2019 Pegasus World Cup

peeptoad
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Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:56 am

Somnambulist wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:07 pm
peeptoad wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:31 am
Tessablue wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:11 pm
Haven't had a chance to keep up with anything lately, but Hidden Scroll just catapulted onto many Derby lists. Incredible debut for a Mott, albeit one who was working lights out before today.
104 BSF
That's a pretty nice figure. This is obviously not saying that he would win it, but Mott is really due for a Derby win. That would probably be almost as satisfying as seeing Shug win it.
Be funny if we had back to back "curse breakings", but who knows. Still along way to the gate in May.
I'd love to see Hidden Scroll back this effort up (and on a dry track), but he looks the goods right now even if the Derby isn't ultimately where he winds up.
stark
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Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:24 am

Hell will freeze over before Mott follows in Baffert's footsteps and "rushes" a horse into the TripleCrown.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
thinair
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Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:32 am

stark wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:24 am
Hell will freeze over before Mott follows in Baffert's footsteps and "rushes" a horse into the TripleCrown.
Didn't he do that with Hofburg last year?
Somnambulist

Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:39 am

Not only that but I don't know how it's rushing anymore when most of them barely start 4 times before the race.
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Mylute
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Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:42 am

Somnambulist wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:39 am
Not only that but I don't know how it's rushing anymore when most of them barely start 4 times before the race.
Yes exactly.

"The Triple Crown is literally murder!!!" people cry, but horses typically only run two preps nowadays.
"I'm here, free as the wind, fountain of extraordinary knowledge, splendidly corrupt, and eager to be of profitable service."
~ Peter Lorre 1904 - 1̶9̶6̶4̶ ∞
stark
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Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:43 am

thinair wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:32 am
stark wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:24 am
Hell will freeze over before Mott follows in Baffert's footsteps and "rushes" a horse into the TripleCrown.
Didn't he do that with Hofburg last year?
Close
Similar except for the results.
Hofburg did have a more traditional start in September of his 2YO season.

What has Mott done in the past, something like 8 Derby starters without hitting the board?
Obviously not his forte.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
thinair
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Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:29 am

stark wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:43 am
thinair wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:32 am
stark wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:24 am
Hell will freeze over before Mott follows in Baffert's footsteps and "rushes" a horse into the TripleCrown.
Didn't he do that with Hofburg last year?
Close
Similar except for the results.
Hofburg did have a more traditional start in September of his 2YO season.

What has Mott done in the past, something like 8 Derby starters without hitting the board?
Obviously not his forte.
This horse broke his maiden earlier than Hofburg did in his second start. He was training in Saratoga, just like Hofburg, the only difference being that he didn't make a futile trip around the oval in the afternoon. I hear you but Hofburg was rushed to the Derby, and I think Bill would agree with that. I'm not even saying it was the wrong move, but he had the same number of total starts as Justify. I tend to defer to guys like Mott that they know what's right for their horses.....except Jason Servis for continuing to enter World of Trouble in turf sprints. He might be the best dirt sprinter in the country, or at least one of them, and perhaps they should exhaust that possibility before running in any more turf sprints ( but I digress ).
stark
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Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:54 am

Bottom line......
If I were to compare Mott's plans to another trainer's area of expertise, before I'd ever compare him to following in Baffert's footsteps , the next 100 times I'd compare him to the late great patient Bobby Frankel who also never won a Derby.
Some really great trainers just don't get it, what it takes to run successfully in the Triple Crown.
And, as discussed previously here, any owner, even Juddmonte is susceptible to catching the fever and putting pressure on their trainers to run.
As a gambler, I love to see money flowing in the future books on the hype these types of horses generate that simply are trying to run with one hand tied behind their back.

As cold as it is out there right now, hell could indeed freeze over, I'm just not expecting it this year.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
thinair
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Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:07 pm

stark wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:54 am
Bottom line......
If I were to compare Mott's plans to another trainer's area of expertise, before I'd ever compare him to following in Baffert's footsteps , the next 100 times I'd compare him to the late great patient Bobby Frankel who also never won a Derby.
Some really great trainers just don't get it, what it takes to run successfully in the Triple Crown.
And, as discussed previously here, any owner, even Juddmonte is susceptible to catching the fever and putting pressure on their trainers to run.
As a gambler, I love to see money flowing in the future books on the hype these types of horses generate that simply are trying to run with one hand tied behind their back.

