Siblings (and offspring) of well-known horses

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Flanders
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Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:03 am

starrydreamer wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:11 pm
I had no idea that Starship Jubilee's second dam is nice 1990s turf mare Perfect Arc. I followed her offspring but was pretty disappointed and then she fell off my radar. I'm so glad to see a grandbaby with her talent.
Seeing the relationship a few weeks ago, I looked at some of Perfect Arc's races to try and remember who she raced against. The lovely Matiara who broke down in the Beverly D. and not sure why since they didn't race against each other but it also reminded me of Look Daggers who was from the same crop.
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Starine
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:11 am

‘Like A Dream Journey’: Japanese-Trained Serein Targeting Kentucky Oaks Points In Dubai
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(Uncle Mo x Tiz Miz Sue)
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starrydreamer
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:47 pm

Flanders wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:03 am
starrydreamer wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:11 pm
I had no idea that Starship Jubilee's second dam is nice 1990s turf mare Perfect Arc. I followed her offspring but was pretty disappointed and then she fell off my radar. I'm so glad to see a grandbaby with her talent.
Seeing the relationship a few weeks ago, I looked at some of Perfect Arc's races to try and remember who she raced against. The lovely Matiara who broke down in the Beverly D. and not sure why since they didn't race against each other but it also reminded me of Look Daggers who was from the same crop.
She also won against:
- Flagbird
- Danish (IRE), who had won the Queen Elizabeth II Invitational the year before Perfect Arc did.
- Country Cat, a full sister to Bernstein and Caress who died as a 4 year old.
- Alpride (IRE), who was an Italian champion and very good Cali turf mare.
- Northern Emerald
- Avie's Fancy - dam of St Averil
- Sleep Easy
- Bail Out Becky, the second dam of Stephanie's Kitten.
- Fashion Star, dam of Eddington.
- Tough Broad, dam of Richard's Kid.

Oh gosh, I remember Look Daggers! And yeah, it's weird that they never ran against each other, even though they ran against a lot of the same horses. The mid-90s turf mares were fun to watch.
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Starine
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:21 pm

Breakout Beyers: Golden Tapit has the pedigree
https://www.drf.com/news/breakout-beyer ... gree?type=
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Mylute
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Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:47 pm

Twin Thoroughbreds Custom Pete, Halo Carlos Set To Debut Together At Delta Downs
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mariasmon
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Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:31 pm

Invader (War Front) won the Battaglia at Turfway. He is out of Say, a G3W/G1P Galileo daughter of Riskaverse. His full brother, Fog of War, won the G1 Summer S. at Woodbine in 2018. The Battaglia is not a Derby points race, but it is the local prep for the Spiral/Jeff Ruby Steaks.
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Flanders
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Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:25 pm

Modernist who won the 2nd division of the Risen Star(G2) is out of Symbolic Gesture a half-sister to Life Is Sweet and Sweet Catomine.
Slewfan2
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Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:01 pm

Flanders wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:25 pm
Modernist who won the 2nd division of the Risen Star(G2) is out of Symbolic Gesture a half-sister to Life Is Sweet and Sweet Catomine.
Another SW for Bernardini as a broodmare sire...
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Starine
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Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:22 pm

Mr. Monomoy Powers Home On Top In First Division Of Risen Star
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Retrospectiv
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Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:27 pm

Slewfan2 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:01 pm
Flanders wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:25 pm
Modernist who won the 2nd division of the Risen Star(G2) is out of Symbolic Gesture a half-sister to Life Is Sweet and Sweet Catomine.
Another SW for Bernardini as a broodmare sire...
Considering he has seen nothing but the BEST broodmares from the first moment he walked into the breeding shed (and those 1st years he consistently had the highest CI for his mares), he should be knocking out broodmare sire stakes winners left and right.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway', but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies."
Slewfan2
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Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:32 pm

Retrospectiv wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:27 pm
Slewfan2 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:01 pm
Flanders wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:25 pm
Modernist who won the 2nd division of the Risen Star(G2) is out of Symbolic Gesture a half-sister to Life Is Sweet and Sweet Catomine.
Another SW for Bernardini as a broodmare sire...
Considering he has seen nothing but the BEST broodmares from the first moment he walked into the breeding shed (and those 1st years he consistently had the highest CI for his mares), he should be knocking out broodmare sire stakes winners left and right.
If you want to discredit him, that's your thing. I'm not interested in debating this with you (although I'm sure you made the same argument for AP Indy, Secretariat, and other great broodmare sires, right?)
Green Desert
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Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:56 pm

