2019 Eclipse Awards-Predictions?

thinair
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Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:00 pm

British Idiom will win, and while I'm not saying she's undeserving, too many voters don't really pay attention and pretty much just look at the BC ( which is why Storm the Court is almost a certain winner...not that there are a boatload of super deserving candidates ). However, I could vote for Bast ( I don't actually have a vote ). She has the resume and arguably ran the best race in the BC Juvenile Fillies. While it is fairly a result oriented award, her record is good enough to take her overall BC performance into account.

From a personal standpoint, I actually want British Idiom to win....but from a voter's standpoint I would find it a reasonable dilemma.
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Curtis
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Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:30 pm

thinair wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:00 pm
British Idiom will win, and while I'm not saying she's undeserving, too many voters don't really pay attention and pretty much just look at the BC ( which is why Storm the Court is almost a certain winner...not that there are a boatload of super deserving candidates ). However, I could vote for Bast ( I don't actually have a vote ). She has the resume and arguably ran the best race in the BC Juvenile Fillies. While it is fairly a result oriented award, her record is good enough to take her overall BC performance into account.

From a personal standpoint, I actually want British Idiom to win....but from a voter's standpoint I would find it a reasonable dilemma.
I get all of that, my biggest gripe is with the Breeder’s Cup in general. I’ve seen it evolve from a handful of meaningful races, staged on one day, to a way to cash in with a specialist. The training method of using it as a goal and working backwards is particularly uninteresting from a fan’s standpoint. In 2015, I would have went all in for Tonalist for Champion Older Male. The Cigar Mile should have been an epic showdown. Tonalist, Honor Code, Liam’s Map and even American Pharoah could and probably should have been in there but only Tonalist, who was without a stud deal at that time, went. In 2013, the Clark should have been the race to decide Horse of the Year. Will Take Charge and Game on Dude ran very nice races while Wise Dan—a previous winner of the race—and Mucho Macho Man sat out. The latter two, presumably because their goals had been already met. Again, for principle, I would have voted for Will Take Charge.
Slewfan2
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Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:44 pm

thinair wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:00 pm
British Idiom will win, and while I'm not saying she's undeserving, too many voters don't really pay attention and pretty much just look at the BC ( which is why Storm the Court is almost a certain winner...not that there are a boatload of super deserving candidates ). However, I could vote for Bast ( I don't actually have a vote ). She has the resume and arguably ran the best race in the BC Juvenile Fillies. While it is fairly a result oriented award, her record is good enough to take her overall BC performance into account.

From a personal standpoint, I actually want British Idiom to win....but from a voter's standpoint I would find it a reasonable dilemma.
Except....who else would you vote for for champion juvenile? I personally couldn't vote for Structor as all his wins have come on grass. I don't think Storm the Court is any great shakes, and I'm not sure who was behind him ultimately in the BC, but it's kind of like a team winning their division by virtue of being the best of a bad lot - sometimes you get lucky.

But....I get your point, and I think it would be a harder decision of British Idiom hadn't beaten Bast......
thinair
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Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:31 pm

Curtis wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:30 pm
thinair wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:00 pm
British Idiom will win, and while I'm not saying she's undeserving, too many voters don't really pay attention and pretty much just look at the BC ( which is why Storm the Court is almost a certain winner...not that there are a boatload of super deserving candidates ). However, I could vote for Bast ( I don't actually have a vote ). She has the resume and arguably ran the best race in the BC Juvenile Fillies. While it is fairly a result oriented award, her record is good enough to take her overall BC performance into account.

From a personal standpoint, I actually want British Idiom to win....but from a voter's standpoint I would find it a reasonable dilemma.
I get all of that, my biggest gripe is with the Breeder’s Cup in general. I’ve seen it evolve from a handful of meaningful races, staged on one day, to a way to cash in with a specialist. The training method of using it as a goal and working backwards is particularly uninteresting from a fan’s standpoint. In 2015, I would have went all in for Tonalist for Champion Older Male. The Cigar Mile should have been an epic showdown. Tonalist, Honor Code, Liam’s Map and even American Pharoah could and probably should have been in there but only Tonalist, who was without a stud deal at that time, went. In 2013, the Clark should have been the race to decide Horse of the Year. Will Take Charge and Game on Dude ran very nice races while Wise Dan—a previous winner of the race—and Mucho Macho Man sat out. The latter two, presumably because their goals had been already met. Again, for principle, I would have voted for Will Take Charge.
I will always regret that Liam's Map ( and Beholder ) didn't run in that Classic, and as brilliantly as American Pharoah ran, I will always view the race with a bit of a jaundiced eye ( different racetrack....truly competitive race...and who knows what might have happened ). You know I agree with you that the BC has become seemingly WAY too important in too many peoples' eyes. It sure seems like horses have to do much less than they once did to earn significant accolades. I don't mean this to piss people off, but that was one of the main reasons I dramatically preferred Rachel Alexandra to Zenyatta in 2009. Focusing on Rachel not running in the BC ( on synthetic no less ), while ignoring one of history's most unprecedented impressive campaigns, was/is ignorance of the highest order. The year, before-after-whenever, matters, never just one day.
thinair
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Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:37 pm

