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The Doctors Saint
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Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:29 pm

That's what I thought I remembered reading in the racing thread; we get biblical amounts here where I live too like yesterday was ridiculous. I know nothing about track upkeep but that much water surely must cause its own problems even for turf.
BaroqueAgain1
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Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:48 pm

I wondered if a very heavy (for Cali horses) course could have been a contributing factor. I know Euro/Australasian horses race on soft/heavy grass all the time, but IMO a horse may need to build up muscle/tendon/ligament strength to handle that kind of surface...and our SoCal runners may not get much a chance to do that.
The Doctors Saint
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Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:30 pm

How lucky for Cheekaboo that she was scratched and retired when she was. I looked back and kind of did a double-take when I saw which race Amboseli broke down in. I also saw that at a mile a half on the turf in that race that the horses cross a different surface for part of it. Is that the usual way of doing things? Gotta be a different set of footing equations when your running like your butt's on fire and your legs are maybe getting tired.
BaroqueAgain1
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Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:53 pm

The downhill turf course at Santa Anita has always crossed over a section of the dirt course. That unique downhill may be the only US turf course where horses make a right-hand bend, which they do soon after the start before coming around the left-hand bend and crossing the dirt course. When they run a long turf race, the starting gate is placed part way up the downhill section.
I've watched jockeys take care to warm their mounts up back and forth over the dirt before heading up the hill, so the horses know what's coming. Many still tend to go a bit wide when they hit the dirt section...but I've never seen a horse fall right there because of it.
Catalina
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Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:09 pm

WarBiscuit wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:48 pm
BaroqueAgain1 wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:30 pm
I'd like to look at the fact that injured horses are vanned back to their barns from a more hopeful side. They get exams and various diagnostic scans done by their own vets. There are advancements in treatments for some injuries, so getting the horse back to their stall gives it a chance to be thoroughly examined. If the decision to euthanize still happens, it may not be made until the next day.
I'd rather see an injured horse given every chance at survival, rather than an expedient (and certain to make it into the charts) euthanization on the track. :(
I like to look at it from this perspective, as well.

WarBiscuit
If they're actually taken back to their own barn and examined etc, yes, that would be a step in the right direction. But, are they, or are some of them simply vanned to they can be put down out of sight?
genuinerizk
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Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:48 pm

Yes. That was my thought also, Catalina. That’s why I suppose a small part of me is still hopeful that Rose Dynasty is ok, maybe just tripped or stumbled, but I feel that’s probably not the case and they just don’t want to mention that it was fatal.
The Doctors Saint
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Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:09 pm

Thanks for explaining the course there, BaroqueAgain. When I first saw that difference in the footing I spent the rest of the evening looking up all kinds of stuff trying to figure it out or the possible reason for it including different surfaces like tapeta, etc.
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Curtis
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Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:17 pm

The Doctors Saint wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:09 pm
Thanks for explaining the course there, BaroqueAgain. When I first saw that difference in the footing I spent the rest of the evening looking up all kinds of stuff trying to figure it out or the possible reason for it including different surfaces like tapeta, etc.
Occasionally 12f turf races will start on the backstretch at Santa Anita but that's pretty rare. The reason is to avoid the going from yielding turf to mud/slop back to a yielding turf. You'd only see this in a stake big enough that it wouldn't be taken off of the turf. I don't know that other than when the BC is run at SA there are any G1 12f turf races there anymore. I believe the San Luis Rey is a G2. When it's a sloppy or worse main track, the policy has been for quite a few years now to always pull the app. 6.5f down the hill races off of the turf. When they first started really sealing tracks back in the '80's there were quite a few horses that broke down crossing the dirt. They would be going from a surface with give to it--softened turf--to a rock hard surface--sealed main--back to the softened turf. Some of those were downright ugly, not that any are pretty.
The Doctors Saint
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Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:58 pm

