Stallions in Japan

User avatar
Northport
Posts: 2430
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:13 pm
Location: probably near the food

Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:50 pm

Private Thoughts wrote:Summer Bird looked great here in the United States too. And happy as well.

Sometimes it seems like the horses magically get much better care and become so much happier once they are shipped to Japan. Seriously? That is just silly.

Like we mistreat our animals here? Really? A good looking horse is a good looking horse.

Union Rags is an example. He is gorgeous and happy looking at Lane's End. Would he look better in Japan? :?
Who said that they are mistreated in the US? I think people say that horses look happy in Japan because many ignorant people feel that there is no place except America that can provide the best care for horses, and that shipping to Japan is a death sentence.

Relax.
weeeeeeeee
User avatar
Summer Bird
Posts: 733
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:35 pm
Location: NY

Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:01 pm

Private Thoughts wrote:Summer Bird looked great here in the United States too. And happy as well.

Sometimes it seems like the horses magically get much better care and become so much happier once they are shipped to Japan. Seriously? That is just silly.

Like we mistreat our animals here? Really? A good looking horse is a good looking horse.

Union Rags is an example. He is gorgeous and happy looking at Lane's End. Would he look better in Japan? :?
Wow you're taking this a little too far here. All I said was he looked great and I never said that he never looked good when he lived in the U.S.. I'm just happy to finally get a pic of him and see that he's happy and looks great. He's always been a good looking horse.
Ziggypop
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:45 pm

Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:02 pm

Speaking of Japan, does anyone know how all the farms did in the big typhoon that just hit Japan?
Lava Man Fan
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:54 am

Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:30 pm

Hard Spun moving from Jonabell to Darley's Japan complex for 2014. Not sure if he's going for good or will be there for a year like Street Sense.
Happy Endings
Posts: 1684
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:12 pm

Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:35 pm

Lava Man Fan wrote:Hard Spun moving from Jonabell to Darley's Japan complex for 2014. Not sure if he's going for good or will be there for a year like Street Sense.
From the wording of their press release it sounds like the same deal as with Street Sense. I will be very upset if he doesn't come back. This could work to his advantage in building him as a truly international sire.
I found my sneakers!
User avatar
Private Thoughts
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:18 pm
Location: Kentucky

Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:44 pm

Actually I think what Darley is doing is really very interesting, send top stallions to another country for a year or two and then bring them home. That way others have access to hard to get bloodlines and increases appeal for his offspring. Now if only Japan would send some of their top stallions to the US the same way for a year or two so Americans could have a crack at some of their excellent bloodlines. I think this would provide breeders with a choice as well as keep hard feelings at bay when champions are sent away forever.

That also allows fresh blood into the breeding programs of the countries involved.
uma_nosuke
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:50 am

Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:41 am

Private Thoughts wrote: Now if only Japan would send some of their top stallions to the US the same way for a year or two so Americans could have a crack at some of their excellent bloodlines. I think this would provide breeders with a choice as well as keep hard feelings at bay when champions are sent away forever.

Unlikely to happen, IMO.

Because that would be like 'sending salt to your enemy' in an old Japanese saying, which means helping your rivals out of their difficulties, rather than taking advantage of their sufferings. Old samurais used to send salt to their sworn foes, and yet the days of samurai has long gone...


I think Shadai thinks of top stallions by Sunday Silence as their special salt too valuable to let them available to others. So I was a bit surprised when Hat Trick was sent to the US.


Excerpts from a three-man talkーTeruya Yoshida (Shadai Farm), Katsumi Yoshida (Northern Farm), and Koji Maeda (North Hills Management)ー from a JPN racing magazine published this October.



___________________________(from here)________________________

Teruya Yoshida:'I heard that the owner of Treve (Sheikh Joann Al Thani) asked you if he could buy Kizuna. He wanted the colt to be entered in the Arc in his silks, right?'

Koji Maeda:' Honoured to have inquiries three times. For the first and second time, we had been shown concrete amounts for the colt. For the third time, just a blank check with $$$ for me to write in. :shock: It was such a honour, but I politely declined. Also, the Godolphin wanted to have a look at him about 10 days before the Arc, and the Three Chimneys contacted us to show their interest in him....But, well, I want him to stand at Shadai. No option to let him stand abroad, never ever.'

TY:'That's what you told me before, but, I'm ...concerned with your change of mind.' :lol:

--------------


TY:'Without Sunday Silence in Japan, we would have been in awful situations. Even discussing the Arc as we are now doing here would have been out of question. Such a huge impact a stallion could have...

Katsumi Yoshida (Northern Farm):'Stallion sons by SS are excellent. Not only that, but also are very good as broodmare sires.'

TY:'Not only in Japan, either; Divine Light's progeny as well as Hat Trick's won G1s abroad.'

