California Chrome to contest Hollywood Derby

katmandu
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:27 pm

BlindLucky wrote:
Horsebagger wrote:Let's not forget calling the connections of Tonalist 'cowards'. Ignorant people who choose to let their mouths run un-edited about things they don't understand don't get the benefit of the doubt. At least not from me.
Lenny Schulman at the Blood-Horse reported in his podcast at the beginning of November (around 4:50 here) that Coburn "and entourage" showed up at a Turf Writers charity dinner without paying anything and sat at a table reserved for a publication that had made a donation. Coburn then refused to move, and didn't pay. It's hard to keep using the excuse that "he's new to the sport, he just doesn't understand, he's just a real guy."
Tom LaMarra (another BH writer who was actually there and at the BH table) also disputed LS's version in the comments immediately after the "show" was up and presented a much more innocuous version. Interestingly enough, as I go back today to pull his version, I see it has been "scrubbed". . . LS has strong opinions (which need to be said at times), but I don't think he always lets the facts get in the way of them.

Coburn is a piece of work, but I do give him credit for some improvement. The drink sequence was an embarrassment to TVG.
Rick1323
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:30 pm

How many times has someone on here used the total number of Grade 1 wins to prove a horse's worth? That was the point of this race, the only point. When he is retired everyone will have forgotten how he got this win.

And yes, his owner is still a drunken asshole..........
Everyone come home sound.....
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Sham
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:13 pm

dustino140 wrote:I would argue whether this race increased his value or appeal to Japanese breeders. Actually, I wouldn't say 'argue,' but I'd question it. Looking at the 'top' US horses that the Japanese have imported - Empire Maker, I'll Have Another, Pyro, Roses in May, Street Sense, War Emblem, Came Home - they don't seem to be hanging on turf form as much as people are telling themselves they are.

Reading my argument, the spot that he should have been in was the Clark. I said that a bunch of times. And that's fine that Coburn & Martin don't care what I think. I just think it's a shame the way they treat the industry and the fans.

It seems to me that unless you approach horse racing with the utmost rainbows and unicorns vision, people are going to whine about the way you look at it. I actually think my way of looking at it is fresher and original than the "OMG YAY HE WON!!! BEST 3YO EVA!" approach, but I'm sure most people would challenge that.
For all we know the turf thing might not matter, it's all speculation. It's as valid a possibility as anything else.

I think you did say the Clark, but I'm going to blame the mistranslation in trying to read and type on a phone. My opinion was that I didn't think the Clark would have been a challenge or particularly telling of the horse's quality, which might have caused the misinterpretation of your stance.

The realist/critical approach is neither fresh nor original, but I agree that it's necessary. Like I've said, I flatter myself that I tend toward that approach more often than not, but occasionally it just gets in the way of getting any enjoyment out of this game.
Soto, Suni, Sham, whichever.
lurkey mclurker
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:59 pm

Interview with Art Sherman re the Hollywood Derby & Chrome in general: http://www.hrtv.com/videos/sherman-refl ... derby-win/
Tessablue
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:22 pm

I can't stand the owners either, but I find it hard to be overly critical of their decision given that Chrome was the only title contender who showed up (anywhere in the country) yesterday. Was it a safe bet against a weak field? Sure, but it was better than nothing, and I can't help but appreciate the novelty of a Derby winner taking down a G1 this late in the season on a new surface. This time of the year, we're usually bemoaning how the Derby winner (and sometimes the whole 3yo crop) is injured/retired/disappointing. Expressing outrage that the Derby winner chose a less-competitive post-BC G1 is a pretty good problem to have, IMO, and I can't fault people for being excited about the race.
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:37 pm

Ok, so let's sum this all up, shall we...

1. CC's owners are "classless jerks" who have behaved badly in public. Therefore, let's hate on the horse and everyone else who is associated with him. Like none of us has ever behaved badly in public, or cussed, or drank too much, or let our emotions run away with us, right? Besides, only "nice" people have a right to own racehorses and win big races, so when they get on TV they can put a nice face on a sport that behind the scenes...well, enough said there.

2. CC's very likeable trainer wanted to try his horse on the turf. But the armchair trainers who populate this site preferred another race for the horse. Therefore, let's dump all over the colt's excellent first try on turf. After all, Art Sherman only has somewhere around 60 years in the business, so what does he know, right?

3. Because CC's owners are "classless jerks," and we don't like where the CC team is running him, let's also take all the joy out of yesterday's win for the colt's fans who happen to visit this forum. I mean...why not bring everyone else down to the sour place we're at. If we aren't happy with a situation, why should anyone else be happy?
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:02 pm

lurkey mclurker wrote:Interview with Art Sherman re the Hollywood Derby & Chrome in general: http://www.hrtv.com/videos/sherman-refl ... derby-win/
Thank you for posting this link. The interview with "Papa" Sherman did my heart good, especially when he said California Chrome is closer to his heart than the great Swaps.
MR-W
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:05 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:Ok, so let's sum this all up, shall we...

