California Chrome to Japan

roxyllsk
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:15 pm

OMG it's nuts on FB …. how he should have been retired from breeding and allowed to 'live out his life' … Yea okay, his new job is having a few girlfriends a day. I find it hard to believe he objects to that lol.
BaroqueAgain1
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:22 pm

From Bloodhorse:
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... e-to-japan

This part made me wonder if the push to sell came more from Perry & Martin than from the Taylors.
"As part of the agreement, the California Chrome Syndicate has the first right of refusal the if stallion is ever sold. Upon retirement from breeding, he can live out the remainder of his life at Taylor Made. Owners Perry and Denise Martin will continue to participate in California Chrome's breeding career in Japan.
"We were approached by the buyer between the September and the November sale, and being that California Chrome is owned by a 50-share syndicate, we polled the syndicate and they decided to do it," said Duncan Taylor, president and CEO of Taylor Made."

:?
JohannaSwe
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:55 pm

I am not surprised he is going to Japan. He feels like a horse the Japanese likes, and I think it will be better for him and he will get more chances. Has any of his yearlings sold for a lot of money?

If you read some of the comments it sounds like he will be eaten the second he steps on Japanese soil lol
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Delamont
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:46 pm

He will be treated like royalty.
Horsebagger
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:47 pm

Mylute wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:07 am
This is really strange because last night over supper I was thinking to myself all the ways a broke college kid like me could make it up to Kentucky to see him specifically and some others.
Which makes him worth how much in your mind, exactly?
Mylute wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:07 am
I hope he's the 2020 leading freshman sire.
I'd bet against it, but if he is, Taylor Made likely has the ability to buy him back.

My question (generally, not to you specifically) is 'who's surprised'? This shouldn't be a shock to anybody, as he was never an attractive commercial stallion prospect upon his retirement

The Taylor's are no dummies, and their appraisal is to sell, instead of hoping to get close to a full book at anything approaching his 2019 stud fee.
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Treve
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:18 pm

A Cal-bred with a Triple Crown near miss going to Japan... now where have I seen that before? 8-)
Perhaps lightning can strike twice. Really wishing him the best in Japan!

Unfortunately it seems he wasn't doing as well at the sales as they had hoped at least relative to his stud fee. His highest selling yearling was 325 000$, also the only one to break the 300k mark. Not including this one, he only had 5 yearlings hit 200k or higher. He had 9 sell in the 100-199k range. So he had in total 15 yearlings sold for six figures.

2017 Stud Fee: $40,000
2018 Foals: 105
77 offered, 42 sold, $3,759,000 gross, $89,500 average, $65,000 median
Colts: 25 sold, $74,000 avg
Fillies: 17 sold, $112,294 avg

What probably didn't also help is Taylor Made offered around 40 of those yearlings all told, half of those were RNAs (including a filly out of a blacktype mare who RNA'd once at 57k and again a second time at 37k). TM sold 8 of the six figure yearlings which can't be encouraging for outside breeders, because that means in total only 9 outside breeders made a verifiable profit on the stud fee.

(Which doesn't factor in the estimated 20k spent on a foal and dam's care over the course of the mare's pregnancy, then the first year and a half of life of the yearling and sales prep). We are looking at +/- 60k of investment in the yearling by the time it is in the sales ring. He only had 12 yearlings in the 65-99k range. And 65k is his median.

In total then he had 27 yearlings that turned a profit. And that's not substracting those bred by TM (and therefore, no stud fee). I am sure the fact that his siblings and half siblings have struggled thus far also likely didn't help him and further reinforced the notion of a fluke horse who outran his immediate parentage rather than a hidden treasure of genetic potential.

Compare with Frosted for example who also entered stud in 2017
2017 Stud Fee: $50,000
2018 Foals: 188
98 offered, 70 sold, $15,545,500 gross, $222,079 average, $160,000 median
Colts: 36 sold, $193,194 avg
Fillies: 34 sold, $252,662 avg
(for comparison's sake Frosted had 68 offerings sell for six figures, which is more than all Chrome foals sold combined, his high was 850k and he had 6 sell for 500k or higher. Only 6 offerings sold for less than 75k. 15 sold for 300k or higher against Chrome's lone one.)