KY:'They have potential to rewrite the map of the distribution of power in the racing world because every SS stallion is difficult to fail. We just don't know where the next big one with the sire line will come from.'
User avatar
Private Thoughts
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:18 pm
Location: Kentucky

Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:45 am

So with their thoughts being that, then should they not be considered as racist, nationalist, etc? Aren't they being selfish for keeping all those animals on such a small island and with such a small racing audience. And gosh, where are they going to put all the foals produced every year? (Sarcasm)

Americans like me and others on this board who feel we need to keep our best here in the States are maligned and talked about like we are the worst folks in the world and told we think that every horse going abroad is going to end up like Exceller or Ferdinand.

But that is not the problem that I have at least, but I think, like they do, that we need to keep our champions and excellent performers here, to help produce better animals here. When we send off our top stock, especially the mares, we are shooting ourselves in the foot. We are depleting our gene pool and reducing the quality of future generations.

I really could care less about watching silly youtube videos of this horse or that. I don't even visit the farms anymore. I enjoy the sport and want to see the quality of our animals be top notch. But I am accused of being selfish or angry because I can't visit a farm and take pictures, etc.

I happen to agree with Shadai, keep your best horses home. That is what I say all the time, but somehow that is bad. So I guess the Yoshida brothers are bad guys as well for feeling the same way. American greed is what sends our horses abroad. In the end it will also cause it's demise.

Like my comment above about Summer Bird. Not disparaging to the Japanese, just that while he is pretty in Japan, he was pretty in the US as well. He was also a champion and should have stayed here to produce US champions. Now he will be doing that in another country. Americas greed is Japans gain.
arkle
Posts: 685
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:22 am

Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:47 pm

Private Thoughts wrote:So with their thoughts being that, then should they not be considered as racist, nationalist, etc? Aren't they being selfish for keeping all those animals on such a small island and with such a small racing audience. And gosh, where are they going to put all the foals produced every year? (Sarcasm)

Americans like me and others on this board who feel we need to keep our best here in the States are maligned and talked about like we are the worst folks in the world and told we think that every horse going abroad is going to end up like Exceller or Ferdinand.

But that is not the problem that I have at least, but I think, like they do, that we need to keep our champions and excellent performers here, to help produce better animals here. When we send off our top stock, especially the mares, we are shooting ourselves in the foot. We are depleting our gene pool and reducing the quality of future generations.

I really could care less about watching silly youtube videos of this horse or that. I don't even visit the farms anymore. I enjoy the sport and want to see the quality of our animals be top notch. But I am accused of being selfish or angry because I can't visit a farm and take pictures, etc.

I happen to agree with Shadai, keep your best horses home. That is what I say all the time, but somehow that is bad. So I guess the Yoshida brothers are bad guys as well for feeling the same way. American greed is what sends our horses abroad. In the end it will also cause it's demise.

Like my comment above about Summer Bird. Not disparaging to the Japanese, just that while he is pretty in Japan, he was pretty in the US as well. He was also a champion and should have stayed here to produce US champions. Now he will be doing that in another country. Americas greed is Japans gain.
I guess what I find ironic about people whining about US stallions being sold overseas is two fold....

i) One of the bedrocks of America, and American culture, is the Free Market.... somebody coughs up the cash, they get the goods. It is what America is built on. These horses go to the highest bidder. It seems perfectly American to me.

ii) The best US bloodlines are built on the back of top US stallion masters like the Hancocks etc, going to Europe from the 20's through the 50's and writing blank checks for the best Euro stallions and race horses... Nasrullah, Sir Gallahad, Blenheim, Mahmoud, Ribot, Khaled, Royal Charger etc etc... the list is endless. So it comes across as a bit ironic to be complaining when it happens in the other direction.
User avatar
Private Thoughts
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:18 pm
Location: Kentucky

Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:37 pm

Yes the free market is part of American culture, but it doesn't mean people don't let greed overrun good sense. You sell you top of the line stock, retain the lower end stock, you will not be breeding champion caliber animals very long. Sure you may get the occasional fluke here and there but in general, breed the best to the best and hope for the best. Not breed second best to the second best and hope for the best.

Yes, American racing was built on purchasing top class lines from Europe but alot of those animals were sent here to avoid the WWI and WWII issues. WWI they were taking almost any horse they could lay hands on to fill the military needs. I believe 8 million perished in that war so of course top breeders would rather see their bloodlines survive and not become cannon fodder. WWII horses were not used so much but bombs are dropping all over Europe and your world around you is being destroyed and crumbling I think a race horse is a luxury most could do without. Money to escape, put food on the table, etc. was a bit more important.

So this situation does not apply to today. Ribot was not supposed to be here forever. He was here on a lease and because he was such a nut job they couldn't find anybody to insure him so he could ship home.
uma_nosuke
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:50 am

Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:39 am

Private Thoughts wrote:So with their thoughts being that, then should they not be considered as racist, nationalist, etc? Aren't they being selfish for keeping all those animals on such a small island and with such a small racing audience. And gosh, where are they going to put all the foals produced every year? (Sarcasm)

They are, first of all, a commercial breeder. That is exactly the point that stipulates Shadai's 'modus operandi.' Or more precisely, they cannot afford to be nationalistic: they, first and foremost, have to sell their foals and yearling to any customer, home or abroad. That is the most important thing for any commercial breeder.

