Article in New York Times states Justify failed a drug test before the Derby

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Curtis
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:42 am

stark wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:54 am
I'm not moving any goal posts Salad.
But I will point out that horse racing is basically the same sport you fell in love with, if it was the 60s, the 70's, the 80's, the 90's, or the 2000's. Some of the names have changed but that's about all.

The fact that you now have the internet and want to read autopsy reports for yourself is laughable.

Figure out a way to fall in love again, were you just stupid back then, head in the sand, or devoid of the WWW? Whatever it was, life was good once upon a time.
If the in-ter-net were around in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s, I wonder how Mel Stute’s “Push, Push, Push, Go find another one”, Farrell Jone’s “Make ‘Em then Break ‘Em” or Oscar Barrera’s “Move ‘Em Up with Moose Juice” would have played. I’m sure no one in charge knew of any of that.
stark
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:03 pm

Curtis wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:42 am

If the in-ter-net were around in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s, I wonder how Mel Stute’s “Push, Push, Push, Go find another one”, Farrell Jone’s “Make ‘Em then Break ‘Em” or Oscar Barrera’s “Move ‘Em Up with Moose Juice” would have played. I’m sure no one in charge knew of any of that.
And the list goes on, good memories, thanks.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Charlie
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:13 pm

Stark, why do you want racing to stay as is? As a fan shouldn’t you want it to grow and be better, not just stay stagnate bc hey it’s what they’ve always done?
stark
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:59 pm

Charlie wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:13 pm
Stark, why do you want racing to stay as is? As a fan shouldn’t you want it to grow and be better, not just stay stagnate bc hey it’s what they’ve always done?
I'm all in favor of growth and getting better. In fact, horse racing is about 117percent better than when I first fell in love with it, and I appreciate it.
I vividly remember having to listen to the radio at 6pm if you wanted the days results from the local track. If I missed that I had to wait for the morning newspaper.
I remember having to place wagers thru the neighborhood bookie. Some Monday mornings were a problem when he was $trangely absent from his post. The fact that deposits are made today within seconds of the OFFICIAL being posted to my bank account is nothing short of a miracle by comparison..
If I really wanted to watch and wager on the Wood Memorial I had to drive 300 miles to Vegas and even then then there were payoff limits on exactas and daily doubles no matter what the payoff was on track.
I remember when getting into ownership was a bit of a mystery to outsiders but then came partnerships where if you had $10,000 and wanted to buy a piece of a horse there were folks who would broker the deal.
I remember having to wait for Saturday afternoons to see Gil Stratton call 'em like we see 'em on the feature race of the week on TV, one race period.
I remember when the betting menu was relatively simple, a daily double to start things off, then $5exactas on races 5-7-9. Today all it takes is a few dimes to make a big score, and your not limited to the track you live closest too.
When HOF trainer Charlie Whittingham sent out a 2yo first timer with HOF jockey Willie Shoemaker in the saddle we knew from experience this was not a bet to make, better to wait until next time. But we didn't yell STIFF from the rooftops that they were defrauding the public by entering with no expectations of exerting themselves.
And then there was Oscar Barrera entering on Thursday and Sunday with the best hay and oats money could buy.

Ahhh yes, racing has changed, most of it for the better but life ain't always perfect, nor is it always fair.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Curtis
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:55 pm

stark wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:59 pm
Charlie wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:13 pm
Stark, why do you want racing to stay as is? As a fan shouldn’t you want it to grow and be better, not just stay stagnate bc hey it’s what they’ve always done?
I'm all in favor of growth and getting better. In fact, horse racing is about 117percent better than when I first fell in love with it, and I appreciate it.
I vividly remember having to listen to the radio at 6pm if you wanted the days results from the local track. If I missed that I had to wait for the morning newspaper.
I remember having to place wagers thru the neighborhood bookie. Some Monday mornings were a problem when he was $trangely absent from his post. The fact that deposits are made today within seconds of the OFFICIAL being posted to my bank account is nothing short of a miracle by comparison..
If I really wanted to watch and wager on the Wood Memorial I had to drive 300 miles to Vegas and even then then there were payoff limits on exactas and daily doubles no matter what the payoff was on track.
I remember when getting into ownership was a bit of a mystery to outsiders but then came partnerships where if you had $10,000 and wanted to buy a piece of a horse there were folks who would broker the deal.
I remember having to wait for Saturday afternoons to see Gil Stratton call 'em like we see 'em on the feature race of the week on TV, one race period.
I remember when the betting menu was relatively simple, a daily double to start things off, then $5exactas on races 5-7-9. Today all it takes is a few dimes to make a big score, and your not limited to the track you live closest too.
When HOF trainer Charlie Whittingham sent out a 2yo first timer with HOF jockey Willie Shoemaker in the saddle we knew from experience this was not a bet to make, better to wait until next time. But we didn't yell STIFF from the rooftops that they were defrauding the public by entering with no expectations of exerting themselves.
And then there was Oscar Barrera entering on Thursday and Sunday with the best hay and oats money could buy.

