Kentucky Derby : Do you agree with the stewards decision?

Kentucky Derby : Do you agree with the stewards decision?

Yes
64
72%
No
25
28%
 
Total votes: 89
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Sparrow Castle
Posts: 6018
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:44 pm

Mon May 13, 2019 10:58 pm

MR-W wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:48 pm
Sparrow Castle wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:41 pm
Hovdey: Weathering a Category 1 storm of controversy


“Had we taken that horse down, I think there would have been just as much controversy as there was by leaving him up,” Chaney said this week. “Clearly there was interference at the start. The subjective application of the rules comes after that. When we polled some international stewards afterwards, 70 percent of them thought it was ridiculous even to consider interference at the start of a mile and a quarter race, much less disqualify a horse.”


More: https://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-weather ... s/all-news
Not only was Shared Belief hammered at the start, but Moreno, the legit front running speed in the race was interfered with. Bayern had a free run at that point and should have come down. It might have upset certain bettors and connections but it would have been the right call to make.
I will never forget the gloomy pall that settled over my group of friends and me after that race. We'd been so looking forward to this race as we watched morning workouts all week and talked with others we knew at the track. Some of our most favorite horses were going to go head to head, Shared Belief and California Chrome in particular, what could be better. Then it was over as soon as the gates opened. We left the track immediately in disbelief that there was no DQ.

Sure, just wipe out the speed horse and start a chain reaction right out of the gate in order to steal the win for yourself, and there will be no consequences. Just look at the running lines and try to tell me that dangerous move by Garcia didn't influence the finish of that race. No, I'm actually not still bitter, but I will never forget that race and how it made me feel.

A horse race is an athletic competition, not a free-for-all anything goes demolition derby. Our favorites came back battered, but I'm grateful they came back alive. That's how I feel about this Derby too. I'm glad these stewards were forced by several jockeys to make the right call and hope this is the beginning of a new trend, one that actually puts the emphasis on the safety of horses and jockeys and a fair chance for all, even if that's a subjective ruling under Cat 1 or 2.

At Emerald Downs this weekend, our favorite horses all won and the breeder of one, a now 8 year old mare, came from Montana to check up on the last baby he foaled on his farm. He was delighted to see her happy and healthy, pampered and well-loved, and winning with her ears straight up. It warmed hearts to meet this breeder who still cared, and to show her off to him. That's the kind of horse racing I'm in love with.
stark
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Location: SoCal

Tue May 14, 2019 1:12 am

If anybody can locate the blimp shot video of the Bayern race it's worth a 1,000 words.

Would you believe he never made contact with anybody coming out of the gate!!
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Starine
Posts: 4433
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Location: South Carolina

Tue May 14, 2019 11:01 pm

The Week in Review: Derby Litigation Circus Could be a Long Ride
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/th ... long-ride/
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ThreeMustangs
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Tue May 14, 2019 11:41 pm

The Kentucky Derby, as Told by the Horses

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... the-horses

“War of Will: You know how when you’re running for a while your mind wanders? Well, this is kind of embarrassing, but I had just heard this joke the day before, and I decide to tell it to this one horse in front of me, the one leading everyone. I say, “Hey! Hey!” And he says, “What?” But, like, kind of annoyed. And I go, “Why the long face?” Now, I think it’s hilarious, but he says, “Seriously?” And that’s when he put his butt in my face.

Maximum Security: I may have put my butt in his face. But it wasn’t intentional. I was trying to get away from him, like at a party when you’re, like, “Oh, I see someone I know.”

Country House: When I heard him say, “Why the long face?,” I thought, He can’t have just said that. But I looked at him and he’s, like, “What?” And I said, “You know that’s the oldest joke in the world, right?” And I honestly think he had no idea.”
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Sparrow Castle
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Wed May 15, 2019 9:27 pm

Wests File Lawsuit Seeking Derby Overturn
Gary and Mary West filed a lawsuit Tuesday in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Kentucky Frankfort Division seeking that the Churchill stewards’ disqualification of Maximum Security (New Year’s Day) be overturned. The 33-page suit lists the three stewards–Barbara Borden, Brooks Becraft, and Tyler Picklesimer–as defendants, along with the chairman and all members of the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission.

