Top Ten Lists 2020 Kentucky Derby

stark
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:50 pm

Or just whoever your personal favorite is as we're still a ways away from loading the starting gate on May 2nd.

It's fun to look back as we proceed with caution.

“Here are this week’s Kentucky Derby rankings, courtesy of Xpressbet: (Jon White)
1. Storm the Court
2. Dennis’ Moment
3. Thousand Words
4. Maxfield
5. Tiz the Law
6. Authentic
7. Independence Hall
8. Anneau d’Or
9. Untitled
10. Chance It
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Slewfan2
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:05 pm

I'm hoping to see Honor A.P. back on there, but I understand why Jon White and others have completely left him off. Until word is given that he's ok, you have to assume he's going to miss too much time.
stark
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:12 pm

Slewfan2 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:05 pm
I'm hoping to see Honor A.P. back on there, but I understand why Jon White and others have completely left him off. Until word is given that he's ok, you have to assume he's going to miss too much time.
It's hard enough to handicap the horses, but here you have to handicap the trainers equally as much.
As in this case......I'd need 300/1 or so to consider a future book wager on Sherriffs.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Squeaky
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:32 pm

Untitled? Have not heard of him...please fill me in thanks!
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Mylute
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:42 pm

Squeaky wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:32 pm
Untitled? Have not heard of him...please fill me in thanks!
Untitled's a Florida-bred son of Khozan who broke his maiden by 11 lengths in December.
"I'm here, free as the wind, fountain of extraordinary knowledge, splendidly corrupt, and eager to be of profitable service."
~ Peter Lorre 1904 - 1̶9̶6̶4̶ ∞
stark
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Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:43 pm

Mylute wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:42 pm
Squeaky wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:32 pm
Untitled? Have not heard of him...please fill me in thanks!
Untitled's a Florida-bred son of Khozan who broke his maiden by 11 lengths in December.
Cost $45,000
http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEm ... y=USA&rn=2

Runner-up came right back to romp at a very short price
http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEm ... y=USA&rn=2
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Squeaky
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:36 pm

Thanks- very impressive. One to watch for sure. Hope he stays sound and healthy!
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Squeaky
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:38 pm

Article in HRN says was bought by Gary Barber- wonder how much- and now trained by Mark Casse aiming for Swale Stakes.
Izvestia
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:52 pm

Horses who have my attention right now:
Independence Hall
Three Technique
Maxfield
Anneau d’Or
Scabbard
Slewfan2
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:10 pm

stark wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:12 pm
Slewfan2 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:05 pm
I'm hoping to see Honor A.P. back on there, but I understand why Jon White and others have completely left him off. Until word is given that he's ok, you have to assume he's going to miss too much time.
It's hard enough to handicap the horses, but here you have to handicap the trainers equally as much.
As in this case......I'd need 300/1 or so to consider a future book wager on Sherriffs.
I know this board is generally not fans of JS, but why? Because he’s overly patient? In any case, this colt has an enormous amount of talent, so if he’s healthy, he’d certainly be on my list.
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Squeaky
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:14 pm

I wish we had an update on Honor AP- JS pretty vague on what his injury was- hope they have found and treated the problem.
stark
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:19 pm

Slewfan2 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:10 pm
stark wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:12 pm
Slewfan2 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:05 pm
I'm hoping to see Honor A.P. back on there, but I understand why Jon White and others have completely left him off. Until word is given that he's ok, you have to assume he's going to miss too much time.
It's hard enough to handicap the horses, but here you have to handicap the trainers equally as much.
As in this case......I'd need 300/1 or so to consider a future book wager on Sherriffs.
I know this board is generally not fans of JS, but why? Because he’s overly patient? In any case, this colt has an enormous amount of talent, so if he’s healthy, he’d certainly be on my list.
I once read an interview with him and I came away with the impression that's he training all his horses to be Zenyatta. Specifically, telling workout jocks to wait, wait some more than pounce in the lane. That's all well and good but on the west coast if you don't put some speed into 'em they're up against it from the get go. IMHO.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Mylute
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm

Yeah I don't think the dislike stems from him as a person, but how he trains.

