2019 Pegasus World Cup

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Tessablue
Posts: 3585
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Location: Boston

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:32 pm

Somnambulist wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:51 pm
People getting wasting at sporting events isn't exclusive to NYRA. I should probably even remove sport events. Casual alcoholism is rampant. Although I read some article a few months ago about how much whiskey they drank in the 1880s... I think it came out to about 3 750ml bottles of Jack a week per person. We're slacking, I guess. At least they haven't opened up the infield.

The middle class being pushed out of events is a good topic that is never brought up. The dichotomy between any of these tracks on a big day vs. a regular one almost makes the increase in price feel offensive. I'm still waiting for NYRA to summon me for their focus groups on the Belmont reno! But really I don't really mind giving NYRA my money for the Belmont because they moved so many stakes onto that card. While I might have gone to Belmont 3-4 times during the Spring meet the money probably evens out for the Belmont alone. But, I live local and don't need to pay for a hotel.

Is this new, though? I remember reading Seabiscuit (15 years ago lol) and it routinely being mentioned how he was filling the cheap seats, which really weren't in great viewing areas. Hopefully I'm not confusing what actually was written in the book with what was said in the movie.
Certainly not the only example, just the one I'm most familiar with. I think it was in 2017 that I paid something like $100 per seat, plus Ticketmaster fees, plus $40 parking (which used to be included with the tickets), only to sit behind a giant concert tent that almost completely blocked my view of the track. It has certainly felt in the past few years like racing fans are getting priced out in favor of young people who just want to drink, and who have become the main focus of the sales and marketing- similar, I would imagine, to how the other two TC legs feel. I love NY racing and I want them to succeed financially, but I also want to actually feel welcomed at the event. The magnificent card feels like the only real concession to long-term racing fans, but personally I'm starting to wonder if that will be enough to keep me going. It's a lot of money and a lot of time to spend the day getting knocked around by dead-drunk kids while repeatedly chasing them away from our seats.

But racing has always been sustained by a paradox- maintained by the ultra-rich on one end and the working class on the other. And stratification is occurring across virtually every aspect of American life, not just sports. But between the above issues and the insulting treatment by Justify's connections (and, by extension, large portions of the racing media), 2018 didn't always feel like a particularly welcoming year to racing fans.
thinair
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:05 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:32 pm
…..the insulting treatment by Justify's connections (and, by extension, large portions of the racing media), 2018 didn't always feel like a particularly welcoming year to racing fans.

Just curious, what "insulting treatment" are you referring to, by either the connections or the media?
Tessablue
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 pm

thinair wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:05 pm
Tessablue wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:32 pm
…..the insulting treatment by Justify's connections (and, by extension, large portions of the racing media), 2018 didn't always feel like a particularly welcoming year to racing fans.

Just curious, what "insulting treatment" are you referring to, by either the connections or the media?
The endless meandering before his retirement, the insistence that they really did want to keep racing him but just couldn't, the weird multi-month denial of the stud deal, the immediate turnaround on advertising tickets to visit him at stud. And subsequently, the dismissive thinkpieces from some sectors about how fans should just be grateful for... something that was never fully articulated.

I think Justify brought a lot of things to the forefront that need to be discussed eventually- even things that don't really involve fans at all, like conflict of interest issues in mega partnerships (has Repole partnered up with Winstar since, I wonder?). They are the sort of conversations that are unpleasant, but generally don't happen once the moment has passed. It certainly felt like this year was a squandered chance to have some of these discussions, but instead it was smothered with some cursory theater and handwringing about how the importance of the TC must be preserved at all costs. For me, at least, it was often very frustrating to witness.