As cold as it is out there right now, hell could indeed freeze over, I'm just not expecting it this year.
I don't particularly disagree.
lurkey mclurker
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Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:33 pm

Mike Welsch @DRFWelsch
·
13m

Big changes to 2020 Pegasus World Cup Championships. Purse reductions from $9 million to $3 million for World Cup $7 million to $1 million for Turf. All entry fees waived. Medication free on race day i.e. no Lasix with 2% of purse winnings going to Thorougbred Aftercare.
https://twitter.com/DRFWelsch/status/12 ... 0282223618
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Retrospectiv
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Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:42 pm

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway', but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies."
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Squeaky
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Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:34 pm

Gary West says Max may run in Saudi Cup instead of Pegasus due to “drastic” purse drop. Says unfair to wait until “last minute” to inform owners of this change.
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ThreeMustangs
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Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:41 pm

Squeaky wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:34 pm
Gary West says Max may run in Saudi Cup instead of Pegasus due to “drastic” purse drop. Says unfair to wait until “last minute” to inform owners of this change.
Just a ray of sunshine, isn’t he?
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Curtis
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Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:54 pm

ThreeMustangs wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:41 pm
Squeaky wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:34 pm
Gary West says Max may run in Saudi Cup instead of Pegasus due to “drastic” purse drop. Says unfair to wait until “last minute” to inform owners of this change.
Just a ray of sunshine, isn’t he?
He’s not wrong.
hadrianmarcus
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Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:59 pm

Curtis wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:54 pm
ThreeMustangs wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:41 pm
Squeaky wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:34 pm
Gary West says Max may run in Saudi Cup instead of Pegasus due to “drastic” purse drop. Says unfair to wait until “last minute” to inform owners of this change.
Just a ray of sunshine, isn’t he?
He’s not wrong.
He's also not a ray of sunshine. But he is consistent.
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Curtis
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Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:20 pm

hadrianmarcus wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:59 pm
Curtis wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:54 pm
ThreeMustangs wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:41 pm


Just a ray of sunshine, isn’t he?
He’s not wrong.
He's also not a ray of sunshine. But he is consistent.
If another owner said the same thing would they get the same moniker? West needs to say no comment but Team Stronach is dead wrong in this.
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Starine
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Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:15 pm

Danny Gargan, who trains Tax, is also upset:
"They changed the game, they changed the rules. He's in Florida and will train like he's going to run in the Pegasus, but I don't know if he will. I'm disappointed in the timing. You don't have people ship in for the race and do this," Gargan said. "I'd rather be fourth for $20 million than third for $3 million. I can't believe they cut the purse like that. I come down here all pumped up about running in the race, and now it feels like a flat tire.

"I was disappointed in the way it was handled. This should have come out two months ago."
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... m-security
thinair
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Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:46 pm

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:45 am

The change is less significant than it might appear, and mostly cuts the winner's share ( roughly ) in half from last year. Runner up spots are even less significantly lowered. Regardless, at least they are running it straight now, and not creating a phony purse based on supposed entry fees that are mostly refunded ( and not even really paid ).

The problem is waiting until less than six weeks from the race to announce these changes. This information began making the rounds a little over a week ago ( and may have forced their hands to even announce it this "early" ), but even that is a bit close to the race given the circumstances. Regardless, it's still a pretty big purse, and I'm confused as to why someone pointing to it would now look to go elsewhere.
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Mylute
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Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:18 am

I think dropping it down to 6 or 7 million, or perhaps 8 million, would have been better.

It's still not as profitable as the Saudi, but with a higher purse around that range trainers might think twice about sending their horse into a largely uncharted territory (as far as US runners go) in a different climate. It's not that different from Dubai, but Dubai also has the "environment" factor.
"I'm here, free as the wind, fountain of extraordinary knowledge, splendidly corrupt, and eager to be of profitable service."
~ Peter Lorre 1904 - 1̶9̶6̶4̶ ∞
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Kurenai
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Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:22 am

thinair wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:45 am
The change is less significant than it might appear, and mostly cuts the winner's share ( roughly ) in half from last year. Runner up spots are even less significantly lowered. Regardless, at least they are running it straight now, and not creating a phony purse based on supposed entry fees that are mostly refunded ( and not even really paid ).

The problem is waiting until less than six weeks from the race to announce these changes. This information began making the rounds a little over a week ago ( and may have forced their hands to even announce it this "early" ), but even that is a bit close to the race given the circumstances. Regardless, it's still a pretty big purse, and I'm confused as to why someone pointing to it would now look to go elsewhere.
Exactly this!
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