For the purpose, they have to prove excellence of their horses by winning races at all levels from maidens to G1s, which is not always that easy. It is this sense of crisis that I acknowledge every time I read what their representatives speak to the racing media, as opposed to complacency of maintaining the status quo of the top breeder in Japan.

Actually they've lived through a hell of surviving from one day to the next in the days of their father, and the difficulty of selling horses constantly to customers sinks deep in their mind, which is their driving force, I suppose.


Based on this commercial viewpoint, if they regard sending salt to someone abroad as profitable in the long run, they will just do that.

If selling the latest US stealth jet fighters to Japans serves the interests of the US national security best, America would do that. In reality, they keep their best technology at bay, and we accept their second bests, just as Sunday Silence was sold to us. Simple as that. No egotism or hostility, just a business sense that I can't blame.


Having said that, if they'll try to disguise quality at their Select Sale, their customers will look the other way. So there is always a risk of losing some of their bests to their competitors, which is the case with any sale.

For example, Admire Moon, bred at Northern Farm, was knocked down to a Japanese customer in the Select Sale 2003, and the colt won 7 G1s (two at Hong Kong, one at Dubai), and in his retirement the buyer allowed End Sweep's son out of a Sunday Silence mare to stand at Darley, which seemed to be a huge loss to Shadai back then. It is said that there was a similar risk with Deep Impact for Shadai.

In a similar context, they also have to import good mares for their Sunday Silence stallions; most of them are already SS's daughters, unavailable to his sons, while they are well aware of the risk of over-dominance of SS blood. So they keep importing new stallions mainly from Europe (turf sires) as a counterbalance:



Imported Stallions at Shadai since 2009
2009
Chichicastenango (died in 2012)

2011
Harbinger

2012
Workforce

2013
Turtle Bowl

2014
Novellist



(*) What I wrote here is just my personal opinion, not Shadai's, of course.
uma_nosuke
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:50 am

Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:11 am

Ms Frances J. Karon's trip to Northern Farm in Japan:
http://runroughshod.blogspot.jp/2013/11 ... g-his.html
User avatar
mariasmon
Posts: 4595
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:38 am

Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:10 am

Looks like Orfevre is already having fun with his retirement.

Image
Lakeway
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:00 pm

Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:35 am

mariasmon wrote:Looks like Orfevre is already having fun with his retirement.

Image
Love it - thanks for posting. Just wondering where you found it?
User avatar
mariasmon
Posts: 4595
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:38 am

Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:39 am

It was on Twitter, but can't find a credit. Still looking...
tachyon
Posts: 4059
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:52 pm

Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:22 am

mariasmon wrote:It was on Twitter, but can't find a credit. Still looking...
:D
Originally, this pick of Orfevre has been credited to race.sanspo.com on Jan 1st.
(photo taken by Kenji Suzuki)

http://race.sanspo.com/keiba/news/20140 ... 02-n1.html
http://race.sanspo.com/keiba/news/20140 ... 02-p1.html

And that article said, ''we can't wait for his babies who might win the Arc to fulfill his dream''. :)
Last edited by tachyon on Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
mariasmon
Posts: 4595
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:38 am

Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:28 am

tachyon wrote:
mariasmon wrote:It was on Twitter, but can't find a credit. Still looking...
:D
Originally, this pick of Orfevre has been credited to race.sanspo.com on Jan 1st.
(photo taken by Kenji Suzuki)

http://race.sanspo.com/keiba/news/20140 ... 02-n1.html
http://race.sanspo.com/keiba/news/20140 ... 02-p1.html

And that article said, ''we can't wait for his babies who might win the Arc to fulfil his dream''. :)
Thank you! The fact that I don't read Japanese probably contributed to my inability to find the credit.
tachyon
Posts: 4059
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:52 pm

Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:37 am

mariasmon wrote:
tachyon wrote:
mariasmon wrote:It was on Twitter, but can't find a credit. Still looking...
:D
Originally, this pick of Orfevre has been credited to race.sanspo.com on Jan 1st.
(photo taken by Kenji Suzuki)

http://race.sanspo.com/keiba/news/20140 ... 02-n1.html
http://race.sanspo.com/keiba/news/20140 ... 02-p1.html

And that article said, ''we can't wait for his babies who might win the Arc to fulfil his dream''. :)
Thank you! The fact that I don't read Japanese probably contributed to my inability to find the credit.
You are welcome, MM.
And thank you very much for posting that photo. :D
It has taken me about 15 minutes to find out that additional info. :lol:
User avatar
mariasmon
Posts: 4595
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:38 am

Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:41 am

tachyon wrote: You are welcome, MM.
And thank you very much for posting that photo. :D
It has taken me about 15 minutes to find out that additional info. :lol:
The effort is appreciated. It's good to credit the photographer if possible ;)
Lakeway
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:00 pm

Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:18 am

Thanks MM and Tachyon - really appreciate the time you both took to find the pic !!!!! Just wanted to be able to pass it on to some friends...
Post Reply