Ahhh yes, racing has changed, most of it for the better but life ain't always perfect, nor is it always fair.
Speaking of Whittingham, Shoemaker and first time starters, I’ll never forget Hidden Light’s first start in 1985 during, I believe, the Oak Tree meeting. Most of Whittingham’s firsters, especially when ridden by Shoemaker or Donald Pierce, would break with the field in a 6f MSW, and then drop back near the rear with either Shoe or Pierce sitting like a statue. At the 1/4M pole, they’d let out a notch and then go back to being still and let the horse finish on it’s own where, more times than not, it would finish 5th. If the Cincofecta existed then you could have back wheeled these horses without impunity. So out comes Hidden Light for her debut with Shoemaker. Impeccably bred—Majestic Light out of the terrific mare Tallahto—she could be any kind but the scenario I just described was foreseen as she was app.7-1 in a 6f MSW. So the 2yo fillies break and instead of dropping like a rock, Hidden Light is 4th with Shoe not still but taking ahold. Soon she’s 3rd and at the 3/16th pole she’s 2nd at the all-out leader’s throat latch. Down the stretch, Hidden Light was bouncing away, winning for fun, with Shoe putting on the brakes like he’s on a horse in the morning wanting to go 57 and change while he wants it to go in a minute. When she was galloped back, every bit of Charlie’s bald pate had turned from red to purple and he began gesticulating and raising his voice. Think the father in A Christmas Story when he’s doing battle with the furnace. Shoe did his best to not make eye contact but finally—via lip reading—I ascertained he said what amounted to, “ Dammit Charlie, I couldn’t hold her!!” Ah, the good old days.
Last edited by Curtis on Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stark
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:32 pm

Last add re: Hidden Light and her rise to fame for those that weren't there to enjoy it...
Santa Anita 3/23/1986 8 Santa Anita Oaks (Gr. 1) FIRST
Santa Anita 3/5/1986 8 La Habra Stakes FIRST
Santa Anita 2/22/1986 5 Allowance FIRST
Santa Anita 11/3/1985 6 Maiden Special Weight FIRST

and there were no statistics available in your PP's reporting that the 1/47 trainer trend with first timers resulted in a negative ROI.
One had to keep their own stats, have a great memory, whatever worked.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Curtis
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:35 pm

stark wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:32 pm
Last add re: Hidden Light and her rise to fame for those that weren't there to enjoy it...
Santa Anita 3/23/1986 8 Santa Anita Oaks (Gr. 1) FIRST
Santa Anita 3/5/1986 8 La Habra Stakes FIRST
Santa Anita 2/22/1986 5 Allowance FIRST
Santa Anita 11/3/1985 6 Maiden Special Weight FIRST

and there were no statistics available in your PP's reporting that the 1/47 trainer trend with first timers resulted in a negative ROI.
One had to keep their own stats, have a great memory, whatever worked.
She was a good one and I’ll bet Charlie didn’t have a dime on her when she debuted. I always wondered if Shoe did.😉
stark
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:42 pm

I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Location: SoCal

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:21 pm

stark wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:42 pm
According to Ray Paulick....

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray- ... 4627473045
As per usual, the 47+ readers responses are entertaining to read.
I guess the moral of the story is be careful what you wish for, the next political appointee could be worse than the one you just got rid of.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Curtis
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Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:54 pm

stark wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:21 pm
stark wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:42 pm
According to Ray Paulick....

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray- ... 4627473045
As per usual, the 47+ readers responses are entertaining to read.
I guess the moral of the story is be careful what you wish for, the next political appointee could be worse than the one you just got rid of.
Well we could also wait and see what she actually does....... If she kills racing as we know it and Santa Anita is developed, you can hang her in effigy above the Seabiscuit statue just as the Churchill Downs Board, from a few years back, should be hung above So-Fi Stadium.
MySaladDays
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:37 am

stark wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:54 am
Figure out a way to fall in love again
I think you misunderstood me. I'm STILL involved in horse racing. Just not U.S. horse racing. Plenty of good stuff to follow elsewhere. ;)
MySaladDays
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:59 am

]
stark wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:59 pm
Ahhh yes, racing has changed, most of it for the better but life ain't always perfect, nor is it always fair.
this isn't about the good ol' days, perfection or fairness.

This is about a cover up.

