Stallion News

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Mylute
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:26 pm

PlanetRock wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:18 pm
Shackleford to Korea :(
Why?????
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PlanetRock
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:59 pm

Mylute wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:26 pm
PlanetRock wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:18 pm
Shackleford to Korea :(
Why?????
My thoughts as well.
TapitsGal
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:01 pm

PlanetRock wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:18 pm
Shackleford to Korea :(
well this is a shock. I thought shack was doing reasonably well at stud
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bare it all
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:00 pm

Mylute wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:26 pm
PlanetRock wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:18 pm
Shackleford to Korea :(
Why?????
He's been pretty abysmal at the sales and we know that's all that matters.
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bare it all
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:13 pm

Example from 1 sales results...

Shackleford's 2017 fee was $15K.
At the KEE September Yearling Sale, 27 Shackleford yearlings went through the ring.

6 were RNA, 4 of those eclipsed the $15k mark
21 sold, only 9 of those for more than $15k
hadrianmarcus
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:15 pm

PlanetRock wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:18 pm
Shackleford to Korea :(
I genuinely surprised by this. Being a Shack fan, I'd rather seen him go to Japan or Turkey.
BaroqueAgain1
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:55 pm

Japan would have been nice, but its breeders seem mainly interested in stallions who have turf breeding, or who have shown versatility in their own careers.
Shack' was a dirt runner and, IIRC, all his best offspring have run on the brown stuff.
Korea, however, has dirt racing and the breeders appear to want to produce runners who could compete in the US.
Not sure what the Turkish breeding industry's main goals are for their horses, although a few of them have shown up in the Dubai races.
Ziggypop
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:15 pm

[quote=PlanetRock post_id=219286 time=1578586687 user_id=37517

This makes me sick.
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Northport
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:15 pm

I'm not concerned about his safety as a stallion in Korea, but after seeing how blasé the Korean racing industry is about how they dispose of the 90% of their horses that aren't at the elite level... bleh. His progeny better be fast.
weeeeeeeee
Ziggypop
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:21 pm

Northport wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:15 pm
I'm not concerned about his safety as a stallion in Korea, but after seeing how blasé the Korean racing industry is about how they dispose of the 90% of their horses that aren't at the elite level... bleh. His progeny better be fast.
Exactly.
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Mylute
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:28 pm

I have no particular fan attachment to Shackleford (he ran before my time), but I was under the impression he was doing pretty well as a stallion.
"I'm here, free as the wind, fountain of extraordinary knowledge, splendidly corrupt, and eager to be of profitable service."
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CleverCharm
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:34 pm

Shack is one of the reasons I fell in love with horse racing. I left a pool party in Vegas to go watch his Preakness. I'm heartbroken, but not surprised. Glad I had the chance to meet him at Darby Dan a few years ago. Hopefully he will come home someday.
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Flanders
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Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:42 pm

He wasn't doing particularly well but they let his first crop race through age 5. I'm sure the time was warranted because he got Promises Fullfilled in his second crop. All his GSWs came from his first 2 crops. Then his books started dropping and continued to drop. He went from 162 mares in 2017 to 78 in 2019. I'm sure his bookings for 2020 were even less, which is why they sold him. Once the breeders give up on a stallion farms tend to sell them.

I also think the majority of his stallion crop that is still in Kentucky is on the verge, except The Factor and oddly Maclean's Music. Like they need significant runners from the 2020 2yo crops or I wouldn't be surprised to see the vast majority of them sold. If you look at the 2019 Leading Fourth Crop sire list, The Factor is in first, I'll Have Another (who stood in Japan), Stay Thirsty(who was sold to CA), and then Shackleford(who was sold to Korea). To me that puts all the rest in a precarious spot. I can make arguments why most of them are still in Kentucky for now, Dialed In, Union Rags, and Creative Cause are all around 3.5% SWs to foals of racing age. Maclean's Music wasn't bred to huge books of mares his first couple years but managed to get 5.7% SWs, plus he sired Cloud Computing. Tapizar is still in Kentucky because he sired Monomoy Girl. Get Stormy doesn't stand at a huge commercial farm, sired Got Stormy and is around 3.3%.

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/t ... obcy=1#tot
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Private Thoughts
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:40 am

Is it any wonder these stallions produce less than stellar results when many of our stellar bloodstock goes to other countries?

Keep sending off our top tier horses, mares, stallions, yearlings. When you’re using 2nd rate bloodstock, expect 2nd rate results. Pretty simple.

Sure we have some good horses here. I would not put it past Coolmore to send American Pharoah to Ireland to stand if he continues with the excellent grass offspring and ho hum dirt runners. Kinda a reverse of Giant’s Causeway. What will people say then?
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Flanders
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:20 am

Private Thoughts wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:40 am
Is it any wonder these stallions produce less than stellar results when many of our stellar bloodstock goes to other countries?

