Breeders Cup Discussion?

sweettalk
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:59 pm

warning, a few are posting the video of the breakdown on twitter. if you're surfing for news, just keep this in mind.
CorridorZ75
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:07 pm

Kurenai wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:33 pm
sweettalk wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:29 pm
https://twitter.com/paulickreport/statu ... 0411377672

pastern and lower cannon bone...
Taken from the twitter post: Horse has been radiographed and has fractures in the lower portion of his cannon bone and upper portion of his pastern.

Compound fracture. He stepped on it again after it was broken if it's in 2 places most likely (I'm not a vet, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Exactly like Barbaros injury.
Compound fracture indicates it is open/ through the skin. I didn't see this written, but I could have missed it and wouldn't be surprised. Regardless, it will be a very challenging injury to fix, even if possible, considering the likelihood of severe compromise of the blood supply to the lower limb. Honestly, this would likely be the type of injury where it would be nice if prosthestics were further along in their testing on horses. Granted, that kind of solution very much depends on the acceptance of the horse.

I wonder if the owners/ sponsors hadn't put up that supplemental fee, they would have been more willing to withdraw from the race after the disappointing workout.
Timely Writer
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:12 pm

Inspected this horse as a 2yo at OBS, he was crooked and had issues that I do not recall on his radiographs
Somnambulist

Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:14 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:07 pm
I wonder if the owners/ sponsors hadn't put up that supplemental fee, they would have been more willing to withdraw from the race after the disappointing workout.
There's no insurance on this (legit just curious - sometimes there is, for a price)? I guess I'm just curious - if you got $100k to gamble on I figure you should be ok with it.
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Kurenai
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:16 pm

Compound fracture indicates it is open/ through the skin.
I always thought a compound fracture means it's lots of bone shards instead of a clear break. Thanks for correcting me!

In German there's 3 different things: fracture, "trümmerbruch" translates to "debris fracture"(lots of bone shards) and "open fracture" (going through skin).
sweettalk
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:17 pm

Timely Writer wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:12 pm
Inspected this horse as a 2yo at OBS, he was crooked and had issues that I do not recall on his radiographs
that's a very big problem that racing should be waaaay more concerned about than they are.
Somnambulist

Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:20 pm

sweettalk wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:17 pm
Timely Writer wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:12 pm
Inspected this horse as a 2yo at OBS, he was crooked and had issues that I do not recall on his radiographs
that's a very big problem that racing should be waaaay more concerned about than they are.
Radiology poses a problem the same way it does in people. I have had upwards of 50 radiology reports in my lifetime - not everything means something. We need more info here before we conclude anything on it.

I'm more likely to believe swallowing a $100k pill for nothing played a part. But I'm tired and I am cynical.
sweettalk
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:24 pm

there was a whole thing in the breeding section about x-rays and radiographs being fudged at sales. the articles cited may have been over stating it, to be fair, but it read as a widespread issue that gets buried as a dirty secret. not being a buyer, i don't know how over stated it was *shrug emoji*
Tessablue
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:25 pm

I wonder if he received bisphosphonates :(
CorridorZ75
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:26 pm

Wasn't it $200K?
And yes, the more advancement in radiology, the more we have to determine what is significant versus not. This will likely end up happening when they bring in the PET scans as well.
CorridorZ75
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:27 pm

sweettalk wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:24 pm
there was a whole thing in the breeding section about x-rays and radiographs being fudged at sales. the articles cited may have been over stating it, to be fair, but it read as a widespread issue that gets buried as a dirty secret. not being a buyer, i don't know how over stated it was *shrug emoji*
This was the dating of the radiographs. They are supposed to be taken within a certain time frame, but before huge sales like Keeneland September, there is only so much time in a day, so vets were taking the radiographs earlier than they should and changing the dates. I don't think they changed the radiographs otherwise.
Somnambulist

Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:28 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:26 pm
Wasn't it $200K?
Even worse/more likely then! :(
Tessablue
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:32 pm

Hearing more from a friend who was present in the mornings that it wasn't a secret. I feel so sick.
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Falinadin
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:43 pm

