Beyer Figures have jumped the shark

thinair
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Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:24 pm

Admin wrote:
thinair wrote:
Admin wrote:Projection is not the same thing as adjusting for pace.
You do know the definition of the word "and".....right?
Oh, I certainly do. You said that Beyer adjusted Zenyatta's figures for pace, and when challenged, you suddenly stated saying pace and projection.
When challenged? You're sick. Honestly....sick.

Here is what I posted before your response....


thinair wrote:
Rick was wrong. Figures have been projected and adjusted for pace "forever" to quote Beyer ( yes, I called him....just for you ).

Why you keep trying to twist what I say to suit whatever deranged agenda you have is beyond me. Good luck with it.
Admin
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Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:39 pm

thinair wrote:
Psychotic Parakeet wrote:He was hellbent on making Zenyatta's figures low; even when one of them was a track [stakes] record over Del Mar's surface.
He bumped a number of them up because of moderate paces. The raw figures on a number of Zenyatta's races were REALLY slow.

There is nothing quite like a discussion of Beyer figs by people that know next to nothing about them. :D
Sick, I tell ya... sick....
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stark
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:39 pm

Now that that's all settled, next, can we do Equibase, Brisnet, Thorograph and Ragozin numbers (in no particular order), people who use them and what their quirks are, thanks in advance.

Not expecting anything proprietary from Len, Jerry or Ubercapper if they participate here, but what have you learned that you'd like to share about Speed Numbers and Prime Power Numbers and the list goes on!

For example, one of the very first things I ever learned some 25 years ago was that the Beyer numbers were not to be trusted for Turf racing, use them if you want for dirt, but "experts" seem to agree that their turf numbers were generally lacking. Is it time to change my mind or is that still a valid assumption?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Somnambulist

Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:51 pm

Cross referencing the Sheets and using BRIS has worked extremely well for me. Granted, extremely well for me is netting enough to cover my car payment on a small investment. I don't bet frequently or in large dominations.

I really like the Sheets. It appeals greatly to my analytical and once research-based/trained mind.
stark
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:55 pm

On a related note....

What do you think of somebody who would rather be at Tampa Bay Downs than the Kentucky Derby?

http://espn.go.com/horse/columns/misc/1707161.html
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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dustino140
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:00 pm

stark wrote:What do you think of somebody who would rather be at Tampa Bay Downs than the Kentucky Derby?
I completely understand.
Rick1323
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:01 pm

My 2 Derby trips were enough for one lifetime. I can't imagine 33 in a row.......
Everyone come home sound.....
stark
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:54 pm

Quoting Andy.... "I don't think I'm going to see anything new. I suppose if the reincarnation of Secretariat showed up for the race I could always go back. It's a real grind there."

I hope I never get that olde, jaded, burned out, call it whatever you want.

And to think that he was on an expense account all those years, that'$ the only thing holding me back from more. My one and only sojurn was a week in 1989 when I had wagered on Sunday Silence @ 50-1 in the future books. That didn't quite cover the $10,000 we spent at the Galt House next door to Charlie Whittingham or the box seats tour guide Jane Dempsey provided, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I had a friend who said, 10 grand??, Geezus---you could've gone to Europe for that! And I replied, yep, but then I would've missed the Derby!

Can you imagine saying I don't think I'm going to see anything new so what's the point in going to the World Series or SuperBowl, the Arc, heck even the Academy Awards if you're an actor could be viewed as a grind, but there's no place I'd rather be if that was my year-round passion.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Somnambulist

Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:01 pm

You couldn't pay me to go to the Derby with your money. I don't need to be around a bunch of trust funds getting wasted while watching horses get mauled in a 20 horse field.

I would rather be at Tampa, too.
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dustino140
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:39 pm

stark wrote:Quoting Andy.... "I don't think I'm going to see anything new. I suppose if the reincarnation of Secretariat showed up for the race I could always go back. It's a real grind there."

I hope I never get that olde, jaded, burned out, call it whatever you want.

