Stormy Liberal gets trainer switch

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Curtis
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:11 pm

Mylute wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:43 pm
Lots of big thinks going on.

I also don't think it's the lack of "rescue" organizations or rescue money (I don't like that word because Stormy Liberal does not need rescued, he's not in a kill lot or was left abandoned on a property).

Not that I dislike Old Friends as much as some do, because I don't, but there's now several different options for retirement and second careers out there. He's still relatively young, so he could be retrained through New Vocations, Maker's Mark, etc. He'd make a really good advocate for OTTBs, being a "well-known" globetrotting Eclipse and BC winner. Depending on his temperament he could also be a pony for Miller.

This could be a tin foil hat, but maybe they were looking at Old Friends because they didn't think he could handle a second competitive career for the same reasons they don't want him racing?
Rescue organization was being used in general terms. If it suits you better, call it an Equine Retirement Facility.
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Kurenai
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:44 pm

Well, if you have a clause in a contract that states that if one partnership wants to retire/sell the horse, the other half can refuse and buy them out, that's it. If Bernsen thinks he can get him back to top shape physically, with a different trainer... good luck. (IMO that horse has done enough for them to earn a lifelong retirement, either at Old Friends or let him be a stable pony for Miller.)

I totally understand Miller going public with this. If anything happens to the horse he wants to be clear he had nothing to do with it. I agree with Curtis good for him.

Not sure if Brensen is naive and simply wants to enjoy the horse for one more year in racing, thinking he can bring him back to top form. Or if it's greed. If it's the later...
MySaladDays
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:49 pm

Mylute wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:43 pm
I also don't think it's the lack of "rescue" organizations or rescue money (I don't like that word because Stormy Liberal does not need rescued, he's not in a kill lot or was left abandoned on a property).

MY POINT wasn't about him in particular.

When I own an animal, I am responsible for it for life. If I sell for a profit, then the next person takes on that responsibility.

I don't expect other people to take on the burden of it's care, or re-training, later in life.



It always amazes me that race horses don't have $$ set aside for each time they race, each time they carry a person on their back and give their all, whether they win or lose.......and that goes toward their upkeep later in life, costs of re-training for another career, etc. and euthanasia, if necessary.

More nice little grifter stuff going on at the racetracks for rich owners to pass their responsibility on to others.
katmandu
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:53 pm

This brouhaha caused me to go back and look at the 2018 Breeders Cup Turf Sprint. What a horse! And ears go straight up when he hits the wire, lol!

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=20 ... &FORM=VIRE

Good to know the spot light of publicity is on him.
MySaladDays
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:55 pm

Kurenai wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:44 pm
I totally understand Miller going public with this. If anything happens to the horse he wants to be clear he had nothing to do with it.
I don't know what Miller did to the horse during his career. Did the horse have injuries that were covered up with meds, etc. like so many horses do?

Maybe the horse has *problems* and he's just CYA.

It would be nice to think somebody actually CARES about the actual horse. This could be Miller caring more about Miller (his own reputation) than the horse, who knows.
MySaladDays
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:58 pm

katmandu wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:53 pm
This brouhaha caused me to go back and look at the 2018 Breeders Cup Turf Sprint. What a horse! And ears go straight up when he hits the wire, lol!

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=20 ... &FORM=VIRE

Good to know the spot light of publicity is on him.
It's nice to have a spotlight and be loved and recognized.

Conversely, I follow horses who are at risk. No spotlight is on them at all. By making lots of posts about the ones that look like someone is draining the last drop, and keeping an eye on them, I was once able to find someone to purchase a horse simply to save his life who had once been a derby potential. Who later became *disposable* .... I did not want to see him juiced for the last $200-300 somebody could get from putting him on the meat truck.

I've put $$ into this game for over 20 years....I'm not going to continue to do it if I think there are vast ethical concerns, and so I do support a lot of the new protocols and policies.......I love horse racing and don't WANT to walk away from U.S. Racing, but many of my "racing colleagues" have, and they have been in it for longer than I have.
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Kurenai
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:15 pm

MySaladDays wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:55 pm
It would be nice to think somebody actually CARES about the actual horse. This could be Miller caring more about Miller (his own reputation) than the horse, who knows.
Well he and the vet advised for the horse to be retired. Keep in mind Stormy Liberal is 8. And even if Miller cares about his own reputation, there is nothing wrong with that. He obviously disagrees with the decision to try and continue racing him.
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Curtis
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:01 pm

MySaladDays wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:49 pm
Mylute wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:43 pm
I also don't think it's the lack of "rescue" organizations or rescue money (I don't like that word because Stormy Liberal does not need rescued, he's not in a kill lot or was left abandoned on a property).

