Photos/News about Broodmares

lurkey mclurker
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Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:36 pm

Flanders wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:33 pm
lurkey mclurker wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:20 pm
That is just... a REALLY inelegant, unfortunate name. :roll:
Its the name of a National Park in Australia. It doesn't sound bad with proper pronunciation.
That's a relief! (assuming the race callers/commentators do say it properly :mrgreen: )
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Mylute
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Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:48 pm

A lot of you are probably already aware of this but for those who aren't I learned today that thoroughbreds seem to conceive twins more often than other breeds. Around 20% of ovulations in TB mares result in twins. There's no explanation as of yet.

Also, mares who conceive twins are more likely to be repeat offenders. So Ms. Lyon, keep an eye on Songbird!
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Starine
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Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:59 pm

Mylute wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:48 pm
A lot of you are probably already aware of this but for those who aren't I learned today that thoroughbreds seem to conceive twins more often than other breeds. Around 20% of ovulations in TB mares result in twins. There's no explanation as of yet.

Also, mares who conceive twins are more likely to be repeat offenders. So Ms. Lyon, keep an eye on Songbird!
I had no idea. Thanks for sharing; that's very interesting indeed.
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Starine
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Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:01 pm

Flanders wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:33 pm
lurkey mclurker wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:20 pm
That is just... a REALLY inelegant, unfortunate name. :roll:
Its the name of a National Park in Australia. It doesn't sound bad with proper pronunciation.
Is it something like, KAH-KADU? Anyway, I Googled it and the park looked stunning in all of the photos I saw.
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Flanders
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:19 am

Starine wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:01 pm
Flanders wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:33 pm
lurkey mclurker wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:20 pm
That is just... a REALLY inelegant, unfortunate name. :roll:
Its the name of a National Park in Australia. It doesn't sound bad with proper pronunciation.
Is it something like, KAH-KADU? Anyway, I Googled it and the park looked stunning in all of the photos I saw.
This is kind of weird but someone put a pronunciation video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boqxEbkNM_4
vfan
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:29 pm

Mylute wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:48 pm
A lot of you are probably already aware of this but for those who aren't I learned today that thoroughbreds seem to conceive twins more often than other breeds. Around 20% of ovulations in TB mares result in twins. There's no explanation as of yet.

Also, mares who conceive twins are more likely to be repeat offenders. So Ms. Lyon, keep an eye on Songbird!
I'd love to know if horses end up with the same "about 4x" increase in chance that humans do of having another set of twins.

And OMG, if the Jockey Club rules allowed putting an embryo back into the original dam,, I could so see a secondary market for the extra embryo in other breeds where donor eggs are allowed. Heck, we'd probably have that secondary market for extra embryos today if they could reliably flush out just one embryo from a thoroughbred mare and not risk losing the other.

Urban Sea and Secretariat carried the "twin gene"! JUST KIDDING ... but given how DNA research is finding all sorts of gene-based regulatory mechanisms for proteins and hormones, and multiple egg production is often a byproduct of specific hormonal surges, there's almost certainly a genetic factor or interplay of multiple genes that leads to increased chances of multiple eggs being produced. If nothing else, the fact that certain breeds of sheep and goats are known to produce primarily twins (or in some other cases, primarily singles), points to a strong genetic influence.

My explanation for the increase in thoroughbreds is that the genetic factor associated with increased chances of multiple ovulations has drastically increased its frequency because it's no longer "naturally" restricted. It historically restricted its own spread by killing many of the twin pregnancies that get produced, and injuring or killing the mares who had a twin pregnancy.

Thanks to ultrasounds and research into timing and new techniques, twin conceptions can be detected early, pinched, and you end up with a healthy single foal and healthy dam, both passing on the genes that lead to the multiple ovulation in the first place. Those foals aren't dying any more, and their dams aren't being pensioned early because of the higher risk of another twin pregnancy. Even though it's just one foal coming out of the twin pregnancy, that foal carries the genetic legacy for higher rates of twinning.

There are other factors with the multiple ovulations as well, and they're seen in other mammals, too. Age is one, human women over 35 have much higher chance of multiple ovulations and with horses IIRC it starts in their mid to late teens. That's partially mitigated by how an overall lower conception and pregnancy success, which keeps the actual rate of twin conceptions & twin preganncies lower. We are managing the reproduction of our thoroughbreds well into their late teens and twenties, keeping them healthy and doing what can be done to increase successful pregnancies in spite of being the horse equivalent of middle-aged, so those mares are being bred during periods of their lives when they're more likely to produce the extra eggs.