Of course his babies haven't hit the track yet but chances are that since Taylor Made had his stud fee at 30k for this coming year, they didn't completely think he'd be a bust but they must have gotten a really good offer when the syndicate was approached, and if his babies bomb he is currently worth as much as he ever will be. It's the smart business decision. If a horse with his record could not attract enough quality mares and mid to high tier buyers, then it just confirms what most people had said about him prior to retirement (and the fact the syndicate even struggled to get offers and find someone willing to stand him before TM bought into him sort of reflects that). Like HB said most people did not expect him to be commercially viable.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
TapitsGal
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:48 pm

Why I do NOT want chrome coming back to Kentucky when he's pensioned from breeding..

horses are creatures of habit...they like routine, similarities and dont like change. If you loved chrome as you claim to...by the time he is retired from breeding he will be a senior horse. He will have lived in the same country, same barn, same farm, same language, same feed and caregivers for twenty plus years...he will have strong bonds with them and his handlers will dearly love him. It is VERY stressful on any horse especially a horse in it's twenties to endure a long travel and many hours of transatlantic flight plus quarantine...there have been many cases of elderly horses retiring back to Kentucky from breeding overseas and then dying days, weeks, or months later because the stress of travel and quarantine was too much...that's why as much as I love Chrome..I hope he never comes back

Oh and I've turned off the bring chrome home Facebook page..250 comments on the article..I gave up reading after the first ten comments bashed Taylor Made, called them greedy, selfish, said Chrome belongs here, oh and 99.5% of the people believe chrome is destined for a dinner plate...I've encouraged people to Google forty niner, azeri, mind your biscuits, creator, northern horse park and others
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Mylute
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:32 pm

Money talks obviously but I find it a bit strange that they didn't wait another year to see what his kids do. We have like, what, 6 months starting in December until the juvenile races start? Maybe 8 before the juveniles are in full swing?
"I'm here, free as the wind, fountain of extraordinary knowledge, splendidly corrupt, and eager to be of profitable service."
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Ridan_Remembered
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:38 pm

Let me first say that I have great respect for the Japanese and their culture. I worked most of my career for Nissan and then Toyota at their national headquarters in the Los Angeles area before each company moved their HQ to other states. Let me also say that I fully understand the business aspects of the decision to sell a stallion, even one like Chrome, overseas. If Chrome had to go overseas, I'm glad it is to Japan.

What I don't understand is the deeply uncharitable, even snobbish attitude that some here have for Chrome's fans. Yes, many of them are not knowledgeable about this industry. Yes, many overreact to news such as this. But so what! They love the horse. Love him. Many have arranged vacations around being able to visit him. Many have followed his career all the way from the beginning up to the present, and have become fans of other horses because of their initial attraction to Chrome. Many bought into that "People's Horse" thing just to feel like they had a small piece of Chrome. They visited TM in droves. Some even had their weddings there.

Racing in the U.S. desperately needs people to engage with the sport/industry at all levels. It needs fans. It needs people to fall in love with the horses. It needs people to dream about maybe buying into a horse. It needs people to fill the stands to see their favorites run. This beautiful, shiny stallion with a boatload of personality is worth more to this industry than dry sales statistics. He has been a magnificent ambassador for the sport wherever he has gone. GOOD WILL MATTERS! His move overseas is a great loss to the industry in ways that have nothing to do with dollars. Yes, I know...I do know. Horses are expensive and usually need to earn their keep. I get it. But what does it hurt any of you to be a little more kind, a little more understanding for those who don't know, and who see this as a great wrong done to someone they love?
Last edited by Ridan_Remembered on Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Northport
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:01 pm

I'd be more hopeful about him being a big hit in Japan if Shadai was buying him, not Arrow Stud. I am sure he will get quality mares, but the best mares and the stallions with the best chances are own by Shadai/Northern Farm/Oiwake Farm. I foresee the usual American non-Shadai career for Chrome. 2020 - 200+ mares, 2021 - 150+ mares, 2022 - 50 mares, 2023 - 20 mares, etc. unless he has a superstar in his first crop.