Keep sending off our top tier horses, mares, stallions, yearlings. When you’re using 2nd rate bloodstock, expect 2nd rate results. Pretty simple.

Sure we have some good horses here. I would not put it past Coolmore to send American Pharoah to Ireland to stand if he continues with the excellent grass offspring and ho hum dirt runners. Kinda a reverse of Giant’s Causeway. What will people say then?
No, its because they aren't stellar stallions. Stellar stallions get results regardless of the mares bred to them, then because they get results, they get the stellar mares.

Don't act like selling horses to other countries is something new. We've had great racehorses in the US in the past 10-15 years, I wouldn't call them 2nd rate. Quite a few which are the results of horses going to other countries or being imported to the US.

I've never been one to bemoan a horse being sold overseas because it works the other way as well. Do you think Giant's Causeway didn't have fans in Europe where he raced? Or Candy Ride didn't have fans in Argentina? Without the exchange of bloodstock we wouldn't have a lot of top horses in the US.

I mean off the top of my head I could say, we wouldn't have the HOTYs American Pharoah, Justify, Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, Gun Runner, Wise Dan, etc. and that is just from horses imported to the US over the past 30-40 years.

Also as a huge fan of American Pharoah if that is where he needs to go to continue his stud career, I'm completely fine with it.
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Private Thoughts
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:06 am

Empire Maker was a very good stallion, sold to Japan, pretty much a bust there and thankfully brought back. When he sold there many people were quite surprised as he was not struggling as a sire.

Many of the European horses imported had a lot to do with a few world wars and their owners preferring them not to be used as pack animals or rations. Last I looked this country isn’t at war.
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Mylute
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:02 pm

Oh Flanders, don't you know that any horse that isn't a Euro is second rate?
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KatieK101
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:07 pm

Flanders wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:42 pm
I also think the majority of his stallion crop that is still in Kentucky is on the verge, except The Factor and oddly Maclean's Music. Like they need significant runners from the 2020 2yo crops or I wouldn't be surprised to see the vast majority of them sold. If you look at the 2019 Leading Fourth Crop sire list, The Factor is in first, I'll Have Another (who stood in Japan), Stay Thirsty(who was sold to CA), and then Shackleford(who was sold to Korea). To me that puts all the rest in a precarious spot. I can make arguments why most of them are still in Kentucky for now, Dialed In, Union Rags, and Creative Cause are all around 3.5% SWs to foals of racing age. Maclean's Music wasn't bred to huge books of mares his first couple years but managed to get 5.7% SWs, plus he sired Cloud Computing. Tapizar is still in Kentucky because he sired Monomoy Girl. Get Stormy doesn't stand at a huge commercial farm, sired Got Stormy and is around 3.3%.

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/t ... obcy=1#tot
I've thought similarly about the fourth crop sires. Union Rags is my favorite stallion so I've wondered about the possibility of Lanes End ever selling him, but they don't seem like the kind of farm that sells their stallions to other countries (not to the same extent as Spendthrift or WindStar, anyway). And they're very invested in his lineage.

But with that being said, most stallions don't have an explosive start at stud. Is there a typical crop where stallions tend to pick up speed? IIRC it took a few crops for Curlin and Quality Road to really start turning heads.
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Flanders
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:15 pm

Private Thoughts wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:06 am
Empire Maker was a very good stallion, sold to Japan, pretty much a bust there and thankfully brought back. When he sold there many people were quite surprised as he was not struggling as a sire.

Many of the European horses imported had a lot to do with a few world wars and their owners preferring them not to be used as pack animals or rations. Last I looked this country isn’t at war.
Last I checked there wasn't a world war in the past 40 years. All the horses that I mentioned were the results of horses imported in the past 40 years.
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Mylute
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:21 pm

I'm no expert but I would guess more than likely the second or third crop, because by that time the first crop is on the ground, and the breeders who were a bit gun shy of sending their mares to an unproven stud have seen the (albeit baby) produce and have seen how well they're received by buyers. If my calendar math is correct, the third crop born is after the first crop hit the track, so if the stud did well then breeders will be more interested in him.

And yes Lane's End seems to be more patient with their stallions (and I know that stallions are 90% of the time owned by a syndicate and not entirely the stud, but at least the usual syndicate owners with LE seem to be more patient). However I think The Factor's 1 year lease to Japan was testing the waters over there. I think that's pretty smart, since you don't want to be too hasty with a complete sale (WinStar and TCI) and the absence of the stallion for a year might increase sales. IIRC The Factor's sales numbers went up.
"I'm here, free as the wind, fountain of extraordinary knowledge, splendidly corrupt, and eager to be of profitable service."
~ Peter Lorre 1904 - 1̶9̶6̶4̶ ∞
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