105 Beyer

Post Reply
Admin
Posts: 1828
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:35 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:59 am

For the Belmont winner. So 105, 102, 105.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
User avatar
Ballerina
Posts: 3057
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:22 pm
Location: Chesapeake, VA & Saratoga, NY

Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:15 am

I would have thought it would be much higher than that.
User avatar
Insane Crazy
Posts: 3042
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:26 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:18 am

Ballerina wrote:I would have thought it would be much higher than that.
Kinda agree. Curious if those who calculate their own figures around here got anything different.
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no, but a race where they sit down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil? Well, I should say!
thinair
Posts: 1787
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:46 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:23 am

How big a fig should a horse that ran 0.52 seconds faster than Coach Inge get? If you assume V.E. Day got the same number in the Brooklyn as he got in the Travers, a stretch to me but I chose not to argue with Beyer about it, then 105 is the absolute right number for American Pharoah.
Admin
Posts: 1828
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:35 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:34 am

Insane Crazy wrote:
Ballerina wrote:I would have thought it would be much higher than that.
Kinda agree. Curious if those who calculate their own figures around here got anything different.
From what I've read, TG is estimating that their number from yesterday would likely match the one they gave him for the Derby, so they seem to be in agreement.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
Rick1323
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:00 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:56 am

Seems right based on the previous races. But please don't allow any fig to reduce what you saw.......
Everyone come home sound.....
User avatar
Insane Crazy
Posts: 3042
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:26 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:22 pm

I'm not the best with figures so it seemed low -- but I concede to all those more informed than I! Thanks for posting this, V.
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no, but a race where they sit down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil? Well, I should say!
the olline rebel
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:47 pm
Location: MD

Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:02 pm

I'm a bit surprised myself. I thought maybe a 110 what with the margins and that he ran one of the fastest Belmonts. But I don't know the times vs records of the other races on the card, so that is another piece of the puzzle needed.

But it is indeed consistent with his typical numbers. How does that translate for the trailers? Do they show typical too?
Horsebagger
Posts: 2158
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:18 pm

I don't think we saw the most incredible performance in the history of horse racing yesterday. I think the figure is solid and legit, and represents what we saw. Being real, that wasn't Secretariat like in any way. He got his trip (again), and was allowed to lope along in a gallop unpressured as he pleased. Taking nothing away from the horse at all, but if Jerry Bailey had a mount, we might have seen something different. Who knows. And I'm personally glad we didn't have to find out.

What we saw was an incredible achievement, which released emotions and frustrations that have been building in many of us for so many years. It's something to be rightfully celebrated, and I've come to reluctantly accept that maybe the racing gods chose this owner/trainer to carry the torch of a triple crown winner for a reason. Hopefully the questionable moral history we've learned about (a discussion/debate for another day) might be a yoke that binds them to do what's best for racing and let this horse be seen on the racetrack at least a few more times, much in the way Cigar was long ago. Run him at Monmouth for the Haskell so Bob can get his appearance fee, as always. Ship him to Saratoga for the Travers to showcase him in the home of racing's HOF (as was mentioned by the Mig). Find a spot in California for his Breeders Cup prep against older horses, and then get him to Kentucky for what is most likely his farewell coronation in our biggest race of the season. Hopefully he can stay sound and healthy and notch those four on his belt and then we can explore and discuss the chances, however small, of not cashing in on the big stallion pay check for a little longer.

I know I'm putting a lot of faith in the owner, and what he's said publicly about how 'racing needs a star' and 'this is for racing'. Can't tell you how many neighbors and friends and co-workers have reached out since yesterday, expressing how awesome yesterday was in front of their tvs, and their only exposure is me taking them occasionally to the track some mornings and race days. A tremendous opportunity for the industry is in front of us. Well, it's in your hands Ahmed. Congratulations. Please don't fuck it up and disappoint everyone.
peeptoad
Posts: 2846
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:53 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:39 pm

Horsebagger wrote:I don't think we saw the most incredible performance in the history of horse racing yesterday. I think the figure is solid and legit, and represents what we saw. Being real, that wasn't Secretariat like in any way. He got his trip (again), and was allowed to lope along in a gallop unpressured as he pleased. Taking nothing away from the horse at all, but if Jerry Bailey had a mount, we might have seen something different. Who knows. And I'm personally glad we didn't have to find out.

