Kentucky Derby : Do you agree with the stewards decision?

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Kentucky Derby : Do you agree with the stewards decision?

Yes
64
72%
No
25
28%
 
Total votes: 89
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Palace Malice
Posts: 73
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Sat May 04, 2019 7:45 pm

For me, no. :|

Maximum Security was clearly the best horse and Country House wasn't the most impacted horse.
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Miss Woodford
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Sat May 04, 2019 7:50 pm

The thing is, it doesn't matter if Country House was directly impacted. If Maximum Security impeded any of the other horses he had to be DQ'd, and the rest of the horses moved up in placing.
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ElPrado2
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Sat May 04, 2019 8:01 pm

It makes no difference if he was the impacted horse. He was the second horse. The 7 came very close to taking down most of the field. That would have looked like an 8 ball pool break if one horse fell. The horse nearly took them down veering to the outside, then the jock saw everything coming through and veered back inside again, to stop that from happening. They all had to take defensive rein to stop from going down. That could have been the pile up to end all pile ups.
stark
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Sat May 04, 2019 8:05 pm

Big mistake from the jock talking to the stewards....my horse spooked from the noise of the crowd but I straightened him out right away.

Guilty.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Palace Malice
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Sat May 04, 2019 8:09 pm

I'm surprised there is more yes than no :lol:
sweettalk
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Sat May 04, 2019 8:12 pm

Miss Woodford wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:50 pm
The thing is, it doesn't matter if Country House was directly impacted. If Maximum Security impeded any of the other horses he had to be DQ'd, and the rest of the horses moved up in placing.
then should we not have inquiries every year, since the start is chaos and we've seen loads of horses impacted and have to be taken up? there's no consistency at all in what matters, what constitutes a DQ, etc. if it was the right call, then they've missed a lot of other right calls.

inconsistency doesn't necessarily make this the wrong call, but that's where i bet a LOT the vitriol and controversy is coming from.

edit; this reads snarkier than i mean it to. it's not nasty, in my head, and i'm sorry to anyone who read it as nasty. just an observation, since a lot of times we see overhead shots of the bumper cars that is the start but i don't recall any inquiries from it, adding to the inconsistency observation.
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Starine
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Sat May 04, 2019 8:34 pm

My initial reaction was no; he was much the best.

But the more I watched the replays, it became harder and harder to ignore the several horses he bothered at such a critical junction of the race.
sweettalk
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Sat May 04, 2019 8:39 pm

Starine wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:34 pm
My initial reaction was no; he was much the best.

But the more I watched the replays, it became harder and harder to ignore the several horses he bothered at such a critical junction of the race.
one of the stills posted in the derby thread does show his back hooves between i think WoW's front hooves. i am starting to (quickly) rescind my initial "what the entire literal hell", but i am still angry that the unpredictable calls have led to there being such controversy.
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Starine
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Sat May 04, 2019 8:46 pm

sweettalk wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:39 pm
Starine wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:34 pm
My initial reaction was no; he was much the best.

But the more I watched the replays, it became harder and harder to ignore the several horses he bothered at such a critical junction of the race.
one of the stills posted in the derby thread does show his back hooves between i think WoW's front hooves. i am starting to (quickly) rescind my initial "what the entire literal hell", but i am still angry that the unpredictable calls have led to there being such controversy.
Yes, I have found myself defending the stewards for the past hour. One of my endurance riding friends literally wrote, "Since when do horses have to stay in their lanes?" Then another comment about how Maximum Security was a "baby" and it wasn't his fault that he was scared by the noise of the crowd. And the big comment was about "unintentional" it was and that was why he should have stayed up. Another person said that Maximum Security's jockey should be praised for straightening his horse out so quickly and not causing a collision. Ugh.
sweettalk
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Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Sat May 04, 2019 8:49 pm

yeah, in hindsight, hearing him start defending his horse immediately after the race was pretty sus. he knew he was in big trouble, i think. i don't like defending this, but it takes an idiot to not agree now that all the slow mos and close ups are out.

lol @ "since when are lanes a thing??" i need that one, thanks :lol:
stark
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Sat May 04, 2019 9:13 pm

Andy Serling
‏@andyserling

The idea that some people think this is bad for the game is preposterous. It is good for the game to demonstrate its integrity. Period. Also, quite frankly, controversy stirs up interest. Interest is good.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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CoronadosQuest
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Sat May 04, 2019 9:22 pm

Starine wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:46 pm
sweettalk wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:39 pm
Starine wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:34 pm
My initial reaction was no; he was much the best.

But the more I watched the replays, it became harder and harder to ignore the several horses he bothered at such a critical junction of the race.
one of the stills posted in the derby thread does show his back hooves between i think WoW's front hooves. i am starting to (quickly) rescind my initial "what the entire literal hell", but i am still angry that the unpredictable calls have led to there being such controversy.
Yes, I have found myself defending the stewards for the past hour. One of my endurance riding friends literally wrote, "Since when do horses have to stay in their lanes?" Then another comment about how Maximum Security was a "baby" and it wasn't his fault that he was scared by the noise of the crowd. And the big comment was about "unintentional" it was and that was why he should have stayed up. Another person said that Maximum Security's jockey should be praised for straightening his horse out so quickly and not causing a collision. Ugh.
I saw one twitter comment that I had to sit on my hands for and that was "Its the horses behind the front runners job to stay out of Maximum Security's way" LOL yea because all jockey's are psychic now and know when a horse will veer out into their path? Guess any horse not in the lead better slow down to a trot so the front runner can have his space!
Tessablue
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Sat May 04, 2019 9:30 pm

CoronadosQuest wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 9:22 pm

I saw one twitter comment that I had to sit on my hands for and that was "Its the horses behind the front runners job to stay out of Maximum Security's way" LOL yea because all jockey's are psychic now and know when a horse will veer out into their path? Guess any horse not in the lead better slow down to a trot so the front runner can have his space!
I think I saw that same comment... might be the hottest take of the day, and that's saying something.