Regardless, I know he will be treated like a king there, and like someone else mentioned, it's unfair to bring him back once he is pensioned. If you look at the facilities they have in Japan vs. the ones at Old Friends, and then you had War Emblem needing to be gelded... it's unfair to move the horse. But that's a problem for a couple decades from now.
weeeeeeeee
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Mylute
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:08 pm

Northport wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:01 pm
I'd be more hopeful about him being a big hit in Japan if Shadai was buying him, not Arrow Stud. I am sure he will get quality mares, but the best mares and the stallions with the best chances are own by Shadai/Northern Farm/Oiwake Farm. I foresee the usual American non-Shadai career for Chrome. 2020 - 200+ mares, 2021 - 150+ mares, 2022 - 50 mares, 2023 - 20 mares, etc. unless he has a superstar in his first crop.

Regardless, I know he will be treated like a king there, and like someone else mentioned, it's unfair to bring him back once he is pensioned. If you look at the facilities they have in Japan vs. the ones at Old Friends, and then you had War Emblem needing to be gelded... it's unfair to move the horse. But that's a problem for a couple decades from now.
I have very little knowledge about the Japanese breeding landscape. While I know that Shadai is entirely dominant, will breeders automatically not be interested in a superstar and potential breeding goldmine like Chrome just because he is not at Shadai?
"I'm here, free as the wind, fountain of extraordinary knowledge, splendidly corrupt, and eager to be of profitable service."
~ Peter Lorre 1904 - 1̶9̶6̶4̶ ∞
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Ridan_Remembered
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:16 pm

I would not normally do a second post, but wanted to share this from the Taylor Made Stallions Facebook page:

"California Chrome is the best horse we have ever owned, and he will now have the opportunity to have offspring in three countries. California Chrome is a very special horse and means a lot to not only the team members of Taylor Made but to the thousands of fans he has across the country" -President and CEO, Duncan Taylor

https://www.facebook.com/taylormadeadvantage/

As I mentioned above, this is a huge loss in ways the pathetic U.S. industry simply does not understand.
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Northport
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:24 pm

Mylute wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:08 pm
Northport wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:01 pm
I'd be more hopeful about him being a big hit in Japan if Shadai was buying him, not Arrow Stud. I am sure he will get quality mares, but the best mares and the stallions with the best chances are own by Shadai/Northern Farm/Oiwake Farm. I foresee the usual American non-Shadai career for Chrome. 2020 - 200+ mares, 2021 - 150+ mares, 2022 - 50 mares, 2023 - 20 mares, etc. unless he has a superstar in his first crop.

Regardless, I know he will be treated like a king there, and like someone else mentioned, it's unfair to bring him back once he is pensioned. If you look at the facilities they have in Japan vs. the ones at Old Friends, and then you had War Emblem needing to be gelded... it's unfair to move the horse. But that's a problem for a couple decades from now.
I have very little knowledge about the Japanese breeding landscape. While I know that Shadai is entirely dominant, will breeders automatically not be interested in a superstar and potential breeding goldmine like Chrome just because he is not at Shadai?
I'm sure the breeders will be interested in Chrome, but the Yoshidas owns at least 75% of the top broodmares (in terms of G1 winners and G1 producers) in Japan. It's not a matter of people not being interested because the horse isn't at Shadai, it's a matter of Shadai not being interested because the horse isn't at Shadai.
weeeeeeeee
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Private Thoughts
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:25 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:38 pm
Let me first say that I have great respect for the Japanese and their culture. I worked most of my career for Nissan and then Toyota at their national headquarters in the Los Angeles area before each company moved their HQ to other states. Let me also say that I fully understand the business aspects of the decision to sell a stallion, even one like Chrome, overseas. If Chrome had to go overseas, I'm glad it is to Japan.