Also, one area that's been researched in humans with some conflicting results is increased twin conception after having stopped hormonal birth control methods. The thinking there is that the body responds to the removal of hormonal suppression with a hormonal spike, triggering extra eggs. Given how often fillies and mares are on treatments to suppress or manage/regulate their heat cycles, whether it be for racing or to time things for breeding, it's not an unreasonable theory - just needs some research to see if it it's so.

Take all the above and then factor in how frequently thoroughbreds are linebred, the shrinking of the gene pool, the impact one prominent sire (and by extension, his dam) can have down the road -
Trying to remember figures from when I researched this a whiles back, IIRC the more managed a breed's reproduction and subsequent removal of risk/downside from a twin conception, the higher the incidence of multiple egg ovulations. The native UK pony breeds have something like less than 1% naturally occurring multiple-egg ovulations. Warmbloods have percentages that tightly track the frequency of thoroughbreds being used for outcrossing.

I'd love to get some long-term historical data and do a rigorous analysis of it. We'd need at the minimum decades of veterinary records for establishing frequencies before the advent of technologies that let us detect and manage twin conceptions.
CorridorZ75
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:00 pm

Based on the way they usually collect embryos at this time, it would be hard to just get the "extra" one and not the other.
vfan
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Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:26 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:00 pm
Based on the way they usually collect embryos at this time, it would be hard to just get the "extra" one and not the other.
Yeah, that's a better way of phrasing for why we don't already see a market for "extra" twin embryos. Since they can't flush just one out, and the JC won't allow flushing both and then putting one back.

"No Putbacks!" :lol:

Hmm, might be easier flushing just one when it's a situation where eggs have moved into different horns but you're still in the safe-to-pinch-off window.
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Summer Bird
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Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:13 pm

Per Brandywine’s FB, Champagne Glow was humanely euthanized at the age of 31. She was the dam of Champagne d’Oro and Ruler On Ice
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Starine
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Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:59 pm

Summer Bird wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:13 pm
Per Brandywine’s FB, Champagne Glow was humanely euthanized at the age of 31. She was the dam of Champagne d’Oro and Ruler On Ice
Dam of Ruler On Ice, Champagne d'Oro Dies at 31
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... dies-at-31
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Mylute
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Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:31 pm

That photo of her is beautiful.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Mylute
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Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:21 pm

Starine wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:22 pm
Did they announce who Lull is being bred to?
Lull is i/f to Quality Road.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Starine
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Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:54 pm

Mylute wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:21 pm
Starine wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:22 pm
Did they announce who Lull is being bred to?
Lull is i/f to Quality Road.
Thanks.
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ThreeMustangs
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Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:17 pm

Nice update on Beholder w/photos of her foals:

https://look.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ ... dium=email
lurkey mclurker
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Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:41 pm

ThreeMustangs wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:17 pm
Nice update on Beholder w/photos of her foals:

https://look.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ ... dium=email
Wow wow wow I love the Curlin filly. Wow.
KatieK101
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Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 pm

ThreeMustangs wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:17 pm
Nice update on Beholder w/photos of her foals:

https://look.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ ... dium=email
It sounds like Spendthrift is trying to collect the Leslie’s Lady family. They have Into Mischief and Beholder, and are planning to keep her filly for their broodmare band eventually; I definitely expect them to stand Q B One when the time comes.

They got outbid on Mendelssohn and the American Pharoah filly but were right there. I’m very interested to see if they keep the War Front foal.
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Mylute
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Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:05 pm

My favorite mare Morticia has been retired. The way I read the article it sounds like Humphrey is going to keep her with her mom.

I just did a nick and while the cross has never been tried, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a mating with Kitten's Joy. There's only minimal inbreeding to Mr. Prospector in the fifth generation, and the closest tried crosses have yielded a G1 winner in Chile.
"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
~ Robin Williams 1951 - 2̶0̶1̶4̶ ∞
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Kurenai
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Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:45 pm

Starine wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:01 pm
Flanders wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:33 pm
lurkey mclurker wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:20 pm
That is just... a REALLY inelegant, unfortunate name. :roll:
Its the name of a National Park in Australia. It doesn't sound bad with proper pronunciation.
Is it something like, KAH-KADU? Anyway, I Googled it and the park looked stunning in all of the photos I saw.
Kakadu is also the german word for cockatoo :D
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