Curtis, thanks for taking the time to explain all that. Really, with all the variables in play it's a wonder that more crap doesn't happen. But I have to remember too that there are people in the industry who are at the top of their game working towards safety and better uniformity where they can.
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Le Beau Bai
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Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:40 am

Catalina wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:09 pm
WarBiscuit wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:48 pm
BaroqueAgain1 wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:30 pm
I'd like to look at the fact that injured horses are vanned back to their barns from a more hopeful side. They get exams and various diagnostic scans done by their own vets. There are advancements in treatments for some injuries, so getting the horse back to their stall gives it a chance to be thoroughly examined. If the decision to euthanize still happens, it may not be made until the next day.
I'd rather see an injured horse given every chance at survival, rather than an expedient (and certain to make it into the charts) euthanization on the track. :(
I like to look at it from this perspective, as well.

WarBiscuit
If they're actually taken back to their own barn and examined etc, yes, that would be a step in the right direction. But, are they, or are some of them simply vanned to they can be put down out of sight?
Under the AAEP guidelines, the procedure is to load the horse into the van to euthanize unless they’ve sustained an injury so severe that it warrants being euthanized on the track. (It’s actually in capitals on the document)
The regulatory veterinarian should make EVERY effort to load the injured horse into the ambulance before euthanasia.
From personal experience and reading necropsy reports as part of my research (they have to list where the euthanasia occurred) , I have been surprised by some of the horses who they have vanned off the track to then euthanized in the designated area on the track. One included a horse with bilateral, unstable limb fractures. Obviously it makes it more convenient from a practical perspective and the horses had received adequate analgesia prior to transport but I was admittedly quite surprised at the time!
Catalina
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Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:14 pm

Thank you for bringing that out into the open, LBB. It seems inhumane (if convenient for track management). The horse may not be in pain with "adequate analgesics", but it's still a sentient being that would be, at the very least, in shock, and the "designated area" likely reeks of disinfectant and terror and death.
TapitsGal
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Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:58 pm

I have often hoped and PRAYED even with my own horses I've seen transported, as well as those taken off the track by equine ambulance that IF they go off in the horse ambulance, I pray that either prior to loading, or en route back to the barn or wherever that the horse has been given SOME sort of narcotic pain relief from the vet...some of those injuries on some of those horses look beyond brutal(ie Barbaro, George Washington, Eight Belles, Landseer)...I understand many of them have immediate euthanasia in their futures, but to not treat the pain on those grounds would be horrible
Catalina
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Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:08 pm

TapitsGal wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:58 pm
I have often hoped and PRAYED even with my own horses I've seen transported, as well as those taken off the track by equine ambulance that IF they go off in the horse ambulance, I pray that either prior to loading, or en route back to the barn or wherever that the horse has been given SOME sort of narcotic pain relief from the vet...some of those injuries on some of those horses look beyond brutal(ie Barbaro, George Washington, Eight Belles, Landseer)...I understand many of them have immediate euthanasia in their futures, but to not treat the pain on those grounds would be horrible
Who said anything about them not being treated for pain???
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Mylute
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Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:53 pm

Aztec Sense?
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
firehorse
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Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:59 pm

according to Jorge Navarro twitter looks like he's going to be ok..... I hope that holds.
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Mylute
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Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:15 pm

Kid Cantina suffered an injury in the Robert B. Lewis and was vanned off.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
TapitsGal
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Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:34 pm

Kid Cantina euthanized
genuinerizk
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Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:12 pm

Any news on [No More Cache today in race 10 at Tampa?
interco
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Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:50 pm

Comegowithme eased late in SA3 and vanned off. Looked like she may have taken a bad step midstretch.
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Sparrow Castle
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Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:46 pm

interco wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:50 pm
Comegowithme eased late in SA3 and vanned off. Looked like she may have taken a bad step midstretch.
Jeremy Balan Verified account@BH_JBalan
39m39 minutes ago
Comegowithme has been taken back to the barn, which is good news. According to the stewards she sustained an injury, but it doesn't appear to be life threatening.
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