MY POINT wasn't about him in particular.

When I own an animal, I am responsible for it for life. If I sell for a profit, then the next person takes on that responsibility.

I don't expect other people to take on the burden of it's care, or re-training, later in life.



It always amazes me that race horses don't have $$ set aside for each time they race, each time they carry a person on their back and give their all, whether they win or lose.......and that goes toward their upkeep later in life, costs of re-training for another career, etc. and euthanasia, if necessary.

More nice little grifter stuff going on at the racetracks for rich owners to pass their responsibility on to others.
I understand that but I don’t know how that pertains to Stormy Liberal. Look, I spend hours daily caring for two OTTB’s and a QH who is a former Western Pleasure show horse. Nobody gives me a dime nor do I ask for it nor am I bucking for sainthood. I was able to get one OTTB away from someone who was running him into to ground. As for the other, Google Border Run. My wife, daughter and I care for them because they deserve it—as many others do— and when they’re gone they’ll be replaced. But I can’t demand or expect others to follow suit. I can only hope they do the right thing.
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:14 pm

The owner has responded (from horseracingnation)
"Peter Miller never mentioned retirement of the horse until Monday after he was informed the horse was being removed from his barn that afternoon and in fact, it was my understanding that he was trying to run him at Del Mar just last week except the races did not fill."
https://amp.horseracingnation.com/news/ ... ssion=true
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katmandu
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:37 pm

MySaladDays wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:58 pm
katmandu wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:53 pm
This brouhaha caused me to go back and look at the 2018 Breeders Cup Turf Sprint. What a horse! And ears go straight up when he hits the wire, lol!

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=20 ... &FORM=VIRE

Good to know the spot light of publicity is on him.
It's nice to have a spotlight and be loved and recognized.

Conversely, I follow horses who are at risk. No spotlight is on them at all. By making lots of posts about the ones that look like someone is draining the last drop, and keeping an eye on them, I was once able to find someone to purchase a horse simply to save his life who had once been a derby potential. Who later became *disposable* .... I did not want to see him juiced for the last $200-300 somebody could get from putting him on the meat truck.

I've put $$ into this game for over 20 years....I'm not going to continue to do it if I think there are vast ethical concerns, and so I do support a lot of the new protocols and policies.......I love horse racing and don't WANT to walk away from U.S. Racing, but many of my "racing colleagues" have, and they have been in it for longer than I have.
Oh good grief, I've kept horses from birth (that were injured pre-training) to their natural death. Ditto retired horses. It's been a lot of work AND money. The thread is about Stormy Liberal.

Vast is not a quantifiable term, it is personal. But everyone that gives a whit about horses should have some serious ethical concerns about the juxtaposition of horses and money.

That being said, good on you for taking the effort to "rescue" the horse. At the very least, they deserved to be spared suffering (euthanasia). Every horse matters because they all are capable of suffering.
Last edited by katmandu on Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:40 pm

RugbyGirl wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:14 pm
The owner has responded (from horseracingnation)
"Peter Miller never mentioned retirement of the horse until Monday after he was informed the horse was being removed from his barn that afternoon and in fact, it was my understanding that he was trying to run him at Del Mar just last week except the races did not fill."
https://amp.horseracingnation.com/news/ ... ssion=true
That’s the Peter Miller I know and love.
MySaladDays
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Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:40 am

RugbyGirl wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:14 pm
The owner has responded (from horseracingnation)
"Peter Miller never mentioned retirement of the horse until Monday after he was informed the horse was being removed from his barn that afternoon and in fact, it was my understanding that he was trying to run him at Del Mar just last week except the races did not fill."
:o
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Kurenai
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Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:34 am

Curtis wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:40 pm
RugbyGirl wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:14 pm
The owner has responded (from horseracingnation)
"Peter Miller never mentioned retirement of the horse until Monday after he was informed the horse was being removed from his barn that afternoon and in fact, it was my understanding that he was trying to run him at Del Mar just last week except the races did not fill."
https://amp.horseracingnation.com/news/ ... ssion=true
That’s the Peter Miller I know and love.
Ha! (I don't know him, but I trust your judgement on that)

From the article
Bernsen said he recommended an evaluation of the 7-year-old after he finished eighth in the Breeders’ Cup Turf Sprint on Nov. 2 at Santa Anita Park. Stormy Liberal had won consecutive runnings of that event in 2017-2018.