Rewatched the race yet again and I'm a little surprised Code of Honor hasn't been brought up at all. Sure looks like Maximum Security bumped soundly with him after his jockey overcorrected. Full credit to Johnny V for a spectacular ride on CoH, he gave that horse every chance in this race.

It also looks like Maximum Security bore out because he switched leads early and couldn't corner.
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Summer Bird
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Location: NY

Sat May 04, 2019 9:50 pm

Longe Range Toddy’s connections also claimed foul and he almost got knocked over when War of Will pushed into him. I think their claim of foul was the reason he got disqualified
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Mylute
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Sat May 04, 2019 10:30 pm

The hottest takes of the day have to be someone saying "racing is dead" because of this and saying they shouldn't have done it because "a bum will be the winner." Similar scalding "takes" are the folks around here that are jumping ship because them rich people "robbed" them.

No, Karen, racing is not dead because the stewards disqualified Maximum Security. But it would be if God, fate, or whatever higher power we almost definitely have did not allow for War of Will to miss Max's hooves by an inch.

You can call this a "black eye" all you want to, but an even bigger black eye would be dealing with people now flying the "they didn't punish a jockey for almost causing a domino effect" flag they were preparing to paint.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
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Somnambulist
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Sat May 04, 2019 10:33 pm

Mylute wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 10:30 pm
The hottest takes of the day have to be someone saying "racing is dead" because of this and saying they shouldn't have done it because "a bum will be the winner." Similar scalding "takes" are the folks around here that are jumping ship because them rich people "robbed" them.
Well, I wish people would take issue with this on a day to day basis and show up to vote more. But that would be asking too much. It's deeply fascinating where people chose to apply ideas. It makes me want to go to grad school again... someone talk me out of that.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
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Treve
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Sun May 05, 2019 11:15 am

Somnambulist wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 10:33 pm
Mylute wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 10:30 pm
The hottest takes of the day have to be someone saying "racing is dead" because of this and saying they shouldn't have done it because "a bum will be the winner." Similar scalding "takes" are the folks around here that are jumping ship because them rich people "robbed" them.
Well, I wish people would take issue with this on a day to day basis and show up to vote more. But that would be asking too much. It's deeply fascinating where people chose to apply ideas. It makes me want to go to grad school again... someone talk me out of that.
As a fellow Millennial don't do it unless you win the lottery or someone who forgives student debt wins the presidency (dunno which is more likely to happen... lol)
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
stark
Posts: 4975
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Sun May 05, 2019 11:19 am

Will Luis Saez get suspended days for his ride?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
peeptoad
Posts: 2826
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:53 pm

Sun May 05, 2019 11:33 am

After letting this gel overnight after careful thought, and after seeing the close up/slow mo footage I am way more on the fence about this (orig against the DQ and still am, but for reasons other than what concretely happened ). It's mainly that additional footage that made me reconsider. It can be very challenging to make a meaningful decision in real time in a high pressure situation. I have respect for the stewards for that and they did their jobs. There is however some baggage attached to this that has not much to do with what happened on the track and some of the immediate comments made post-race on live TV, which understandably can cause the public to be more critical of the outcome (whatever the ultimate decision).
Agree that overall consistency is the real issue here.
Last edited by peeptoad on Sun May 05, 2019 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Treve
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Sun May 05, 2019 11:40 am

sweettalk wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:12 pm
Miss Woodford wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:50 pm
The thing is, it doesn't matter if Country House was directly impacted. If Maximum Security impeded any of the other horses he had to be DQ'd, and the rest of the horses moved up in placing.
then should we not have inquiries every year, since the start is chaos and we've seen loads of horses impacted and have to be taken up? there's no consistency at all in what matters, what constitutes a DQ, etc. if it was the right call, then they've missed a lot of other right calls.

inconsistency doesn't necessarily make this the wrong call, but that's where i bet a LOT the vitriol and controversy is coming from.

edit; this reads snarkier than i mean it to. it's not nasty, in my head, and i'm sorry to anyone who read it as nasty. just an observation, since a lot of times we see overhead shots of the bumper cars that is the start but i don't recall any inquiries from it, adding to the inconsistency observation.
This is what I believe. I think this call was the right one, but that doesn't erase past inconsistencies, nor do inconsistencies prevent this from being the right call.
I think of last year's Oaks and how everyone reacted to there even being an objection, saying it was poor sportsmenship etc. etc. Yet the front replay to me clearly showed MG knocking WG off stride - and pushing out. As she has done numerous times before and since, she got away with it in Kentucky but got served in Delaware.

About the start... I think one of the things is some horses who have been severely impacted at the start have still managed to finish ahead of the horses who impeded them. I thought there was also an unspoken understanding that because the Derby is the cavalry charge that it is, most jockeys are more forgiving and chalk it up to bad luck. It's also possible most people thought that because in the past in major events a horse didn't come down that should have, most of them figure it's not worth it.

Plus see how people are piling on Prat right now and see how people said some... not very nice things about Johnny V for filing an objection against Monomoy Girl last year in the Oaks. He can afford it but imagine if it was a lesser known or accomplished jock? Might end his career right there. Some jocks probably think for that reason alone it's not worth it to object.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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