And because it's a lot of griping, I do want to make it clear that I really admire what the Belmont card has become. It's already better than the BC in some years, and it's going to be even better this year. It just produces a complex set of emotions when I consider whether my presence and the presence of people like me is something that will continue to provide the event with its best opportunity to move forward and thrive.
thinair
Posts: 1709
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:05 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 pm

The endless meandering before his retirement, the insistence that they really did want to keep racing him but just couldn't, the weird multi-month denial of the stud deal, the immediate turnaround on advertising tickets to visit him at stud. And subsequently, the dismissive thinkpieces from some sectors about how fans should just be grateful for... something that was never fully articulated.

I think Justify brought a lot of things to the forefront that need to be discussed eventually- even things that don't really involve fans at all, like conflict of interest issues in mega partnerships (has Repole partnered up with Winstar since, I wonder?). They are the sort of conversations that are unpleasant, but generally don't happen once the moment has passed. It certainly felt like this year was a squandered chance to have some of these discussions, but instead it was smothered with some cursory theater and handwringing about how the importance of the TC must be preserved at all costs. For me, at least, it was often very frustrating to witness.

And because it's a lot of griping, I do want to make it clear that I really admire what the Belmont card has become. It's already better than the BC in some years, and it's going to be even better this year. It just produces a complex set of emotions when I consider whether my presence and the presence of people like me is something that will continue to provide the event with its best opportunity to move forward and thrive.
On your Belmont Day thoughts, here and from the earlier post....I think they are very interesting and I'll share them.

I hear what you are saying, though I don't remember anyone writing about how fans should be grateful, but you probably read more than me, so I wouldn't be surprised if some people wrote that. Frankly, there are VERY few writers left that I am interested in. As far as the retirement stuff, it's my understanding that he couldn't have realistically come back this year, but I understand people being skeptical. I guess I never really cared enough to give it a lot of thought.

I didn't get caught up in the partnership stuff, but it did seem to bother a lot of people, though generally people seem overly intrigued by imagined conspiracy theories. At least now we can safely say Audible wasn't winning the Belmont:-)

I appreciate the response.
Somnambulist
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 pm

Tessablue wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 pm
The endless meandering before his retirement, the insistence that they really did want to keep racing him but just couldn't, the weird multi-month denial of the stud deal, the immediate turnaround on advertising tickets to visit him at stud. And subsequently, the dismissive thinkpieces from some sectors about how fans should just be grateful for... something that was never fully articulated.
Let us be grateful for being the 99% and for not appreciating someone pulling the wool over our eyes! It is fine wool!

It's for this reason alone I hope the voters are as petty as I am and Accelerate is given HOTY. If for no other reason than the "representative democracy" that racing journalism is will have a field day with it. I am really looking forward to that hand-wringing.
"Life's no piece of cake, mind you, but the recipe's my own to fool with."
tachyon
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Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:02 am

Northport wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:06 pm
tachyon wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:38 pm
Um.. I had hoped Yoshida would race on on the dirt to increase his future stud value.

I will cheer for him anyway and now hope he will beat Aerolithe and the others.
Good luck to him!
If Yoshida runs in the turf Pegasus, he is almost guaranteed to pick up a better cheque than he would in the dirt Pegasus. I wouldn't rule him out of top dirt contests in 2019 just yet.

Full field (if McKinzie does take the only vacant slot) + WinStar already represented by Audible (though his comeback race wasn't very encouraging) in the dirt Pegasus + very shallow field shaping up in the turf version = Yoshida is back on the lawn.

I wonder if Pegasus had reps in Europe, Japan, Australia, etc. the way Royal Ascot and the Spring Carnival does, pitching their races/meets to foreign trainers and owners and making deals to fill the gate with some high quality (though maybe not first string) horses... at this point is seems like a no... or maybe Aerolithe's connections were the only takers.
If I'm not mistaken, Aerolithe is going to be the first Japanese-trained horse in history to race at Gulfstream Park.
Hopefully Aerolithe and her connections will love the track and the atmosphere in Florida and tell their colleagues what it is like when they come back home. ;)