And to think that he was on an expense account all those years, that'$ the only thing holding me back from more. My one and only sojurn was a week in 1989 when I had wagered on Sunday Silence @ 50-1 in the future books. That didn't quite cover the $10,000 we spent at the Galt House next door to Charlie Whittingham or the box seats tour guide Jane Dempsey provided, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I had a friend who said, 10 grand??, Geezus---you could've gone to Europe for that! And I replied, yep, but then I would've missed the Derby!

Can you imagine saying I don't think I'm going to see anything new so what's the point in going to the World Series or SuperBowl, the Arc, heck even the Academy Awards if you're an actor could be viewed as a grind, but there's no place I'd rather be if that was my year-round passion.
I don't understand your shock here, nor would I write it off as being jaded/burned out/etc. Personally, I can't stand crowds, crowded places, etc. They aren't something I seek out. Why would I want to deal with the crowds, lines, traffic, cost, annoyances, etc. every.single.year when when I can sit at home, drink my own beer, bet online and get a MUCH better view of the race in HD? It's one of those things that everyone should do once or twice, but that's enough for most people. Spending an afternoon with my 170k closest friends, in a venue or area not made for it, sounds nothing more than a hassle to me.
stark
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:44 pm

dustino140 wrote: I don't understand your shock here, nor would I write it off as being jaded/burned out/etc. Personally, I can't stand crowds, crowded places, etc. They aren't something I seek out. Why would I want to deal with the crowds, lines, traffic, cost, annoyances, etc. every.single.year when when I can sit at home, drink my own beer, bet online and get a MUCH better view of the race in HD? It's one of those things that everyone should do once or twice, but that's enough for most people. Spending an afternoon with my 170k closest friends, in a venue or area not made for it, sounds nothing more than a hassle to me.
Now if you can just become the majority opinion, then seats at the World Series, SuperBowl and The Derby should be about $20bucks in the future and I'm looking forward to it!
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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dustino140
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:49 pm

stark wrote:
dustino140 wrote: I don't understand your shock here, nor would I write it off as being jaded/burned out/etc. Personally, I can't stand crowds, crowded places, etc. They aren't something I seek out. Why would I want to deal with the crowds, lines, traffic, cost, annoyances, etc. every.single.year when when I can sit at home, drink my own beer, bet online and get a MUCH better view of the race in HD? It's one of those things that everyone should do once or twice, but that's enough for most people. Spending an afternoon with my 170k closest friends, in a venue or area not made for it, sounds nothing more than a hassle to me.
Now if you can just become the majority opinion, then seats at the World Series, SuperBowl and The Derby should be about $20bucks in the future and I'm looking forward to it!
I've said for years that more people should be like me. Good luck.
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pointgivenfan
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:53 pm

stark wrote: Can you imagine saying I don't think I'm going to see anything new so what's the point in going to the World Series or SuperBowl, the Arc, heck even the Academy Awards if you're an actor could be viewed as a grind, but there's no place I'd rather be if that was my year-round passion.
Yeah but the Arc is literally about half the crowd of the Derby, if even that. The crowd for the Arc when I went in 2010 was somewhere around 50,000, and it felt fine.

I was at Churchill for the BC in 2006 with around 75,000 in attendance, and even at that number it was a bit much. I have no desire to be smashed in there with over 100,000 other people. Sure the Derby is the Derby but at some times negatives outweigh the positives.
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Somnambulist

Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:55 pm

You have a seat that you can actually see the game in when you go to a baseball or football game, though.
stark
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:00 pm

Somnambulist wrote:You have a seat that you can actually see the game in when you go to a baseball or football game, though.
Just a guess that Andy had a decent seat reserved @ the Derby and could actually see the big race if he wasn't distracted watching a TV monitor for the 4th at Tampa!
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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dustino140
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:01 pm

pointgivenfan wrote:
stark wrote: Can you imagine saying I don't think I'm going to see anything new so what's the point in going to the World Series or SuperBowl, the Arc, heck even the Academy Awards if you're an actor could be viewed as a grind, but there's no place I'd rather be if that was my year-round passion.
Yeah but the Arc is literally about half the crowd of the Derby, if even that. The crowd for the Arc when I went in 2010 was somewhere around 50,000, and it felt fine.