What we saw was an incredible achievement, which released emotions and frustrations that have been building in many of us for so many years. It's something to be rightfully celebrated, and I've come to reluctantly accept that maybe the racing gods chose this owner/trainer to carry the torch of a triple crown winner for a reason. Hopefully the questionable moral history we've learned about (a discussion/debate for another day) might be a yoke that binds them to do what's best for racing and let this horse be seen on the racetrack at least a few more times, much in the way Cigar was long ago. Run him at Monmouth for the Haskell so Bob can get his appearance fee, as always. Ship him to Saratoga for the Travers to showcase him in the home of racing's HOF (as was mentioned by the Mig). Find a spot in California for his Breeders Cup prep against older horses, and then get him to Kentucky for what is most likely his farewell coronation in our biggest race of the season. Hopefully he can stay sound and healthy and notch those four on his belt and then we can explore and discuss the chances, however small, of not cashing in on the big stallion pay check for a little longer.

I know I'm putting a lot of faith in the owner, and what he's said publicly about how 'racing needs a star' and 'this is for racing'. Can't tell you how many neighbors and friends and co-workers have reached out since yesterday, expressing how awesome yesterday was in front of their tvs, and their only exposure is me taking them occasionally to the track some mornings and race days. A tremendous opportunity for the industry is in front of us. Well, it's in your hands Ahmed. Congratulations. Please don't fuck it up and disappoint everyone.
Amen!
tcw
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:18 am

Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:43 pm

Considering Tonalist won the Belmont with 100 BSF, had Cali Chrome run a 105 in last year's "Test of the Champion" he would have been a TC winner too. Furthermore, the fact that AP not only ran a higher number going 12F in the third of three races during a 5 week period, but also a higher number than he received going 9.5F, says ALOT.
Tessablue
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:05 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:07 pm

Horsebagger wrote:I don't think we saw the most incredible performance in the history of horse racing yesterday. I think the figure is solid and legit, and represents what we saw. Being real, that wasn't Secretariat like in any way. He got his trip (again), and was allowed to lope along in a gallop unpressured as he pleased. Taking nothing away from the horse at all, but if Jerry Bailey had a mount, we might have seen something different. Who knows. And I'm personally glad we didn't have to find out.

What we saw was an incredible achievement, which released emotions and frustrations that have been building in many of us for so many years. It's something to be rightfully celebrated, and I've come to reluctantly accept that maybe the racing gods chose this owner/trainer to carry the torch of a triple crown winner for a reason. Hopefully the questionable moral history we've learned about (a discussion/debate for another day) might be a yoke that binds them to do what's best for racing and let this horse be seen on the racetrack at least a few more times, much in the way Cigar was long ago. Run him at Monmouth for the Haskell so Bob can get his appearance fee, as always. Ship him to Saratoga for the Travers to showcase him in the home of racing's HOF (as was mentioned by the Mig). Find a spot in California for his Breeders Cup prep against older horses, and then get him to Kentucky for what is most likely his farewell coronation in our biggest race of the season. Hopefully he can stay sound and healthy and notch those four on his belt and then we can explore and discuss the chances, however small, of not cashing in on the big stallion pay check for a little longer.