“Then, and only then, would a decision be made on whether he would continue to race based on consultation with the veterinary professionals,” Bernsen said. “If the decision to retire him was made, he would already be in Kentucky to go to Old Friends.”
Sounds reasonable enough to me! If Stormy Liberal is healthy and likes his job, no reason to not race him in a bit softer spots.
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Treve
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Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:38 pm

Did I dream it or isn't there at least one country that has such a program for horses? I.e. a retirement fund for each individual horse.

I feel like it would be a great aftercare initiative, and there's multiple potentially viable ways I could see it being done.

A percentage could be collected from purse money and betting pools, which could then be redistributed to each horse upon retirement from racing... maybe in the form of a monthly stipend? Like a pension. Geldings could get a larger percentage, while mares and intact males would get a smaller percentage if used for breeding. Their monthly allowance could go up after being pensioned from breeding. The money could be tied to the horse's registration number rather than the owner, so that the money would follow the horse no matter how many times the horse switches hands. This could also act as an additional incentive for equestrians to adopt OTTBs. There could be a baseline minimum each horse is allowed to touch if they've made at least one start, but then the total amount could be based on number of lifetime starts.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Curtis
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Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:53 pm

Treve wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:38 pm
Did I dream it or isn't there at least one country that has such a program for horses? I.e. a retirement fund for each individual horse.

I feel like it would be a great aftercare initiative, and there's multiple potentially viable ways I could see it being done.

A percentage could be collected from purse money and betting pools, which could then be redistributed to each horse upon retirement from racing... maybe in the form of a monthly stipend? Like a pension. Geldings could get a larger percentage, while mares and intact males would get a smaller percentage if used for breeding. Their monthly allowance could go up after being pensioned from breeding. The money could be tied to the horse's registration number rather than the owner, so that the money would follow the horse no matter how many times the horse switches hands. This could also act as an additional incentive for equestrians to adopt OTTBs. There could be a baseline minimum each horse is allowed to touch if they've made at least one start, but then the total amount could be based on number of lifetime starts.
Thank you for coming up with an idea for a solution!
stark
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Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:00 pm

Funding long term care is a difficult concept when it comes to our own human parents, not sure why the expectations for horses should be so much better.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:22 pm

stark wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:00 pm
Funding long term care is a difficult concept when it comes to our own human parents, not sure why the expectations for horses should be so much better.
Maybe it should be more difficult to get an owner’s and or trainer so license. Everybody’s got parents but not everyone should have or train horses.
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Treve
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Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:01 pm

Humans also have personal circumstances that factor in to caring for the elderly in a way horses do not.

There are also a lot less racehorses in the USA than there are elderly folks. Not sure how that is comparable, tbh.

I will say one of the biggest hurdles I can see with such a project is the fact the US doesn't have a national racing ruling body/org.
A filly named Ruffian...

Eine Stute namens Danedream...

Une pouliche se nommant Trêve...

Kincsem nevű kanca...


And a Queen named Beholder
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Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:32 pm

Random maiden race in Australia tomorrow
Race 1 - 1:00PM IGA Liquor Barwon Heads Maiden Plate (1100 METRES)Times displayed in local time of Race MeetingOf $23,000.1st $12,650, 2nd $3,910, 3rd $1,840, 4th $1,035, 5th $690, 6th $575, 7th $575, 8th $575, 9th $575, 10th $575
Prize money contribution totalling 2% will be directed to jockey and equine welfare prior to distribution 
Maiden, Set Weights, Three-Years-Old, Apprentices can claim.
Ask me any questions you have about New Zealand and Australia racing
greyhorse
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Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:33 pm

I was skeptical as soon as I saw Peter Miller was crying about a horse's welfare. He had one of the most frequent breakdown rates while I was at the tracks.
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