Do you always obsfucate like this? Maybe people don't call you on it.
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Charlie
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:03 am

stark wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:59 pm
Charlie wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:13 pm
Stark, why do you want racing to stay as is? As a fan shouldn’t you want it to grow and be better, not just stay stagnate bc hey it’s what they’ve always done?
I'm all in favor of growth and getting better. In fact, horse racing is about 117percent better than when I first fell in love with it, and I appreciate it.
I vividly remember having to listen to the radio at 6pm if you wanted the days results from the local track. If I missed that I had to wait for the morning newspaper.
I remember having to place wagers thru the neighborhood bookie. Some Monday mornings were a problem when he was $trangely absent from his post. The fact that deposits are made today within seconds of the OFFICIAL being posted to my bank account is nothing short of a miracle by comparison..
If I really wanted to watch and wager on the Wood Memorial I had to drive 300 miles to Vegas and even then then there were payoff limits on exactas and daily doubles no matter what the payoff was on track.
I remember when getting into ownership was a bit of a mystery to outsiders but then came partnerships where if you had $10,000 and wanted to buy a piece of a horse there were folks who would broker the deal.
I remember having to wait for Saturday afternoons to see Gil Stratton call 'em like we see 'em on the feature race of the week on TV, one race period.
I remember when the betting menu was relatively simple, a daily double to start things off, then $5exactas on races 5-7-9. Today all it takes is a few dimes to make a big score, and your not limited to the track you live closest too.
When HOF trainer Charlie Whittingham sent out a 2yo first timer with HOF jockey Willie Shoemaker in the saddle we knew from experience this was not a bet to make, better to wait until next time. But we didn't yell STIFF from the rooftops that they were defrauding the public by entering with no expectations of exerting themselves.
And then there was Oscar Barrera entering on Thursday and Sunday with the best hay and oats money could buy.

Ahhh yes, racing has changed, most of it for the better but life ain't always perfect, nor is it always fair.
None of that answered my question. Obviously the mechanics of betting and ownership have changed. But why are you so ok with the fact that it’s ok to cover up when a horse pops a substance over the legal limit. You like that a mega trainer can get special treatment?
stark
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:16 am

Charlie wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:03 am
None of that answered my question. Obviously the mechanics of betting and ownership have changed. But why are you so ok with the fact that it’s ok to cover up when a horse pops a substance over the legal limit. You like that a mega trainer can get special treatment?
Never ever did I even hint that I liked the outcome in this case.

Sometimes in life you just have to learn to accept the decisions from those who are empowered make.
I didn't like the decision in the megastar OJ Simpson murder trial, but guess what, life goes on.
I don't like a lot of the decisions elected politicians make, but guess what, that's how the system works.
This ain't no dress rehearsal for the next life, better to figure out a way to enjoy what you can, while you still can.
IMHO.
Last edited by stark on Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
Posts: 5950
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:55 am
Location: SoCal

Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:24 am

MySaladDays wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:37 am
stark wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:54 am
Figure out a way to fall in love again
I think you misunderstood me. I'm STILL involved in horse racing. Just not U.S. horse racing. Plenty of good stuff to follow elsewhere. ;)
Oh, that's right, I think you said something about following Honk Kong racing which for me would be near impossible due to time differences and the minimal schedule not being to my liking.

Not sure where your home track is, but if you're ever in the Santa Anita neighborhood, you now have a standing invitation to be there at sunrise someday and take a leisurely stroll around the backside barns. It can work wonders for the attitude, just maybe even let you fall in love all over again!
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Charlie
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:21 pm

stark wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:16 am
Charlie wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:03 am
None of that answered my question. Obviously the mechanics of betting and ownership have changed. But why are you so ok with the fact that it’s ok to cover up when a horse pops a substance over the legal limit. You like that a mega trainer can get special treatment?
Never ever did I even hint that I liked the outcome in this case.

Sometimes in life you just have to learn to accept the decisions from those who are empowered make.
I didn't like the decision in the megastar OJ Simpson murder trial, but guess what, life goes on.
I don't like a lot of the decisions elected politicians make, but guess what, that's how the system works.
This ain't no dress rehearsal for the next life, better to figure out a way to enjoy what you can, while you still can.
IMHO.
You sure are backing up and defending a result you don't like. That attitude of how "that's how the system works" is why horse racing and the government (since you brought it up) are in the state they are in.
stark
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:17 pm

Charlie wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:21 pm
You sure are backing up and defending a result you don't like. That attitude of how "that's how the system works" is why horse racing and the government (since you brought it up) are in the state they are in.
Keep us updated on your progress of waking up every morning with your panties all bunched up, that's a choice you make that doesn't work for me.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
greyhorse
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:30 pm

I was born and lived the first 29 years of my life in California, but moved to Arizona two years ago because I couldn't put up with it anymore. How many people have to move out of the state for the politicians to care? The same amount that have to boycott horse racing for the powers-that-be to care?
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Curtis
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:51 pm

greyhorse wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:30 pm
I was born and lived the first 29 years of my life in California, but moved to Arizona two years ago because I couldn't put up with it anymore. How many people have to move out of the state for the politicians to care? The same amount that have to boycott horse racing for the powers-that-be to care?
I was born and lived the first 46 years of my life in California but moved to WA 10 years ago. The Governor, at that time, couldn't pronounce the name of the state, nor did I find him particularly adept at governing but I digress.
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Starine
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Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:35 pm

The story behind Justify’s positive drug test: A misleading bombshell scoop, a damning lack of transparency and another unforced error by racing officials

By Tim Layden

https://sports.nbcsports.com/2019/09/25 ... ssion=true
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