The entire lawsuit may be read here.
More: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/we ... -overturn/
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Sparrow Castle
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Thu May 16, 2019 12:23 am

Op/Ed: Derby Lawsuit? Precedent Says No Chance
It has now been 12 days since the stewards at Churchill Downs made history by disqualifying Maximum Security in the 145th running of Kentucky Derby, the horse that crossed the finish line first, and awarding the victory to second-place finisher Country House.

As we all know by now, this was the first time the winner of this classic race, the most cherished race in all of American thoroughbred racing, was ever disqualified for having committed a foul during the running of the race. All of us who work in or bet on racing know disqualifications such as this one are commonplace and are also controversial with an abundance of strong opinions each way.

In 99% of those cases this is where the matter ends, with the connections of the disqualified horse (and those who bet) upset with the decision and the connections of the winner and the punters who benefitted happy and life goes on. Hey, after all, this is the racetrack . . . stuff happens, we move on, nature of the game.

But Maximum Security’s disqualification was a bit more serious and a lot more disputed because it occurred in the Kentucky Derby, and Gary and Mary West, the owners, were by all accounts, “damn upset.” Why not? Taking down the winner in the Derby never happened before and in their minds they wanted to make history…but not this way.

But legally speaking, if the Wests believe they can overturn this disqualification, despite how harsh this may sound, they are facing an uphill if not futile battle.
More: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/op ... no-chance/
Apollo
Posts: 344
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:05 pm

Thu May 16, 2019 3:07 am

The most pivotal aspect of this Derby was that the field never separated. Bob Baffert was the only one who correctly emphasized that. He is incredibly sharp. That's why he deserves to stand apart in this era. Every one of Baffert's post-Derby comments was smack on the money. He compared this year's Derby to a kid's soccer game.

I bet tons of matchups in the Derby every year. So the thing I anticipate most is when the order of finish is flashed on the screen. Included in that order of finish is beaten lengths at right. Almost without exception the Derby has incredible spacing. You'll have gaps of 5 and 8 and 12 lengths all over the place. This time I was briefly so astonished by the numbers at right that it took me several seconds to check where my matchup horses finished among the lot.

It was less than 18 lengths from 1st to 18th. That is seemingly impossible. I've never seen anything like it. Last year, for reference, it was more than 23 lengths from Justify to the 11th place horse. It was more than 42 lengths from 1st to 18th and more than 73 lengths from Justify to Mendelssohn in last, after Mendelssohn was basically eased.

The typical dispersion is the reason Churchill Downs gets away with the 20 horse maximum. IMO, it should be cut back by 20% at lowest, to a 16 horse maximum. But when you benefit from odds and juice in your favor every day you are also risking the odds catching up with you. That's what happened to Churchill Downs this time. Once in 40 samples is probably about right for something like this, a 2.5% chance. As much as I laugh at the absurdity of racing fans and stewards failing to differentiate between a 19 horse field and a typical weekday 8 horse allowance race, I'm hardly going to claim this type of scenario would play out time and again.

I told my family the next day that if they ran 20 horse fields once a week at a mile and a quarter it would probably play out this way once or twice per year on average, with a heavily disputed disqualification. If 20 horse fields occurred every day regardless of distance then you'd have multiple examples per week, and the disqualification standards would have to be sharply adjusted. Only the once per year aspect and mile and a quarter distance enables this race to get away with it.

Given human lifespan realities I'll likely never see another similar occurrence, but younger posters here probably will.
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Sparrow Castle
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Fri May 17, 2019 3:01 pm

‘Willing To Put My Money Where My Mouth Is’: West Issues $20 Million Challenge To Four Derby Runners
In an unprecedented move in thoroughbred racing, Gary West is offering up $20 million of his own money to the owners of Country House, War of Will, Long Range Toddy and Bodexpress if any of those horses finish ahead of Maximum Security the next time any of them race against him through Dec, 31, 2019.

West believes his offer of $5 million apiece to each of those four horses – simply for finishing ahead of Maximum Security – would result in record viewership and would generate worldwide interest.

If all five horses meet in the same race it would potentially create the most lucrative race in the world.