Slewfan2 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:44 pm
thinair wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:00 pm
British Idiom will win, and while I'm not saying she's undeserving, too many voters don't really pay attention and pretty much just look at the BC ( which is why Storm the Court is almost a certain winner...not that there are a boatload of super deserving candidates ). However, I could vote for Bast ( I don't actually have a vote ). She has the resume and arguably ran the best race in the BC Juvenile Fillies. While it is fairly a result oriented award, her record is good enough to take her overall BC performance into account.

From a personal standpoint, I actually want British Idiom to win....but from a voter's standpoint I would find it a reasonable dilemma.
Except....who else would you vote for for champion juvenile? I personally couldn't vote for Structor as all his wins have come on grass. I don't think Storm the Court is any great shakes, and I'm not sure who was behind him ultimately in the BC, but it's kind of like a team winning their division by virtue of being the best of a bad lot - sometimes you get lucky.

But....I get your point, and I think it would be a harder decision of British Idiom hadn't beaten Bast......
I don't know. Structor may be less flawed than Storm the Court....as bad a choice as he is. Independence Hall ran the single best race of any juvenile, but you can't vote for him off one Grade 3 win. Had he run in, and won impressively, the Remsen, I could have considered it, as ridiculous as that may seem. Tiz the Law losing the KY Jockey Club kind of eliminated him. Tough call.
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DawnStorm
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Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:28 pm

the BC has become seemingly WAY too important in too many peoples' eyes.
[/quote]

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Slewfan2
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Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:48 pm

thinair wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:37 pm
Slewfan2 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:44 pm
thinair wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:00 pm
British Idiom will win, and while I'm not saying she's undeserving, too many voters don't really pay attention and pretty much just look at the BC ( which is why Storm the Court is almost a certain winner...not that there are a boatload of super deserving candidates ). However, I could vote for Bast ( I don't actually have a vote ). She has the resume and arguably ran the best race in the BC Juvenile Fillies. While it is fairly a result oriented award, her record is good enough to take her overall BC performance into account.

From a personal standpoint, I actually want British Idiom to win....but from a voter's standpoint I would find it a reasonable dilemma.
Except....who else would you vote for for champion juvenile? I personally couldn't vote for Structor as all his wins have come on grass. I don't think Storm the Court is any great shakes, and I'm not sure who was behind him ultimately in the BC, but it's kind of like a team winning their division by virtue of being the best of a bad lot - sometimes you get lucky.

But....I get your point, and I think it would be a harder decision of British Idiom hadn't beaten Bast......
I don't know. Structor may be less flawed than Storm the Court....as bad a choice as he is. Independence Hall ran the single best race of any juvenile, but you can't vote for him off one Grade 3 win. Had he run in, and won impressively, the Remsen, I could have considered it, as ridiculous as that may seem. Tiz the Law losing the KY Jockey Club kind of eliminated him. Tough call.
I agree with everything you said. It's too bad Tiz the Law lost the KY Jockey Club as I do think you could have made a serious argument for him. I think Storm the Court will get it, but I think there are several colts out there aside from the ones we've discussed who are more talented than he is....he picked a good year to win the Juvy.
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Mylute
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Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:16 pm

Mylute wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:13 pm
I bet the picture of Maximum Security being led away by the groom at Churchill wins the photography Eclipse.
Nope the picture of War of Will almost falling because of Max going around the turn won.
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Curtis
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Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:20 pm

Mylute wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:16 pm
Mylute wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:13 pm
I bet the picture of Maximum Security being led away by the groom at Churchill wins the photography Eclipse.
Nope the picture of War of Will almost falling because of Max going around the turn won.
Has the result been posted or you arguing with yourself?
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mariasmon
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Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:29 pm

Curtis wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:20 pm
Mylute wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:16 pm
Mylute wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:13 pm
I bet the picture of Maximum Security being led away by the groom at Churchill wins the photography Eclipse.
Nope the picture of War of Will almost falling because of Max going around the turn won.
Has the result been posted or you arguing with yourself?
https://www.ntra.com/2019-media-eclipse ... announced/
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Mylute
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Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:41 pm

So Structor is a poor choice because he ran on....turf?