What I don't understand is the deeply uncharitable, even snobbish attitude that some here have for Chrome's fans. Yes, many of them are not knowledgeable about this industry. Yes, many overreact to news such as this. But so what! They love the horse. Love him. Many have arranged vacations around being able to visit him. Many have followed his career all the way from the beginning up to the present, and have become fans of other horses because of their initial attraction to Chrome. Many bought into that "People's Horse" thing just to feel like they had a small piece of Chrome. They visited TM in droves. Some even had their weddings there.

Racing in the U.S. desperately needs people to engage with the sport/industry at all levels. It needs fans. It needs people to fall in love with the horses. It needs people to dream about maybe buying into a horse. It needs people to fill the stands to see their favorites run. This beautiful, shiny stallion with a boatload of personality is worth more to this industry than dry sales statistics. He has been a magnificent ambassador for the sport wherever he has gone. GOOD WILL MATTERS! His move overseas is a great loss to the industry in ways that have nothing to do with dollars. Yes, I know...I do know. Horses are expensive and usually need to earn their keep. I get it. But what does it hurt any of you to be a little more kind, a little more understanding for those who don't know, and who see this as a great wrong done to someone they love?
THANK YOU!!!!!
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ThreeMustangs
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:30 pm

This:

@Nicole_Meiner:
Thoughts and prayers to whoever answers the phone at Taylor Made.
lurkey mclurker
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:52 pm

ThreeMustangs wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:30 pm
This:

@Nicole_Meiner:
Thoughts and prayers to whoever answers the phone at Taylor Made.
omg

I would :lol: but jeez that's all too true, isn't it.
FlyToTheStars
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:53 pm

ThreeMustangs wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:30 pm
This:

@Nicole_Meiner:
Thoughts and prayers to whoever answers the phone at Taylor Made.
Oh i agree. :(

There is a person on FB on a Chrome post. She mentioned she used to work at Calumet the day Alydar passed. She sounds defensive and that no one hurted him, and that the horse had done it himself. Even brought up that their stallions do get out of their stalls, kick at the other stallion stall doors and run down to the training barn etc. It sounded weird and if that person actually worked there at the time.

Just had to mention it here esp it was said at the Chrome FB post. I questioned her of how the heck the stallions get out from that heavy duty doors.
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Ridan_Remembered
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:37 pm

Private Thoughts wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:25 pm
Ridan_Remembered wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:38 pm
Let me first say that I have great respect for the Japanese and their culture. I worked most of my career for Nissan and then Toyota at their national headquarters in the Los Angeles area before each company moved their HQ to other states. Let me also say that I fully understand the business aspects of the decision to sell a stallion, even one like Chrome, overseas. If Chrome had to go overseas, I'm glad it is to Japan.

What I don't understand is the deeply uncharitable, even snobbish attitude that some here have for Chrome's fans. Yes, many of them are not knowledgeable about this industry. Yes, many overreact to news such as this. But so what! They love the horse. Love him. Many have arranged vacations around being able to visit him. Many have followed his career all the way from the beginning up to the present, and have become fans of other horses because of their initial attraction to Chrome. Many bought into that "People's Horse" thing just to feel like they had a small piece of Chrome. They visited TM in droves. Some even had their weddings there.