Kurenai wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:16 pm
I always thought a compound fracture means it's lots of bone shards instead of a clear break. Thanks for correcting me!
You were right. An open fracture means bone is exposed, a compound fracture means multiple fragments.
In this case, I would classify it as 2 separate fractures, rather than compound (they could each be compound of course, but we don't have any info on that).
As far as prognosis goes, it depends on the orientation, displacement, soft tissue damage, etc. A nice simple oblique fracture that doesn't involve the joint might be easily fixed with a couple lag screws. A compound transverse is tougher and would need plates with screws to keep the fragments together, but there is risk of a fragment dying and complicating healing.
sweettalk
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:43 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:27 pm
sweettalk wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:24 pm
there was a whole thing in the breeding section about x-rays and radiographs being fudged at sales. the articles cited may have been over stating it, to be fair, but it read as a widespread issue that gets buried as a dirty secret. not being a buyer, i don't know how over stated it was *shrug emoji*
This was the dating of the radiographs. They are supposed to be taken within a certain time frame, but before huge sales like Keeneland September, there is only so much time in a day, so vets were taking the radiographs earlier than they should and changing the dates. I don't think they changed the radiographs otherwise.
ooh, yeah i missed that part. thank you for the clarificarion
shadowofthewire
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:46 pm

Per Jay Privman, Mongolian Groom has been euthanized. https://twitter.com/DRFPrivman/status/1 ... 50849?s=20

I'm absolutely gutted. RIP.
Last edited by shadowofthewire on Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CorridorZ75
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:46 pm

Falinadin wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:43 pm
Kurenai wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:16 pm
I always thought a compound fracture means it's lots of bone shards instead of a clear break. Thanks for correcting me!
You were right. An open fracture means bone is exposed, a compound fracture means multiple fragments.
In this case, I would classify it as 2 separate fractures, rather than compound (they could each be compound of course, but we don't have any info on that).
As far as prognosis goes, it depends on the orientation, displacement, soft tissue damage, etc. A nice simple oblique fracture that doesn't involve the joint might be easily fixed with a couple lag screws. A compound transverse is tougher and would need plates with screws to keep the fragments together, but there is risk of a fragment dying and complicating healing.
Multiple fragments is a comminuted fracture. However, whatever you call it, it is very bad for the horse.
Somnambulist

Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:49 pm

shadowofthewire wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:46 pm
Per Jay Privman, Mongolian Groom has been euthanized. https://twitter.com/DRFPrivman/status/1 ... 50849?s=20

I'm absolutely gutted. RIP.
If this is true they did the right thing by him. I am really just so upset I could cry, and I didn't even think I had a heart left. Surprise - I do. It's heavy.
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Falinadin
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:56 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:46 pm
Multiple fragments is a comminuted fracture. However, whatever you call it, it is very bad for the horse.
Oof you're right, my bad. Guess that means its time for me to go to bed.
Sad news for Mongolian Groom :(
Tessablue
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Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:00 pm

I'm glad they didn't let laminitis claim him. May he rest in peace.

Prior to this year, I'd been fortunate to never witness a stretch breakdown in person. This year, on the second to last day at Suffolk, my mother fell in love with a longshot in the post parade. My husband and I teased her because he looked overweight, but we all cheered him on in the stretch. He broke down badly and was euthanized on track. The card was canceled shortly thereafter due to a storm and it will forever be my mother's last memory of the place. Her first day at the track was Ruffian's match race, she knows the score in this sport, but she said "I'm not as sad as I thought I would be that this place is shutting down" as she left.

At Saratoga, my mother left early on the final card while my husband and I stayed behind to watch the last race of the meet from the rail. I thought it would be neat to see the last race and I was alive in the double to a nice looking longshot. Borough Boy led all the way before falling in the stretch in front of everyone. He was euthanized on the track. My last memory of this year's Saratoga meet was of people weeping as they fled from the rail.

A few weeks ago, my favorite European horse, the lovely and promising Goddess, died during a race. Today, I found it hard to watch each race for longer than a few seconds. I got a pit in my gut every time they showed Mongolian Groom or his connections, thinking back to what I'd read from people at the track.

I don't know what the point of writing this is. It's been a very tough year, for a lot of reasons beyond this sport, and I'm just so deeply sad about all of it. I know there's something worth salvaging in this sport; we all saw it earlier today. But it's clearer than ever that the idealized form of this sport many of us grew up on simply isn't reality. And we just... we have to do better. For everyone's sake, but especially the horses'.
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