Ok.
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carole
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Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:49 pm

Mylute wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:41 pm
So Structor is a poor choice because he ran on....turf?

Ok.
I just think the voters will go with Storm the Court because he won the juvenile dirt championship race and that counts for more I guess. There certainly will be votes for Structor though and he'll more than deserve them, and if he ends up winning the Eclipse then he definitely deserves that too!
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Mylute
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Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:26 pm

So I just saw a campaign ad on Bloodhorse for Sistercharlie for the Eclipse Award.

Is this common?
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Curtis
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Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:04 pm

Mylute wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:26 pm
So I just saw a campaign ad on Bloodhorse for Sistercharlie for the Eclipse Award.

Is this common?
It’s a fairly recent phenomenon. It may not have been invented by but it has been honed towards perfection by Team Runhappy.
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Mylute
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Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:07 pm

Curtis wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:04 pm
Mylute wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:26 pm
So I just saw a campaign ad on Bloodhorse for Sistercharlie for the Eclipse Award.

Is this common?
It’s a fairly recent phenomenon. It may not have been invented by but it has been honed towards perfection by Team Runhappy.
I remember Spendthrift throwing shade at Good Magic and putting "Bolt d'Oro champ juvenile" ads all over twitter but this has been the first time I've seen what is presumably a paid ad on a publication website
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BaroqueAgain1
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Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:26 pm

Perhaps racing connections are taking a page out of the typical Oscar Awards campaigns that you see for movies?
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Mylute
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Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:52 pm

McGuaghey throws shade at Maximum Security.
https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/ ... e_time_123

Quick question- who exactly votes for the Eclipse and how do you get a vote? Cause if "those guys in West Texas or something" really don't know who they're talking about (I think I know what he means by that, don't actually follow racing jut know names), why do they get to vote?
"I'm here, free as the wind, fountain of extraordinary knowledge, splendidly corrupt, and eager to be of profitable service."
~ Peter Lorre 1904 - 1̶9̶6̶4̶ ∞
stark
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Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:05 pm

Mylute wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:52 pm
Quick question- who exactly votes for the Eclipse and how do you get a vote?
An article plus 47 comments that address your concerns, enjoy.
https://www.horseracingnation.com/blogs ... Awards_123
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
firehorse
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Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:37 am

Mylute wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:52 pm
McGuaghey throws shade at Maximum Security.
https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/ ... e_time_123

Quick question- who exactly votes for the Eclipse and how do you get a vote? Cause if "those guys in West Texas or something" really don't know who they're talking about (I think I know what he means by that, don't actually follow racing jut know names), why do they get to vote?
Well I wasn't expecting that from McGaughey, but I wouldn't have expected Bill Mott to tell his jockey to claim a foul in the Derby either :|
carole
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Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:55 pm

firehorse wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:37 am
Mylute wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:52 pm
McGuaghey throws shade at Maximum Security.
https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/ ... e_time_123

Quick question- who exactly votes for the Eclipse and how do you get a vote? Cause if "those guys in West Texas or something" really don't know who they're talking about (I think I know what he means by that, don't actually follow racing jut know names), why do they get to vote?
Well I wasn't expecting that from McGaughey, but I wouldn't have expected Bill Mott to tell his jockey to claim a foul in the Derby either :|
Not very classy from McGaughey. As for Mott, I don't think you can blame him for claiming foul, any trainer would have done that really. There's a difference between claiming foul in a race with obvious interference where the winner (which your horse was runner up to) was the one to cause it, and shunning a horse and it's connections because you have a horse up against it for an award. McGaughey could have just not commented on it at all or only talked about his horse, in a way talking smack about his opposition makes it seem like his horse doesn't really deserve it so he has to bring the competition down. But that's just my opinion and frankly I'm not a voter or at all a part of the industry other than being a fan so perhaps this is perfectly normal.

And by the way firehorse, just want to clarify that I'm in no way coming at you, just wanted to share my opinion and I definitely agree with your post.
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