The 12th Triple Crown winner

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Izvestia
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:20 pm

tcw wrote:Well, this should put an end to all of the talk about changing the TC format/schedule for a good while. I thought it was interesting what Steve Cauthen said, that there was talk in '79 when everyone thought that Spectacular Bid was going to be the 4th TC winner in 7 years that they should consider making the TC format more difficult. ;)
YES. I have always stood behind an opinion of "If they are good enough, they will win all 3". Spectacular Bid may be the asterisk there.

He was good enough.
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Sham
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:21 pm

Northport wrote:Who'd a thunk that the day the triple crown was won would also be the day of the most depressing and bitter post on Thoroughbred Champions
Nothing on the internet surprises me anymore.

There has to be a Rule 34-type thing for horsepeople where any event possible has its one or two contrarian idiots who can't help themselves.
Soto, Suni, Sham, whichever.
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Insane Crazy
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:25 pm

Sham wrote:
Northport wrote:Who'd a thunk that the day the triple crown was won would also be the day of the most depressing and bitter post on Thoroughbred Champions
Nothing on the internet surprises me anymore.

There has to be a Rule 34-type thing for horsepeople where any event possible has its one or two contrarian idiots who can't help themselves.
I don't mind folk not loving the horse, that's fine, but just dismissing the accomplishment is crazy-making. Ah, well. Tomorrow the sun will rise and AP will still be a TC winner, regardless of any internet negativity.
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no, but a race where they sit down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil? Well, I should say!
The Shadow
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:26 pm

Don't waste your time with this person. Seriously.
Kay16
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:26 pm

Somebody is just very sour about this accomplishment. I still find it interesting he continues to bring up the slow time of the Preakness under such circumstances but fails to give credit for American Pharoah's Belmont time which was one of the fastest in Belmont history.
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Kurenai
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:27 pm

I was one of the people who didn't really root for AP to win, but even I am happy and appreciate what a talent he is. (I still believe a little gelding at 100% could run him down though :P )
Kay16
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:27 pm

Insane Crazy wrote:
Sham wrote:
Northport wrote:Who'd a thunk that the day the triple crown was won would also be the day of the most depressing and bitter post on Thoroughbred Champions
Nothing on the internet surprises me anymore.

There has to be a Rule 34-type thing for horsepeople where any event possible has its one or two contrarian idiots who can't help themselves.
I don't mind folk not loving the horse, that's fine, but just dismissing the accomplishment is crazy-making. Ah, well. Tomorrow the sun will rise and AP will still be a TC winner, regardless of any internet negativity.
That he will and I'm so happy right now to have witnessed it. I still have a huge smile on my face.
a Flying Brick
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:29 pm

sorry but I think it was handed to him by virtue of no competition. That can happen. Retiring him right away? or we gonna see him maybe get some real competition in the Breeder's Cup ??? If Tonalist wasn't enough ... Shared Belief v. CC <<<< say no more. I wanna see him beat somebody who is somebody. To be continued.
Kay16
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:31 pm

a Flying Brick wrote:sorry but I think it was handed to him by virtue of no competition. That can happen. Retiring him right away? or we gonna see him maybe get some real competition in the Breeder's Cup ??? If Tonalist wasn't enough ... Shared Belief v. CC <<<< say no more. I wanna see him beat somebody who is somebody. To be continued.
Yes it can happen. TC winners happen all the time.


You're really wrong here and seriously out numbered. Give up. Admit defeat and just accept what you saw today. Life will be much better I promise.
a Flying Brick
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:34 pm

War Admiral wrote:
War Admiral wrote:I knew that as soon as he crossed the finish line and became the 12th TC winner that there would be some people who would have sour grapes. Is it really necessary to diss this accomplishment by saying the horses he ran against were all bums? I happen to think that Frosted, Dortmund, and Firing Line are all very nice horses and will probably get a few wins when they no longer have to face American Pharoah. What I witnessed today was probably my favorite moment in all of sports--even more so than when the Braves made it to the World Series in 1992 after being down by two runs in the bottom of the ninth. I have been waiting for a TC winner since the time I first started following racing in the late 1990s. I'd had my heart broken several times ( the two that hurt the worst were Smarty Jones and Big Brown). I don't think AP won today because the horses who ran against him were duds but because he clearly is the class of his crop. I've watched the replay several times and each time I am more more impressed with him. He made it look easy.
"very nice horses" doesn't cut it. Not when TCW is on the line. It should be hard fought not look like a matchup between Mr. T and Wally Cox.
a Flying Brick
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:36 pm

lurkey mclurker wrote:In 1924, the Belmont was run at a mile and three furlongs, not a mile and a half - per Wikipedia, it varied quite a bit until the current official distance of a mile and a half was established in 1926.

Or wait, now I'm confused. We're arguing about the Preakness distance? *scratches head*

Edit, back again. Preakness distances, per Wikipedia:

1 1⁄8 miles (1.81 km) : 1911–1924
1 3⁄16 miles (1.91 km) : 1925–present
Lurkey, we were talking about AP Preakness in the slop ...not the Belmont. Gotta read bro.
Kay16
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:37 pm

a Flying Brick wrote:
War Admiral wrote:
War Admiral wrote:I knew that as soon as he crossed the finish line and became the 12th TC winner that there would be some people who would have sour grapes. Is it really necessary to diss this accomplishment by saying the horses he ran against were all bums? I happen to think that Frosted, Dortmund, and Firing Line are all very nice horses and will probably get a few wins when they no longer have to face American Pharoah. What I witnessed today was probably my favorite moment in all of sports--even more so than when the Braves made it to the World Series in 1992 after being down by two runs in the bottom of the ninth. I have been waiting for a TC winner since the time I first started following racing in the late 1990s. I'd had my heart broken several times ( the two that hurt the worst were Smarty Jones and Big Brown). I don't think AP won today because the horses who ran against him were duds but because he clearly is the class of his crop. I've watched the replay several times and each time I am more more impressed with him. He made it look easy.
"very nice horses" doesn't cut it. Not when TCW is on the line. It should be hard fought not look like a matchup between Mr. T and Wally Cox.
Then I guess Count Fleet. Secretariat, etc were all undeserving.
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Insane Crazy
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:38 pm

