show have conflicts of interest. Not just in California, but all over the country. In my years as an owner, I can say without a doubt, thoroughbred racing is an insular, political world, and it doesn't want any outsiders sticking their noses in. As an old trainer once told me, "It aint a sport anymore, it's a racket"
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