I know I'm putting a lot of faith in the owner, and what he's said publicly about how 'racing needs a star' and 'this is for racing'. Can't tell you how many neighbors and friends and co-workers have reached out since yesterday, expressing how awesome yesterday was in front of their tvs, and their only exposure is me taking them occasionally to the track some mornings and race days. A tremendous opportunity for the industry is in front of us. Well, it's in your hands Ahmed. Congratulations. Please don't fuck it up and disappoint everyone.
I want to frame this post. You nailed it.
tcw
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:18 am

Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:19 pm

Speaking of AP's future racing, it sounds like one writer thinks the Pacific Classic at DMR may be a good possibility before the BCC:

http://live.drf.com/nuggets/16341
User avatar
Turul
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: California

Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:50 pm

peeptoad wrote:
Horsebagger wrote:I don't think we saw the most incredible performance in the history of horse racing yesterday. I think the figure is solid and legit, and represents what we saw. Being real, that wasn't Secretariat like in any way. He got his trip (again), and was allowed to lope along in a gallop unpressured as he pleased. Taking nothing away from the horse at all, but if Jerry Bailey had a mount, we might have seen something different. Who knows. And I'm personally glad we didn't have to find out.

What we saw was an incredible achievement, which released emotions and frustrations that have been building in many of us for so many years. It's something to be rightfully celebrated, and I've come to reluctantly accept that maybe the racing gods chose this owner/trainer to carry the torch of a triple crown winner for a reason. Hopefully the questionable moral history we've learned about (a discussion/debate for another day) might be a yoke that binds them to do what's best for racing and let this horse be seen on the racetrack at least a few more times, much in the way Cigar was long ago. Run him at Monmouth for the Haskell so Bob can get his appearance fee, as always. Ship him to Saratoga for the Travers to showcase him in the home of racing's HOF (as was mentioned by the Mig). Find a spot in California for his Breeders Cup prep against older horses, and then get him to Kentucky for what is most likely his farewell coronation in our biggest race of the season. Hopefully he can stay sound and healthy and notch those four on his belt and then we can explore and discuss the chances, however small, of not cashing in on the big stallion pay check for a little longer.

I know I'm putting a lot of faith in the owner, and what he's said publicly about how 'racing needs a star' and 'this is for racing'. Can't tell you how many neighbors and friends and co-workers have reached out since yesterday, expressing how awesome yesterday was in front of their tvs, and their only exposure is me taking them occasionally to the track some mornings and race days. A tremendous opportunity for the industry is in front of us. Well, it's in your hands Ahmed. Congratulations. Please don't fuck it up and disappoint everyone.
Amen!
I DO think we saw the most incredible performance yesterday by AP. And really tired of hearing the Secretariat mantra as much as I have been an admirer of him. First off, horseracing is NOT only about numbers. If you want to be picky, Sec ran against only four opponents. I am sure had that been the case yesterday a legion of people here would throw that at AP: "Whom did he ran against?" Second, you can't compare horses' performance who raced 42 years apart. There is no way to put BOTH in the same race and observe how the dynamics of the race plays out. Racing can't be described by arithmetic equations.

The way he found a second gear yesterday and increased his lead was simply incredible. I feel really sorry for people who are unable to enjoy this magnificent horse and dwell in negatives.
Looking into the eyes of Cigar was a life changing experience.
peeptoad
Posts: 2846
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:53 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:12 pm

Turul wrote:
peeptoad wrote:
Horsebagger wrote:I don't think we saw the most incredible performance in the history of horse racing yesterday. I think the figure is solid and legit, and represents what we saw. Being real, that wasn't Secretariat like in any way. He got his trip (again), and was allowed to lope along in a gallop unpressured as he pleased. Taking nothing away from the horse at all, but if Jerry Bailey had a mount, we might have seen something different. Who knows. And I'm personally glad we didn't have to find out.