Racing in the U.S. desperately needs people to engage with the sport/industry at all levels. It needs fans. It needs people to fall in love with the horses. It needs people to dream about maybe buying into a horse. It needs people to fill the stands to see their favorites run. This beautiful, shiny stallion with a boatload of personality is worth more to this industry than dry sales statistics. He has been a magnificent ambassador for the sport wherever he has gone. GOOD WILL MATTERS! His move overseas is a great loss to the industry in ways that have nothing to do with dollars. Yes, I know...I do know. Horses are expensive and usually need to earn their keep. I get it. But what does it hurt any of you to be a little more kind, a little more understanding for those who don't know, and who see this as a great wrong done to someone they love?
THANK YOU!!!!!
You're very welcome. I know it's a lost cause here, but felt it had to be said anyway.
Ziggypop
Posts: 530
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:01 pm

Private Thoughts wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:25 pm
Ridan_Remembered wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:38 pm
Let me first say that I have great respect for the Japanese and their culture. I worked most of my career for Nissan and then Toyota at their national headquarters in the Los Angeles area before each company moved their HQ to other states. Let me also say that I fully understand the business aspects of the decision to sell a stallion, even one like Chrome, overseas. If Chrome had to go overseas, I'm glad it is to Japan.

What I don't understand is the deeply uncharitable, even snobbish attitude that some here have for Chrome's fans. Yes, many of them are not knowledgeable about this industry. Yes, many overreact to news such as this. But so what! They love the horse. Love him. Many have arranged vacations around being able to visit him. Many have followed his career all the way from the beginning up to the present, and have become fans of other horses because of their initial attraction to Chrome. Many bought into that "People's Horse" thing just to feel like they had a small piece of Chrome. They visited TM in droves. Some even had their weddings there.

Racing in the U.S. desperately needs people to engage with the sport/industry at all levels. It needs fans. It needs people to fall in love with the horses. It needs people to dream about maybe buying into a horse. It needs people to fill the stands to see their favorites run. This beautiful, shiny stallion with a boatload of personality is worth more to this industry than dry sales statistics. He has been a magnificent ambassador for the sport wherever he has gone. GOOD WILL MATTERS! His move overseas is a great loss to the industry in ways that have nothing to do with dollars. Yes, I know...I do know. Horses are expensive and usually need to earn their keep. I get it. But what does it hurt any of you to be a little more kind, a little more understanding for those who don't know, and who see this as a great wrong done to someone they love?
THANK YOU!!!!!
So glad you said that. I was thinking much the same all day.
KatieK101
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Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:49 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:38 pm
Let me first say that I have great respect for the Japanese and their culture. I worked most of my career for Nissan and then Toyota at their national headquarters in the Los Angeles area before each company moved their HQ to other states. Let me also say that I fully understand the business aspects of the decision to sell a stallion, even one like Chrome, overseas. If Chrome had to go overseas, I'm glad it is to Japan.

What I don't understand is the deeply uncharitable, even snobbish attitude that some here have for Chrome's fans. Yes, many of them are not knowledgeable about this industry. Yes, many overreact to news such as this. But so what! They love the horse. Love him. Many have arranged vacations around being able to visit him. Many have followed his career all the way from the beginning up to the present, and have become fans of other horses because of their initial attraction to Chrome. Many bought into that "People's Horse" thing just to feel like they had a small piece of Chrome. They visited TM in droves. Some even had their weddings there.

Racing in the U.S. desperately needs people to engage with the sport/industry at all levels. It needs fans. It needs people to fall in love with the horses. It needs people to dream about maybe buying into a horse. It needs people to fill the stands to see their favorites run. This beautiful, shiny stallion with a boatload of personality is worth more to this industry than dry sales statistics. He has been a magnificent ambassador for the sport wherever he has gone. GOOD WILL MATTERS! His move overseas is a great loss to the industry in ways that have nothing to do with dollars. Yes, I know...I do know. Horses are expensive and usually need to earn their keep. I get it. But what does it hurt any of you to be a little more kind, a little more understanding for those who don't know, and who see this as a great wrong done to someone they love?
Thank you for saying this. I don’t call myself a “Chromie” simply because of the stigma that comes along with the term, but California Chrome renewed my interest in horse racing when I was still a teenager.

He will be treated like royalty in Japan, and I’m sure he will receive quality mares; for those that adored him, it’s a bummer, nonetheless.
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