Dubai World Cup Day has been the most attractive meeting for the Japanese over the years.
But there will be more Japanese connections who consider the Pegasus in the coming years, especially if the organizer bears travel & accomodation expenses as Dubai does.
There's no G1 race in January in Japan.
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Starine
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Location: South Carolina

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:30 pm

Pegasus: Patternrecognition Cruises Five Furlongs At Palm Meadows
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/pega ... m-meadows/

Pegasus: Accelerate Puts In ‘Good Long-Distance Work’ Over Seven Furlongs
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/pega ... -furlongs/

Joe Hirsch Winner Channel Maker Joins Cast For Pegasus World Cup Turf
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/pega ... -cup-turf/
MR-W
Posts: 206
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Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:51 pm

thinair wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:33 am
stark wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:31 am
Hey Little Andy,
Fuck you and all your troll comments.

Nuff said.
I think the "you can dish it out but you can't take it" line fits here.
Don't insult yourself and try to justify what Stark had the balls to call you out on. We all know what a troll is and Stark isn't one of them. If you can't play and get along you should just keep quiet on the keyboard. Continuing to call people trolls and going to insults is bullshit. Your opinions and $2.25 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. No one and I mean no one is overly important here. We're all race fans who like to get together and share the sport that we all love. Try to be respectful.
thinair
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Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:22 pm

MR-W wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:51 pm
thinair wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:33 am
stark wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:31 am
Hey Little Andy,
Fuck you and all your troll comments.

Nuff said.
I think the "you can dish it out but you can't take it" line fits here.
Don't insult yourself and try to justify what Stark had the balls to call you out on. We all know what a troll is and Stark isn't one of them. If you can't play and get along you should just keep quiet on the keyboard. Continuing to call people trolls and going to insults is bullshit. Your opinions and $2.25 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. No one and I mean no one is overly important here. We're all race fans who like to get together and share the sport that we all love. Try to be respectful.

One day I hope to be as respectful as you.

Stark has been trolling me on this board for years. That's a fact.

The proof that your post is absurd is that you seemed to have no problem with how Stark behaved in the post you quoted. That speaks volumes. I guess you considered that respectful.
stark
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Location: SoCal

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:37 pm

As the olde saying goes....with all due respect.....that response above was years in the making and not representative of my normal behavior here.

If you feel picked upon, the only reason I can think of is your constant negativity towards the sport we all love.

Your negative criticisms of jockey's efforts are legendary.
Your negative criticisms of the Pegasus are well noted.
Your negative criticisms of the trackman's maintenance work are often without reason.

When's the last time you tried to put a positive spin on anything besides one of your touted selections?

If you were to own a car, my guess would be a BMW, bitch moan whine.

Perhaps the real problem is that you're the only virgin amongst us here and need to take the edge off a little.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
thinair
Posts: 1709
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:46 pm

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:39 pm

stark wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:37 pm
As the olde saying goes....with all due respect.....that response above was years in the making and not representative of my normal behavior here.

If you feel picked upon, the only reason I can think of is your constant negativity towards the sport we all love.

Your negative criticisms of jockey's efforts are legendary.
Your negative criticisms of the Pegasus are well noted.
Your negative criticisms of the trackman's maintenance work are often without reason.

When's the last time you tried to put a positive spin on anything besides one of your touted selections?

If you were to own a car, my guess would be a BMW, bitch moan whine.

Perhaps the real problem is that you're the only virgin amongst us here and need to take the edge off a little.

More respect.

I gotta work on showing more respect here.
stark
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Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:42 pm

thinair wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:39 pm
I gotta work on showing more respect here.
Only if you want it in return.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
WarBiscuit
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Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:17 pm

I'm going to go out on a limb and pitch an idea here, that we go back to discussing the 2019 Pegasus World Cup - keeping in mind that we do not always agree with the thoughts of other posters. Personally, I respect both stark and thinair, and am very appreciative of their thoughts, ideas and contributions here. I have learned much from both and for the most part, always look forward to their posts. I don't think too many here find it particularly pleasant to read through these occasional
diversions and would much rather hear some new thoughts about racing - and particularly the Pegasus. Just my probably worthless 2 cents.