What we saw was an incredible achievement, which released emotions and frustrations that have been building in many of us for so many years. It's something to be rightfully celebrated, and I've come to reluctantly accept that maybe the racing gods chose this owner/trainer to carry the torch of a triple crown winner for a reason. Hopefully the questionable moral history we've learned about (a discussion/debate for another day) might be a yoke that binds them to do what's best for racing and let this horse be seen on the racetrack at least a few more times, much in the way Cigar was long ago. Run him at Monmouth for the Haskell so Bob can get his appearance fee, as always. Ship him to Saratoga for the Travers to showcase him in the home of racing's HOF (as was mentioned by the Mig). Find a spot in California for his Breeders Cup prep against older horses, and then get him to Kentucky for what is most likely his farewell coronation in our biggest race of the season. Hopefully he can stay sound and healthy and notch those four on his belt and then we can explore and discuss the chances, however small, of not cashing in on the big stallion pay check for a little longer.

I know I'm putting a lot of faith in the owner, and what he's said publicly about how 'racing needs a star' and 'this is for racing'. Can't tell you how many neighbors and friends and co-workers have reached out since yesterday, expressing how awesome yesterday was in front of their tvs, and their only exposure is me taking them occasionally to the track some mornings and race days. A tremendous opportunity for the industry is in front of us. Well, it's in your hands Ahmed. Congratulations. Please don't fuck it up and disappoint everyone.
Amen!
I DO think we saw the most incredible performance yesterday by AP. And really tired of hearing the Secretariat mantra as much as I have been an admirer of him. First off, horseracing is NOT only about numbers. If you want to be picky, Sec ran against only four opponents. I am sure had that been the case yesterday a legion of people here would throw that at AP: "Whom did he ran against?" Second, you can't compare horses' performance who raced 42 years apart. There is no way to put BOTH in the same race and observe how the dynamics of the race plays out. Racing can't be described by arithmetic equations.

The way he found a second gear yesterday and increased his lead was simply incredible. I feel really sorry for people who are unable to enjoy this magnificent horse and dwell in negatives.
I was responding to what I took as a very positive and reasonable post... I see nothing negative at all in Phaorah's win yesterday. It was a great day all around.
Horsebagger
Posts: 2158
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:26 pm

Turul wrote:
peeptoad wrote:
Horsebagger wrote:I don't think we saw the most incredible performance in the history of horse racing yesterday. I think the figure is solid and legit, and represents what we saw. Being real, that wasn't Secretariat like in any way. He got his trip (again), and was allowed to lope along in a gallop unpressured as he pleased. Taking nothing away from the horse at all, but if Jerry Bailey had a mount, we might have seen something different. Who knows. And I'm personally glad we didn't have to find out.

What we saw was an incredible achievement, which released emotions and frustrations that have been building in many of us for so many years. It's something to be rightfully celebrated, and I've come to reluctantly accept that maybe the racing gods chose this owner/trainer to carry the torch of a triple crown winner for a reason. Hopefully the questionable moral history we've learned about (a discussion/debate for another day) might be a yoke that binds them to do what's best for racing and let this horse be seen on the racetrack at least a few more times, much in the way Cigar was long ago. Run him at Monmouth for the Haskell so Bob can get his appearance fee, as always. Ship him to Saratoga for the Travers to showcase him in the home of racing's HOF (as was mentioned by the Mig). Find a spot in California for his Breeders Cup prep against older horses, and then get him to Kentucky for what is most likely his farewell coronation in our biggest race of the season. Hopefully he can stay sound and healthy and notch those four on his belt and then we can explore and discuss the chances, however small, of not cashing in on the big stallion pay check for a little longer.