You can push a horse too much, and you can push them too little. Sherriffs is generally considered to push his horses far too little. Zenyatta was a late bloomer who required a lot of patience and easy-going. Zenyatta was his superstar, and so he thinks that method of training will work for all horses.
"I'm here, free as the wind, fountain of extraordinary knowledge, splendidly corrupt, and eager to be of profitable service."
~ Peter Lorre 1904 - 1̶9̶6̶4̶ ∞
stark
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:01 pm

JS should relocate to the east coast and train nothing but turf runners, he'd be a star!
Chad who?
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
Slewfan2
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Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:35 pm

Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:03 pm

stark wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:19 pm
Slewfan2 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:10 pm
stark wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:12 pm

It's hard enough to handicap the horses, but here you have to handicap the trainers equally as much.
As in this case......I'd need 300/1 or so to consider a future book wager on Sherriffs.
I know this board is generally not fans of JS, but why? Because he’s overly patient? In any case, this colt has an enormous amount of talent, so if he’s healthy, he’d certainly be on my list.
I once read an interview with him and I came away with the impression that's he training all his horses to be Zenyatta. Specifically, telling workout jocks to wait, wait some more than pounce in the lane. That's all well and good but on the west coast if you don't put some speed into 'em they're up against it from the get go. IMHO.
He hasn’t done that with Honor A.P. and not with another 3 year old, Thunder Code. I think both of them run best from off the pace. - I assume Mike Smith sent the former to the lead in his maiden win because he didn’t want to take any chances with the best horse. In TC’s case, he’s broken very well in his last two starts and the jock went in with him instead of taking him back. Doesn’t a trainer train a horse based on the horse’s preferred running style?
Slewfan2
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:04 pm

Mylute wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm
Yeah I don't think the dislike stems from him as a person, but how he trains.

You can push a horse too much, and you can push them too little. Sherriffs is generally considered to push his horses far too little. Zenyatta was a late bloomer who required a lot of patience and easy-going. Zenyatta was his superstar, and so he thinks that method of training will work for all horses.
Do we know that he thinks that ? He’s had success in the game before Zenyatta...
thinair
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:20 pm

Slewfan2 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:04 pm
Mylute wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm
Yeah I don't think the dislike stems from him as a person, but how he trains.

You can push a horse too much, and you can push them too little. Sherriffs is generally considered to push his horses far too little. Zenyatta was a late bloomer who required a lot of patience and easy-going. Zenyatta was his superstar, and so he thinks that method of training will work for all horses.
Do we know that he thinks that ? He’s had success in the game before Zenyatta...
He doesn't. What about Mentor Cane? He was a bullet.

I like John and think he's a good trainer....he just doesn't run that often.
BaroqueAgain1
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:54 pm

Thanks for remembering Mentor Cane, TA. He was such a gorgeous steel grey, and looked like he was about to become a real G1 sprinter when he tragically died suddenly. :(
Slewfan2
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:14 pm

thinair wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:20 pm
Slewfan2 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:04 pm
Mylute wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:50 pm
Yeah I don't think the dislike stems from him as a person, but how he trains.

You can push a horse too much, and you can push them too little. Sherriffs is generally considered to push his horses far too little. Zenyatta was a late bloomer who required a lot of patience and easy-going. Zenyatta was his superstar, and so he thinks that method of training will work for all horses.
Do we know that he thinks that ? He’s had success in the game before Zenyatta...
He doesn't. What about Mentor Cane? He was a bullet.

I like John and think he's a good trainer....he just doesn't run that often.
Thanks, Andy. I understand the frustration if he's keeping healthy horses in the barn, but I don't think you can have the success he's had training all horses the same way - it just wouldn't work. Does he run his older horses more often than his 2 or 3 year olds? If so, maybe it's because he believes they'll be better in the long run.......
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Starine
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Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:28 pm

stark wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:19 pm
I once read an interview with him and I came away with the impression that's he training all his horses to be Zenyatta. Specifically, telling workout jocks to wait, wait some more than pounce in the lane.
I'm not a trainer, but using a one-size-fits-all approach for all horses seems a bit short-sighted.
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