1. CC's owners are "classless jerks" who have behaved badly in public. Therefore, let's hate on the horse and everyone else who is associated with him. Like none of us has ever behaved badly in public, or cussed, or drank too much, or let our emotions run away with us, right? Besides, only "nice" people have a right to own racehorses and win big races, so when they get on TV they can put a nice face on a sport that behind the scenes...well, enough said there.

2. CC's very likeable trainer wanted to try his horse on the turf. But the armchair trainers who populate this site preferred another race for the horse. Therefore, let's dump all over the colt's excellent first try on turf. After all, Art Sherman only has somewhere around 60 years in the business, so what does he know, right?

3. Because CC's owners are "classless jerks," and we don't like where the CC team is running him, let's also take all the joy out of yesterday's win for the colt's fans who happen to visit this forum. I mean...why not bring everyone else down to the sour place we're at. If we aren't happy with a situation, why should anyone else be happy?
Thanks R_R. I'm certainly glad that CC's connections ran him at Del Mar. I got to watch him take easy money in person. No traveling to CD to help them headline the Clark too. I mean why reward CD who treated the connections like crap in the first place? Don't believe what I say, ask Ron Turcott.
While I may not think the owners are grand, they have treated CC like a real race horse and he is possibly on the verge of winning multiple Eclipse awards as well. I sure wish I could have a horse like CC and campaign him. I doubt that I would have done the bang up job these guys have done though. They've made loads of $$$ and have probably the most popular horse in the world. Yeah, they're really baaaad people. To call a guy a drunk is about as judgmental as I've ever seen unless of course you know for sure and you just want to share the gossip with everyone else who will listen. I never knew that this board had about a half a dozen perfect people.
Horsebagger
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:10 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:
lurkey mclurker wrote:Interview with Art Sherman re the Hollywood Derby & Chrome in general: http://www.hrtv.com/videos/sherman-refl ... derby-win/
Thank you for posting this link. The interview with "Papa" Sherman did my heart good, especially when he said California Chrome is closer to his heart than the great Swaps.
Papa doesn't consider Main Sequence a HOY candidate? 4 G1s and one of them a Breeders Cup race. None of them restricted. Uhhhhh......oops.
Horsebagger
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:11 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:Ok, so let's sum this all up, shall we...

1. CC's owners are "classless jerks" who have behaved badly in public. Therefore, let's hate on the horse and everyone else who is associated with him. Like none of us has ever behaved badly in public, or cussed, or drank too much, or let our emotions run away with us, right? Besides, only "nice" people have a right to own racehorses and win big races, so when they get on TV they can put a nice face on a sport that behind the scenes...well, enough said there.

2. CC's very likeable trainer wanted to try his horse on the turf. But the armchair trainers who populate this site preferred another race for the horse. Therefore, let's dump all over the colt's excellent first try on turf. After all, Art Sherman only has somewhere around 60 years in the business, so what does he know, right?

3. Because CC's owners are "classless jerks," and we don't like where the CC team is running him, let's also take all the joy out of yesterday's win for the colt's fans who happen to visit this forum. I mean...why not bring everyone else down to the sour place we're at. If we aren't happy with a situation, why should anyone else be happy?
You should recognize classless jerks being classless jerks and save the quotation marks next time.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:15 pm

" This time of the year, we're usually bemoaning how the Derby winner (and sometimes the whole 3yo crop) is injured/retired/disappointing."

Too true.
This year's crop of three-year-olds, however, have regularly showed great quality, and I think most of the best are coming back for 2015. How long has it been since we could say that? I believe 'Chrome, Bayern, Shared Belief, Tonalist and Toast of New York are all returning to race. Even Honor Code is back. ;)
Somnambulist

Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:19 pm

Who here is taking away people's happiness? If that's how people feel I strongly suggest a therapist because random people on the Internet should hold no sway.

I am a fan of the NY Giants. We are potentially the worst team in football. I will still sit and watch next week's game with my beanie, my jersey and my scarf happily.

And I love every effin moment the Cowboys suffer. Sports are fun with some rivalry.
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:41 pm

Horsebagger wrote:
Ridan_Remembered wrote:
lurkey mclurker wrote:Interview with Art Sherman re the Hollywood Derby & Chrome in general: http://www.hrtv.com/videos/sherman-refl ... derby-win/
Thank you for posting this link. The interview with "Papa" Sherman did my heart good, especially when he said California Chrome is closer to his heart than the great Swaps.
Papa doesn't consider Main Sequence a HOY candidate? 4 G1s and one of them a Breeders Cup race. None of them restricted. Uhhhhh......oops.
Who said he doesn't consider Main Sequence a HOY candidate? Mr. Sherman certainly didn't say any such thing. He did say CC is the only horse with 4 grade 1 wins, which is obviously a mistake. In this particular instance, Mr. Sherman might simply have not known that Main Sequence also won 4 gr1's. Or he might only have meant 3-year-olds. Or he might simply have not thought of Main Sequence during that interview.