WarBiscuit
"One horse-laugh is worth ten thousand syllogisms. It is not only more effective; it is also vastly more intelligent." H.L. Mencken
stark
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Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:36 pm

Well said, thanks
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
stark
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Location: SoCal

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:59 pm

MGISW McKinzie (Street Sense) is unlikely to head to Gulfstream for the Jan. 26 GI Pegasus World Cup. Trainer Bob Baffert told the TDN Saturday that it is “very doubtful” that his horse will go in the $9 million race.

more at....
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/mc ... p4.twitter
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Curtis
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Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:29 pm

stark wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:59 pm
MGISW McKinzie (Street Sense) is unlikely to head to Gulfstream for the Jan. 26 GI Pegasus World Cup. Trainer Bob Baffert told the TDN Saturday that it is “very doubtful” that his horse will go in the $9 million race.

more at....
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/mc ... p4.twitter
The Great White One is doing exactly as I would do, which probably means he should do something else entirely.😉
stark
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Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:16 pm

Curtis wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:29 pm
The Great White One is doing exactly as I would do, which probably means he should do something else entirely.😉
The great trainers of our time, Lukas and Pletcher to name a couple, seem to take more chances, throw 'em to the wolves, enter no-hopers, whatever you want to call it, but I just don't seem to identify that trait with Mr. Baffert. If they ain't ready, he does whats in the best interest of the horse day in and day out.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
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Curtis
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Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:29 pm

stark wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:16 pm
Curtis wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:29 pm
The Great White One is doing exactly as I would do, which probably means he should do something else entirely.😉
The great trainers of our time, Lukas and Pletcher to name a couple, seem to take more chances, throw 'em to the wolves, enter no-hopers, whatever you want to call it, but I just don't seem to identify that trait with Mr. Baffert. If they ain't ready, he does whats in the best interest of the horse day in and day out.
There are a whole bunch of names (same person as well as rhetoric) who lie in the weeds over at the Blood Horse that would take issue with that. Using Baffert as a piñata is a sport over there. Of course there is also someone else over there using multiple names who staunchly defends his every move. The place is a psychiatrists dream.
stark
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Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:56 pm

Curtis wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:29 pm

There are a whole bunch of names (same person as well as rhetoric) who lie in the weeds over at the Blood Horse that would take issue with that. Using Baffert as a piñata is a sport over there. Of course there is also someone else over there using multiple names who staunchly defends his every move. The place is a psychiatrists dream.
Add the legendary AOB to my list (with Lukas/Pletcher) for his irresponsible American dirt entries and some of those posters may join us over here just to take a swing.
I've found it easier to tear up tickets at 8/1 instead of 8/5.
thinair
Posts: 1709
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:46 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:14 pm

stark wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:56 pm
Curtis wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:29 pm

There are a whole bunch of names (same person as well as rhetoric) who lie in the weeds over at the Blood Horse that would take issue with that. Using Baffert as a piñata is a sport over there. Of course there is also someone else over there using multiple names who staunchly defends his every move. The place is a psychiatrists dream.
Add the legendary AOB to my list (with Lukas/Pletcher) for his irresponsible American dirt entries and some of those posters may join us over here just to take a swing.
I don't think that's fair. The Coolmore owners are making those calls, as they are essentially freerolls to create stallion value in America for dir horses. It sure worked well for Giants Causeway ( and even gave Johanessburg a shot ). Tough to blame O'Brien for that,

Don't get me wrong, I bet against a LOT of the horses he sends here, but it's not because he's a bad trainer. They come over here taking shots with horses not good enough to win over there, at least during the year, for the most part. I don't blame that on the trainer however.
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