I know I'm putting a lot of faith in the owner, and what he's said publicly about how 'racing needs a star' and 'this is for racing'. Can't tell you how many neighbors and friends and co-workers have reached out since yesterday, expressing how awesome yesterday was in front of their tvs, and their only exposure is me taking them occasionally to the track some mornings and race days. A tremendous opportunity for the industry is in front of us. Well, it's in your hands Ahmed. Congratulations. Please don't fuck it up and disappoint everyone.
Amen!
I DO think we saw the most incredible performance yesterday by AP. And really tired of hearing the Secretariat mantra as much as I have been an admirer of him. First off, horseracing is NOT only about numbers. If you want to be picky, Sec ran against only four opponents. I am sure had that been the case yesterday a legion of people here would throw that at AP: "Whom did he ran against?" Second, you can't compare horses' performance who raced 42 years apart. There is no way to put BOTH in the same race and observe how the dynamics of the race plays out. Racing can't be described by arithmetic equations.

The way he found a second gear yesterday and increased his lead was simply incredible. I feel really sorry for people who are unable to enjoy this magnificent horse and dwell in negatives.
A fairly dickish post, to be honest, projecting a lack of ability to comprehend what was actually a positive post, imo. You can feel sorry for people all you want. I'm comfortable with experiencing yesterday and placing everything in it's appropriate perspective and trust my own ability to do that. For what its worth, I can foresee betting against him more than a few times in wherever the balance of his career takes him. I haven't seen invincibility yet, and he's going to have to improve to beat older horses, if he ever faces them.
Apollo
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:05 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:53 pm

I love this. The doubters have something to desperately clutch, to tout.

Look, we weren't as pathetically wrong as you thought we were. So there.

As soon as I saw the running time in the Brooklyn, the Beyer in the Belmont wasn't going to be high. Not exactly complicated.
User avatar
larrythek
Posts: 979
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Los Angeles / San Francisco

Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:58 pm

With American Pharoah use just your eyes....Figures mean nothing in evaluating his ability..Same with Zenyatta---use your eyes... Her lifetime average BSF is barely 100 and was below it for some time. Together they won 27 of 29 Races and soon to be 2 HOYs...Average out the Beyers for those 27 wins and you would be looking at BSF 101--104????...Meaningless numbers.....
Great horses don't need figures to go by..The horses finishing behind them do.....Frosted looked so exhausted after the race he was sleeping in a fetal position on the hay. Pharaoh was doing group hugs this morning...

There were no "figures" when we had our last TC winner. Raw times and eyeballs... Pedigrees have always been a tool for professional handicappers and breeders in determining whether a horse could get a distance. Pharoah was bottom heavy with speed. I blockesd that out along with the other "Stats of doom". When he stepped off the van at Belmont I saw all I needed to know what was going to happen when he bowed his neck and jogged. The east coast talking heads-- Beyer, Crist, Sterling were all laughing before the Derby..."He beat Mr Z and he is going to be the next Seattle Slew".. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: . Many on the east coast had him finishing off the board.. West Coast Clockers however were saying since the end of last year that this horse was a freak not seen step on a track since the days of Triple Crown winners and horses like Ruffian, Dr. Fager and Forego..Baffert and Zayat were so quiet it was deafening.....
Last edited by larrythek on Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.
thinair
Posts: 1787
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:46 pm

Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:00 pm

Apollo wrote:
As soon as I saw the running time in the Brooklyn, the Beyer in the Belmont wasn't going to be high. Not exactly complicated.

This is a REALLY funny comment. REALLY funny.

Thanks.
User avatar
Turul
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: California

Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:06 pm

Horsebagger wrote:
A fairly dickish post, to be honest, projecting a lack of ability to comprehend what was actually a positive post, imo. You can feel sorry for people all you want. I'm comfortable with experiencing yesterday and placing everything in it's appropriate perspective and trust my own ability to do that. For what its worth, I can foresee betting against him more than a few times in wherever the balance of his career takes him. I haven't seen invincibility yet, and he's going to have to improve to beat older horses, if he ever faces them.
No, it wasn't a positive post. You did it with tongue in cheek, give a little and take a lot. Be happy as much as you want to be with your "evaluation". I am enjoying the moment and very pleased with what we saw yesterday, without giving any thought to relativist notions.
Looking into the eyes of Cigar was a life changing experience.
Post Reply