Lots of horses have had "no competition" in weak crops and still failed to do it. Big Brown certainly comes to mind, Giacomo/Afleet Alex as well. That tells me that competition is just one of many factors that makes this achievement so brilliant.

Plus, other TC winners have run in crops that were on the weaker side, too. We still love them, somehow.

I think it is fine to process that he wasn't facing an animal as good as himself, but that doesn't erase the fact that what he did today was grand and extremely difficult. By doing so, I really do think you're missing out on something super that isn't determined entirely by the crop he's in. File that away for sure if it matters to you, but smile, Brick. It might be another 37 years before you get the chance to talk down a TC winner. ;)
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no, but a race where they sit down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil? Well, I should say!
lurkey mclurker
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:40 pm

Well, I'm a girl, and I can read, which is why I was confused about your link, which is not about the 1924 Preakness but the 1938 Preakness. And I was just pointing out that it was possible that the distances weren't the same, which could account for (at least partially) some of the time discrepancies.

ANYHOO. I just watched the replay again and who did he beat? Just the rest of the field who were on his heels for the first mile and a quarter and then had nothing left when he kicked in fresh for home.

I wasn't on a bandwagon, I've seen two triple crown winners and was alive for Secretariat's, but AP was much the best for three races in five weeks over a variety of surfaces in a variety of conditions. Who's he beaten? Everybody who's run against him except for his first start meltdown.

But, you know, free speech. Carry on, 'bro.' 8-)
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Insane Crazy
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:40 pm

Kay16 wrote:Then I guess Count Fleet. Secretariat, etc were all undeserving.
If Firing Line and Dortmund at their best, a horrific monsoon, and a field with every chance to pounce and a closing 4 furlongs faster than Secretariat's doesn't count at least a LITTLE as 'hard fought,' then I dunno what were supposed to be looking for.

I should take Shadow's advice and just disengage...and yet...
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no, but a race where they sit down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil? Well, I should say!
Colonel John
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:46 pm

Gatekeepers will always have something critical to say about the newcomers. After over ten years of watching horses fail in the Belmont, I'm just laughing off every negative comment because my generation finally has a TC champion.
The artist formerly known as The Colonel.
Kay16
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:49 pm

Insane Crazy wrote:
Kay16 wrote:Then I guess Count Fleet. Secretariat, etc were all undeserving.
If Firing Line and Dortmund at their best, a horrific monsoon, and a field with every chance to pounce and a closing 4 furlongs faster than Secretariat's doesn't count at least a LITTLE as 'hard fought,' then I dunno what were supposed to be looking for.

I should take Shadow's advice and just disengage...and yet...
Me either. Maybe if he ran splits of 44, 1.08, and 1.33 while winning by 50 lengths he'd be happy?
a Flying Brick
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Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:55 pm

[quote="Kay16]Then I guess Count Fleet. Secretariat, etc were all undeserving.[/quote]

Secretariat had fractions where he didn't have to run against anybody to prove his greatness. The numbers don't lie. He holds all the records last I looked .... so I wouldn't use him as an example. Nobody has come close to his under two minute Derby time, and his world record Belmont still stands and I don't see anyone coming close. When the fractions you lay down do the talking .... nothing more need be said. And btw Sham gave him his best shot all three times. Affirmed had Alydar hot on his heels. I'm sure there were many TC winners that were not all that deserving but again ... I wasn't around to see for myself. I only call it ... as I see it. Many thought the Slew didn't beat anybody either. I was one of em. He proved he was worthy
well after the TC when he jerked Affirmed's halter off TWICE as well as Exceller. Exceller gave him hell. We all have our own perspective. I'll wait to see if this was deserved ... right now ... I'm not convinced.
sweettalk
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Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:01 am

it's been 37 years. 37 years of watching horses fall apart in either the preakness or, more heart breakingly, the belmont, and when we finally get one that can do it, he isn't good enough for you. i don't know what you want, he isn't secretariat, but hey, no one else is ever going to be him.

if you're just gonna compare today's runners against the monsters of yesteryear, you're never going to be satisfied. so at this point, i can't do anything but dismiss your unnecessary "i'm unique and edgy because i don't like him" criticism.
a Flying Brick
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Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:02 am

Kay16 wrote:
Insane Crazy wrote:
Kay16 wrote:Then I guess Count Fleet. Secretariat, etc were all undeserving.
If Firing Line and Dortmund at their best, a horrific monsoon, and a field with every chance to pounce and a closing 4 furlongs faster than Secretariat's doesn't count at least a LITTLE as 'hard fought,' then I dunno what were supposed to be looking for.

I should take Shadow's advice and just disengage...and yet...
Me either. Maybe if he ran splits of 44, 1.08, and 1.33 while winning by 50 lengths he'd be happy?
ok, wait, who do you want to go on the record with that you felt that was really a horse AP had to worry about? Where is this horse? Who is he? Take AP out of the picture of all three races, who was the next best horse in your opinion?
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