West, the owner of Maximum Security, the only horse to be disqualified from first place in 145 runnings of the Kentucky Derby, said his offer and the results of this “match race within a race” have no bearing and nothing to do with his horse's disqualification in the Kentucky Derby. He is willing to stipulate to that publicly, contending that the outcome of the Kentucky Derby is a completely separate issue and event.

West's intention with this opportunity and challenge is simply to generate additional interest in the sport.

There are no restrictions as to the type of race, what racetrack it is held at or the distance or track surface.

The offer is valid only for the next time Maximum Security meets any of the aforementioned horses in a race, whether it is in the same race or in four separate races.

“I am doing this because I think it would be good for racing and a unique opportunity to bring more people into racing because of the elevated interest this would bring to the sport,” West said.

West will give the owners of Country House (the elevated winner of the Kentucky Derby); War of Will (placed 7th after finishing 8th); Bodexpress (placed 13th after finishing 14th) and Long Range Toddy (placed 16th after finishing 17th) $5 million apiece if they finish ahead of Maximum Security the next time they meet in a race.

No horse has to win the race; the offer is simply based on the head-to-head result with Maximum Security.

In return, West is asking the owners of the other four horses to give him $5 million apiece if Maximum Security finishes ahead of their horse in the official chart.
More: https://www.paulickreport.com/news/trip ... y-runners/
stark
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Location: SoCal

Fri May 17, 2019 3:07 pm

That's taking "matchups" to a new level.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Tessablue
Posts: 3783
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Location: Boston

Fri May 17, 2019 4:04 pm

In return, West is asking the owners of the other four horses to give him $5 million apiece if Maximum Security finishes ahead of their horse in the official chart.
lol
stark
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Fri May 17, 2019 4:39 pm

They probably do something similar in Dubai where no gambling is allowed.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Mylute
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Fri May 17, 2019 4:46 pm

What a big, ridiculous, baby.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Charlie
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:34 pm

Fri May 17, 2019 5:55 pm

I mean it is an interesting proposal but of the general public doesn't know it's happening, what "good" will it do?

Seems like a nice cover up for being a sore loser though.
Horsebagger
Posts: 2065
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Fri May 17, 2019 7:56 pm

Mylute wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:46 pm
What a big, ridiculous, baby.
DING!!!
Horsebagger
Posts: 2065
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Fri May 17, 2019 7:56 pm

Charlie wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:55 pm
Seems like a nice cover up for being a sore loser though.
DONG!!!
Horsebagger
Posts: 2065
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm

Fri May 17, 2019 7:57 pm

Charlie wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:55 pm
Seems like a nice cover up for being a sore loser though.
DONG!!!
Somnambulist
Posts: 7666
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:59 pm

Fri May 17, 2019 8:57 pm

So rarely in life do people get such massive moments to be gracious.

I love seeing people botch it.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
BaroqueAgain1
Posts: 10136
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm

Fri May 17, 2019 9:26 pm

Everything I've read about the Wests has said what nice people they are.
This reaction to the DQ just seems so, so....uncharacteristic? :?
I'm not sure how old Gary West is, but I think he's a senior citizen. I wonder if his unwillingness to accept the outcome isn't just the bitter disappointment of winning the biggest race in America...and then having it taken away?
Maybe it's what often happens to seniors, like my own mom. She always had a bit of a temper but, as her mind started slipping, she lost any sort of filter between what she was thinking and what she actually said. :(
Somnambulist
Posts: 7666
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:59 pm

Fri May 17, 2019 10:28 pm

Didn't he threaten to sue the BC for phasing Lasix out a few years ago?

I'd say this is par. Rich old white guy doesn't get what he wants, news at 10. Being old doesn't give you a reason to be an ass. There are plenty of elderly people who remain pleasant.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
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ElPrado2
Posts: 2153
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:45 pm

Sat May 18, 2019 7:03 am

West is having a temper tantrum.
He has probably been told, more than once, that his lawsuit isn't too likely to be successful. So, now, he's lying on the floor having a hissy fit.
Other owners get dq'd without threatening lawsuits and match races.
He has rich old man syndrome. Tell him to have a good tumbler of scotch and calm down.
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