I was at Churchill for the BC in 2006 with around 75,000 in attendance, and even at that number it was a bit much. I have no desire to be smashed in there with over 100,000 other people. Sure the Derby is the Derby but at some times negatives outweigh the positives.
Agree. Many sporting events make it work. You really can't compare horse racing to other events, too, because the Derby requires a constant up and down. Even if you go to the Super Bowl, you can conceivably sit down in your seat 90 minutes before kickoff and not move through the game. And your seat probably sees everything. In racing, you're up and down, in line betting and you miss a lot.

I've done a ton of horse racing events (and sporting events in general) and the Derby is far and away the least enjoyable. On one hand it's the Derby and it's cool, but on the other hand, like I said, it's a hassle. Do it once to say you did it, but you'll enjoy it more the next year when you aren't there.
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dustino140
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:02 pm

stark wrote:
Somnambulist wrote:You have a seat that you can actually see the game in when you go to a baseball or football game, though.
Just a guess that Andy had a decent seat reserved @ the Derby and could actually see the big race if he wasn't distracted watching a TV monitor for the 4th at Tampa!
Have you ever seen the Press Box or Press Area at a racetrack? They aren't exactly Millionaire's Row. Not saying that's where Beyer was, but again, not sure why you're still going on about this.
BlindLucky
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:12 pm

pointgivenfan wrote:
stark wrote: Can you imagine saying I don't think I'm going to see anything new so what's the point in going to the World Series or SuperBowl, the Arc, heck even the Academy Awards if you're an actor could be viewed as a grind, but there's no place I'd rather be if that was my year-round passion.
Yeah but the Arc is literally about half the crowd of the Derby, if even that. The crowd for the Arc when I went in 2010 was somewhere around 50,000, and it felt fine.

I was at Churchill for the BC in 2006 with around 75,000 in attendance, and even at that number it was a bit much. I have no desire to be smashed in there with over 100,000 other people. Sure the Derby is the Derby but at some times negatives outweigh the positives.
It's crazy packed for the Derby, especially late in the day, no doubt about that. But not all of those people are in the stands, half of them are in the infield--a place I never wish to go :lol:
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pointgivenfan
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:53 pm

BlindLucky wrote:
pointgivenfan wrote:
stark wrote: Can you imagine saying I don't think I'm going to see anything new so what's the point in going to the World Series or SuperBowl, the Arc, heck even the Academy Awards if you're an actor could be viewed as a grind, but there's no place I'd rather be if that was my year-round passion.
Yeah but the Arc is literally about half the crowd of the Derby, if even that. The crowd for the Arc when I went in 2010 was somewhere around 50,000, and it felt fine.

I was at Churchill for the BC in 2006 with around 75,000 in attendance, and even at that number it was a bit much. I have no desire to be smashed in there with over 100,000 other people. Sure the Derby is the Derby but at some times negatives outweigh the positives.
It's crazy packed for the Derby, especially late in the day, no doubt about that. But not all of those people are in the stands, half of them are in the infield--a place I never wish to go :lol:
That does nothing to change my mind. ;)

The only reasons I'm even considering one day going to my obligatory Derby is because my sister and brother-in-law now live in that area and therefore I've already got a place to stay, which I'm sure is half the battle, and because it's the Derby.

But if I never cross attending the Derby off of my racing bucket list, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
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luvthesales
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Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:12 pm

It's an event everyone should attend at least once; more if they so desire. I've been more than once, but I have no real desire to go back unless I have a horse in the race. I'm don't think I'm jaded or burnt out at all.

Working the Derby is real work. It's no picnic. I don't blame Beyer at all, and as he said, he can always go back.
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