Retrospectiv wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:27 pm
Slewfan2 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:01 pm
Flanders wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:25 pm
Modernist who won the 2nd division of the Risen Star(G2) is out of Symbolic Gesture a half-sister to Life Is Sweet and Sweet Catomine.
Another SW for Bernardini as a broodmare sire...
Considering he has seen nothing but the BEST broodmares from the first moment he walked into the breeding shed (and those 1st years he consistently had the highest CI for his mares), he should be knocking out broodmare sire stakes winners left and right.
I'm kind of wondering how that works for the high dollar sires such as he and American Pharaoh, among others, but I'm not sure there will ever be a way to calculate those figures.
Truly great sires elevate their mares in the long run and help them out produce what their breeding histories might suggest. However, these stallions, as well as Justify, get the best mates with proven records in the breeding shed by breeders who can afford their fees. Is there a way to calculate their AEI with extremely average mares- or is there even a chance that they even get average mares with their stud fees being what they are?
(Not trying to be offensive to anyone, as it has been many years since I've posted on this board, but I've watched with interest many stallions over the years who made their way up the lower breeding ranks and becoming top sires by producing quality foals where their success might not have been predicted. )
firehorse
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Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:52 pm

ThreeMustangs wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:36 pm
mariasmon wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:12 pm
Hard Not to Love (Hard Spun), a half to Wonder Gadot, broke her maiden impressively today at SA.
She just won the La Brea (G1).
Hard Not to Love won the Santa Monica (G2) yesterday - TVG got an interview with her groom after, really sweet https://twitter.com/TVG/status/1228838957619662849?s=20
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Diver52
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Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:59 pm

Doesn't the "Comparable Index" (CI) try to show what the mares have produced with other stallions? Theoretically a great stallion should have a higher AEI than CI (if I'm understanding correctly) but of course this calculation can also be skewed if a stallion is bred to mares who have already produced major earners, which would make it harder for the stallion to "improve" them.

I see from paging through an old paper Stallion Register that there is a similar set of AEI./CI figures for broodmare sires, but I have no idea how that is calculated. I also noted that a lot of very prominent stallions have LOWER AEI's than CI's, which might play into the thought above.

This probably belongs over in "Breeding and Sales."
I ran marathons. I saw the Taj Mahal by Moonlight. I drove Highway 1 in a convertible. I petted Zenyatta.
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Diver52
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Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:03 pm

On topic, Charlatan (Speightstown x MGSW Authenticity) became the latest "Is it too late to make it to the Derby?" topic for Baffert by crushing in a depleted MSW at Santa Anita in 1.08.8. Never broke a sweat.
I ran marathons. I saw the Taj Mahal by Moonlight. I drove Highway 1 in a convertible. I petted Zenyatta.
CorridorZ75
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Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:53 pm

Diver52 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:59 pm
Doesn't the "Comparable Index" (CI) try to show what the mares have produced with other stallions? Theoretically a great stallion should have a higher AEI than CI (if I'm understanding correctly) but of course this calculation can also be skewed if a stallion is bred to mares who have already produced major earners, which would make it harder for the stallion to "improve" them.

I see from paging through an old paper Stallion Register that there is a similar set of AEI./CI figures for broodmare sires, but I have no idea how that is calculated. I also noted that a lot of very prominent stallions have LOWER AEI's than CI's, which might play into the thought above.

This probably belongs over in "Breeding and Sales."
This is where having an overall handicapping system, or I guess using a APEX type system, would be useful. It would be informative to have the mare's progeny average rating compared with the offspring of a stallion. However, I think all the numbers are a bit skewed these days as the commercial market has changed how first year stallions have been utilized. Even the non-flashy ones end up with much better books than they would have had even 10-15 years ago because that seems to be what sells these days. For instance, is this a truly bumper first year ( now second year) stallion crop or is it just natural progression of the modern commercial breeding philosophy?
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Flanders
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Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:40 pm

I made an AEI/CI thread in Breeding and Sales if anyone is interested in talking about it.
https://www.thoroughbredchampions.com/f ... f=4&t=7228
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Mylute
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Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:18 pm

Starine wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:22 pm
Mr. Monomoy Powers Home On Top In First Division Of Risen Star
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/trip ... isen-star/
Yay for Palace Malice!
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CoronadosQuest
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Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:29 pm

Diver52 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:03 pm
On topic, Charlatan (Speightstown x MGSW Authenticity) became the latest "Is it too late to make it to the Derby?" topic for Baffert by crushing in a depleted MSW at Santa Anita in 1.08.8. Never broke a sweat.
He is a very nice colt! His dam was no slouch either!
firehorse
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Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:58 pm

Out of Balance (Kittens Joy x Balance) finally broke her maiden today on the turf at Santa Anita 🙂
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