Get back to me when you reach the stage in your life when you never make a mistake, or misspeak, or otherwise fail to achieve the kind of impossible perfection too many seem to demand from everyone else other than themselves.

News flash: We are ALL human. Every single danged one of us. We are ALL subject to human failings.
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:48 pm

Somnambulist wrote:Who here is taking away people's happiness? If that's how people feel I strongly suggest a therapist because random people on the Internet should hold no sway.
Oh, so no one should push back against the people here who sourly ragged on pretty much everything about CC's Hollywood Derby? If anyone does, they need to see a therapist? Cute. Real cute.
Somnambulist

Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:54 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:
Somnambulist wrote:Who here is taking away people's happiness? If that's how people feel I strongly suggest a therapist because random people on the Internet should hold no sway.
Oh, so no one should push back against the people here who sourly ragged on pretty much everything about CC's Hollywood Derby? If anyone does, they need to see a therapist? Cute. Real cute.
Selective reading. I can't deal. White girl level.

See you all in May.
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dustino140
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:20 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:
Oh, so no one should push back against the people here who sourly ragged on pretty much everything about CC's Hollywood Derby?
I hope you can also agree that the "where can I actually go to enjoy his win" comments were very over the top. Might as well call it both ways, right?
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dustino140
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:28 pm

Tessablue wrote:I can't stand the owners either, but I find it hard to be overly critical of their decision given that Chrome was the only title contender who showed up (anywhere in the country) yesterday. Was it a safe bet against a weak field? Sure, but it was better than nothing, and I can't help but appreciate the novelty of a Derby winner taking down a G1 this late in the season on a new surface. This time of the year, we're usually bemoaning how the Derby winner (and sometimes the whole 3yo crop) is injured/retired/disappointing. Expressing outrage that the Derby winner chose a less-competitive post-BC G1 is a pretty good problem to have, IMO, and I can't fault people for being excited about the race.
It's a fine problem to have and I don't know how many times I can say that it's great that Chrome is still performing at an elite level before people actually believe I'm saying it ;). This isn't aimed at you, but it seems that there are a few different types of people on this forum and the most annoying are people who jump into a discussion 24 hours afterward and start condemning everyone when they missed any and all of the actual comments that kicked it off. There's one particular posteRR that's very good at that.

I think that if most people went back and read everything that caused the discussion to heat up and take off, people would be left thinking that it really wasn't that bad on either side.
Last edited by dustino140 on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Horsebagger
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:28 pm

I'm wrong all the time. You should see how many betting slips I've left in my wake. Comes with living life, I get it. But thanks for your preaching in defense of the failings of human kind, although you're making me nauseous in your blind defense of the connections. They are WAY over their heads, Papa included. You want to call it a human mistake.....fine. It's not like he's a part of the industry or anything. You can tack this one right up there next to the other one where he had his horse short for the biggest race of his life. At least he's freely admitting to that mistake.
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Ridan_Remembered
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:24 pm

dustino140 wrote:This isn't aimed at you, but it seems that there are a few different types of people on this forum and the most annoying are people who jump into a discussion 24 hours afterward and start condemning everyone when they missed any and all of the actual comments that kicked it off. There's one particular posteRR that's very good at that.

I think that if most people went back and read everything that caused the discussion to heat up and take off, people would be left thinking that it really wasn't that bad on either side.
So you can look through your screen and know who has and has not read this or any other tread? Hmm...nice eyesight you have there.

Do you seriously think my pointing out that we're all human, all subject to human failings is "condemning everyone?" That's ironic coming from a member of a cadre of people who can't seem to stop condemning everything about California Chrome, from his owners, to the races he runs in, to the competition he faces...heck, maybe even to the very air he breathes for all I know.
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dustino140
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Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:32 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:
dustino140 wrote:This isn't aimed at you, but it seems that there are a few different types of people on this forum and the most annoying are people who jump into a discussion 24 hours afterward and start condemning everyone when they missed any and all of the actual comments that kicked it off. There's one particular posteRR that's very good at that.

I think that if most people went back and read everything that caused the discussion to heat up and take off, people would be left thinking that it really wasn't that bad on either side.
So you can look through your screen and know who has and has not read this or any other tread? Hmm...nice eyesight you have there.

Do you seriously think my pointing out that we're all human, all subject to human failings is "condemning everyone?" That's ironic coming from a member of a cadre of people who can't seem to stop condemning everything about California Chrome, from his owners, to the races he runs in, to the competition he faces...heck, maybe even to the very air he breathes for all I know.
You're incredibly dramatic. Calm down. This is just about horses running in a circle.
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